I've played him countless times in multiplayer matchups, and have won many games. Having a few looters (or instant speed discard in general) in the deck makes it so your plans aren't quite as obvious, and you can avoid getting shut down too quickly. Work on getting Feldon protected / doubled in some way with Rings / Bracers etc. Then depending on how big the heat is, you can easily put out 4 myr battlespheres in one turn (two on their endstep, two on yours). I also include a few mana doublers / ashnod's altar for quick Devil's Play kills.
There are lots of ways to win, just be strategic about how open you are with your information.
I just recently found out Starke doesn't work the way you might think he does. Because you control the sacrifice trigger, Starke will never be sacc'd and your opponent will get the token. If you don't mind that, then go for it. Just something to consider (this is also relevant for Humble Defector, if you're considering him).
I like this list- I have a similar one... maybe a little more Goblin heavy. No Kiki Jiki? He's more or less Feldon #2, and with Rings out, they both just get totally out of control. I've cast Kiki, activated Feldon and Kiki twice each to bring out 4 myr battlespheres at end step, then 4 more on my turn. I know he draws a lot of hate, but he moves so fast, you usually get what you need out of him.
How useful has Squee been for you? I have a copy, but am not running him... hadn't really considered that he'd be good discard fodder when needed.
The main card I'd throw out would be Feast on the Fallen from m15. Triggers every upkeep, and makes sure you don't have that terrible "hope no one wraths while my guys are vulnerable" moment. I'm also testing the Chasm Skulker. He gains counters quickly, can beat when needs be, and leaves behind more tokens to grow with dethrone. What's not to love?
I had her in at one point, but she honestly didn't do anything as far as I could tell. By the time by my creatures had counters, they were already attacking. I'd love for her to be relevant since she's an awesome card, but just doesn't seem to be up to snuff :/
I also wonder about Generator Servant. He's in my maybe list, but really doesn't seem strong enough to be worth it. I've even cut Treasonous Ogre to make room for more goodness. I have my list here, if interested http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/marchesa-red-rover-red-rover/ Curious what folks think about it.
I'll be getting a sneak attack soon. Pretty pumped to see how powerful it is.
At a minimum, I would probably drop metamorph for something a bit more synergistic. Also this deck seems like it wants library manipulation, so consider adding Top, Scroll Rack and other scrying spells.
+ suggestions:
- Past in Flames (You've got a healthy amount of cheap instants and sorceries, why not reuse them all at once?)
- Turnabout (big ol mana explosion and even better when x 2!)
- Quicken (let's you surprise one of your powerful sorceries, and adds to your spell count).
- Either Trinket Mage or Tezzeret the Seeker. With so many strong artifacts you'll need em
I thought about Cyclonic Rift, and while it's super powerful... I'm actually not sure how great it is here. I'm trying to limit how many huge CMC spells I have, and copying it overloaded doesn't actually do anything...
Yeah the land base is more or less a placeholder right now. Trying to work out whether or not a deck like this can survive / win with the creatures to spells ratio. I hate it when you think a deck is going to be good... then just doesn't really do much during a game. It's hard to tell if you just drew poorly, or if the deck makeup is just wrong.
So I've been interested in trying out a "spell slinging" edh deck for a while, and I happen to like Izzet a lot (it was actually a great guild to draft in RTR, despite what most people might tell you.) That said, I'd like to make a more "toolbox" style deck with him, rather than just relying on a big storm count + I win.
For reference, one of my favorite decks has Ghave at the helm, and it boasts 0 infinite combos, but all the cards in the deck synergize well together.
So, I've been putting together a deck list for Melek that:
1. Doesn't require him to win.
2. Uses a decent amount of creatures that benefit from instants or sorceries.
3. Benefits greatly by Melek's abilities.
Here's the deck as I see it... I haven't been able to test it at all yet, but am just interested to get general feedback from those that have played this archetype.
Man pulling out the ghast/blossom/skeleton stuff eh? I'm going to play around with that stuff before I start killing it. Was it just not powerful enough? Cloudgoat seems really good, esp with the 1W enchantment that spits out kithkin when you attack.
I've been considering viscera seer strongly. A free sac outlet seems fairly important, esp when you can't get VK onto the field.
I'm in the process of building out and tweaking this deck myself (without infi combos, if possible). Very interested to see what you'll be including from GTC. To me, the only extort card that seems to make the cut is crypt ghast. And what a house he'll be.
I also like the big exile card, and of course Vizkopa Guildmage. Can't wait to test them out!
That's interesting, and I could see that getting out of hand. Without Seedborn Muse though... let's say you have 8 mana and 4 green creatures in play. You'd spend your turn creating 1 saproling, tapping down 4 creatures and one mana. You could then do it once more by tapping down 4 lands and 1 creature (your newly made saproling). You get two saprolings, but aren't there better things to do with your turn than that?
Just seems really narrow to me, but so many people swear by it, so I feel like I'm missing something.
Anyways not trying to get OT, but this is a debate at least in the vein of what the OP is asking.
So I have a Ghave deck that I love to play. It's free of infinite combos, and really focuses on both token swarm, and token ability abuse (aura shards, attrition, grave pact, etc.)
However, I don't run Sprout Swarm, and have never really even considered it. To me it just seems way too slow... can someone set me straight on this? I'd love to hear a situation where it just turned the game around for you.
@Aranthar- I would recommend avoiding cards that give a one-time small amount of tokens (fists of ironwood jumps out from your original list), as they really don't do enough.
Personally, I have a rafiq deck that revolves around cheap threats that do something when they hit- creatures in the vein of trygon predator, cold eyed selkie, avenging druid, cephalid constable.
You'd be surprised how much damage a single augury adept can do with rafiq out, and a piece of equipment. Plus you're drawing 2 cards and likely gaining ~ 6 life.
The new cipher ability only adds to that (Cast the 6 cc blue clone spell, cipher onto a guy, then double strike for an additional two copies). This style i think, ensures your deck always has something to do, and doesn't really mind board wipes.
At the very least, you might consider faith's reward or twilight angel.
There are lots of ways to win, just be strategic about how open you are with your information.
How useful has Squee been for you? I have a copy, but am not running him... hadn't really considered that he'd be good discard fodder when needed.
I had her in at one point, but she honestly didn't do anything as far as I could tell. By the time by my creatures had counters, they were already attacking. I'd love for her to be relevant since she's an awesome card, but just doesn't seem to be up to snuff :/
I'll be getting a sneak attack soon. Pretty pumped to see how powerful it is.
At a minimum, I would probably drop metamorph for something a bit more synergistic. Also this deck seems like it wants library manipulation, so consider adding Top, Scroll Rack and other scrying spells.
+ suggestions:
- Past in Flames (You've got a healthy amount of cheap instants and sorceries, why not reuse them all at once?)
- Turnabout (big ol mana explosion and even better when x 2!)
- Quicken (let's you surprise one of your powerful sorceries, and adds to your spell count).
- Either Trinket Mage or Tezzeret the Seeker. With so many strong artifacts you'll need em
Let me know how it turns out!
I thought about Cyclonic Rift, and while it's super powerful... I'm actually not sure how great it is here. I'm trying to limit how many huge CMC spells I have, and copying it overloaded doesn't actually do anything...
Yeah the land base is more or less a placeholder right now. Trying to work out whether or not a deck like this can survive / win with the creatures to spells ratio. I hate it when you think a deck is going to be good... then just doesn't really do much during a game. It's hard to tell if you just drew poorly, or if the deck makeup is just wrong.
For reference, one of my favorite decks has Ghave at the helm, and it boasts 0 infinite combos, but all the cards in the deck synergize well together.
So, I've been putting together a deck list for Melek that:
1. Doesn't require him to win.
2. Uses a decent amount of creatures that benefit from instants or sorceries.
3. Benefits greatly by Melek's abilities.
Here's the deck as I see it... I haven't been able to test it at all yet, but am just interested to get general feedback from those that have played this archetype.
1x Archaeomancer
1x Augur of Bolas
1x Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1x Charmbreaker Devils
1x Deranged Assistant
1x Echo Mage
1x Galvanoth
1x Goblin Electromancer
1x Guttersnipe
1x Hypersonic Dragon
1x Izzet Chronarch
1x Kiln Fiend
1x Mercurial Chemister
1x Melek
1x Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
1x Nivix Guildmage
1x Nucklavee
1x Surrakar Spellblade
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1x Tibor and Lumia
1x Trinket Mage
Enchantments
1x Arcane Melee
1x Eyes of the Watcher
1x Spellweaver Volute
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Coalition Relic
1x Crystal Ball
1x Crystal Shard
1x Izzet Signet
1x Leering Emblem
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Ruby Medallion
1x Runechanter's Pike
1x Sapphire Medallion
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Sphinx Bone Wand
PW:
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorceries / Instants
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Brainstorm
1x Bribery
1x Cackling Counterpart
1x Capsize
1x Comet Storm
1x Counterspell
1x Devil's Play
1x Dissipate
1x Epic Experiment
1x Fabricate
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Increasing Vengeance
1x Into the Core
1x Izzet Charm
1x Mana Geyser
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Mystic Retrieval
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Past in Flames
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Prophetic Bolt
1x Repulse
1x Rewind
1x Serum Visions
1x Time Warp
1x Turnabout
1x Windfall
16x Mountain
17x Island
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
I've been considering viscera seer strongly. A free sac outlet seems fairly important, esp when you can't get VK onto the field.
I also like the big exile card, and of course Vizkopa Guildmage. Can't wait to test them out!
That's interesting, and I could see that getting out of hand. Without Seedborn Muse though... let's say you have 8 mana and 4 green creatures in play. You'd spend your turn creating 1 saproling, tapping down 4 creatures and one mana. You could then do it once more by tapping down 4 lands and 1 creature (your newly made saproling). You get two saprolings, but aren't there better things to do with your turn than that?
Just seems really narrow to me, but so many people swear by it, so I feel like I'm missing something.
Anyways not trying to get OT, but this is a debate at least in the vein of what the OP is asking.
However, I don't run Sprout Swarm, and have never really even considered it. To me it just seems way too slow... can someone set me straight on this? I'd love to hear a situation where it just turned the game around for you.
@Aranthar- I would recommend avoiding cards that give a one-time small amount of tokens (fists of ironwood jumps out from your original list), as they really don't do enough.
You'd be surprised how much damage a single augury adept can do with rafiq out, and a piece of equipment. Plus you're drawing 2 cards and likely gaining ~ 6 life.
The new cipher ability only adds to that (Cast the 6 cc blue clone spell, cipher onto a guy, then double strike for an additional two copies). This style i think, ensures your deck always has something to do, and doesn't really mind board wipes.
At the very least, you might consider faith's reward or twilight angel.