Unfortunately, the character (he's called Burke in the novels) doesn't seem to really fit with the traditional idea of Slenderman: Burke is really tough, really strong, but has no mind beyond someone else's telepathic control. Slenderman always seemed subtle and clever, whereas Burke is more a mindless movie monster.
Oh man this thread is great! Most hilarious read I've ever had on this forum for sure!
<snip>
I have never in my life felt more awkward while playing a game of Magic. I spent the whole game cringing and just wishing it would end, eventually realizing the only way that was going to happen was if I Tendrils'd a mentally handicapped 8 year old girl. Ultimately I had to do it, but I'll never live it down (especially after I told my friends about what happened later).
Why wouldn't you just Tendrils for 14-16 instead of throwing in an IGG loop to kill? It looks big, does a ton of damage, and explains why you haven't been playing anything (saving up for the big turn), but doesn't make her lose. Granted, the nice frogs might not have attacked anyway, forcing you to do something to finish the game, but there is a place between sitting on your hand and going full-on TES nuts. Heck, Infernal Tutor for extra cantrips or Chants, Burning Wish for sideboard cards that are only barely relevant (Deathmark on a Spore Frog? Maybe that'll get them mad!).
I have a similar awkward game: before my roomate left, we decided to play our first (and likely last) games of Magic. I had nothing even remotely casual built, and his deck was a remixed Angels and Demons precon. I had annihilated him the first game with Stoneblade, so I really wanted to have him win one to keep his spirits about the game up. The most casual thing I had was a Riku EDH list.
Unfortunately, my draw was not especially bad, and even avoiding removal and bombs, I was quickly in a position where I couldn't make it look realistic that I didn't have more plays in my hand (I had cast Praetor's Counsel as a bomb card that doesn't actually do anything on its own, and was now sitting with 20+ cards in hand).
Thankfully, he stuck an Akroma. Pro-red? That's believable! I started doing everything ineffectual I could find to lock out Akroma: Repulse, Repeal, flying blue chump-blockers, and prayed to the Magic gods that he didn't know how many cards are capable of dealing with it. I finally went in for the not-quite-there alpha strike while within one swing of Akroma. Unfortunately, a Charmbreaker Devils had brought back the Repeal, and given that he knew it was in my hand, I had to make the most ridiculously poor play ever, bouncing a blocker after blocks were declared just to get the Repeal out of my hand.
I honestly have no idea if he bought it or not, I definitely wouldn't have, but that's definitely the most hoops I've ever jumped through to throw a game, and it was a heck of an awkward feeling trying to bluff that none of the 20ish cards in my hand were relevant while looking down at most of the bombs in my deck.
in that case just the Serra's Blessing.
vigilance for 1W? Yes please!
Why pay 1W when you can play Reconnaissance for W, and get vigilance for as many of your guys as you want, as well as being able to dodge bad blocks and combat tricks?
Were damage on the stack, this card would be nuts (ala Morphling...but probably not as good)
Why would damage on the stack make this guy good? You can still only activate his ability once per turn, so the only benefit I can see is that it lets you stack 1 damage from his "unshifted" form and then transform him before damage is dealt. And the only thing that really does is make his 0/8 plant form a 1/8 plant.
I activate Mizzium Transreliquat targetting the replayed Mindslaver. With one mana to spare, I pop that wacky Izzet artifact and MINDSLAVER MYSELF FOR THE WIN.
I don't see anything about a Mirror Gallery, how did you get around the legend rule blowing up your copy before you get priority?
Well I am saying that Torment is already in play, course you are right, it's hard to get a Torment into play with Dovescape, but there are a variety of ways to force things into play around Dovescape.
I think the point of the thread is to win starting from nothing in play: if not, adding the Capsize combo I posted to any lock will leave you with nothing in play after the lock's completed anyway.
I'm curious if you have ways to dodge Dovescape (with Humility in play) beyond the Boseiju-Trickbind method I posted, since every extra way is beneficial in EDH.
EDIT: Boseiju'd Wargate will get any permanent into play around Dovescape. Other search cards will work, although these are largely for creatures, I don't remember too many instants or sorceries that put a noncreature permanent into play.
Is it possible to break the aforementioned combo but with the teferi/knowledge pool lock instead of dovescape? I think boseiju doesn't work when you can't cast spells in the first place:
Maybe you could leave out the shroud pieces because people can't remove your permanents if they can't cast spells, there are however cards you can cycle for damage or am I wrong? Maybe they can be replaced with something that doesn't allow people to cycle? Is there some gap when using the teferi/pool combo? Is the humility still needed when using teferi/pool?
First of all, you need to remove Humility, or it'll turn off Teferi.
This requires people to do whatever they're going to try to do on one land, and doesn't add any vulnerabilities, since Land Equilibrium is also an enchantment and Zuran Orb has achieved its purpose before priority is passed on its resolution.
I don't know if it's assumed the opponent has lands in play, if so the Zuran Orb should be an Armageddon with Boseiju, who Shelters All to force it through.
EDIT:
Quote from purple_pixie »
Otherwise good thinking - but they can also get around it by playing cards from anywhere other than the hand - Command Zone (although that would lose to Humility), exile, graveyard, library.
Pretty sure there's cards that let you cast from any of the above zones, it's just a case of landing them before the Knowledge Pool gets laid down.
Isn't the point of this that the opponent doesn't have anything in play beforehand?
Add this to whatever lock, play Wheel of Sun and Moon, play these cards, bounce every permanent an opponent has, sac everything to KCI, finish the lock, pass the turn.
Doesn't Everlasting Torment ruin your scenario? Bascially any spell they cast will get dovescaped into tokens that will just kill you? I guess adding Moat to the scenario fixes the problem of Token damage. But then other sources of damage that don't target are going to be problematic. Everlasting Torment and Hurricane kill you.
Don't you actually have to resolve Everlasting Torment through Dovescape though? It's possible, but I see an easier way:
Boseiju, who Shelters All, untap, sufficiently large Exsanguinate. Doesn't target, doesn't deal damage, Dovescape trigger won't counter it because of Boseiju.
Sidenote: If you want to force something through Dovescape, cast it, then Boseiju-powered Trickbind on the Dovescape trigger. Note that Trickbind isn't there for the split second, it's just the only triggered-ability counter that has a colorless in the cost to put Boseiju mana into, or at least the only one I can think of.
EDIT:You could also just force through any of the alternate win condition enchantments with this method. There should be methods for attaining any of the alt-win conditions with just instants and sorceries, given enough Regrowth effects.
These aren't always perfect examples. Some cards have been color shifted often (Ali from Cairo and Worship, most notably from above). Also, we're still missing functionally unique cards like Al-abara's Carpet and All Hallow's Eve.
Almost none of those are even close to functional reprints: at best, they share a vague similarity of mechanics. The differences between the modern versions and their past incarnations may be extremely relevant depending on what future cards bring.
Regarding technically-not-functional versions of the dual lands, wouldn't:
Volcanic Islet
Land- Island Mountain T: Add 1 to your mana pool
accomplish the goal of creating new "just as good" dual lands? These don't have the same abilities as the original reprints, and thus are not functional reprints, but in most cases will play identically to the originals (Sunburst might get a tiny benefit in really rare circumstances).
Mind Funeral seems like it'd be perfect for this deck, since the more lands they pull out, the deeper Funeral goes. It would require black, which probably means dropping white, but it seems a little less clunky than the Trepanation Blade.
EDIT: If you do go this route, Psychic Drain seems the next logical conclusion: you seem to be missing things to do with large numbers of lands, other than Collective Voyage or New Frontiers for more next time.
EDIT2: Ambassador Laquatus carries a Trepanation Blade, funnels mana into milling, and works better than Psychic Drain with your kind of mana ramp, since he can use up excess mana over multiple turns intead of just once.
Also note that the name "Junk" isn't actually based on the colors (classically B/G/W), but instead based on the way the deck operates: throwing a bunch of high-powered cards together with little synergy other than "winning the game". Thus, rather than being a finely tuned machine, it's just a bunch of "junk".
I fail to see how you know for a fact the the market for the blind is any smaller then the market for the people with sight.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there are less people who are blind than there are people who can see. That would make the market for the blind smaller than the one for people with sight.
I'm almost sure that they could enjoy the same things we do, with the exception of film. There are books and magazines printed in braille on restroom sings it is there also. why not a fantasy card game?
I'd first like to point out that restroom signs having braille support is because it's necessary for them to be able to enjoy reasonable comfort. It's basically analogous to having elevator support for people in wheelchairs: if we didn't have it, it would be unreasonably difficult for them to visit those areas.
As far as the actual development issues would be:
It seems like it's not unreasonable to print art on braille cards, which seems like it would take care of the issue with sighted people: we already play cards in Russian when neither player can read the language. As long as the card is recognizable by a sighted player, and we've got judges to provide Oracle text, the sighted player would be fine. The issue would be that in order for the blind player to be in a position where he could properly understand the game, the sighted player would have to be playing with braille cards as well, otherwise it seems unlikely the blind player would be able to maintain his understanding of the game state.
The larger issue I can see is that braille cards would require a completely different printing process than normal Magic cards. I've never seen long sentences in braille, so I'm unclear as to whether we could actually fit all the necessary information on a standard Magic card, but odds are we'd have to increase length and width. Far more important is the fact that we'd have to deal with the fact that braille, by definition, protrudes from the card. This would make standard shuffling (and sleeving) impossible, without making a border around the card at least as thick as the height of braille letters. So now you're dealing with a much, much thicker card stock, and probably different manufacturing processes to get the cards. Packs would need new packaging as well. That's a lot of extra cost for a relatively niche market.
In addition, I'd expect Magic with blind players to be troublesome. A lot of decisions in Magic depend heavily on the game state, so you'd basically have to be constantly "reading" the board with your fingers. If you inadvertently missed a card, you could be completely misreading what the correct move is. There's also the issue of misplacing cards, since if one moves to the side or falls off the tabletop (an issue I could definitely see, given the cards' new thickness- ever tried to play with a deck sleeved in the hard plastic toploaders?), it would probably take some match-delaying time before they found it again. And don't forget that a lot of the reason Magic players can move at a reasonable pace when looking through large numbers of cards is because they can quickly identify cards by the art: resolving a search effect is much more difficult and time-consuming when you have to manually read every card's title.
Also note that every Constructed format beyond Standard, and probably EDH as well, would basically be locked to these players, unless Wizards plans on reprinting every past set in Braille.
. For those who say Jackal Pup just isn't good anymore I ask this... "Other than Goblin Guide, what 2 power creature for R has a smaller drawback than Jackal Pup?"
The correct answer, IMHO, is "There isn't one".
For the record, the correct answer is Kird Ape. And I have a hard time seeing Jackal Pup as better than Tattermunge Maniac these days: it's not like you're going to be chump-blocking with the Pup all that often, and any deck that can block the Maniac is going to make the Pup irrelevant. And Maniac plays a lot nicer with opposing Bolts/Lavamancers, which are seeing a lot more play in Legacy these days.
Personally, I miss all the old efficient G/R beaters. Troll Ascetic, Wild Mongrel, Flametongue Kavu, Werebear. Most of them have newer analogues (Thrun, Goyf, Skinrender, Goyf again), but there was some elegance to the older ones I don't feel the new ones have.
Also, I miss Flying Men being relevant. It was never really a good card, but it was at least a reasonable 1-drop in the right deck at one point. Delver of Secrets just rips that apart these days.
And I'm not really sure this qualifies, but I really miss Pickles (the Vesuvan Shapeshifter/ Brine Elemental combo list from RAV/TSP Standard). Sadly, its weakness was to quick creature assaults, something that's become more and more prevalent over the years.
Yeah, in that case I'd say you made the right call: you minimized the number of cards he could have to win, and he just happened to have one of the few that let him do so. Just what happens in a game with random factors.
And technically, it doesn't necessarily represent a Bell-Ringer, it could also mean removal for the Dragon, but his optimal play line is the same.
Seems like a reasonable play unless you had a Shimmering Grotto on the field. It seems unlikely that you'll be able to outclass/remove it from a random topdeck, so you're giving him one turn to get an out, and as you pointed out, he can't win off removal or a chump-blocker.
I guess the only question is
whether he had the Clutches in the graveyard, and thus it was known information to you. If he did, then it might have been better to just swing with the Rider, Feeling of Dread the Dragon at beginning of combat, EOT the Bell-Ringer, and hope to topdeck removal or anything that can do 2 more damage that turn. Swinging all in tells your opponent you have a trick, because it is never the right play to let a Balefire hit. Nightbird's Clutches was actually a pretty solid play for him, since there are no blockers with flash that can hit a Dragon, removal probably means he's dead whatever he does, so Bell-Ringer was actually one of the few cards you could be holding that he could do something about.
Why wouldn't you just Tendrils for 14-16 instead of throwing in an IGG loop to kill? It looks big, does a ton of damage, and explains why you haven't been playing anything (saving up for the big turn), but doesn't make her lose. Granted, the nice frogs might not have attacked anyway, forcing you to do something to finish the game, but there is a place between sitting on your hand and going full-on TES nuts. Heck, Infernal Tutor for extra cantrips or Chants, Burning Wish for sideboard cards that are only barely relevant (Deathmark on a Spore Frog? Maybe that'll get them mad!).
I have a similar awkward game: before my roomate left, we decided to play our first (and likely last) games of Magic. I had nothing even remotely casual built, and his deck was a remixed Angels and Demons precon. I had annihilated him the first game with Stoneblade, so I really wanted to have him win one to keep his spirits about the game up. The most casual thing I had was a Riku EDH list.
Unfortunately, my draw was not especially bad, and even avoiding removal and bombs, I was quickly in a position where I couldn't make it look realistic that I didn't have more plays in my hand (I had cast Praetor's Counsel as a bomb card that doesn't actually do anything on its own, and was now sitting with 20+ cards in hand).
Thankfully, he stuck an Akroma. Pro-red? That's believable! I started doing everything ineffectual I could find to lock out Akroma: Repulse, Repeal, flying blue chump-blockers, and prayed to the Magic gods that he didn't know how many cards are capable of dealing with it. I finally went in for the not-quite-there alpha strike while within one swing of Akroma. Unfortunately, a Charmbreaker Devils had brought back the Repeal, and given that he knew it was in my hand, I had to make the most ridiculously poor play ever, bouncing a blocker after blocks were declared just to get the Repeal out of my hand.
I honestly have no idea if he bought it or not, I definitely wouldn't have, but that's definitely the most hoops I've ever jumped through to throw a game, and it was a heck of an awkward feeling trying to bluff that none of the 20ish cards in my hand were relevant while looking down at most of the bombs in my deck.
Why pay 1W when you can play Reconnaissance for W, and get vigilance for as many of your guys as you want, as well as being able to dodge bad blocks and combat tricks?
Why would damage on the stack make this guy good? You can still only activate his ability once per turn, so the only benefit I can see is that it lets you stack 1 damage from his "unshifted" form and then transform him before damage is dealt. And the only thing that really does is make his 0/8 plant form a 1/8 plant.
I don't see anything about a Mirror Gallery, how did you get around the legend rule blowing up your copy before you get priority?
I think the point of the thread is to win starting from nothing in play: if not, adding the Capsize combo I posted to any lock will leave you with nothing in play after the lock's completed anyway.
I'm curious if you have ways to dodge Dovescape (with Humility in play) beyond the Boseiju-Trickbind method I posted, since every extra way is beneficial in EDH.
EDIT: Boseiju'd Wargate will get any permanent into play around Dovescape. Other search cards will work, although these are largely for creatures, I don't remember too many instants or sorceries that put a noncreature permanent into play.
For ease of reference, my current attempt at a lock:
Privileged Position+ Greater Auramancy+Solitary Confinement+ Honden of Seeing Winds (or other "draw cards during upkeep)+ Wheel of Sun and Moon+Dovescape+ Humility+ Elspeth Emblem
+
Land Equilibrium + Zuran Orb (to sacrifice all lands after lock is established)
First of all, you need to remove Humility, or it'll turn off Teferi.
Assuming you do:
Leechridden Swamp + Spawning Pool + Creeping Tar Pit. Activate the second two to get two black permanents, activate Leechridden Swamp. Repeat over however many turns.
For another attempt at a lock:
How about Privileged Position+ Greater Auramancy+Solitary Confinement+ Honden of Seeing Winds (or other "draw cards during upkeep)+ Wheel of Sun and Moon+Dovescape+ Humility+ Elspeth Emblem
+
Land Equilibrium + Zuran Orb (to sacrifice all lands after lock is established)?
This requires people to do whatever they're going to try to do on one land, and doesn't add any vulnerabilities, since Land Equilibrium is also an enchantment and Zuran Orb has achieved its purpose before priority is passed on its resolution.
I don't know if it's assumed the opponent has lands in play, if so the Zuran Orb should be an Armageddon with Boseiju, who Shelters All to force it through.
EDIT:
Isn't the point of this that the opponent doesn't have anything in play beforehand?
If not, Mycosynth Lattice+Krark-Clan-Ironworks+Filigree Sages+Training Grounds+Gilded Lotus(infinite mana combo that cleans up after itself)
+Capsize.
Add this to whatever lock, play Wheel of Sun and Moon, play these cards, bounce every permanent an opponent has, sac everything to KCI, finish the lock, pass the turn.
Don't you actually have to resolve Everlasting Torment through Dovescape though? It's possible, but I see an easier way:
Boseiju, who Shelters All, untap, sufficiently large Exsanguinate. Doesn't target, doesn't deal damage, Dovescape trigger won't counter it because of Boseiju.
Sidenote: If you want to force something through Dovescape, cast it, then Boseiju-powered Trickbind on the Dovescape trigger. Note that Trickbind isn't there for the split second, it's just the only triggered-ability counter that has a colorless in the cost to put Boseiju mana into, or at least the only one I can think of.
EDIT:You could also just force through any of the alternate win condition enchantments with this method. There should be methods for attaining any of the alt-win conditions with just instants and sorceries, given enough Regrowth effects.
Almost none of those are even close to functional reprints: at best, they share a vague similarity of mechanics. The differences between the modern versions and their past incarnations may be extremely relevant depending on what future cards bring.
Regarding technically-not-functional versions of the dual lands, wouldn't:
accomplish the goal of creating new "just as good" dual lands? These don't have the same abilities as the original reprints, and thus are not functional reprints, but in most cases will play identically to the originals (Sunburst might get a tiny benefit in really rare circumstances).
EDIT: If you do go this route, Psychic Drain seems the next logical conclusion: you seem to be missing things to do with large numbers of lands, other than Collective Voyage or New Frontiers for more next time.
EDIT2: Ambassador Laquatus carries a Trepanation Blade, funnels mana into milling, and works better than Psychic Drain with your kind of mana ramp, since he can use up excess mana over multiple turns intead of just once.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there are less people who are blind than there are people who can see. That would make the market for the blind smaller than the one for people with sight.
I'd first like to point out that restroom signs having braille support is because it's necessary for them to be able to enjoy reasonable comfort. It's basically analogous to having elevator support for people in wheelchairs: if we didn't have it, it would be unreasonably difficult for them to visit those areas.
As far as the actual development issues would be:
It seems like it's not unreasonable to print art on braille cards, which seems like it would take care of the issue with sighted people: we already play cards in Russian when neither player can read the language. As long as the card is recognizable by a sighted player, and we've got judges to provide Oracle text, the sighted player would be fine. The issue would be that in order for the blind player to be in a position where he could properly understand the game, the sighted player would have to be playing with braille cards as well, otherwise it seems unlikely the blind player would be able to maintain his understanding of the game state.
The larger issue I can see is that braille cards would require a completely different printing process than normal Magic cards. I've never seen long sentences in braille, so I'm unclear as to whether we could actually fit all the necessary information on a standard Magic card, but odds are we'd have to increase length and width. Far more important is the fact that we'd have to deal with the fact that braille, by definition, protrudes from the card. This would make standard shuffling (and sleeving) impossible, without making a border around the card at least as thick as the height of braille letters. So now you're dealing with a much, much thicker card stock, and probably different manufacturing processes to get the cards. Packs would need new packaging as well. That's a lot of extra cost for a relatively niche market.
In addition, I'd expect Magic with blind players to be troublesome. A lot of decisions in Magic depend heavily on the game state, so you'd basically have to be constantly "reading" the board with your fingers. If you inadvertently missed a card, you could be completely misreading what the correct move is. There's also the issue of misplacing cards, since if one moves to the side or falls off the tabletop (an issue I could definitely see, given the cards' new thickness- ever tried to play with a deck sleeved in the hard plastic toploaders?), it would probably take some match-delaying time before they found it again. And don't forget that a lot of the reason Magic players can move at a reasonable pace when looking through large numbers of cards is because they can quickly identify cards by the art: resolving a search effect is much more difficult and time-consuming when you have to manually read every card's title.
Also note that every Constructed format beyond Standard, and probably EDH as well, would basically be locked to these players, unless Wizards plans on reprinting every past set in Braille.
For the record, the correct answer is Kird Ape. And I have a hard time seeing Jackal Pup as better than Tattermunge Maniac these days: it's not like you're going to be chump-blocking with the Pup all that often, and any deck that can block the Maniac is going to make the Pup irrelevant. And Maniac plays a lot nicer with opposing Bolts/Lavamancers, which are seeing a lot more play in Legacy these days.
Personally, I miss all the old efficient G/R beaters. Troll Ascetic, Wild Mongrel, Flametongue Kavu, Werebear. Most of them have newer analogues (Thrun, Goyf, Skinrender, Goyf again), but there was some elegance to the older ones I don't feel the new ones have.
Also, I miss Flying Men being relevant. It was never really a good card, but it was at least a reasonable 1-drop in the right deck at one point. Delver of Secrets just rips that apart these days.
And I'm not really sure this qualifies, but I really miss Pickles (the Vesuvan Shapeshifter/ Brine Elemental combo list from RAV/TSP Standard). Sadly, its weakness was to quick creature assaults, something that's become more and more prevalent over the years.
And technically, it doesn't necessarily represent a Bell-Ringer, it could also mean removal for the Dragon, but his optimal play line is the same.
I guess the only question is
whether he had the Clutches in the graveyard, and thus it was known information to you. If he did, then it might have been better to just swing with the Rider, Feeling of Dread the Dragon at beginning of combat, EOT the Bell-Ringer, and hope to topdeck removal or anything that can do 2 more damage that turn. Swinging all in tells your opponent you have a trick, because it is never the right play to let a Balefire hit. Nightbird's Clutches was actually a pretty solid play for him, since there are no blockers with flash that can hit a Dragon, removal probably means he's dead whatever he does, so Bell-Ringer was actually one of the few cards you could be holding that he could do something about.