Went to Game Day with this and went undefeated (4-0). I was expecting more aggro in my area but there was a total of 4 control decks (including myself). The rest of the decks were midrange or some heroic stuff. I ended up facing 2 Esper control, an American control and a random heroic deck. The control match ups went 2-1 and pretty much came down to who drew their counters and sideboard. However, I was able to have 2 AEtherlings on board to close out a couple of matches. Overall, I felt the deck ran well. I'd like to change up the sideboard a bit though.
Lack of Forbidden alchemy seems very wrong. Also only 3x Think Twice and 4x Thought Scour seems wrong. IF you truly have no aggro I guess skipping
out on sweepers could work...
I tried out Forbidden Alchemy and it was pretty clunky. It usually hurt me instead of helping me, so I took it out. I understand that it digs through the deck, but I rather use the mana for a counter or cheaper draw power. The Thought Scour works great, both early game and late game. It's a cheap way to get Consuming Aberration big, plus it replaces itself. I didn't want to max out the Think Twice because I felt the need not to. Yeah, only sweeper available is Mutilate and it can be clunky as well.
My meta is filled with midrange and control decks so, it runs pretty good. Aggro is a problem, but we don't have many aggro decks around here. Let me know what ya'll think!
AceSpartan: The most immeidae point I come to is that you only run 2 think twice and your only other card that can draw more than one card is Jace. This sort of deck generally wants to be able to draw more than the opponent. (Thought scour doesn't work so well as it uses one to draw one). So I'm not surprised you ended up empty handed. Though your deck looks faster paced than the lists we've been talking abotu so perhaps that's the plan (you run more creatures and less land), Mind grind sems odd.
I will probably cut down on the kill spells to put more draw and counters. I played against one of the only aggro decks in my area and my meta is somewhat filled with control/midrage decks. As for the Mind Grind, it's a finisher. I was able to pull it off one game as my opponent had only 5 lands in his deck and I Mind Grinded for 7. It's a one-of, so I don't draw it too often.
I tested this out against a Barely Boros deck and we went about even. The games I lost was due to not getting any removal. For the games I won, got my counters and removal on hand. Also, dropping a Jace to do at least one mill 10 and save me from getting hit was good. Consuming Aberration proved to be a big threat as I got him up to 30 something. As for troubles with the deck, most of the time I had no hand. Spending those kill spells on everything killed the hand, but it allowed me to keep the field at a controllable state.
Delver is still the same ol delver. With no charm to flip him consistantly or index (yes its bad but duskseer helps the card loss) he is very inconsistent. Many games this guy just never flips on a blind flip. Other games you ride him to a free win. I don't know if he will stay in over cloudfin raptor. After testing some games with raptor he isn't that great either. I may end up with deathrite shaman as my 1 drop. We have plenty of spells to fuel his shock and mana ramp.
Blind Obedience gets my vote for most powerful card in the deck. This is the real tempo stealer in the deck. They cannot play turtle until my board is critical mass and overwhelm. This card alone shoots that strategy down. Don't expect more than 1 trigger per spell. Delver is a deck that doesn't need a lot of lands and this is very mana hungry triggers. This helps negate a lot of duskmantle seer's life loss. Each card will lose you 1 less life but still ping an opponent putting you at a better rate of life loss per card than you opponent.
Duskmantle seer is an absolute beast. Getting even 1 swing in then playing another is usually just game over for your opponents. They have to kill him on their turn which means they are not catching up on the board.
I think the core of the deck will be blind obedience, seer, GoST, snapcaster, Azorius charm, thought scour, and runechanter pike.
A point I would like to make about dimir charm. I have yet to use it for its Fateseal. It has been more often destroy 2 power guy. Because of this Orzhov charm might be the way to go. It rebuys your delvers and can save your creatures from removal/supreme verdict and in a pinch take out small guys. A 1-2 life loss for killing a 1-2 drop isn't a big deal with blind obedience. I may have to rethink the charms. Orzhov actually cycles where dimir does not.
I'd like to see the list you're testing. Seems pretty awesome. I have a list, but it is untested. I like the Nivmagus Elemental + Hands of Binding combo so, I have it in there. Going to test this soon and if the combo doesn't work, I'll have to throw in some stuff like Blind Obedience. Here's the list:
I got 2nd place at my local store's Game Day (2nd out of 14 people). Let's break down the matches I played
Round 1: Rakdos Win
Game 1: In the first game, I put out two Delvers within the first two turns. Both flipped turn 3. My opponent didn't get any of his burn spells until it was too late. I was also able to keep his field down with Pillar of Flame, Searing Spear, and Mizzium Mortars. This game ended pretty quick in my favor.
Game 2: We both started off mana screwed, so it was a waiting game. However, my opponent decided start using his burn spells on me which led to his downfall. Eventually, I just Devil's Play for the win.
Win 2-0
Round 2: Jund
Game 1: With this Jund build, I didn't see that much removal besides Abrupt Decay. Straight from the beginning, I started burning off his field. I had 9 sorceries/instants in the graveyard and used Jace's -2 ability to get a Runechanter's Pike. Delver flipped the following turn and equipped the Pike for the win.
Game 2: With him sideboarding out tons of creatures for more control, I did the opposite and loaded up on more removal. A bad call on my part as he was able to overwhelm me with Olivia Voldaren. With him able to pick at his own creatures, she sealed my fate.
Game 3: I sideboarded in more counters than removal. However, I wasn't able to control the field as I was getting mana screwed. With Olivia on the field, I couldn't contain her and she grew stupid huge. She beat me to death.
Loss 1-2
Round 3: Dragon's Path
Game 1: This deck consisted of putting dragons down with Descendant's Path. I wasn't able to get any burn spells during the whole game until it was too late. A Thundermaw Hellkite and Moonveil Dragon beat in my face.
Game 2: I sideboarded in more burn and it did the trick. Whenever he put down a Sleeping Dragon or Dragon Hatchling, I burnt the hell out of it. It did help that he got mana flooded. Easily took this game.
Game 3: I put in Sleep from the sideboard just in case things got out of hand. This card won me the 3rd game. With a Thundermaw Hellkite running wild, Sleep kept it down for two turns thanks to Snapcaster Mage. Talrand's Invocation also helped keep the pressure with a constant four damage each turn. The drakes took me to victory.
Win 2-1
Round 4: B/U Heartless Summoning
Game 1: I was able to overrun him with flyers thanks to Delver flipping and a couple of Talrand's Invocation. Wasn't that hard to win this game.
Game 2: I put in more counters to take care of the big creatures that'd come out. However, I didn't get anything to take care of the creatures. I was totally overwhelmed by big demon flyers. Lost this one pretty quick.
Game 3: I was able to hit my control cards to counter Heartless Summoning. Even if one hit the field, I just used Cyclonic Rift on it to set him back a turn. Being able to flip two Delvers and having 6 Drakes on the field, I took this one with ease.
Win 2-1
Overall, the deck performed very will. The only trouble is having to face Jund as they have removal up the butt and Olivia is a super threat.
If Burning Vengeance decks could not get Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded to work in an effective manner, I don't see how any other decks in Standard would be able to. Are there really no other cards that would be better in that slot? Why even have him as a singleton? You aren't going to draw a one-of him late game and close it out because of that. Also, just because you have Pike and Snapcaster does not mean that it is always good to fill up your graveyard for the sake of filling up your graveyard. We have a nice way of putting cards in our graveyard already, and that is casting them.
So, I tested out IxidorVersionTwo's version of Izzet Delver and it worked out great (Good job!). I've also tested out some of the other builds here on the thread and IxidorVersionTwo's build is the most consistent. With my local meta being mostly being aggro & midrange, I felt that the list had enough burn and control to take care of anything in the way.
One problem I found is that sometimes against aggro decks, I won't have a hand due to burning everything on sight to control the field. Putting two Desperate Ravings helps keep the hand healthy. Even though you have to randomly discard, Snapcaster Mage will help use that spell again.
My buddy Tibalt. Many have let him be until they realize they should've killed the bastard. Even though he doesn't look very good, Tibalt gives you a free draw per turn. Just like Desperate Ravings, you can get that lost spell with Snapcaster Mage. If they leave him alone for too long, you could burn them for having their hand stocked or take their creatures to swing for the win. He's also a diversion to take pressure off you. Even if you only got a +1 and they killed him, he did his job.
Now, the sideboard tech:
- Tamiyo keeps the fatties down.
- Talrand brings the flyers if left alone.
- Augur keeps aggro decks at bay and nets you a free card. (Might mainboard this)
- Invisible Stalkers battle Jund, makes them have dead cards in hand. Only thing to worry about is Golgari Charm
- Pillar, Mortars, & Tremblor are there to combat aggro decks if the mainboard needs more firepower
- Cyclonic Rifts to take care of annoying enchantments/artifacts/anything else
- Negate & Syncopate to add more counters if needed
- Pike for extra beats if needed
- Tomad's Crypt is to take care of zombies & any Unburial Rites nonsense
Any comments, suggestions? With Game Day coming up next weekend, any help would be great!
2x AEtherling
2x Keranos, God of Storms
Planeswalkers: 4
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
Sorceries/Instants: 25
2x Dissolve
2x Syncopate
2x Counterflux
4x Dreadbore
3x Opportunity
2x Far/Away
2x Turn/Burn
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Thoughtseize
4x Mountain
3x island
2x Mutavault
4x Watery Grave
4x Steam Vents
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Temple of Malice
2x Temple of Epiphany
1x Extinguish All Hope
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Mizzium Mortars
2x Doom Blade
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Duress
2x Negate
2x Devour Flesh
2x Stormbreath Dragon
I tried out Forbidden Alchemy and it was pretty clunky. It usually hurt me instead of helping me, so I took it out. I understand that it digs through the deck, but I rather use the mana for a counter or cheaper draw power. The Thought Scour works great, both early game and late game. It's a cheap way to get Consuming Aberration big, plus it replaces itself. I didn't want to max out the Think Twice because I felt the need not to. Yeah, only sweeper available is Mutilate and it can be clunky as well.
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Consuming Abberation
Planeswalkers: 5
1x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
3x Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries/Instants: 25
4x Psychic Strike
1x Dissipate
2x Syncopate
2x Dimir Charm
4x Thought Scour
3x Think Twice
2x Victim of Night
3x Devour Flesh
2x Tragic Slip
2x Ultimate Price
4x Watery Grave
4x Drowned Catacomb
6x Swamp
5x Island
4x Nephalia Drownyard
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Psychic Spiral
2x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dispel
2x Negate
2x Duress
2x Dead Weight
2x Curse of Death's Hold
1x Witchbane Orb
1x Victim of Night
1x Dissipate
My meta is filled with midrange and control decks so, it runs pretty good. Aggro is a problem, but we don't have many aggro decks around here. Let me know what ya'll think!
I will probably cut down on the kill spells to put more draw and counters. I played against one of the only aggro decks in my area and my meta is somewhat filled with control/midrage decks. As for the Mind Grind, it's a finisher. I was able to pull it off one game as my opponent had only 5 lands in his deck and I Mind Grinded for 7. It's a one-of, so I don't draw it too often.
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Augur of Bolas
1x Consuming Abberation
1x Duskmantle Seer
Planeswalkers: 3
1x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Liliana of the Veil
Instants/Sorceries: 24
2x Syncopate
2x Dissipate
3x Psychic Strike
2x Devour Flesh
2x Dimir Charm
2x Ultimate Price
2x Victim of Night
2x Tragic Slip
4x Thought Scour
2x Think Twice
1x Mind Grind
4x Watery Grave
4x Drowned Catacomb
7x Swamp
5x Island
2x Nephalia Drownyard
2x Ghost Quarter
I tested this out against a Barely Boros deck and we went about even. The games I lost was due to not getting any removal. For the games I won, got my counters and removal on hand. Also, dropping a Jace to do at least one mill 10 and save me from getting hit was good. Consuming Aberration proved to be a big threat as I got him up to 30 something. As for troubles with the deck, most of the time I had no hand. Spending those kill spells on everything killed the hand, but it allowed me to keep the field at a controllable state.
Let me know what you guys think!
I'd like to see the list you're testing. Seems pretty awesome. I have a list, but it is untested. I like the Nivmagus Elemental + Hands of Binding combo so, I have it in there. Going to test this soon and if the combo doesn't work, I'll have to throw in some stuff like Blind Obedience. Here's the list:
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Duskmantle Seer
2x Nivmagus Elemental
4x Snapcaster Mage
Sorceries/Instants: 23
4x Dimir Charm
2x Dissipate
3x Orzhov Charm
3x Hands of Binding
2x Syncopate
2x Azorius Charm
3x Thought Scour
2x Ultimate Price
2x Lingering Souls
2x Runechanter's Pike
Lands: 23
4x Hallowed Fountain
3x Glacial Fotress
4x Watery Grave
3x Drowned Catacombs
2x Godless Shrine
2x Isolated Chapel
1x Moorland Haunt
2x Island
2x Swamp
1x Dungeon Geists
1x Augur of Bolas
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Delver of Secrets
Sorceries/Instants: 26
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Searing Spear
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Devil's Play
4x Thought Scour
2x Think Twice
2x Syncopate
2x Dissipate
2x Talrand's Invocation
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Izzet Charm
1x Counterflux
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
Equipment: 2
2x Runechanter's Pike
Lands: 21
7x Island
5x Mountain
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Steam Vents
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1x Augur of Bolas
2x Invisible Stalker
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Negate
1x Sleep
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Pillar of Flame
1x Searing Spear
1x Counterflux
1x Runechanter's Pike
1x Tormod's Crypt
I got 2nd place at my local store's Game Day (2nd out of 14 people). Let's break down the matches I played
Round 1: Rakdos Win
Game 1: In the first game, I put out two Delvers within the first two turns. Both flipped turn 3. My opponent didn't get any of his burn spells until it was too late. I was also able to keep his field down with Pillar of Flame, Searing Spear, and Mizzium Mortars. This game ended pretty quick in my favor.
Game 2: We both started off mana screwed, so it was a waiting game. However, my opponent decided start using his burn spells on me which led to his downfall. Eventually, I just Devil's Play for the win.
Win 2-0
Round 2: Jund
Game 1: With this Jund build, I didn't see that much removal besides Abrupt Decay. Straight from the beginning, I started burning off his field. I had 9 sorceries/instants in the graveyard and used Jace's -2 ability to get a Runechanter's Pike. Delver flipped the following turn and equipped the Pike for the win.
Game 2: With him sideboarding out tons of creatures for more control, I did the opposite and loaded up on more removal. A bad call on my part as he was able to overwhelm me with Olivia Voldaren. With him able to pick at his own creatures, she sealed my fate.
Game 3: I sideboarded in more counters than removal. However, I wasn't able to control the field as I was getting mana screwed. With Olivia on the field, I couldn't contain her and she grew stupid huge. She beat me to death.
Loss 1-2
Round 3: Dragon's Path
Game 1: This deck consisted of putting dragons down with Descendant's Path. I wasn't able to get any burn spells during the whole game until it was too late. A Thundermaw Hellkite and Moonveil Dragon beat in my face.
Game 2: I sideboarded in more burn and it did the trick. Whenever he put down a Sleeping Dragon or Dragon Hatchling, I burnt the hell out of it. It did help that he got mana flooded. Easily took this game.
Game 3: I put in Sleep from the sideboard just in case things got out of hand. This card won me the 3rd game. With a Thundermaw Hellkite running wild, Sleep kept it down for two turns thanks to Snapcaster Mage. Talrand's Invocation also helped keep the pressure with a constant four damage each turn. The drakes took me to victory.
Win 2-1
Round 4: B/U Heartless Summoning
Game 1: I was able to overrun him with flyers thanks to Delver flipping and a couple of Talrand's Invocation. Wasn't that hard to win this game.
Game 2: I put in more counters to take care of the big creatures that'd come out. However, I didn't get anything to take care of the creatures. I was totally overwhelmed by big demon flyers. Lost this one pretty quick.
Game 3: I was able to hit my control cards to counter Heartless Summoning. Even if one hit the field, I just used Cyclonic Rift on it to set him back a turn. Being able to flip two Delvers and having 6 Drakes on the field, I took this one with ease.
Win 2-1
Overall, the deck performed very will. The only trouble is having to face Jund as they have removal up the butt and Olivia is a super threat.
If need be, I can always take him out to put in a Cyclonic Rift, Augur of Bolas, or Sleep.
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Augur of Bolas
1x Dungeon Geists
Planeswalkers: 1
1x Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
Sorceries: 10
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Talrand's Invocation
2x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Devil's Play
Instants: 16
4x Thought Scour
2x Izzet Charm
2x Dissipate
2x Syncopate
1x Counterflux
2x Desperate Ravings
2x Searing Spear
1x Brimstone Volley
2x Runechanter's Pike
Lands: 21
7x Island
5x Mountain
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Steam Vents
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1x Augur of Bolas
2x Invisible Stalker
1x Pillar of Flame
1x Rolling Temblor
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Syncopate
1x Negate
2x Cyclonic Rift
1x Runechanter's Pike
2x Tormod's Crypt
So, I tested out IxidorVersionTwo's version of Izzet Delver and it worked out great (Good job!). I've also tested out some of the other builds here on the thread and IxidorVersionTwo's build is the most consistent. With my local meta being mostly being aggro & midrange, I felt that the list had enough burn and control to take care of anything in the way.
One problem I found is that sometimes against aggro decks, I won't have a hand due to burning everything on sight to control the field. Putting two Desperate Ravings helps keep the hand healthy. Even though you have to randomly discard, Snapcaster Mage will help use that spell again.
My buddy Tibalt. Many have let him be until they realize they should've killed the bastard. Even though he doesn't look very good, Tibalt gives you a free draw per turn. Just like Desperate Ravings, you can get that lost spell with Snapcaster Mage. If they leave him alone for too long, you could burn them for having their hand stocked or take their creatures to swing for the win. He's also a diversion to take pressure off you. Even if you only got a +1 and they killed him, he did his job.
Now, the sideboard tech:
- Tamiyo keeps the fatties down.
- Talrand brings the flyers if left alone.
- Augur keeps aggro decks at bay and nets you a free card. (Might mainboard this)
- Invisible Stalkers battle Jund, makes them have dead cards in hand. Only thing to worry about is Golgari Charm
- Pillar, Mortars, & Tremblor are there to combat aggro decks if the mainboard needs more firepower
- Cyclonic Rifts to take care of annoying enchantments/artifacts/anything else
- Negate & Syncopate to add more counters if needed
- Pike for extra beats if needed
- Tomad's Crypt is to take care of zombies & any Unburial Rites nonsense
Any comments, suggestions? With Game Day coming up next weekend, any help would be great!