Why someone wants to play a 4th color in bug is beyond me. Are the net gains for having Sphinx's Revelation and Supreme Verdict in the deck worth adding Farseek to ramp and mana fix?
BUG's mana is good enough to play without Farseek unless you're Mutilate to fix your swamp count. In my opinion BUG doesn't usually need a board sweeper on turn 4 with the about of spot removal available to the colors turn 3 or 4 Mutilate isn't really needed.
Good questions. I actually was playing the BUG aggro deck with undying creatures, experiment one, and duskmantle seer before I built this one. I love duskmantle seer, it's my favorite card from gatecrash, and I really want it to work in a more control or tempo oriented shell, but right now I think its only home, if anywhere, is in aggro. The problem is lifegain: you don't have access to enough of it, and if the other side has *enough* of it, you're hosed. The best lifegain in the BUG colors is Thragtusk, and taking 5 from flipping him is just not an option, especially when facing aggressive decks that can put you on a 3-4 turn clock. On the flipside, any time a midrange deck stabilized vs. seer, I usually lost.
That being said, if the Scavenging Ooze reprint happens, you can bet I will brew something with oozes, lotleth trolls, deathrite shamans, duskmantle seers, and oodles of removal. A 2 mana creature that can get big and gain you life off your own removal sounds wonderful.
Forbidden Alchemy is a great card and one I considered (along with think twice). I mentioned I was probably going to move the shamans to the sideboard entirely, and I should and could probably find a home for some additional card draw/digging as I map out the next version of this list. My decision to leave it off was mostly local-meta based - my LGS has a lot of aggro, and an early think twice/alchemy is not always a live card when you are facing 3 creatures turn 2.
Try some Augurs instead. I'm currently trying them out turn two road block is nice plus will most likely get you a removal spell in the process.
Since you're running Farseek ever thought of tryin Reap Intellect in the Side vs control? I'm tempted to testing it.
My Thoughts on Farseek is since BUG is a deck where you play spells when they play spells you don't need them 25-26 lands and removal instead of Farseek even draw spells is probably a better option.
MHD, I like your build. I've been wanting to try out some kind of BUG build, but there are almost too many options for me to focus long enough on a single build/strategy. Yours looks like a solid starting point.
I'm curious if you've directly tested with these:
Duskmantle Seer ? Would probably entail lowering the rest of the curve some and changing character of deck all around to more of a tempo/aggro-control kind of build. Just wondering if you've explored that region.
Forbidden Alchemy One of the only constants I've encountered in my random flailage is that I end up liking 1 or 2 of these. They make the Deathrite shamans a little better too, just from the ability to get some land in the GY.
I tested Duskmantle seer. And idk it felt more like making a delver deck then anything.
Forbidden Alchemy I feel you. I like having 1-2 of em but my current rough list looks like the following:
BUG Control
I've been working on my list for the past couple days and I think I'm at the point where I'm happy with it. Though I am thinking of moving the Unburial rites to the side like in Kamahl's list but for now this is what I got
.
So this is my current list. I played the Finland-winning list at my WMCQ and while the deck was a blast to play, it lost horribly to Reanimator and I struggled against aggro decks, when they had more than 2-3 creatures on the table. That Electrickery in your hand doesn't look so hot with 2 BTE-s on the table turn two. So I decided to throw two Mizzium Mortars out and put Rolling Temblors in their place.
Also...why doesn't this deck usually play Blasphemous Act? For me it now acts as a wincon, when combined with Boros Reckoner. Sire of Insanity/Rakdos's Return switch is a test, I want to find out, which is better in main deck.
I also really love the Blood Barons in the side. If meta goes more aggro, Sorins and/or Obzedats should be replaced with Blood Barons in the main.
My list had been running Acts for like ever. Ever since I added the reckoners in the main.
If you know when to play Sire of Insanity it's probably better since of most of our flashback spells.
Did anyone think of playing blood baron in the side vs an aggro finisher? So far he's the only card note worthy to add to the deck. I wish we had Inquisition of Kozilek in Standard it would be really awesome in current standard
I fully agree with many of the points. Thragtusk is still a very good creature and can take you out of tight spots. For 1 less mana then Ætherling and gains you 5 life and another blocker once he does. Though Ætherling is a better finisher. Ill be hunting a couple of those at release.
Gaze of Granite is definantly going to be considered as a 4 of as it is very powerful.
Ill post an updated list later today with changes I've been considering
This cards give us pretty good card advantage in many levels. This card might be worth using over Havengul Lich. Giving us a card each turn and possibly a creature on the battlefield.
Putrefy
Better removal then Murder it's easier to cast.
Gaze of Granite
We finally got a reliable board wipe. Though versions with Farseek can use Mutilate as it can grab more swamps for a more reliable number of swamps.
Here is a sample list for my fellow BUG Players.
BUG Control
Hi everyone. This is my first time posting here but I thought this first post might be useful for some or all of you.
I've been brewing Grixis for a while with hopes that I can make a good, competitive deck with it but quickly lost hope and started looking for other color combinations to play for control. I obviously wanted to avoid the meta-game American Control or Bant/Esper, so I thought BUG might be nice. It's taken me a couple of weeks and 0-3 drops at weekly FNMs, but last night my LGS held a Thursday Night Standard tournament and I went 3-1-1, finishing sixth place.
Esper Control with a splash of G for Alchemist's Refuge. Other than that, there's really no other differences in the deck.
Game 1 was rather timely. Turn 2 Farseek, Turn 3 is another Seek. At this point on my fourth turn I had a feeling that my opponent was playing a list with little to no counters so I ran a Jace, Memory Adept into the board, and he made it. There was a hasty 10-mill and go. My opponent cast a Lingering Souls followed by its flashback. On my turn I was lucky enough to rip a Mutilate for 2, wiping his board and milling another 10. On his turn he played another Lingering Souls and flashback in attempts to kill Jace, my turn followed with a Snapcaster Mage following with a Mutilate. After just one more turn of getting milled and counting his skimpy library he scooped it up and we take it to G2.
+2 Dissipate
+2 Illness in the Ranks
+1 Vraska the Unseen
+2 Duress
+1 Curse of Echoes
Game 2: My opponent lands Sorin, Lord of Innistrad with some Lingering tokens out and starts poking at me for 1-2 damage a turn. While he was tapped out I snuck in a Curse of Echoes. Now here was the interesting thing. he had Sorin out, he landed a Jace and started milling me. What I had in my hand was Dissipate, Jace, Memory Adept, and Psychic Spiral. I had to all in here because I could win any counter war, so I played passive until Jace started to thin my deck out. On my second-before-last turn I play a Jace to null out the planeswalkers and pass, he pokes me down to 5 life, and I activate a Nephalia Drownyard at his EoT. On my turn went, draw, play land. Play Farseek, fail to find. At this point I had counted 42 cards in my graveyard, my opponent had a supple amount of lands, played 2 planeswalkers, and had plenty of cards in his GY thanks to Nephalia. Having Curse out I decided to main phase mill myself, going down to a whopping 4 cards, then put the Psychic Spiral onto the battlefield. Its foiled glory staring my opponent in the face. He sighed, acknowledging that any counter is a futile attempt and grabbed his library. He counted thirty cards, looked at the last five and scooped it up, giving me the 2-0 win. ((Sorry for the epic story, this one was my most exciting match of the night.))
Current Record 1-0
Round 2: Gruul Aggro.
Game 1: I had no idea what my opponent was playing, and kept a balanced hand of an Abrupt Decay, Forbidden Alchemy, Syncopate and lands. Turns out I couldn't Syncopate his Emissary because he went first, and the beatdown was too fast for my draws into lands and Thragtusk.
+2 Tree of Redemption
+1 Thragtusk
+2 Essence Scatter
Game 2 and 3 were much alike. I counter his Emissary. Wipe the board with mutilates. Land Redemption, and stall until I draw my Thragtusks. I kept cutting it close, going down to 6 life, then hastily switching totals with my Tree of Redemption to get Speared to 10 again. But then the rest was history, landing 2 Tusks and sweeping the games up.
Record 2-0
Round 3: Naya Blitz.
I didn't expect to see this tonight, but I did, and it hurt.
Game 1: He kept a onelander, and played 3 Champions of the Parish. I land a Garruk, make a wolf and pass. He threw 2 champs at Garruk, I blocked one and flipped Garruk. Next turn I play a land and pass. On his turn he drew a Stomping Grounds, played Emissary, and tried to Spear my 1/1 deathtouch but I had to syncopate it. I blocked his biggest Champion and ate some more damage. He draws another emissary, and from there on I couldn't handle anything else.
SB:
-2 Jace
-1 Urban Evolution
+1 Thragtusk
+2 Tree of Redemption
Game 2: I kept a good hand of Mutilate, Barter, and Abrupt Decay. I abrupt Decay his first champion after he tried to play an Elite. I drew a farseek and tried to get my swamp count up in order to stay ahead of any more champions. Turns out he landed one, couple turns later got it to 5, I had 4 swamps and couldn't wipe his board even after Barter. That deck is too good, man. I wasn't upset about this loss, though. I was happy enough to win my first 2 rounds scot-free.
Record 2-1
This list was very interesting, he ran Gideon! Anyway, onto the games.
Game 1: Again, I had the notion that these control lists ran very little counters and a lot of creature hate. So I play a Jace, Memory Adept as fast as I could and start rushing the mill plan. I also had a Garruk out spamming tokens, he had a Tamiyo that kept tapping down irrelevant guys. He was also very cheeky playing Fog to mitigate damage. At one point I ulti'd Lili and instantly threw Tamiyo in 1 pile and the lands in the other. He opted to keep Tamiyo, he drew, played a land and passed without Ulting Tamiyo. At this point he realized he punted and scooped it up.
SB:
-3 Thragtusk
-2 Havengul Lich
-1 Farseek
+2 Dissipate
+1 Vraska the Unseen
+2 Duress
+1 Curse of Echoes
Game 2 he lands Witchbane Orb, Jace, and Gideon on me. I just try to stall out for a Vraska, or Psychic Spiral even. He animated Gideon and I tried to cast Devour Flesh on it when he had Orb and play, total derp. After eating 8 damage and not drawing a Vraska I decided to scoop it up, this game was a lost cause.
SB:
-2 Devour Flesh
+2 Thragtusk
I figured that I should atleast put on some pressure, so I grabbed 2 creatures just in case, since I figured he'd side out Fog.
Game 3 was a turn 1 Duress, I sniped his Orb and then Farseek'd. He missed his fifth land drop while I landed Jace, and Garruk. He didn't hit a land for three more turns and decided enough was enough.
Record 3-1
Fifth round was a draw into top8.
Top 8 matches
Round 1: Bant Delver
I was not expecting to see this deck at all.
Game 1: I kept a land of Farseek, Alchemy and Thragtusk. He played Delver, it flipped the following turn. He played a Selesnya Charm on my EoT, followed by Call of the Conclave. Too many beefy tokens knocked my life count down too far and lost.
Game 2: He had 2 delvers that didn't flip for a while, and i was able to Mutilate them away. He then played a Call of the Conclave and Selesnya charm and I followed with a Barter, then a Thragtusk. I Duress'd him one turn and saw he had Cloudfin Raptor and Geist of Saint Traft with me sitting on 2 Essence Scatter. With all this pressure slowly leaving the field I decided to counter both his creatures and I started bashing in with my Thragtusk. He eventually laid down another Centaur token, but i kept on the aggressive. I got him down to 1 life and then he played a Geist of Saint Traft. I couldn't dig up the Mutilate fast enough and the flying angel finished me off for my top 8 finish.
My final thoughts are I believe that I'm going to take out Illness in the Ranks, possibly for Naturalize or more removal. If I'm going to be afraid of something like "Assemble the Legion" I'd rather take out the source and not stall the tokens. I feel like I played to my absolute best this night and even then I learned about the deck and what I should be afraid of.
For those who read through the whole thing I hope you liked it.
I read it. Glad you did good. My list cut the Farseeks because we got a very fast blood rush deck in my meta and most of the time I never wanted to cast Farseek and get blown up the turn later even on turn two I would rather kill a creature.
On a side note I've been trying to fit Liliana in the deck and even possibly Garruk relentless. And move Jace to the side with a list like the following:
Ah yes, I do think I remember seeing that now. Prime Speaker seems great with this deck if you can get her down with control of a Thragtusk. And yeah, you really don't need to cast your opponents creatures when you can have a repeating Thragtusk or Prime Speaker Zegana.
I haven't been testing BUG Control at all recently because I've been testing/playing BUG tempo (as I'm low on cash and can't afford certain cards), but I'd love to test out something similar to your new list.
Also another question about your list, how have you been liking Urban Evolution? I thought about adding at least one to my list a little while ago as it seems perfect for more dig and ramp.
Sorry for the typos ^.^
And Urban Evolution is mainly just a way to refill your hand. And ramp up. With Zegana it isn't this great I might cut it depending how the deck plays out and maybe add 1
Evil Twin in the main
I feel like with salvage you're missing out on getting 23 of your cards, which could possibly save you a turn or even win you the game. I'm gonna need to try it out, but just dumping spells as snapcaster fodder (except for the jaces) doesn't seem strong enough to me.
I really like your creature suite though, and I'm definitely going to give that a try. Regards to the Lich, have you thought about chromatic lantern? Gives you the correct mana to cast all of your opponents creatures while fixing your own mana. Might be too cute, but seems really good in conjunction with the lich.
My original list had two lanterns I'm testing Zegana instead of lanter. Most of the time I rather cast my own Thragtusk over and over again instead of taking my opine to creatures
I'm leaning towards infesting some money into standard staples but right now I don't know if I should wait for MM to be released. Or wait till Modern season is officially over to see if the prices move?
Mainly thinking investing in Goyfs and fetch lands first.
Dreadbore has not been too slow? I prefer Orzhov Charm over it any day of the week. I would also run Pillar over it simply because in the early game, 2 is enough for Aggro where they can catch you off guard. It helps combat but draws better. Orzhov Charm's instant speed has always been worth the loss of life. It opens up paths for your beaters or saves you from crazy triggers like AoS.
I took out AoS mainly because she cost so much. But if you insist on the Unburial Rites package, AoS is the best target in my opinion. She is so good when she can land reliably.
As I stated, Olivia is just weak for us. Gideon is a champ, pun intended.
I love Dreadbore. I'm working on finding room for 3 Lili of the veils and I'm actually leaning to dropping down to 2 Dreadbore and add 2 Charms which is probably the best compromise.
Was thinking cutting 1 Lingering Souls for a liliana and 1 Mizzium but that card has been too good for me so I'm hesitant. I do love the Unburial package
BUG's mana is good enough to play without Farseek unless you're Mutilate to fix your swamp count. In my opinion BUG doesn't usually need a board sweeper on turn 4 with the about of spot removal available to the colors turn 3 or 4 Mutilate isn't really needed.
So here is my current list
3 Thragtusk
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Ætherling
Removal ( 10 )
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Tragic Slip
3 Putrefy
2 Far // Away
1 Ultimate Price
Mass Removal ( 3 )
3 Gaze of Granite
Counters ( 4 )
2 Dissipate
2 Plasm Capture
4 Think Twice
1 Deadbridge Chant
Planeswalkers ( 5 )
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Vraska the Unseen
Lands ( 25 )
4 Watery Grave
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Nephalia Drownyard
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Dispel
2 Duress
2 Reap Intellect
3 Barter in Blood
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Negate
2 Evil Twin
1 Progenitor Minic
Try some Augurs instead. I'm currently trying them out turn two road block is nice plus will most likely get you a removal spell in the process.
Since you're running Farseek ever thought of tryin Reap Intellect in the Side vs control? I'm tempted to testing it.
My Thoughts on Farseek is since BUG is a deck where you play spells when they play spells you don't need them 25-26 lands and removal instead of Farseek even draw spells is probably a better option.
I tested Duskmantle seer. And idk it felt more like making a delver deck then anything.
Forbidden Alchemy I feel you. I like having 1-2 of em but my current rough list looks like the following:
BUG Control
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Augur of Bolas
4 Thragtusk
2 Havengul Lich
Instants ( 15 )
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Tragic Slip
3 Putrefy
4 Think Twice
3 Dissipate
2 Plasm Capture
Sorceries ( 4 )
4 Gaze of Granite
2 Jace, the Memory Adept
2 Garruk Relentless
Enchantments ( 1 )
1 Deadbridge Chant
Lands ( 25 )
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
3 Woodland Cemetery
3 Breeding Pool
3 Hinterland Harbour
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Evil Twin
2 Acidic Slime
1 Negate
2 Duress
1 Putrefy
1 Ultimate Price
2 Dispel
2 Progenitor Mimic
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Nephalia Drownyard
Still working on the sideboard. To make both control and aggro / midrange decks.
Got question on the list feel free to ask.
.
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Olivia Voldaren
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Sire of Insanity
2 Angel of Serenity
Sorceries ( 13 )
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Dreadbore
2 Unburial Rites
2 Ultimate Price
2 Tragic Slip
Artifacts ( 2 )
2 Rakdos Keyrune
Lands ( 25 )
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Isolated Chapel
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Dreadbore
3 Purify the Grave
2 Slaughter Games
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Rolling Tumbler
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Ultimate Price
My list had been running Acts for like ever. Ever since I added the reckoners in the main.
If you know when to play Sire of Insanity it's probably better since of most of our flashback spells.
Gaze of Granite is definantly going to be considered as a 4 of as it is very powerful.
Ill post an updated list later today with changes I've been considering
Deadbridge Chant
This cards give us pretty good card advantage in many levels. This card might be worth using over Havengul Lich. Giving us a card each turn and possibly a creature on the battlefield.
Putrefy
Better removal then Murder it's easier to cast.
Gaze of Granite
We finally got a reliable board wipe. Though versions with Farseek can use Mutilate as it can grab more swamps for a more reliable number of swamps.
Here is a sample list for my fellow BUG Players.
BUG Control
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thragtusk
2 Havengul Lich
Instants ( 16 )
3Abrupt Decay
2 Tragic Slip
2 Putrefy
4 Think Twice
3 Dissipate
1 Plasm Capture
Sorceries ( 7 )
3 Gaze of Granite
4 Farseek
Planeswalkers ( 2 )
2 Jace, the Memory Adept
2 Deadbridge Chant
Lands ( 25 )
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
3 Woodland Cemetery
3 Breeding Pool
2 Hinterland Harbour
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Alchemist's Refuge
2 Swamp
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Evil Twin
1 Negate
1 Psychic Spiral
2 Duress
1 Essence Scatter
1 Tragic Slip
2 Dispel
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Tormord's crypt
I read it. Glad you did good. My list cut the Farseeks because we got a very fast blood rush deck in my meta and most of the time I never wanted to cast Farseek and get blown up the turn later even on turn two I would rather kill a creature.
On a side note I've been trying to fit Liliana in the deck and even possibly Garruk relentless. And move Jace to the side with a list like the following:
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thragtusk
2 Havengul Lich
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
Instants ( 18 )
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ultimate Price
2 Tragic Slip
2 Murder
4 Think Twice
1 Dimir Charm
3 Dissipate
1 Syncopate
3 Mutilate
Planeswalkers ( 4 )
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless
Lands ( 25 )
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hinterland Harbour
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Alchemist's Refuge
2 Swamp
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Evil Twin
1 Negate
2 Jace, the Memory Adept
1 Psychic Spiral
3 Duress
1 Essence Scatter
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Dispel
1 Vraska the Unseen
Sorry for the typos ^.^
And Urban Evolution is mainly just a way to refill your hand. And ramp up. With Zegana it isn't this great I might cut it depending how the deck plays out and maybe add 1
Evil Twin in the main
My original list had two lanterns I'm testing Zegana instead of lanter. Most of the time I rather cast my own Thragtusk over and over again instead of taking my opine to creatures
BUG Control
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thragtusk
2 Havengul Lich
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
Instants ( 17 )
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ultimate Price
2 Murder
3 Think Twice
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Dissipate
1 Syncopate
3 Mutilate
1 Urban Evolution
Planeswalkers ( 2 )
2 Jace, Memory Adept
Lands ( 25 )
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hinterland Harbour
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Nephalia Drownyard
2 Swamp
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Witchbane Orb
2 Negate
1 Psychic Spiral
3 Ground Seal
2 Ultimate Price
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Dispel
Mainly thinking investing in Goyfs and fetch lands first.
So is it worth infesting the 100+ for each Goyf??
I love Dreadbore. I'm working on finding room for 3 Lili of the veils and I'm actually leaning to dropping down to 2 Dreadbore and add 2 Charms which is probably the best compromise.
Was thinking cutting 1 Lingering Souls for a liliana and 1 Mizzium but that card has been too good for me so I'm hesitant. I do love the Unburial package