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  • posted a message on Turn 1 Combo using Narset
    Thanks for coming up with the idea! I really want to do some modeling of this deck that doesn't involve Monte Carlo simulation :/


    Me too. I just don't know a way to make a Goryo's Vengeance deck play interactively. If we could somehow find enough "hits" that also function as castable control spells, that would be one way to set up the combo without ignoring the other side of the board. It's just hard to find cards that are independantly good cards and also back-breaking hits off of Narset.

    Cards with alternative costs could be useful here as set up for the combo, but they're still not hits. Sunscour, Commandeer, Snapback, Lightning Axe, and Treasure Cruise all come to mind, but I feel like Narset would become useless with a package like that. Keep in mind, most of these cards can exile or discard Narset to set the combo up, but once Narset hits, she just sucks. With all the time I've spent on gatherer over this deck, I can pretty safely say that there are no Relentless Assault effects that have control modes or draw modes. Also, there are no draw spells that turn themselves into independant combo engines with Narset that are castable without her. Treasure Cruise requires another combo in play for it to get you through your whole deck, etc.

    The key to making the deck interactive is in what selection you use for your "hits" package. You can't have a control/midrange deck half-full of Relentless Assaults and removal doesn't keep Narset going.

    One thing we used to run in an early version was Thoughtseize, allowing us to discard Narset or remove a counterspell. That quickly came out, but it may be a starting point. Removal that sets up the combo could replace parts of the engine, making the deck more resiliant, if a bit slower.

    I could see a curve like:
    t1: Spoils for Narset
    t2: Discard Narset to Lightning Axe that, exile Simian Spirit Guide, Goryo's Vengeance

    or:
    t1: Spoils for Narset
    t2: Thoughtseize myself, exile simian, Goryo's for the kill

    Maybe even:
    t1: Land, Mox Opal, Mishra's Bauble, Necrogen Spellbomb, exile Simian, combo off

    It's possible that we could put it into a madness engine that plays efficient red and black dudes off of discard effects, using Relentless Assaults to get extra attack steps with our normal Madness deck. We get to run cute stuff like Delerium Skeins, Gravecrawler, and Vengevine. If we get to four mana or two red cards, we just attack twice with graveyard dudes, and if we get Goryo's we go off.

    Anyway, I'd just like to see other iterations of the deck do some work. The core of the deck is Narset + attack steps. Please work on this. I'd love to see the deck somehow able to sport removal or dudes and still stay explosive, even if the early kill becomes less common.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Turn 1 Combo using Narset
    Hey all, just to clarify, I am Gabriel Pancerzewski, my name on facebook was Gabriel John at the time, and my handle is Eubaba. My boys up at Mana-Fyx and I made the rough concept for the deck around the pool before Khans was released. We had a bad version of it in testing with "Narset" written in Sharpie on the backs of basics.

    Pull from Eternity/Exile engine probably came from an old friend of mine named Micah in DFW who wanted to use it to power out Nicol Bolas. This was back during Ravnica/Time Spiral standard, but we were talking about modern (I don't know what year that was). That deck never took off, but I guess it stuck in my head.

    Anyway, I wouldn't have posted any of this except it was about a half page worth of argument a minute ago.

    I've not been working on the deck anymore. I've put months into it. At this point, it's in the hands of Mr. Woo and the community. The only thing I have to say is this:
    there is a balance between making the combo happen and making Narset kill completely. If you're not getting her into play, you need to devote more cards to that. If she hits and pulls up nothing, devote more cards to that. I don't feel like I've found the balance yet. I want to say that Plunge into Darkness could be a part of it, but it's probably too expensive. We were running it as a one of so that we could sacrifice Emrakul to loop Emrakul for infinite turns and infinite life. It also lets us set up the combo as a controlled Spoils. It's just probably too expensive. Somebody test it and tell me what you think. I'm on the fence.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on UWR Draw-Go (Post Rotation)
    The point of Draw-Go is to play everything with flash or at instant speed. Give Surrak Dragonclaw a shot as a win-con. Your card advantage and removal should all be instants, have flash, or cost three or less. Keep in mind, costing three allows you to play it turn seven. Not turn three.
    I'm sorry for the lack of specific card choices. That's just the concept as I remember it. You never tap mana until they do. Good luck! I think you're probably right.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Turn 1 Combo using Narset
    Honestly, I'm for it. It would speed up the deck a full turn in quite a few situations. The only thing is that I need so many Relentless Assaults in this build that I don't have space. I think that kt is right. I should bomb the deck out and use the extra space for more consistency. This will put Simian Spirit Guide in the deck as a combo piece for Enter the Infinite, a red card for Fury of the Horde, and simply as the accelerator it can be.
    I'm going to take the advice that the two of you have given me just about card for card.

    While I have you here, jchampangneaux123456 brought up a good point about Reflecting Pool. Should it stay in, or is the fact that it screws up about one in fifteen hands for me a good enough reason to cut it?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Turn 1 Combo using Narset
    Thank you very much, kt. I'll be testing this and I'll post my final list as soon as possible. I'd like to keep the Brilliant Ultimatum in the deck to keep the percentage of hits higher. We can ride Brilliant Ultimatums to Fury of the Hordes to the Enter the Infinite. My only issue is that I'd like to see more red in the deck so I can trust Fury of the Horde a little more.

    Thank you so much for the feedback!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Turn 1 Combo using Narset
    I've posted the an article on how to play it here and an updated decklist here.



    Basically, we exile Narset using either Serum Powder, Gemstone Caverns, Spoils of the Vault, or Fury of the Horde. Then we use Pull from Eternity to put her into our graveyard. If we have a Gemstone Caverns, we can do this on the opponent's first upkeep.
    We can also simply discard her using Faithless Looting for a turn 2 combo attempt, or not play a land turn one to discard her naturally and try to combo turn 3.

    Once she's in the yard, we use Goryo's Vengeance to put her into play with haste. We may need to use Faithless Looting or Spoils of the Vault to get it. This will push us back in turns as well.

    Once she's in play with haste, we attack. This exiles the top four cards of our library and we can play them for free. We now need to hit one of the following cards: Relentless Assault, Fury of the Horde, Waves of Aggression, Savage Beating, or Brilliant Ultimatum.
    If we have two red cards in our hand and we hit a Spoils of the Vault, we can also Spoils for a Fury of the Horde.

    Attack again, do it again.

    That's the basic combo. If that won't get the job done for some reason, we should at some point be able to Pull from Eternity an Emrakul and Goryo's Vengeance him into play to attack repeatedly with both Nana and Emma. This will shuffle your graveyard back, so we have plenty of attacks left.

    IF THAT WON'T GET THE JOB DONE (hypothetically, Angel's Grace or something Foggy like that), we use Research to put a Hive Mind into our deck, deck ourselves with Narset, and make them cast a bunch of Spoils of the Vault. Use a second Emrakul from the board just to keep shuffling the deck back, and keep making them cast Spoils of the Vault until they lose one way or the other.

    Coming in from the sideboard, we can use Sunscour to exile Narset, while wiping any blocker problems from play. It's a more reliable turn 3 kill than the very unstable turn 1 kill we were just discussing.

    Other options for exiling or discarding Narset while controlling the board:


    Serum Powder never sees play because it's a dead card if it's in your hand, making your mulligans worse. For us, however, we want some of our cards exiled, so it just allows us to exile Narset for free before the game starts, and also see a ton of cards before the game even starts.

    I'd like some help developing this. It's not as reliable as I'd like, but it's surprisingly skill intensive, really fun to play, and blazing fast.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] This thread is for G/x Devotion decks
    After reading this forum and putting a little thought into it, I feel I need to point something out green devo. Black has both better set up cards and better goal cards and blue has better goal cards. We really need to try to figure out what our advantage is and make the best use of it.

    One option is to take the flexibility of the hydras and run with it. We need to accelerate as fast as the hand allows, drop a hydra turn 3 for whatever we can afford, and bash. The other colors don't have the flexibility to consistently drop a deadly threat turn 3. They have every other advantage, but they don't have that. This involves maindeck Mistcutter Hydras, Burning Trees, Elvish Mystics, Nykthosees, Voyaging Satyrs, etc.

    The other option is to splash for help. Prime Speaker Zegana seems good with hydras and big things, but I'm afraid it'll be too late in the aggro heavy format. Domri and Courser are great together, but then we're just building R/G monsters again. White gives us the cuteness that is Brimaz + Bow of Nylea, but that isn't green devotion. So we're down to black. We control the board and draw cards with black while building green devotion to blow the opponents out with huge threats. Here's a scratch list I might suggest trying (btw, this isn't budget):

    4 Elvish Mystic
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Springleaf Drum

    4 Voyaging Satyr
    4 Burning Tree Emissary
    4 Grisly Salvage

    4 Courser of Kruphix

    4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
    4 Mistcutter Hydra
    4 Vastwood Hydra
    2 Bow of Nylea

    4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    2 Golgari Guildgate
    10 Forest

    It's not perfect yet, but the interaction we're focusing on is between Jarad and Vastwood Hydra. Jarad "flings" Vastwood Hydra at the opponent's face, all the counters move over to some dork, and Jarad "flings" all that power a second time. This deck is likely to kill turn five, so is still a little bit too slow for the format, but it may just work with the right support.

    Anyway, food for thought. Happy building!

    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Deck] Modern Cheeri0s Reboot
    I'm very new to this thread, but I'd like to throw something at y'all. Gitaxian Probe does admittedly reduce your deck size, but it basically "masks" your mulligans. You can't look at your opening hand and know 100% what's going on. I'd prefer Noxious Revival because it's an actual card. It actually does something in saving Paladin, and recurring Retracts.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation
  • posted a message on [Primer] Nivmiseit-The Elemental Combo
    Fetch+Noxious makes the 4 a little bit easier to hit, but you still don't always get there. I'm gonna keep running Slithermuse, but I'll keep an eye on it's save-my-backside/crap-up-my-hand ratio. It may come out.
    I didn't realize the Mutagenic Growth+Tainted Strike+Kiln Fiend thing until you just said it. That's really relevant. I need to adjust for that.

    Anyway, here's my most recent list, so we have a clear picture of what I'm talking about:


    You're going to hate my sideboard. Let It Go
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Nivmiseit-The Elemental Combo
    Wow. That was passionate. Thanks for responding though. My main point is that using Flamekin Harbinger to fetch Slithermuse allows us to run one card that gives us five possible topdecks to save our backsides in a grindy-type game. I'll defend that one.

    I think Noxious Revival is actually useful for making the one-land hands keepable if that one land is a fetch, so I chose it over Mutagenic Growth because, as far as Nivmagus is concerned, they may as well be the same spell.
    Manamorphose was better back when I was Kiln Fiending more often. I love it with Erayo, but I think you're right. It needs to be Surgical or Thoughtseize or something.

    All in all, thanks for the feedback. If I'm doing the Erayo thing, I need to commit to Niv Magus and cut the Kiln Fiends way back like the guy with the scary picture said.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Nivmiseit-The Elemental Combo
    -1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
    +1 Slithermuse
    You can fetch it up and reload your hand, then noxious revival it back to the top. One Slithermuse is actually pretty amazing for this deck's long game.
    I chose to cut the Erayo because seeing two of him in my opener is an auto-mull. You don't want to see doubles of Erayo at all.
    The other thing I did was add a Jagged Poppet to work people into the Erayo/daily discard lock. I used to use Sword of Feast and Famine for it, but you can use hypnotic specters, Liliana or the Veil, or anything else that can make an opponent discard every turn. It basically goes like this:
    You have one card in your hand. You either cast it into Erayo, or I make you discard it.
    Jagged Poppet can also bring their hand down to nothing, which is what puts them in the lock.
    The Jagged Poppet is really debatable (I honestly think Erayo should come out too), but Slithermuse as a one of is amazing in this deck.
    What do y'all think of Manamorphose? It doesn't work with Niv, but it's great with Kiln Fiend, Erayo, and Ground Rift.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Restore Balance
    I think that we need some early removal. What do y'all think of this?


    Keep in mind, you can cast Boom on their land and your fetchland, then fetch in response, canceling that half of the effect, but the spell resolves because it still has one legal target. Good times, right?
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Modern Ninjas
    I think one thing we should be doing is running Birds. It doubles as mana acceleration and an enabler. It just makes the whole deck more consistent. I love Erayo, so I always recommend that, but it seems a little inconsistent.
    What we really need is an enabler with a comes into play ability, but I've had trouble finding a decent one.
    Also, we need to focus very heavily on removal for the current Meta.

    What do y'all think about this:


    P.S. We always tend to run a little bit land-light. I want to make sure the draws are effective. I think that Remand and Repeal are too slow for the format, and Faerie Imposter serves the Erayo-flipping function of Repeal while serving as a Quest-enabler and Ninja outlet. Unsummon helps flip Erayo and bust Quests, but Path gets rid of things properly, so that's why that weirdness.
    Any cantrip/brainstorm effect is more than welcome, but I can't find slots for everything.

    I've been playing Ninjas for a long time and they've never been stronger than when they had Erayo. That makes Mistblade Shinobi just amazing and justifies Ornithopter.

    Honorable mentions:
    Ajani Goldmane
    We're running a lot of really crappy creatures. Across the board pump is good for the cause. Our dudes come out fast. An effecient, across the board pump is one of the oldest strategies in the game.
    Grand Architect
    I've played with him and he's pretty good. He let's you crank out fast batterskulls and Argentum Armors while pumping the team. Ninjas can do some real work when you beef them up a little.
    Angel of Jubilation
    Pump/minor disruption.
    Cryptic Command
    Tap your dudes, and Mistblade goes to work. Great card all around, but especially useful for this deck.
    Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    Flying a pumped ninja over seems ok.
    Mayor of Avabruk
    Pumps ninjas and flips fairly easily in this deck (just play a ninja and don't recast the enabler).
    1 Mirror Entity
    Just one, because Higure can fetch him.
    Silverblade Paladin
    Double ninja triggers, anybody?
    Stormfront Riders
    This guy is just so much fun in this deck. Two Faerie Imposters can do some work next to this guy.
    Wingcrafter
    Would be a little more interesting if it functioned as an enabler by himself, but alas, he doesn't quite work. Still, fun.

    Anyhoo, that's my little opinion. Happy playtesting!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Will MTGO Ever Go Mac?
    I got duped into buying a mac because I'm a musician. The moment I did, linux got their audio latency crap together and I would have been better off with a home build running mint or ubuntu studio (10.04). Regardless, I'd love to get modo, but I need virtualbox or some other janky crap to make it work.
    Modo on mac is something they should have done a long time ago. Especially if they want to keep the high school kids into magic throughout college.
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on RWB wedge sliver aggro
    I know this is a little odd, but how about Second Sunrise? It'll save you against wraths and stuff, rewards you for over-extending, and allows you to do crazy stuff with necrotic sliver (assuming you just have piles of mana).
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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