So the other night at an FNM I was wating a match and the end of round one. The only thing on the board was a Chain to the Rockson a Siege Rhino. The Rhino controller cast Banishing Light targeting the Chain. The other player then in response to the target of Banishing Light cast Utter End targetting the Banishing Light.
My understanding, and most of the people watching, the room was probably torn 50/50 on it. Is that the target would resolve removing the Chain from play. This would bring the Rhino back to the board so it's ETB effect would be put on the stack. Then the Chain would re-enter and could target Rhino again. What ended up happening, the plays agreed to this, but neither were quite sure. The banishing light trigger fizzles and doesn't remove chain to the rocks and the banishing light is then exiled...
People that agreed with that ruling were saying that it's not the same way Oblivion Ring. Nobody was saying it did work the same way. The would cause both the Chain and Banishing Light to be exiled. Would it not though still blink out the chain while abilities were on the stack?
Would it be illegal to crack a fetchland, even if you can't get a land?
What I mean is say there are 2 mountains and 1 swamp in play already. I know those are the only basics in the deck. I draw a Bloodstain Mire and play it. Can I then crack it to shuffle my library if I feel I'm in the middle of a land pocket, or do you have to be able to fetch a land?
In a kitchen table setting or a for fun FNM you can say you change your mind or ask if you can take back any of the plays, change mana etc...most of the time your opponent will let you.
If you are in a large tournament like a TCG, SCG Open/Invitational or a PTQ or something then the opponent will not allow you and you have to stick with what you played. Now if you are in like round 9 of 10 and both are like 2-6 or something then they might cause at that point it's just for fun.
I'm sure there is a rule out there stating that No, once a card or mana is played/tapped or an ability triggered it can't be changed (outside of another spell/ability causing it) most of the time if the game is just for fun people aren't going to care.
The name of the tokens are a copyable value, and they are copies of the original card, so they will all be named Pack Rat and they will be hit by the Bile Blight.
And just to add on, cause somebody will probably be wondering.. The tokens count toward your devotion as well. Also a Ratchet Bomb would have to go up to 2 counters to destroy the copies.
Golgari will be a powerful thing, who's ready for a return of The Rock?
How do you figure? It's the deck I'm currently trying to run and without the scry lands it's just wonky on the mana. I have tried different combinations of Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay and nothing has really worked.
When you break it down splashing green and throwing off the mono B mana base for like 5-7 cards just isn't worth it. This becomes a side board card maybe over Pharika's Cure since it can kill an army of small tokens.
I was really looking for something closer to Mutilate again or a board wipe that was like -x/-x is equal to devotion to black.
I was wondering if Nighthowler ability as a creature continuously looks to see how many creature are in all graveyards or is it just when the spell resolves that it matters?
It is a constant effect. So as more creatures are put into the graveyard Nighthowler would be come larger, or if all creatures are removed from something like Rest in Peace, it's power and toughness would become 0 and die.
(I'm thinking enchantments, but I want to be sure)
If he was the only permanent with the Red Mana symbol he would just be an enchantment. If after the Warp World effect is done there are 5 or more Red Mana symbols this would allow Purphoros to become a creature.
Sooooooo, at the end of the turn if I want to pump Ooze three times, I have to do it all at once?
Technically you can't do it all at once. Each activation would go onto the stack and for each activation your opponent would have the opportunity to respond.
Most people though when doing this just tap all 3 and select their targets. This is normally just allowed to speed up play slightly. It is much faster to say tap 3 exile X,Y,Z
Then tap, target, resolves?
Tap, target, resolves?
tap, target, resolves?
I understand the sentiment, but this is one reason he's probably the one of the best brewers in the game today. Casuals would think this will be so awesome take their blow out creature when I turn over my big spell.
In reality that play almost never happens, and streamlining the deck makes it more stable and perform better.
DRS is good to get in last points of damage, chump blocking against aggro to get you to that t4 mutilate. Good against snapcaster mage amd control
I originally was trying to play DRS as a 2 of in the MB. I just can't really find a good spot though anymore with the deck lists most people are running right now.
So, I attended a PTQ last Sunday - Didn't go as well as I had hoped
I did finish with a positive win record, but hey, that little bit of luck you always need to send you over the top eluded me this time -
I'll give a couple of examples as one of them at least is a good brain exercise -
Against Esper - Game 1 I mulled to 5 - Kept a one land hand, my draw step for the next 11 turns were 9 lands, one sign in blood, one abrupt decay -
I had a double messenger draw though, my opponent sphered them both, that promptly got abrupt decayed, and my opponent was dead next turn - He has three Spheres in the deck, he has used 2, and alas, top decks the only card left that wins him the game, the third sphere - Well done -
Against Junk Rites from a year ago - Well, Behemoths, MB liliana, Troll, Lingering Souls, Griselbrand? So, my opponent has 5 lingering souls tokens - I have a thragtusk and am at 21 life - I have a hand full of awesome cards, my opponent has no hand - Opponent proceeds to top deck Mulch, binning Behemoth, Unburial rites, and the land needed to FB unburial rites - Well done -
Against Naya Blitz - - Kept a good hand against most decks game 1, but not against a blitz nut draw, on to game 2 - Not close, this is oneof our best match ups -
Game 3 - I'm at 4 life - My opponent has - Double Lightning Mauler, BTE
In hand I have - Thragtusk, Charm, Double Mutilate, Sign in Blood, Land, land
My options as far as I can tell are - Play Tusk, go to 9 life, the only card that beats me in this scenario is Rampager off of the top - I should explain, my opponent has no hand - He has already used 2 Rampagers, so only 2 left -
Or - Wrath the board, and die to a top decks Boros Charm, of which there are 4 left -
Ideally what I would have liked to have done was, win the die role, play land number 7, cast Tusk and Charm, putting me on 9 and my opponent with a BTE -
I opted to play Tusk and go to 9 - My opponent top decked Rampager - Well done -
All being said, I had a very fun day with 9 rounds of swiss - To be honest though, I was tired, being responsible for so many peoples preparation before the event took it's tole towards the end -
Liliana was by far, the worst card in my deck all day - Even in the matches it was supposed to be good, it was bad -
Incursion, saved my butt against aggro a couple of times -
Gaze of Granite did almost nothing
I think I want something else against Junk -
Most of you have already as I read the posts, considering hopping back onto the Shaman Plan, and I'm going to join you, for now, see where it takes me - I'm also going to try out a couple of Sepulchral Primordial - Could be could against Junk, could be good against a lot of other mid-range decks -
Deadbridge Chant, across the 9 rounds of swiss was cast once - The turn after it got Slimed...
So would you suggest cutting Liliana, or moving to just 1 in the deck then?
Against Jund, you should have no problems. The only thing I care about in that match up i killing Olivia and Sire of Insanity. Everything they play can be dealt with and we shouldn't enter topdeck mode unless Sire of Insanity sticks because of Disciple of Bolas.
Against Control I've never had problems because all of our creatures are recurring and we have Disciple of Bolas to draw a million cards.
Against Reanimator we have a fairly tough match up and the biggest thing we need to do it never let them use Acidic Slime otherwise it's game. Deadbridge Chant is how we win late game by causing good recursion.
Now, for your mainboard, I would say -1 Gaze of Granite, -1 Guildgate, -1 Vraska, +1 Swamp, +2 Cremate. For your sideboard I would say -2 Ground Seal, -1 Duress, -1 Underworld Connections, +1 Deadbridge Chant, +2 Vraska + 1 Mutilate.
For sideboarding: if you take the above recommendations I would say go -1 Abrupt Decay, -2 Liliana, +1 Mutilate, +1 Deadbridge Chant, +1 Pithing Needle against Jund. Then for Reanimator, -2 Liliana, -1 Mutilate, -1 Sign in Blood, -3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Deadbridge Chant, + 3 Appetite for Brains, +2 Crypt Incursion. For control -3 Tragic Slip, -3 Mutilate, -2 Victim of the Night or Abrupt Decay depending on if they run Detention Sphere or not, +1 Liliana, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Deadbridge Chant, +2 Vraska, +3 Appetite for Brains
Thanks for the suggestions, few of them I'll definitely be considering strongly as I was thinking the same. I was just trying the 3 guild gates. I noticing a lot of the time I would like 6 land, but it would be all swamps and no green. Was just trying to get another possible green source in there.
Curious though why you say -2 lilly for Jund? Here sac creature is a good way to get rid of Olivia if you can keep the rest of the board clear.
As for Vraska I was considering moving her back to the board as well. I have actually won a few games with the assassin ability, but against a lot of decks she's just a dead card if you get her in game one.
So I have been trying to play this deck since I saw it do fairly well in Nashville. While I enjoy the deck it really seems to struggle, for me at least, against Jund, Reanimator and Control.
Reanimator just plays to many big threats, and if the game goes late there is not much we can do to get the control back.
I've found against Esper Control if I don't dump a Sorin or Tamiyo from their hand quickly, or lay 2-3 dudes by turn 4 the vamp chump blockers just seem to make it impossible to win.
Jund is just Jund. I personally do not consider it a "deck" it's just a collection of the best cards in those colors. The problem is they top deck so much better than we do, and that flipping Olivia is such a pain to get rid of.
I have been going 3-1 the last few weeks at FNM, but I have also been going up against mainly jank home brews and not Tier 1/2 decks. The last large event I played at was a TCG Plat. I started 0-4 in matches and 0-8 for games. Part of it for sure is I'm still learning to play the deck, but it just never felt like the deck could get anything going for me.
That being said here is my list. Would like any thoughts people have.
If anybody has suggestions on how to SB as well. This is by far the aspect I struggle with most in Magic, and it is probably the most important step in any match.
Firstly, OK, it's a counterspell with a slightly more restrictive mana cost than Dissipate or Cancel. However, the only time it's better than either of those is when your opponent intends to play 2 or more spells in one turn, and is unable to do so at instant speed. Remember that your opponent can cast and resolve spells in response to Silence/Render Silent.
So, what kind of deck wants to play 2 spells per turn? I don't play Standard, but the best I can guess is one with Snapcaster Mage in it. In Modern, which I'm more interested in, engine combo decks do - but the only one left is Eggs (thanks for banning Storm and Elves, DCI), and that deck is already notoriously weak to counterspells.
Furthermore, 3 mana is pretty high for a counterspell in Modern. The only playable counterspells at 3 or more mana are Cryptic Command, Condescend and Spell Burst (the latter two only in Tron decks). History does not lend itself strongly to Render Silent being playable in Modern.
Lastly, Silence is not Time Walk. Your opponent can still draw, attack and activate abilities.
All in all, I think this card is merely a 3 mana counterspell with an extremely minor upside in exchange for a worse casting cost. Is that enough to see play? Again, I don't follow Standard, but I'd look to Counterflux for the answer. In Modern, no.
Yeah if you don't play standard you don't see the decks. The heavy aggro decks, like Naya Blitz are looking to play 3 spells at least on Turn 3. If they aren't against control there is a good chance they are loosing the game.
A prohibitive mana arrangement at 3 mana? You've gotta be kidding me, WoTC. This is the best you can do for control?
While I somewhat agree this isn't really powerful you honestly just asked if that is the best they can go do after technically only 2 cards are spoiled with around 130 more left in the set?
Somebody needs to work on some patience. I'm sure that is the only control based card in the set though...
My understanding, and most of the people watching, the room was probably torn 50/50 on it. Is that the target would resolve removing the Chain from play. This would bring the Rhino back to the board so it's ETB effect would be put on the stack. Then the Chain would re-enter and could target Rhino again. What ended up happening, the plays agreed to this, but neither were quite sure. The banishing light trigger fizzles and doesn't remove chain to the rocks and the banishing light is then exiled...
People that agreed with that ruling were saying that it's not the same way Oblivion Ring. Nobody was saying it did work the same way. The would cause both the Chain and Banishing Light to be exiled. Would it not though still blink out the chain while abilities were on the stack?
What I mean is say there are 2 mountains and 1 swamp in play already. I know those are the only basics in the deck. I draw a Bloodstain Mire and play it. Can I then crack it to shuffle my library if I feel I'm in the middle of a land pocket, or do you have to be able to fetch a land?
In a kitchen table setting or a for fun FNM you can say you change your mind or ask if you can take back any of the plays, change mana etc...most of the time your opponent will let you.
If you are in a large tournament like a TCG, SCG Open/Invitational or a PTQ or something then the opponent will not allow you and you have to stick with what you played. Now if you are in like round 9 of 10 and both are like 2-6 or something then they might cause at that point it's just for fun.
I'm sure there is a rule out there stating that No, once a card or mana is played/tapped or an ability triggered it can't be changed (outside of another spell/ability causing it) most of the time if the game is just for fun people aren't going to care.
And just to add on, cause somebody will probably be wondering.. The tokens count toward your devotion as well. Also a Ratchet Bomb would have to go up to 2 counters to destroy the copies.
How do you figure? It's the deck I'm currently trying to run and without the scry lands it's just wonky on the mana. I have tried different combinations of Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay and nothing has really worked.
When you break it down splashing green and throwing off the mono B mana base for like 5-7 cards just isn't worth it. This becomes a side board card maybe over Pharika's Cure since it can kill an army of small tokens.
I was really looking for something closer to Mutilate again or a board wipe that was like -x/-x is equal to devotion to black.
It is a constant effect. So as more creatures are put into the graveyard Nighthowler would be come larger, or if all creatures are removed from something like Rest in Peace, it's power and toughness would become 0 and die.
If he was the only permanent with the Red Mana symbol he would just be an enchantment. If after the Warp World effect is done there are 5 or more Red Mana symbols this would allow Purphoros to become a creature.
Technically you can't do it all at once. Each activation would go onto the stack and for each activation your opponent would have the opportunity to respond.
Most people though when doing this just tap all 3 and select their targets. This is normally just allowed to speed up play slightly. It is much faster to say tap 3 exile X,Y,Z
Then tap, target, resolves?
Tap, target, resolves?
tap, target, resolves?
I understand the sentiment, but this is one reason he's probably the one of the best brewers in the game today. Casuals would think this will be so awesome take their blow out creature when I turn over my big spell.
In reality that play almost never happens, and streamlining the deck makes it more stable and perform better.
I originally was trying to play DRS as a 2 of in the MB. I just can't really find a good spot though anymore with the deck lists most people are running right now.
So would you suggest cutting Liliana, or moving to just 1 in the deck then?
Thanks for the suggestions, few of them I'll definitely be considering strongly as I was thinking the same. I was just trying the 3 guild gates. I noticing a lot of the time I would like 6 land, but it would be all swamps and no green. Was just trying to get another possible green source in there.
Curious though why you say -2 lilly for Jund? Here sac creature is a good way to get rid of Olivia if you can keep the rest of the board clear.
As for Vraska I was considering moving her back to the board as well. I have actually won a few games with the assassin ability, but against a lot of decks she's just a dead card if you get her in game one.
Reanimator just plays to many big threats, and if the game goes late there is not much we can do to get the control back.
I've found against Esper Control if I don't dump a Sorin or Tamiyo from their hand quickly, or lay 2-3 dudes by turn 4 the vamp chump blockers just seem to make it impossible to win.
Jund is just Jund. I personally do not consider it a "deck" it's just a collection of the best cards in those colors. The problem is they top deck so much better than we do, and that flipping Olivia is such a pain to get rid of.
I have been going 3-1 the last few weeks at FNM, but I have also been going up against mainly jank home brews and not Tier 1/2 decks. The last large event I played at was a TCG Plat. I started 0-4 in matches and 0-8 for games. Part of it for sure is I'm still learning to play the deck, but it just never felt like the deck could get anything going for me.
That being said here is my list. Would like any thoughts people have.
13x Swamp
3x Golgari Guildgate
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetary
Creatures
4x Desecration Demon
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Thragtusk
2x Disciple of Bolas
Spells
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Victim of Night
3x Tragic Slip
3x Sign in Blood
3x Mutilate
1x Gaze of Granite
1x Putrefy
1x Deadbridge Chant
Planeswalker
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Garruk Relentless
1x Vraska the Unseen
1x Lilian of the Veil
2x Crypt Incursion
2x Ground Seal
2x Golgari Charm
1x Pithing Needle
3x Appetite for Brains
3x Duress
1x Underworld Connections
If anybody has suggestions on how to SB as well. This is by far the aspect I struggle with most in Magic, and it is probably the most important step in any match.
Yeah if you don't play standard you don't see the decks. The heavy aggro decks, like Naya Blitz are looking to play 3 spells at least on Turn 3. If they aren't against control there is a good chance they are loosing the game.
While I somewhat agree this isn't really powerful you honestly just asked if that is the best they can go do after technically only 2 cards are spoiled with around 130 more left in the set?
Somebody needs to work on some patience. I'm sure that is the only control based card in the set though...