I'm likely going to be straying from pure MBA into BW, or even BWG. I won't be going Warriors, though I have tested with it - I just think the W adds a lot. Ajani's Presence/Gods Willing, a creature or two, and most of all SORIN. He's a complete beast, and does everything we want in his +1 alone.
The reason I'd like to try Abzan is just for Abzan Ascendency, and maybe Abzan Charm as well. The enchant just seems broken for aggro. Immediate team pump? All your guys are Doomed Travelers on death? Works excellent in multiples? Oh yeah.
The charm seems strong too, mostly for its ability to put counters on 1-2 guys, as well as being removal. I also love its card draw function. CA is rarely something you'd want to dedicate a full card to in aggro, but is still a nice effect to have access to as a by-product.
Hope you guys like 'em and I'm open to suggestions to improve the videos and, of course, on my playing.
First of all I'd like to thank you for taking time to record these videos! Sadly I haven't been able to really watch them yet (maybe just a minute of video 1 so far), but I'm sure I'll have more time soon, likely today even.
I'm going to give some critique on your list, please keep in mind though that I haven't seen your list played much yet, so all my opinions are based on the list and card choices alone.
Firstly, you need more than 20 lands. With that many 3-drops, 22 seems like the minimum. More likely 23. Also, take out the Radiant Fountains. Drawing one as 1 out of your 3-4 lands in the first few turns can really hurt you, especially given MBA's tendency to dump one B spell after. Plus you really shouldn't need the extra 2-4 life a game all that much if you play correctly, at least not at the cost I mentioned.
Secondly, take out Gurmag Swiftwing. He's simply not strong enough. His first strike is seldom relevant due to his evasion, and you have Boons to keep him alive in combat anyway. And as a 1 power 2-drop, his haste really only makes him a worse Judge's Familiar.
Last but not least I'd definitely say you should pack some actual removal in the main. Crippling Blight is a fine and good card, but sometimes you just want to kill something, at instant speed. Ulcerate is a strong choice, but even Bile Blight or a couple Hero's Downfall would work too (I'd vote 3 removal spells at least, in addition to the Crippling Blights). This is especially true against Rabble Red, the Mirror, and other decks with smallies. Plus, some hard removal in Downfall is great vs green too, as the Blights will only take you so far, aren't actually the great vs Courser (better against other big dudes, or even Elvish Mystic - Courser you just want to kill).
2-0 Unexpected Results combo deck. Simple rout, the combo is fun but just can't race aggro.
2-1 Selesnya Aggro. First game was simple outracing. Second game lost to a resolved Unflinching Courage. Third was somewhat amusing with a double-bestowed Spiteful Returned bumping into a Nyx-Fleece Ram and doing a lot of work in unlikely circumstances.
2-1 Jeskai ( Are we calling W/U/R that, yet? ) Control. The first one he drew the wrong lands to Verdict, and I swamped him. The second game was very, very grindy - I got him down to one life, but he Sphinx'd for a grossly large amount and it was pretty much done. Third game was shorter: Erebos acted as an excellent block to Elixir of Life, and my little guys won handily.
2-0 Mono Black Devotion splash/White. The first game he drew a lot of removal and not many threats - Pain Seer proved remarkably good in keeping the threats coming. The second game felt unfair as he simply got stuck on two lands most of the game.
Observations from play-testing and tonight in general:
I used Bestow much more frequently than I thought I would. Turn four was a Bestow creature on another creature half the time.
Our deck feels less vulnerable to Thoughtseize than most others. Rarely is there a key thing to grab in this deck's opening hand that sets us back more than, say, a random discard would.
Both in playtesting and in matches this deck feels very consistent, versus my experience with Mono Blue which can be much more explosive, but also, at times, have total dud hands.
Boon of Erebos is the trickiest card in this deck. It is difficult to decide whether to use it before damage to kill their creature, after damage to save yours, or on an unblocked as essentially a black Shock.
I look forward to seeing how this does post-rotation!
Nicely done. A couple questions on your list, though I don't know how much you've tested with that 75: Mainly how are the 3 Boons working for you? I've tested with it the first time I ever played MBA (when the card was first released), and I found it pretty meh. However, that fnm if I recall was full of Blood Barons... so yeah. I've been thinking of giving it another try, the main issue of course is vs other aggressive decks, where the life loss, especially in my list, really adds up. I'm still giving the nod to Ulcerate over Bile Blight, but with 23 lands now I might reconsider. And if that's the case I might test with Boon. Most likely it'll be in my sb, but I mostly like it as a pump/combat trick to get through and live through fat blockers, so when I've had it in the past I've never much sided it in over other spells.
Also, do you like Spiteful returned as a 4-of? Again that's what I once did for my list, but eventually went down to 2 and then none, as I really don't like him as a 2-drop. However, I imagine with the amount of Boon of Erebos you're playing he gets better.
On my list, only other changes I've been planning since my last post are -1 Thoughtseize (down to 3, I think that's a better spot, but I could be wrong), with probs the 4th in SB. +1 of either a removal spell (maybe a 1-of), or more likely a second Hall. I also have 3 slots in my sb that used to be Duress, not sure what I plan for them yet though... Might try out Boon, or most likely save them for some sort of "just in case" utility mix. For that I'll have to see the meta.
Yeah... realized that just a moment ago actually. Haha that's what I get for correcting people on rotation. Thanks for the reminder, I thought it got a reprint in m15 for some reason.
EDIT: On the bright side, 3 more slots have just appeared in my sb!
Not very different than I had before. Atm I'm feeling my maindeck is mostly locked, with exceptions in the number of Masters, and the distribution of removal spells. I wouldn't mind fitting in a second Hall of Triumph like I had before updating, but I'm not sure what to cut atm, and I'd like to stay at 23 lands. It's quite possible 22 is correct, but I had too many issues at 21 lands before, and my curve is a tiny, tiny bit higher now. If I do go 22, my last card will likely be another removal spell of some kind.
I'm not sold on Mardu Skullhunter quite yet. At first I thought it would be awesome, but that was assuming I would be playing it along side Brain Maggot as well as TS, and I still just don't like Maggot in aggro (I also probably don't want more than 4 or so 2-drops in my curve anyway). Skullhunter's been good in testing, just not quite as good as Shred-Freak imo. Which is to say, not very good at all, but I haven't played with him enough to really know. Could change to Pain Seer, but I hate the thought of him alongside both TS and Ulcerate (which I think are in to stay).
Master of the Feast is in as a 2-of because I don't want multiples out in many matchups. I hate the drawback, but he's still a great beatstick in any MU, and sometimes a t3 brick wall is just what you need. I like him as a 2-of, though I would probably move him to sb and include a couple more 2-drops if we had better ones tbh.
My sideboard still needs work, and that'll depend on the meta. I want at least 1 Erebos (1 is probably correct), some amount of Duress and a couple more spot removal spells (Downfalls). The Pharika's Cures I probably don't want or need; they were there during testing because I've been deathly afraid of getting out-aggro'd, but I've played a fair few matches vs rabble red without either player sideboarding recently, and it's really not that terrible (I have a winning record by at least a couple games). The idea, of course, is that Festergloom out of the board will be my primary hoser for RDW and other weenie decks. What I'm more worried about is facing an aggressive, like, Azban deck, or something from Temure/Jeskai, with fatter guys. But with Crippling Blight, Marauder, and Downfalls out of the board those shouldn't be bad; I think it's the mirror, and any B/x aggro, that I'm most worried about, as Festergloom does nothing. I may well end up keeping in the Cures for those decks.
Thinking of buying this list, pretty much exactly. Curious your guys thoughts and how this deck matches up post rotation?
You know that half your cards (everything from m14 and RTR block) are rotating out, right? No more Pack Rat, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, or Mutavault, etc. Just letting you know, sooo I wouldn't spend money on any of those cards at this point lol. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying, just checking.
At any rate, last I checked we still weren't allowed to discuss spoilers in standard yet... Guys if I'm reading the wrong announcement or haven't seen an update please, please point me at it, cuz I'd really like to discuss Khans, just don't want to get yelled at by the mods =D
I have an updated list I'll be posting soon. Been testing it on Cockatrice, quite a bit today in particular. It seems strong, if not terribly different than what I had before. But I still count that as a positive sign. Only annoying thing is that our lack of strong 2-drops remains. However, in practice I don't see this being a problem as the majority of the time (at least for me), I'm spending t2 casting (or holding in the case of Ulcerate) multiple 1-drops.
lusiris, I'm very tempted to try out a warrior theme on BW aggro myself, but I just can't get into it right now as I still see no reason to stray from straight mono-black. Or let me rephrase - I feel the upsides of having some strong tribal boosts do not outweigh the benefit of a single color and a similar but less restrictive (and more consistent) gameplan. That's just me though, feeling how I usually feel... Could be wrong.
Couple things I'd like to note for now: Firstly, Ulcerate is much stronger than I've given it credit for. I've played with the card and liked it, but hadn't tested it quite as much a I'd liked to until recently. The card really is great, so long as you don't go overboard (imo 3 MD is quite enough, maybe too many). Still has dead or near-dead matchups, and I'll be kinda sad if I'm right and MUD winks out for now, because Ulcerate is great there... But it's still quite good. And I don't forsee that changing as there are some strong new creatures coming in that I'd LOVE to kill for 1 mana.
Also, Crippling Blight is on the same chain imo. However, where once my list was running 4 I now have 3. 4 May end up being correct though, with the rise of more midrange creature decks and the loss of hexproof/strict UW control. Time and testing will tell.
Are there suitable replacements for Shred Freak, Thrill Kill Assassin, and Radkos Cackler once they rotate out? Those seem like very important low CC cards in this deck.
I'm sure you've seen the spoilers by now, though I haven't bothered to check if we're allowed to discuss them yet. But yes, we're getting perhaps our best 1-drop creature yet. We have some interesting 3-drops as well (one of which had an article on tcgplayer). That creature in particular though, despite being a rare, seems very lackluster.
As for 2-drops, there's at least one I have my eye on, and I can't remember what else. But yeah, there are some strong new prints.
Also, I forgot to report on my previous Saturday event, mostly because I couldn't go, lol. But yeah. I'm excited for Khans =D
Whoops my math is whacky. I only play 22 lands, hasn't been too much of an issue. I agree that I have too many 3 drops, but it's really only been a problem once or twice in playing. Dreg Mangler's haste helps the deck maintain speed. As far as pharika, she so far has been pretty good for me. I've gotten her + mogis maurader out on certain games on the same turn, but i feel like i'm gonna drop her to a one of. Lotleth Troll has been absolutely ridiculous and so far is definitely my mvp. I'm kinda looking for other two drops i can put in, and i'm wondering if pain seer is worth it?
Tbh I'm no longer a fan of Pain Seer, simply because he's not aggressive enough. He's playable for sure, but I wouldn't go more than a 2 or 3-of. The life loss is also quite a thing. Could be just me, but those two factors have become painfully (no pun intended) obvious for me in most matchups I've tried PS in. For one thing, vs control/midrange, he just doesn't pack enough of a punch, and is therefor more vulnerable to last breath. blockers etc. he just doesn't close out the game fast enough. And against aggro, he really just kills us. Again, lacks the power to race whatever the opponent has, and his trigger, while often beneficial if hitting lands/1-drops etc., can just easily spell our end. This is a big problem for my version (in particular because it plays Ulcerate AND Herald/TS), but I think it may be even bigger for BG. Having tried a very similar deck recently, I can say that the life loss is even more problematic, simply because of shocks/Confluence, both of which MUST be played there. In addition, playing duals will invariably slow you down in many games, from A) Scrylands, B) inability/fear to take more damage in an aggro mirror, and C) occasional color-screw. This, plus the fact that once again, Seer just isn't very fast, could easily hurt more than help you. I will almost always play Rakdos Shred-Freak, Thrill-Kill Assassin, or Spiteful Returned before adding in more than 2 Pain Seer, if any. And the more 3-drops you run, the worse he gets in MU's where the race is key.
But he's not at all detrimental enough to keep one from testing him, and you may reach a very different conclusion than I have, especially depending on your meta. My only advice would be to run only a couple, though maybe 3 if you want to try getting a feel for him in (hopefully) fewer games. Just drawing multiples of him early really does suck, although I didn't think at first I would ever feel that way, but it's true.
Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler I would agree are all-stars, especially Mangler. if you're looking for 2-drops, I would again suggest Thrill-Kill Assassin (Shred-Freak isn't easy to cast in BG). Spiteful Returned is also nice. Beyond that, there are a couple green creatures you could try. I myself was running 3 or 4 (can't remember) of Brushstrider, simply because he has 3 power. This is not only strong for combat purposes, but also has great synergy with Varolz, unlike Pain Seer and especially Thrill-Kill (who gives one measly +1/+1 counter through scavenge). Another 2-drop I might suggest trying is Golden Hind. He's a weird choice I know, and I have NOT ever tested with him. But I'd like to, in some G/x aggro deck. He's a 2 power 2-drop, which is playable if not exciting, but if used well his ramp seems legit. Thing is, he can be as aggressive as Pain Seer, but also let your bestows come down a turn sooner, which is huge for BG with herald, and Spiteful Returned if you decide to try him. It's just an idea, though.
I'm still honestly very much on the Mono-Black-version-of-this-deck train. I never like playing another color unless I need to, and I really don't think we need to. BG is cool though, I'm just mainly biased because we're losing almost all of the creatures that make it worth playing, very soon.
Anyway, like I said before I'm almost certainly playing Black Aggro in some form tomorrow in a local event, and I'll report back when I can. My list will I THINK be the same as I posted a few things above, with a few changes under consideration:
1. Maaaaybe take out the 2-of Spiteful Returned. I meant it when I said the card was good, and I do need more 2-drops. But with 12 1-drops it's possible I'll be fine just packing a couple more removal/utility spells, or just Thrill-Kills. Could also be Brain Maggot, which I'll say more about.
2. SB. Forealz.
3. Profit.
4. My final note is that it's possible I'll be changing my deck up more than I currently plan to. A little while ago I tested a version on Mono Black Aggro that was very heavy on the disruption. It played Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot and even a couple MB Duress, along with a small removal package. It was very weird and played surprisingly differently from my more stock version, but there are a couple points to note. For one, it was doing just as well if not better, online at least. And two, it lacked M15 options, and was VERY far from ideal, as at the time I was still very new to the archetype.
With that said, it was very fun to play. The idea was of course to remove anything from my opponent's hand that could either kill me, or stop me from killing them. I would THEN, or simultaneously, begin the beatdown, often knowing I was almost totally safe from retaliation. The reason it was kinda different was that it could afford to play far less aggressively during the first few turns of a game, and just focus on TS'ing/Duressing/Maggoting away all their removal and threats, which generally meant that I could kill them with almost ANY creature(s) I then landed, even if it was slightly slower. My line of play would of course depend on the MU and my opening hand, and often of course I would just play all my guys and bring the beats.
I mention this version because of how neat I found it, and it may well be something I play again tomorrow (or a combination, as the two decks aren't really THAT different). It did have a small problem with bad topdecking, but only slightly more than usual for an aggro deck. I'm definitely revisiting it sometime soon at least, mainly because of certain spoiled 2-drop that I might test out alongside Maggot and TS... For better or for worse lol.
Anyway, that's all I have for now. Guess I just had some typing to get out of my system haha.
Hey all, I'm currently testing a Bg aggro deck that splashes for sideboard golgari charm, pharika, lotleth troll, and varolz. Before you throw up at the idea of trying to play varolz competitively let me tell you he works so well with all of the one drops this deck has and has definitely won me some games in the little testing i've done so far. Pharika I've seen less of in my testing but i feel like a 3 mana 5/5 indestructible that can be active by turn 4 is worth it, and her active can be used as psuedo removal/good against mono green. Anyway, heres my list:
Let me know what you think, gonna be testing with it a lot
Actually, that's very close to a list I played in an SCG Open (I think) a month or two ago. My list had no Herald/LBZ/Master, but Varolz was indeed a house.
One thing though, are you really playing 26 lands or is that a mistake? I'd say 23, maybe 24 at most. Also, I've tested with Pharika and didn't like the card. Not terribly hard to turn on, just not hugely effective in its active ability. Otherwise I'd say have a few less 3-drops, but I like it for the most part. I DON'T like that Varolz/Dreg Mangler are going away though
Hey, it's been a week since I said I'd post about my fnm lol. Sorry, been busy.
There isn't too much to report. There was a pretty big turnout, so 5 rounds instead of 4, and I went 3-2, which still got me prizes but wasn't that great. Meta continued to be full of Monsters and U/W control, which isn't bad really, I just haven't bothered to change my list much to combat it (I have Duress/Erebos etc. for control in sb, but I think I only ever brought in 1 card vs. monsters).
Still, my deck played well, against much the same field, just didn't go quite as well. I'm probably playing Standard on Saturday for a charity event; if I do, and if I play Mono-black Aggro, I will post results/changes.
I'm excited for Khans, mostly just on principle, however there is at least one spoiled card so far I'd like to test. But that will have to wait lol.
Hey all, very happy to see this thread continuing to get love. Happily, I see that keeping up after rotation as Black Aggro is keeping most of its key pushers post-rotation.
I haven't been playing magic as religiously as usual lately, because work. But when I do play, it's with this archetype. And with M15 I believe we got some very nice addition. Namely, Crippling Blight and Ulcerate. These were cards I thought would only be limited-playable, but I decided to test with both on mtgo for a bit. Turns out, for my list at least these were very nice bonuses, in that, they both do exactly what I want in a removal/psuedo-removal spell, for just 1cmc.
Crippling Blight is really a great card for black aggro, though I'm not sure what other archetype would want to play it lol. For just 1 mana, we generally get to alpha strike (especially vs monsters and the like). It also weakens the creature, and sometimes that small loss of damage for your opponent can mean a win... I know a couple times in my last fnm it mattered simply because I could then finish the x/4 with an Ulcerate lol. And of course, it's another 1cmc kill spell for Master of Waves, a t2 Pack Rat, and most importantly any x/1 in an aggro mirror. Dead against control of course, but then it really is my only dead card against them (Ulcerate too, but at least that kills Mutavault).
Ulcerate, I don't want 4-of. At least not MD, and SB I'd much rather have Bile Blight/Price/Pharika's Cure/etc.. The life loss is a thing, and not every creature has 3 toughness lol. However, it does what it does very efficiently; kills something of small or medium size. For 1 mana. At instant speed. The -3/-3 is also preferable to a burn spell for all my x/1's as well, as it means forcing through a Courser instead of 2-for-1'ing myself on it out of desperation. And I'd trade 3 life any day for a very tempo-oriented out to Goblin Rabblemaster.
The best thing about those two cards from M15 are how well they work together, and in conjunction with Thoughtseize. This gives us THREE 1cmc removal spells, and at least two of them are are relevant at any stage of the game at any given time. When combined with a curve that can be very low and punishing to our opponents, I love what M15 gave us, and I would highly recommend at least testing with those two cards to anyone who hasn't. It's simply a very good thing knowing that every removal spell in my main costs only 1 mana to play, and I love it.
Like I said, I'm sure my list isn't ideal, and I'm still tweaking stuff, rather slowly because I haven't had much time. At present I'm still torn between 21 and 22 lands, though I'm still set on no more than 3 Mutavaults. I'm still at 21 simply because I know how efficiently I can operate on list 2 or 3 mana. With that said though, sometimes I just like to curve out, even up to 4 or 5, and with several 3-drops in my deck I never like getting stuck on just 2 lands, especially if one's a Vault.
My other consideration is Shred-Freak or Thrill-Kill. I'm usually on the Thrill-Kill plan because it really is just a better card. But in my list, I want all the quick-hitting threats I can get, and I'm able to mitigate the 1 toughness issue of Shred-Freak with all the cheap removal, except vs burn of course. Shred-Freak won out for me simply because it has haste. It also plays very well with Hall of Triumph, and sometimes (though very rarely) the extra devotion is relevant for granting a Mutavault intimidate via Marauder.
EDIT: Of course Pain Seer is the other obvious candidate for a 2-drop. I don't want him because of how heavy I already am on life loss. Plus, he's not very aggressive by himself. I'd definitely pick Thrill-Kill Assassin over him for my list. If Seer were a 3/2 or even 3/1 though things would probably be different.
Hall of Triumph is another very good card for us that's there to stay in my list, thought I might drop it down to 1 copy to include a 4th Marauder (I fully agree that 4 is almost always correct, I just haven't decided what to cut yet). It could also be the 3rd Spiteful Returned that I remove.
Anyway, that's my 10,000 cents for now lol. I'll be playing at least most of that list tomorrow at fnm and I'll post results. Last week I went 3-1 (usually it's 4-0 however), only losing to MUD, which is funny because I still think it was one of my best match-ups of the night. I got g1, but g2 he got a great draw and I mulled into zero removal spells, which is not where I want to be against them. G3 was close but he got me. For anyone interested my meta is heavy on all varieties of R/G/x Monsters, as well as U/W control and some other control varients. There's little aggro besides the occasional WW, which is too bad because I'd like to test more against RDW/Rabble Red. Dunno if that MU is bad or ok, but it's scary either way.
Hey all! First time posting in this thread, and I have to say this archetype intrigues me. I was working on pretty much the same thing (BW enchantments/constellation/drain) about a day before I say this in the forums, which seems to be a trend for me lol. Like seriously, this is about the 3rd or so time that exact same sequence has happened to me haha. But I'm not complaining; I love the idea, and my list started quite differently actually, at least in card choices, if not role.
One thing though, does anyone experimenting with this strategy have a recent decklist to share??? I'm curious as to what people are coming up with, and the only list I found was from the thread owner.
Here's something very close to what I started with, but it's still very rough and I'm revisiting it tonight with quite a few changes in mind:
I've played literally 1 match on mtgo with this so far lol. Dunno why, it was fun to play. I won, but against some weird U/B midrange brew. But again I'm planning on picking it up again and making a bunch of changes.
First off, I liked how the deck could take a rather aggressive role with Gnarled Scarhide, but I think I like the control/drain approach much more. I also think it's better for this, personally. So I'll probably cut Scarhide. Another cut might well be the 4 Grim Guardians. Even thought my list is and will continue to be loaded with enchantments, he just seems underwhelming. He certainly was in the 2 games I played, and though that's barely a thing, my gut also says he isn't that great. But I'm keeping him in for now I think, until I test more.
Also: The sheep were actually great. The U/B deck I played was more aggressive g2, and so I at least got to see a bit of the sheep in their prime. Their blocking ability vs aggro is (obviously) excellent, and that plus the lifegain makes a card I still think I want maindeck, as a 4-of even. I noticed that I incurred a lot of life loss, between UWC, Confluence/shocks, Orzhov Charm, and Coinsmith's active. The sheep helped keep me alive to an amazing degree.
The other thing about the sheep is that it does NOT have defender. This is very relevant, and allows various cards that fit in to this archetype anyway to give Nyx-Fleece Ram some offensive capability. Gnarled Scarhide is probs coming out, but I'm gunna try some amount of Herald of Torment, or perhaps even Godsend, in the main.
I like my removal package, so just a couple other things of note. I'm probably cutting the River Trawler (or adding more lol, haven't decided, but I feel he's not an in-between card). I might go up to a 4th Connections. And I think I'll replace 1 Confluence with another basic; I don't feel I need 3, and I don't like losing more life than I have to.
Erebos maindeck was great. I played with him as a 3-of even in a mono-black aggro list recently, and even there he worked well. Thing is in this kinda list, he'll barely ever be a creature (if at all), but we can get so much more use out of his draw ability. Plus, his anti-lifegain clause is really helpful against any deck with lifegain (surprise!), as the version I'm building doesn't kill very quickly. I think I'm at least adding in a 2nd one, probably instead of a 4th connections, but maybe in addition to.
I'm also probably going to try a Heliod in the main. The vigilance isn't amazing here, but it's still relevant if we have Master or any enchanted creature to swing with. Mainly, his ability to make a 2/1 at 4 mana whenever I like is pretty huge vs control, or anything really, as this kinda deck likes to stall out on board. And of course, the 2/1's a enchantment creatures, and therefor will trigger constellation.
Phew, I think that's all I have atm, sorry for the wall of text! I'll try to post an updated decklist as soon as I have one, hopefully with some more testing this time.
I'm also currently just testing 2 whips in the SB as a way to fight Burn/Aggro. They are by no means permanent yet. If I find out I don't need them, they will be replaced. With what, I'm not sure yet.
Fyi, I like this list a lot, mainly in the fact that it plays Mogis's Warhound. Card seems legit with bestow for a mere 3. I like the thought of combining that with evasive threats like either demon, or LBZ. I think it'll also solve the problem I often have with all our x/1's getting rapidly outclassed by Coursers or even elvish mystics
EDIT: Btw, is anyone else interested in still playing Cackler on top of Hero/Scarhide? 1-drops make aggro run wild, and we have many ways to pump them later on (bestow) without losing any value. Problem of course is what to cut...
I'm not really on B Aggro right now, but I doubt that'll last long...If and when I play it again I'm probably going to try maybe 2 cacklers in addition to everything else, or maybe 3-3 with scarhide.
I see what you're saying, and I agree that I'd rather have my opponent kill a Brian Maggot than one of my threats. However, except for certain scenarios against Gr and UW, why not just play another threat? (At least in the mainboard). Consider the example against burn: You spend 2 mana to play a 1/1 on t2, more likely 3-4 to develop your board a bit more first. You remove a card from their hand. They then spend 2 mana to kill it and get their card back. In this case, you've done nothing but cause a tempo loss on BOTH sides. True, if your 1 or 2-drops are still alive, you might get to beat in for 2-3 more damage that turn. But burn spends their early game vs. aggro (us) removing our creatures anyway. And if they have Firedancer out, the only thing they're doing is taking 1 more damage than they normally would by killing the maggot instead of an attacking 2/1 or 2/2.
My point is that I'd much rather simply play another 2-drop threat than brain maggots. Let's not forget that by playing some number him, we're reducing our threat count by that number anyway. We're paying 2 mana to take a card from them, and they pay 2 mana to get it back. Or they could just play a wrath they've drawn/scryd into, and cause a large loss of value on our part. Or if they have a removal-light hand (like, 1 kill spell) they could just magma jet/bile blight the maggot in response to the trigger, wasting no time at all. Or they can just kill our threats first, then worry about our 1/1.
The card certainly does stuff. I just don't think we currently have much of a way to profit from it in standard (like playable death triggers). Don't get me wrong, I like the card, so I'd like someone to prove me wrong about this! It's just like I said; I'd have to see it played in Standard to see how we can actually profit from it.
As for Brain Maggot, when I first saw the card I thought "Oh great! A reprint of a good card, but much, much worse!". And it is much worse, although it does only cost 1B, not BW.
Woops! I was (obviously) thinking of something else. I also thought that "something" was a 2/1 lol. Thanks!
That aside, I think we'll have some decisions to make regarding sb slots devoted to discard/hand disruption. The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to doubt the power of Brain Maggot, at least in the meta as we know it. Seems pretty bad vs. any deck playing removal. Against burn, it's miserable. Same with MBD (though of course we wouldn't bring it in against them). I should clarify; I see no reason to play it over either Duress OR Thoughtseize, in anywhere. However, I often find problems simply filling my last 2-3 sb slots with black aggro. While I often jam them with Dark Betrayals or something, I find I usually don't need them. Brain Maggot could maybe fill those slots, at least vs. Colossal Gruul, where it seems at it's best. But there are other situations where maggot can shine, I'm sure. particularly against anything playing a low instant-speed removal count, like current U/W. Say you maggot their hand (it's a verb now), and see their only removal is D-sphere, verdict. Take their Verdict and they could very well die before finding another answer, or being able to play the one they had. I still feel it's a risky play either way though, with all the scry in the format; they could easily have another verdict on top, in which case you're spent a turn AND a card doing pretty much nothing. And of course, last breath is a card...
Overall, I think Brain Maggot is a card I'd have to see doing well before I think it can do well. I'm not really a fan at present. But it does pair well with Thoughtseize itself, so we'll have to wait and see.
Personally I don't like this deck to curve up to 4 with DDemon. I mean, it really already does with bestow, but then those cards are much more versatile. But I'll be the first to admit I've only tested with Dessy for a few odd rounds.
As for Brain Maggot, when I first saw the card I thought "Oh great! A reprint of a good card, but much, much worse!". And it is much worse, although it does only cost 1B, not BW. However the more I think about it, I think it still miiiiight find a home in the SB against Gruul (a deck with little removal - take their Domri from their hand and they have a huge problem, especially if you follow up with LBZ). Also, it seems great against mono U, who has even fewer ways to remove it, and you can always TAKE one of those ways away from them. Or, ya know, a Thassa, Master of Waves... My main issue with the card is of course that it's not very aggressive, but at least it can still pull some weight with bestow or Marauder!
The reason I'd like to try Abzan is just for Abzan Ascendency, and maybe Abzan Charm as well. The enchant just seems broken for aggro. Immediate team pump? All your guys are Doomed Travelers on death? Works excellent in multiples? Oh yeah.
The charm seems strong too, mostly for its ability to put counters on 1-2 guys, as well as being removal. I also love its card draw function. CA is rarely something you'd want to dedicate a full card to in aggro, but is still a nice effect to have access to as a by-product.
Thoughts on this?
First of all I'd like to thank you for taking time to record these videos!
I'm going to give some critique on your list, please keep in mind though that I haven't seen your list played much yet, so all my opinions are based on the list and card choices alone.
Firstly, you need more than 20 lands. With that many 3-drops, 22 seems like the minimum. More likely 23. Also, take out the Radiant Fountains. Drawing one as 1 out of your 3-4 lands in the first few turns can really hurt you, especially given MBA's tendency to dump one B spell after. Plus you really shouldn't need the extra 2-4 life a game all that much if you play correctly, at least not at the cost I mentioned.
Secondly, take out Gurmag Swiftwing. He's simply not strong enough. His first strike is seldom relevant due to his evasion, and you have Boons to keep him alive in combat anyway. And as a 1 power 2-drop, his haste really only makes him a worse Judge's Familiar.
Last but not least I'd definitely say you should pack some actual removal in the main. Crippling Blight is a fine and good card, but sometimes you just want to kill something, at instant speed. Ulcerate is a strong choice, but even Bile Blight or a couple Hero's Downfall would work too (I'd vote 3 removal spells at least, in addition to the Crippling Blights). This is especially true against Rabble Red, the Mirror, and other decks with smallies. Plus, some hard removal in Downfall is great vs green too, as the Blights will only take you so far, aren't actually the great vs Courser (better against other big dudes, or even Elvish Mystic - Courser you just want to kill).
Hope that helps. Keep up the playing!
Nicely done. A couple questions on your list, though I don't know how much you've tested with that 75: Mainly how are the 3 Boons working for you? I've tested with it the first time I ever played MBA (when the card was first released), and I found it pretty meh. However, that fnm if I recall was full of Blood Barons... so yeah. I've been thinking of giving it another try, the main issue of course is vs other aggressive decks, where the life loss, especially in my list, really adds up. I'm still giving the nod to Ulcerate over Bile Blight, but with 23 lands now I might reconsider. And if that's the case I might test with Boon. Most likely it'll be in my sb, but I mostly like it as a pump/combat trick to get through and live through fat blockers, so when I've had it in the past I've never much sided it in over other spells.
Also, do you like Spiteful returned as a 4-of? Again that's what I once did for my list, but eventually went down to 2 and then none, as I really don't like him as a 2-drop. However, I imagine with the amount of Boon of Erebos you're playing he gets better.
On my list, only other changes I've been planning since my last post are -1 Thoughtseize (down to 3, I think that's a better spot, but I could be wrong), with probs the 4th in SB. +1 of either a removal spell (maybe a 1-of), or more likely a second Hall. I also have 3 slots in my sb that used to be Duress, not sure what I plan for them yet though... Might try out Boon, or most likely save them for some sort of "just in case" utility mix. For that I'll have to see the meta.
Yeah... realized that just a moment ago actually. Haha that's what I get for correcting people on rotation. Thanks for the reminder, I thought it got a reprint in m15 for some reason.
EDIT: On the bright side, 3 more slots have just appeared in my sb!
Here's the list I've been testing most lately:
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Tormented Hero
4 Mardu Skullhunter
4 Herald of Torment
2 Master of the Feast
4 Mogis's Marauder
3 Crippling Blight
4 Thoughtseize
3 Ulcerate
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Pharika's Cure
2 Despise
3 Duress
3 Festergloom
Not very different than I had before. Atm I'm feeling my maindeck is mostly locked, with exceptions in the number of Masters, and the distribution of removal spells. I wouldn't mind fitting in a second Hall of Triumph like I had before updating, but I'm not sure what to cut atm, and I'd like to stay at 23 lands. It's quite possible 22 is correct, but I had too many issues at 21 lands before, and my curve is a tiny, tiny bit higher now. If I do go 22, my last card will likely be another removal spell of some kind.
I'm not sold on Mardu Skullhunter quite yet. At first I thought it would be awesome, but that was assuming I would be playing it along side Brain Maggot as well as TS, and I still just don't like Maggot in aggro (I also probably don't want more than 4 or so 2-drops in my curve anyway). Skullhunter's been good in testing, just not quite as good as Shred-Freak imo. Which is to say, not very good at all, but I haven't played with him enough to really know. Could change to Pain Seer, but I hate the thought of him alongside both TS and Ulcerate (which I think are in to stay).
Master of the Feast is in as a 2-of because I don't want multiples out in many matchups. I hate the drawback, but he's still a great beatstick in any MU, and sometimes a t3 brick wall is just what you need. I like him as a 2-of, though I would probably move him to sb and include a couple more 2-drops if we had better ones tbh.
My sideboard still needs work, and that'll depend on the meta. I want at least 1 Erebos (1 is probably correct), some amount of Duress and a couple more spot removal spells (Downfalls). The Pharika's Cures I probably don't want or need; they were there during testing because I've been deathly afraid of getting out-aggro'd, but I've played a fair few matches vs rabble red without either player sideboarding recently, and it's really not that terrible (I have a winning record by at least a couple games). The idea, of course, is that Festergloom out of the board will be my primary hoser for RDW and other weenie decks. What I'm more worried about is facing an aggressive, like, Azban deck, or something from Temure/Jeskai, with fatter guys. But with Crippling Blight, Marauder, and Downfalls out of the board those shouldn't be bad; I think it's the mirror, and any B/x aggro, that I'm most worried about, as Festergloom does nothing. I may well end up keeping in the Cures for those decks.
You know that half your cards (everything from m14 and RTR block) are rotating out, right? No more Pack Rat, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, or Mutavault, etc. Just letting you know, sooo I wouldn't spend money on any of those cards at this point lol. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying, just checking.
At any rate, last I checked we still weren't allowed to discuss spoilers in standard yet... Guys if I'm reading the wrong announcement or haven't seen an update please, please point me at it, cuz I'd really like to discuss Khans, just don't want to get yelled at by the mods =D
I have an updated list I'll be posting soon. Been testing it on Cockatrice, quite a bit today in particular. It seems strong, if not terribly different than what I had before. But I still count that as a positive sign. Only annoying thing is that our lack of strong 2-drops remains. However, in practice I don't see this being a problem as the majority of the time (at least for me), I'm spending t2 casting (or holding in the case of Ulcerate) multiple 1-drops.
lusiris, I'm very tempted to try out a warrior theme on BW aggro myself, but I just can't get into it right now as I still see no reason to stray from straight mono-black. Or let me rephrase - I feel the upsides of having some strong tribal boosts do not outweigh the benefit of a single color and a similar but less restrictive (and more consistent) gameplan. That's just me though, feeling how I usually feel... Could be wrong.
Couple things I'd like to note for now: Firstly, Ulcerate is much stronger than I've given it credit for. I've played with the card and liked it, but hadn't tested it quite as much a I'd liked to until recently. The card really is great, so long as you don't go overboard (imo 3 MD is quite enough, maybe too many). Still has dead or near-dead matchups, and I'll be kinda sad if I'm right and MUD winks out for now, because Ulcerate is great there... But it's still quite good. And I don't forsee that changing as there are some strong new creatures coming in that I'd LOVE to kill for 1 mana.
Also, Crippling Blight is on the same chain imo. However, where once my list was running 4 I now have 3. 4 May end up being correct though, with the rise of more midrange creature decks and the loss of hexproof/strict UW control. Time and testing will tell.
I'm sure you've seen the spoilers by now, though I haven't bothered to check if we're allowed to discuss them yet. But yes, we're getting perhaps our best 1-drop creature yet. We have some interesting 3-drops as well (one of which had an article on tcgplayer). That creature in particular though, despite being a rare, seems very lackluster.
As for 2-drops, there's at least one I have my eye on, and I can't remember what else. But yeah, there are some strong new prints.
Also, I forgot to report on my previous Saturday event, mostly because I couldn't go, lol. But yeah. I'm excited for Khans =D
Tbh I'm no longer a fan of Pain Seer, simply because he's not aggressive enough. He's playable for sure, but I wouldn't go more than a 2 or 3-of. The life loss is also quite a thing. Could be just me, but those two factors have become painfully (no pun intended) obvious for me in most matchups I've tried PS in. For one thing, vs control/midrange, he just doesn't pack enough of a punch, and is therefor more vulnerable to last breath. blockers etc. he just doesn't close out the game fast enough. And against aggro, he really just kills us. Again, lacks the power to race whatever the opponent has, and his trigger, while often beneficial if hitting lands/1-drops etc., can just easily spell our end. This is a big problem for my version (in particular because it plays Ulcerate AND Herald/TS), but I think it may be even bigger for BG. Having tried a very similar deck recently, I can say that the life loss is even more problematic, simply because of shocks/Confluence, both of which MUST be played there. In addition, playing duals will invariably slow you down in many games, from A) Scrylands, B) inability/fear to take more damage in an aggro mirror, and C) occasional color-screw. This, plus the fact that once again, Seer just isn't very fast, could easily hurt more than help you. I will almost always play Rakdos Shred-Freak, Thrill-Kill Assassin, or Spiteful Returned before adding in more than 2 Pain Seer, if any. And the more 3-drops you run, the worse he gets in MU's where the race is key.
But he's not at all detrimental enough to keep one from testing him, and you may reach a very different conclusion than I have, especially depending on your meta. My only advice would be to run only a couple, though maybe 3 if you want to try getting a feel for him in (hopefully) fewer games. Just drawing multiples of him early really does suck, although I didn't think at first I would ever feel that way, but it's true.
Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler I would agree are all-stars, especially Mangler. if you're looking for 2-drops, I would again suggest Thrill-Kill Assassin (Shred-Freak isn't easy to cast in BG). Spiteful Returned is also nice. Beyond that, there are a couple green creatures you could try. I myself was running 3 or 4 (can't remember) of Brushstrider, simply because he has 3 power. This is not only strong for combat purposes, but also has great synergy with Varolz, unlike Pain Seer and especially Thrill-Kill (who gives one measly +1/+1 counter through scavenge). Another 2-drop I might suggest trying is Golden Hind. He's a weird choice I know, and I have NOT ever tested with him. But I'd like to, in some G/x aggro deck. He's a 2 power 2-drop, which is playable if not exciting, but if used well his ramp seems legit. Thing is, he can be as aggressive as Pain Seer, but also let your bestows come down a turn sooner, which is huge for BG with herald, and Spiteful Returned if you decide to try him. It's just an idea, though.
I'm still honestly very much on the Mono-Black-version-of-this-deck train. I never like playing another color unless I need to, and I really don't think we need to. BG is cool though, I'm just mainly biased because we're losing almost all of the creatures that make it worth playing, very soon.
Anyway, like I said before I'm almost certainly playing Black Aggro in some form tomorrow in a local event, and I'll report back when I can. My list will I THINK be the same as I posted a few things above, with a few changes under consideration:
1. Maaaaybe take out the 2-of Spiteful Returned. I meant it when I said the card was good, and I do need more 2-drops. But with 12 1-drops it's possible I'll be fine just packing a couple more removal/utility spells, or just Thrill-Kills. Could also be Brain Maggot, which I'll say more about.
2. SB. Forealz.
3. Profit.
4. My final note is that it's possible I'll be changing my deck up more than I currently plan to. A little while ago I tested a version on Mono Black Aggro that was very heavy on the disruption. It played Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot and even a couple MB Duress, along with a small removal package. It was very weird and played surprisingly differently from my more stock version, but there are a couple points to note. For one, it was doing just as well if not better, online at least. And two, it lacked M15 options, and was VERY far from ideal, as at the time I was still very new to the archetype.
With that said, it was very fun to play. The idea was of course to remove anything from my opponent's hand that could either kill me, or stop me from killing them. I would THEN, or simultaneously, begin the beatdown, often knowing I was almost totally safe from retaliation. The reason it was kinda different was that it could afford to play far less aggressively during the first few turns of a game, and just focus on TS'ing/Duressing/Maggoting away all their removal and threats, which generally meant that I could kill them with almost ANY creature(s) I then landed, even if it was slightly slower. My line of play would of course depend on the MU and my opening hand, and often of course I would just play all my guys and bring the beats.
I mention this version because of how neat I found it, and it may well be something I play again tomorrow (or a combination, as the two decks aren't really THAT different). It did have a small problem with bad topdecking, but only slightly more than usual for an aggro deck. I'm definitely revisiting it sometime soon at least, mainly because of certain spoiled 2-drop that I might test out alongside Maggot and TS... For better or for worse lol.
Anyway, that's all I have for now. Guess I just had some typing to get out of my system haha.
Actually, that's very close to a list I played in an SCG Open (I think) a month or two ago. My list had no Herald/LBZ/Master, but Varolz was indeed a house.
One thing though, are you really playing 26 lands or is that a mistake? I'd say 23, maybe 24 at most. Also, I've tested with Pharika and didn't like the card. Not terribly hard to turn on, just not hugely effective in its active ability. Otherwise I'd say have a few less 3-drops, but I like it for the most part. I DON'T like that Varolz/Dreg Mangler are going away though
There isn't too much to report. There was a pretty big turnout, so 5 rounds instead of 4, and I went 3-2, which still got me prizes but wasn't that great. Meta continued to be full of Monsters and U/W control, which isn't bad really, I just haven't bothered to change my list much to combat it (I have Duress/Erebos etc. for control in sb, but I think I only ever brought in 1 card vs. monsters).
Still, my deck played well, against much the same field, just didn't go quite as well. I'm probably playing Standard on Saturday for a charity event; if I do, and if I play Mono-black Aggro, I will post results/changes.
I'm excited for Khans, mostly just on principle, however there is at least one spoiled card so far I'd like to test. But that will have to wait lol.
I haven't been playing magic as religiously as usual lately, because work. But when I do play, it's with this archetype. And with M15 I believe we got some very nice addition. Namely, Crippling Blight and Ulcerate. These were cards I thought would only be limited-playable, but I decided to test with both on mtgo for a bit. Turns out, for my list at least these were very nice bonuses, in that, they both do exactly what I want in a removal/psuedo-removal spell, for just 1cmc.
Here's my list (still evolving):
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
3 Spiteful Returned
4 Herald of Torment
3 Mogis's Marauder
4 Crippling Blight
4 Thoughtseize
3 Ulcerate
2 Hall of Triumph
18 Swamp
3 Mutavault
My Sideboard is still a WIP (fairly generic atm).
Crippling Blight is really a great card for black aggro, though I'm not sure what other archetype would want to play it lol. For just 1 mana, we generally get to alpha strike (especially vs monsters and the like). It also weakens the creature, and sometimes that small loss of damage for your opponent can mean a win... I know a couple times in my last fnm it mattered simply because I could then finish the x/4 with an Ulcerate lol. And of course, it's another 1cmc kill spell for Master of Waves, a t2 Pack Rat, and most importantly any x/1 in an aggro mirror. Dead against control of course, but then it really is my only dead card against them (Ulcerate too, but at least that kills Mutavault).
Ulcerate, I don't want 4-of. At least not MD, and SB I'd much rather have Bile Blight/Price/Pharika's Cure/etc.. The life loss is a thing, and not every creature has 3 toughness lol. However, it does what it does very efficiently; kills something of small or medium size. For 1 mana. At instant speed. The -3/-3 is also preferable to a burn spell for all my x/1's as well, as it means forcing through a Courser instead of 2-for-1'ing myself on it out of desperation. And I'd trade 3 life any day for a very tempo-oriented out to Goblin Rabblemaster.
The best thing about those two cards from M15 are how well they work together, and in conjunction with Thoughtseize. This gives us THREE 1cmc removal spells, and at least two of them are are relevant at any stage of the game at any given time. When combined with a curve that can be very low and punishing to our opponents, I love what M15 gave us, and I would highly recommend at least testing with those two cards to anyone who hasn't. It's simply a very good thing knowing that every removal spell in my main costs only 1 mana to play, and I love it.
Like I said, I'm sure my list isn't ideal, and I'm still tweaking stuff, rather slowly because I haven't had much time. At present I'm still torn between 21 and 22 lands, though I'm still set on no more than 3 Mutavaults. I'm still at 21 simply because I know how efficiently I can operate on list 2 or 3 mana. With that said though, sometimes I just like to curve out, even up to 4 or 5, and with several 3-drops in my deck I never like getting stuck on just 2 lands, especially if one's a Vault.
My other consideration is Shred-Freak or Thrill-Kill. I'm usually on the Thrill-Kill plan because it really is just a better card. But in my list, I want all the quick-hitting threats I can get, and I'm able to mitigate the 1 toughness issue of Shred-Freak with all the cheap removal, except vs burn of course. Shred-Freak won out for me simply because it has haste. It also plays very well with Hall of Triumph, and sometimes (though very rarely) the extra devotion is relevant for granting a Mutavault intimidate via Marauder.
EDIT: Of course Pain Seer is the other obvious candidate for a 2-drop. I don't want him because of how heavy I already am on life loss. Plus, he's not very aggressive by himself. I'd definitely pick Thrill-Kill Assassin over him for my list. If Seer were a 3/2 or even 3/1 though things would probably be different.
Hall of Triumph is another very good card for us that's there to stay in my list, thought I might drop it down to 1 copy to include a 4th Marauder (I fully agree that 4 is almost always correct, I just haven't decided what to cut yet). It could also be the 3rd Spiteful Returned that I remove.
Anyway, that's my 10,000 cents for now lol. I'll be playing at least most of that list tomorrow at fnm and I'll post results. Last week I went 3-1 (usually it's 4-0 however), only losing to MUD, which is funny because I still think it was one of my best match-ups of the night. I got g1, but g2 he got a great draw and I mulled into zero removal spells, which is not where I want to be against them. G3 was close but he got me. For anyone interested my meta is heavy on all varieties of R/G/x Monsters, as well as U/W control and some other control varients. There's little aggro besides the occasional WW, which is too bad because I'd like to test more against RDW/Rabble Red. Dunno if that MU is bad or ok, but it's scary either way.
One thing though, does anyone experimenting with this strategy have a recent decklist to share??? I'm curious as to what people are coming up with, and the only list I found was from the thread owner.
Here's something very close to what I started with, but it's still very rough and I'm revisiting it tonight with quite a few changes in mind:
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Grim Guardian
3 Master of the Feast
1 Odunos River trawler
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Devour Flesh
2 Orzhov Charm
4 Banishing Light
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Underworld Connections
4 Godless Shrine
3 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Silence
9 Swamp
5 Plains
I've played literally 1 match on mtgo with this so far lol. Dunno why, it was fun to play. I won, but against some weird U/B midrange brew. But again I'm planning on picking it up again and making a bunch of changes.
First off, I liked how the deck could take a rather aggressive role with Gnarled Scarhide, but I think I like the control/drain approach much more. I also think it's better for this, personally. So I'll probably cut Scarhide. Another cut might well be the 4 Grim Guardians. Even thought my list is and will continue to be loaded with enchantments, he just seems underwhelming. He certainly was in the 2 games I played, and though that's barely a thing, my gut also says he isn't that great. But I'm keeping him in for now I think, until I test more.
Also: The sheep were actually great. The U/B deck I played was more aggressive g2, and so I at least got to see a bit of the sheep in their prime. Their blocking ability vs aggro is (obviously) excellent, and that plus the lifegain makes a card I still think I want maindeck, as a 4-of even. I noticed that I incurred a lot of life loss, between UWC, Confluence/shocks, Orzhov Charm, and Coinsmith's active. The sheep helped keep me alive to an amazing degree.
The other thing about the sheep is that it does NOT have defender. This is very relevant, and allows various cards that fit in to this archetype anyway to give Nyx-Fleece Ram some offensive capability. Gnarled Scarhide is probs coming out, but I'm gunna try some amount of Herald of Torment, or perhaps even Godsend, in the main.
I like my removal package, so just a couple other things of note. I'm probably cutting the River Trawler (or adding more lol, haven't decided, but I feel he's not an in-between card). I might go up to a 4th Connections. And I think I'll replace 1 Confluence with another basic; I don't feel I need 3, and I don't like losing more life than I have to.
Erebos maindeck was great. I played with him as a 3-of even in a mono-black aggro list recently, and even there he worked well. Thing is in this kinda list, he'll barely ever be a creature (if at all), but we can get so much more use out of his draw ability. Plus, his anti-lifegain clause is really helpful against any deck with lifegain (surprise!), as the version I'm building doesn't kill very quickly. I think I'm at least adding in a 2nd one, probably instead of a 4th connections, but maybe in addition to.
I'm also probably going to try a Heliod in the main. The vigilance isn't amazing here, but it's still relevant if we have Master or any enchanted creature to swing with. Mainly, his ability to make a 2/1 at 4 mana whenever I like is pretty huge vs control, or anything really, as this kinda deck likes to stall out on board. And of course, the 2/1's a enchantment creatures, and therefor will trigger constellation.
Phew, I think that's all I have atm, sorry for the wall of text! I'll try to post an updated decklist as soon as I have one, hopefully with some more testing this time.
Fyi, I like this list a lot, mainly in the fact that it plays Mogis's Warhound. Card seems legit with bestow for a mere 3. I like the thought of combining that with evasive threats like either demon, or LBZ. I think it'll also solve the problem I often have with all our x/1's getting rapidly outclassed by Coursers or even elvish mystics
EDIT: Btw, is anyone else interested in still playing Cackler on top of Hero/Scarhide? 1-drops make aggro run wild, and we have many ways to pump them later on (bestow) without losing any value. Problem of course is what to cut...
I'm not really on B Aggro right now, but I doubt that'll last long...If and when I play it again I'm probably going to try maybe 2 cacklers in addition to everything else, or maybe 3-3 with scarhide.
My point is that I'd much rather simply play another 2-drop threat than brain maggots. Let's not forget that by playing some number him, we're reducing our threat count by that number anyway. We're paying 2 mana to take a card from them, and they pay 2 mana to get it back. Or they could just play a wrath they've drawn/scryd into, and cause a large loss of value on our part. Or if they have a removal-light hand (like, 1 kill spell) they could just magma jet/bile blight the maggot in response to the trigger, wasting no time at all. Or they can just kill our threats first, then worry about our 1/1.
The card certainly does stuff. I just don't think we currently have much of a way to profit from it in standard (like playable death triggers). Don't get me wrong, I like the card, so I'd like someone to prove me wrong about this! It's just like I said; I'd have to see it played in Standard to see how we can actually profit from it.
Woops! I was (obviously) thinking of something else. I also thought that "something" was a 2/1 lol. Thanks!
That aside, I think we'll have some decisions to make regarding sb slots devoted to discard/hand disruption. The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to doubt the power of Brain Maggot, at least in the meta as we know it. Seems pretty bad vs. any deck playing removal. Against burn, it's miserable. Same with MBD (though of course we wouldn't bring it in against them). I should clarify; I see no reason to play it over either Duress OR Thoughtseize, in anywhere. However, I often find problems simply filling my last 2-3 sb slots with black aggro. While I often jam them with Dark Betrayals or something, I find I usually don't need them. Brain Maggot could maybe fill those slots, at least vs. Colossal Gruul, where it seems at it's best. But there are other situations where maggot can shine, I'm sure. particularly against anything playing a low instant-speed removal count, like current U/W. Say you maggot their hand (it's a verb now), and see their only removal is D-sphere, verdict. Take their Verdict and they could very well die before finding another answer, or being able to play the one they had. I still feel it's a risky play either way though, with all the scry in the format; they could easily have another verdict on top, in which case you're spent a turn AND a card doing pretty much nothing. And of course, last breath is a card...
Overall, I think Brain Maggot is a card I'd have to see doing well before I think it can do well. I'm not really a fan at present. But it does pair well with Thoughtseize itself, so we'll have to wait and see.
Personally I don't like this deck to curve up to 4 with DDemon. I mean, it really already does with bestow, but then those cards are much more versatile. But I'll be the first to admit I've only tested with Dessy for a few odd rounds.
As for Brain Maggot, when I first saw the card I thought "Oh great! A reprint of a good card, but much, much worse!". And it is much worse, although it does only cost 1B, not BW. However the more I think about it, I think it still miiiiight find a home in the SB against Gruul (a deck with little removal - take their Domri from their hand and they have a huge problem, especially if you follow up with LBZ). Also, it seems great against mono U, who has even fewer ways to remove it, and you can always TAKE one of those ways away from them. Or, ya know, a Thassa, Master of Waves... My main issue with the card is of course that it's not very aggressive, but at least it can still pull some weight with bestow or Marauder!