Not so sure about Merfolk of the Trident Pearl. Yeah, it's a drop 1, but it's a vanilla drop one that isn't going to do anything but chump block and get over a few tokens in the W/x and UWx control match-ups. Single Temporal is fine mid-game since you're always going to be able to afford 2 mana. I would run D-Sphere and O-Ring in here over Cyclonic Rift and Merfolk. Cyclonic Rift is eh against he Jund/ Bant match-up I think, and then you can't really argue against O-Ring/ D-Sphere > Merfolk. Sideboard is also bleh, but I can't think of what to do with it off the top of my head.
Eh. Shimian Specter might be OK in Limited, but Standard runs too much removal, and a drop 4 with a 2/2 base that's not an ETB or provides field control, on top of its requirements is eh. I would run it since I have enough removal, but I don't regard it as better than Olivia, who gets rid of tokens, steals monsters, ect, or Talrand, which is a win condition for me.
Less talrand the sky summoner bc he is legendary. Some kind or board sweeper to deal with hexproof creatures like geist so mizzium mortars. bonfire of the dammed. or rolling tembor or instead of sweepers force sacs with tribute to hunger. and barter in blood
Actually decided to replace all my Pillar of Flame's with Mizzium Mortars.
I am going to sideboard the pillars and go with spearing spears.
I personally like Rakdos's Return over Bonfire because of the hand advantage, and the burn is obviously nice too (although, not the entirety of why I'm playing it). I was considering Rakdos Keyrune because it is so good, and it really helps with Thragtusk, but Pillar is so good right now, and the 3 CMC cast and then the 2 CMC to actually play him when I could use stuff to directly counter and what not is debatable. It's a card I am thinking about though.
Oh, and Mortars is also nice, but I decided to not tech that in and put in Liliana as a side option, as well as Jace. There are other things I would take out for Mortars though if you have specific suggestions. I'm torn between multiple options though.
Just how effective/ viable are they in the Legacy format (including competitively)? I'm new to the game, and I had the impression from someone that they were bad (they didn't say it. Just my impression), but it seems like a popular mechanic among the blue spells. Thanks.
OK cool one more bit of advice: it typically takes quite a bit of experience to successfully pilot a control deck. You have to have an intimate knowledge of the format, knowing what certain decks really need to succeed against your deck, and stopping those cards. Not to mention the fact that many cards commonly used by control decks are quite skill intensive (i.e. Brainstorm). And with the huge plethora of decks that are viable in Legacy it takes quite a long time to really understand the format. As such, starting out with a control deck may be frustrating. I might recommend an aggro deck for someone just starting out with the game anyway. At least until you get a feel for the mechanics of the game, and start to gain an understanding of the format. Again, I'd play on MWS/Cockatrice quite a bit before taking the plunge and investing in a deck. My 2 cents.
Noted. Makes sense to create a control deck after knowing the meta instead of trying to create a bad control deck that tries to shut out everything in a game like this.
Eh TBH that deck sounds pretty weak. No offense. Bounce mechanics typically aren't great in legacy. Either they successfully replay the spell, in which case you've slowed them down a bit; or you counter it when they replay it, in which case you've used 2 cards to get rid of one of theirs (card disadvantage). Why not just destroy the card outright? There are usually lots of options for doing just that. Many Legacy decks that run black and blue also run green (which gives you access to Pernicious Deed, which wipes out lots of cards at once (potential card advantage)), or white which is an excellent color in terms of answers to threats.
Also, your choice of creatures is pretty sub-par (again, no offense), legacy decks have access to pretty much any creature that has ever been printed, so only extremely efficient creatures (i.e. Tarmogoyf), or creatures that inherently give you an advantage (Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant) tend to make the cut. As someone who is new to MTG it's understandable that you may not be aware of these cards, or understand why they're so powerful. As others have stated it might be a good idea to get on MWS or Cockatrice and play some games using established decks to get a feel for the format, the game, and to help you decide what kind of deck you'd like to play. Hope this helps.
No offense taken. I was unaware of the effectiveness of bounce mechanics, and this is me trying to translate something I know from YGO into MTG so I'm not entirely in the dark. Also, tried doing Cockatrice and the download procedure is troubling. I'll get to that tomorrow and browse some deck types and then test them to and see what works for me. Snapecaster was already a card I knew of, and is obviously good. Once again though, no offense taken. I'll admit to my noobness lol
^I always thought the prices for Yugioh staples were stupid, especially with how Konami increases rarity for the US. PoD (not even that great of a card IMO) should never have been as rare or expensive as it was. Tour Guide was originally only expensive due to the art..then we got Xyz....
Plus the way Konami handles the ban list is stupid. I played plants for my brief time in competitive YGO, but I actually ran..you know, plants. It wasn't this Junk Doppel Dandy Synchro crap, it was plant synchro using plants as the meat of the main deck. Sure I had Debris Dragon in there for rather obvious reasons, and Witch of the Black Rose for flavor reasons, but all my non-plant monsters came from my extra deck, and even then my most played ones tied into the deck well enough (BRD, Queen of Thorns and such). But of course Konami can't have anything good legal for long and we have Dandy down to 1 and half the decent plant monsters banned.
It's exceedingly retarded how expensive the decks are. They easily reach up to $1000, and can reach $1200 depending on what the person is running. Triple TGU + triple XYZ staples + triple XYZ staple + triple archetype stable is already around $700-$800, and that's in what, 12 cards? Then you have Veiler which was over $100, and then Maxx "C" which is $120-$140, and Fiendish Chain which is going up in price, the Solemn duo which are also worth quite a bit, there's then Forbidden Chalice/ Lance. That's not even the meat and potatoes, and you're already at $1000. It's just really stupid. It's a money game at this point with every deck being a Billy Brake netdeck. $1000-$1200 in somewhere near 20 cards. Is there anything wrong with that picture?
it all hinges on what your local meta looks like of course, but legacy and modern staples are better investment depreciation or appreciation wise. you say you were very good at yugi-oh and you want a challenge so you should be able to understand the basic of mtg strategy fairly quickly. that being said legacy is very skill intensive and harder to find dedicated places top play that will also be forgiving if noobishness( not saying the people themselves will be rude or harsh just that the learning curve is higher) but my suggestion is modern. it is not going to rotate like standard, alot more decks are viable than in standard, and with what you plan on investing you should be able to develop a competitive collection . it is also more skill intensive than standard but easier to grok and not as much of a pool to become familiar with than legacy. don't forget that you probably be able to make the jump from modern to legacy easier than the reverse and the same goes for modern to standard. so modern is the happy medium between skill, popularity of format , and card appreciation concerns.
Thanks a lot for the info on what would seem to be the best format to start off in while I warm up to things. I'll really consider modern now since it will be easier to get into than Legacy (with the huge card pool), but also more challenging than Standard. Like I said, I'm looking to get out of the whole "these are the few meta decks, and this is what you play if you want to be competetive" feel.
My LGS has about 50% of there yugioh base coming over to magic, I don't know if its a going trend or not but we welcome it. They all say the same thing you say about the same decks, the power levels, the quick games.
Welcome to Magic, I suggest you read about a deck or two that fits your playstyle and just buy the singles or a box and trade for the singles first. Then once you grasp the game good you can create your own decks.
Well, it's likely because Konami is swindling people by making staples extremely rare, thus making the secondary market rack up the prices to $120-$180 per card for a deck staple where you need to run triples of each, and then once that happens, the people who can afford it roflstomp everything else due to broken game mechanics and the fact that Konami doesn't test cards prior to release. Broken TCG exclusives that single handedly won games didn't help either.
I wouldn't recommend getting into Magic Online yet just because you are paying for virtual cards. Starting with Magic Workstation or Cockatrice is definitely the way to go, as Miniluv said. The experience won't be 100%, but being free is basically perfect for testing and having an easy way to filter through the cardpool (which is like 99% of the cards ever printed for Legacy).
So you're basically trading in a Yugioh collection for a MTG collection then? Getting a deck would obviously be no problem then, but you definitely need to know what to look for if you are trying to make an actual collection.
For Legacy the starting point for any deck is always going to be the lands. Every deck with few exceptions starts with Fetch Lands, Dual Lands, and utility lands, predominately Wasteland. Any blue dual land in general is going to better to own, Tundra, Underground Sea, Tropical Island, and Volcanic Island. It's important to note though that with dual lands that few decks actually run a full set of them. Two color decks will run a playset of their respective dual, but other then that you only need to own one or two to build most decks.
Creatures that are good investments are basically going to be the two drops of Legacy and a few others. Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Knight of the Reliquary, Vendilion Clique, Noble Heirarch, Mother of Runes are probably the most commonly seen creatures in Legacy right now, and are highly playable in a variety of strategies and decks. Force of Will, Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Liliana of the Veil, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Green Sun's Zenith, Aether Vial are just a bunch of spells off the top of my head that gives you a big head start towards a lot of different decks.
Also really going to depend on what kind of decks you like to play. Combo, control, aggro, resource denial, etc. and everything in between are highly playable options in Legacy, so it really is the format that has something for everyone. Once you have a deck in mind and have a list built fleshing out a collection becomes a lot easier too.
Wow. I didn't think dual lands would be upwards of up to $100+. I plan on playing a blue-black control deck with cards like Cloud of Faeies for an essentially free summon, Reassembling Skeleton, Geralf's Messanger, Vampire Nighthawk, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Vexing Sphinx, Man'O War, and Beguiler of Wills, with a spell line-up of bounce instants and destruction instants. Not sure if it's a viable strategy, but I already know that I should be investing in cards like Darkslick Shores and Drowned Catacomb. Like I said, I am new to this game, so I don't know how viable bounce mechanics are, and how good killing is, but coming from YGO it seems like it would translate pretty well when running stuff like 4 Counterspell and 4 Mana Leak to maintain control. Correct me if I'm wrong on all of this though.
+4 Snapcaster Mage
-3 Electrickery
+3 Dissipate (or whatever your preferred counterspell is)
-4 Pillar of Flame
+4 Mizzium Mortars (Pillars doesn't do anything against Jund or Bant, which have high turnouts)
-1 Thunderous Wrath
+1 Temporal Mastery (extra chance to flip Delver, plus untapping lands for more control through instants/ sorceries)
-3 Unsummon
+1 Searing Spear
+2 Think Twice/ Forbidden Alchemy/ or keep two Pillar of Flame
So completely lose the flavor of the deck and run GB Zombies instead? Pro suggestion.
Actually decided to replace all my Pillar of Flame's with Mizzium Mortars.
I personally like Rakdos's Return over Bonfire because of the hand advantage, and the burn is obviously nice too (although, not the entirety of why I'm playing it). I was considering Rakdos Keyrune because it is so good, and it really helps with Thragtusk, but Pillar is so good right now, and the 3 CMC cast and then the 2 CMC to actually play him when I could use stuff to directly counter and what not is debatable. It's a card I am thinking about though.
Oh, and Mortars is also nice, but I decided to not tech that in and put in Liliana as a side option, as well as Jace. There are other things I would take out for Mortars though if you have specific suggestions. I'm torn between multiple options though.
4 Augur of Bolas
4 Olivia Voldaren
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Instant
3 Dissipate
4 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Izzet Charm
3 Think Twice
2 Ultimate Price
Sorcery
3 Dreadbore
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Steam Vents
2 Island
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
3 Ash Zealot
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Essence Scatter
3 Slaughter Games
2 Sever the Bloodline
Basis of the deck is to have constant outs to Creatures, good hand advantage with Think Twice, Augur of Bolas, and Forbidden Alchemy, and have Talrand, Sky Summoner put down a lot of tokens because of the large amount of Instants and Sorcery's.
Here's a demo of what the deck can do. Not going to put every game I've had with this deck against the T1 decks, but most of the match-ups have been turning out like this, more or less. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv6qu0_grixis-control-vs-bant-control_videogames#.UKkIsIbk2Sr
Returning cards to hand.
Noted. Makes sense to create a control deck after knowing the meta instead of trying to create a bad control deck that tries to shut out everything in a game like this.
No offense taken. I was unaware of the effectiveness of bounce mechanics, and this is me trying to translate something I know from YGO into MTG so I'm not entirely in the dark. Also, tried doing Cockatrice and the download procedure is troubling. I'll get to that tomorrow and browse some deck types and then test them to and see what works for me. Snapecaster was already a card I knew of, and is obviously good. Once again though, no offense taken. I'll admit to my noobness lol
It's exceedingly retarded how expensive the decks are. They easily reach up to $1000, and can reach $1200 depending on what the person is running. Triple TGU + triple XYZ staples + triple XYZ staple + triple archetype stable is already around $700-$800, and that's in what, 12 cards? Then you have Veiler which was over $100, and then Maxx "C" which is $120-$140, and Fiendish Chain which is going up in price, the Solemn duo which are also worth quite a bit, there's then Forbidden Chalice/ Lance. That's not even the meat and potatoes, and you're already at $1000. It's just really stupid. It's a money game at this point with every deck being a Billy Brake netdeck. $1000-$1200 in somewhere near 20 cards. Is there anything wrong with that picture?
Thanks a lot for the info on what would seem to be the best format to start off in while I warm up to things. I'll really consider modern now since it will be easier to get into than Legacy (with the huge card pool), but also more challenging than Standard. Like I said, I'm looking to get out of the whole "these are the few meta decks, and this is what you play if you want to be competetive" feel.
Well, it's likely because Konami is swindling people by making staples extremely rare, thus making the secondary market rack up the prices to $120-$180 per card for a deck staple where you need to run triples of each, and then once that happens, the people who can afford it roflstomp everything else due to broken game mechanics and the fact that Konami doesn't test cards prior to release. Broken TCG exclusives that single handedly won games didn't help either.
Also, thanks for welcoming us!
Wow. I didn't think dual lands would be upwards of up to $100+. I plan on playing a blue-black control deck with cards like Cloud of Faeies for an essentially free summon, Reassembling Skeleton, Geralf's Messanger, Vampire Nighthawk, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Vexing Sphinx, Man'O War, and Beguiler of Wills, with a spell line-up of bounce instants and destruction instants. Not sure if it's a viable strategy, but I already know that I should be investing in cards like Darkslick Shores and Drowned Catacomb. Like I said, I am new to this game, so I don't know how viable bounce mechanics are, and how good killing is, but coming from YGO it seems like it would translate pretty well when running stuff like 4 Counterspell and 4 Mana Leak to maintain control. Correct me if I'm wrong on all of this though.