If an opponent does something when priority is passed to him in the main phase going towards the beginning of combat phase, then the main phase is never moved out of because for a phase to change, both players need to pass priority without doing anything. Because the opponent did something, the turn stays in the main phase and one can continue to cast spells at sorcery speed.
OK I lost quite badly. Never once got near a combo. But I have made a change I think is quite useful. Calling is coming out, in its place is Lead the Stampede. I think that what the deck needed was card advantage and this I think if the best answer I can find. Also before I started I cut a Regal for a Viridian Zealot, this I think was a smart choice. Overall I feel I would have done better with Stamp in the deck.
Lastly, I feel as tho the deck as a combo is not the greatest. Maybe thats just me. I am thinking about pushing more of an Aggro angle with a Combo secondary choice. For this I am thinking I will add maybe 2 or 3 more lords.
The two cards function very similarly. The only thing about Call is that to be able to get good advantage out of it, you need to be able to work with other pieces. However, when those pieces come around (and we design our deck so they do as much as possible), we can grind out a lot of cards. Lead the Stampede is instantaneous.
Call doesn't necessarily always need to be used as a combo tool. It's very viable to cast Call on a turn that you know you can't go infinite and dump out your hand to draw a new one. That's much more advantage than Lead can give you.
I don't think taking out Call in this deck is ever the right thing to do. Instead the deck should be led towards Call so it can be used to a higher effectiveness.
So I've played a couple games with the Hythonias mainboard: a pair. They're really good. They make a top end that is hard to get by (sparing removal) and when you wipe the board, it's a 2-3 turn clock that some opponents struggle to get past. And you get to keep the Reapers you stuck early on.
I'll urge everyone to try it out. Probably only if you're playing Sylvan Caryatid though. That way she's more relevant as quickly as possible.
I think we're dealing with a slow enough Standard in the end that it's viable. Being able to get her monstrous is a big deal and will put us so far ahead against most decks that they won't be able to come back. We can jump up to her and she's sturdy as it is.
Edit: 4 Sylvan Caryatid isn't ramp? It's the Farseek of this format with a butt.
To be honest, I think Hythonia the Cruel is really good in this deck. You land it early and two turns later give it Monstrous to sweep the board BUT be able to keep Reaper of the Wilds.
Here's a list I've theorycrafted: numbers are probably off and I want to be able to fit in some number of Underworld Connections.
My pure combo lists (both pre-Theros) play 4 Beck and 2 Lead the Stampede (and 2 Cloudstone Curio). Lead still draws me 3+ cards pretty reliably in my pure combo lists, and it's great both during and outside of the combo turn.
My current combo-aggro list plays 4 Beck, 0 Lead, 2 Chord of Calling (the most successful lists tend to run it, and sideboard creatures are fun), 0 Curio, 2 Nykthos, 1 Hoof, 4 Deathrite, and 1 Joraga Warcaller (and 1 sideboard Polukranos, World Eater for when I really need their guys dead). I do need more sideboard testing with Chord, and if it can't consistently save me post-board, I'm taking it out for Lead because both the Beck and Hoof plans want a critical mass of dudes.
I'm on a very similar list with you right now, except without the Chords and the Warcaller. I urge you to test out Intruder Alarm. I was skeptical at first as well, but if you can see the merits of having a lot of mana quickly, then you should be able to see why you should play this card.
If you play Hoof and 2+ Nykthos, I don't think Orochi Leafcaller is necessary (a lot of your wins will be non-combo Hoof wins with this configuration, and jamming in Hoof earlier with a mana dork Elf is that much better than sticking with Leafcaller). Heck, unless you play Glittering Wish, Coiling Oracle, or Ranger of Eos, I don't think Orochi Leafcaller is necessary. I haven't found the Leafcaller necessary in my pure Combo Elves versions with Cloudstone Curio and Mortarpod as the primary win con--I've found that I've won more often by drawing into combo pieces with Lead the Stampede.
Your list plays Lead the Stampede? Does it also play Beck or did you swap one out for the other? You're talking about fusing Aggro lists which play Lead and Combo lists which play Beck over Lead.
Orochi Leafcaller is an MVP. If you construct your manabase correctly, you should only need to filter mana in a pinch (i.e. continuing a Beck turn with a fused/not fused Call). You only play a singleton to Pact for when you need it, but trust me, it's lack of being an Elf isn't an insurmountable con.
That being said, playing Intruder Alarm gives Orochi Leafcaller more to do more often, because having 8 mana without a Beck isn't uncommon. It gives you the option to playing towards fusing a Beck // Call as opposed to making it a roadbump along the way.
I might as well share my non-TWoo influenced list that I've been pretty happy with as of now. I'm not sure that I'm entirely convinced that Intruder Alarm is completely necessary to use yet; this list I'm noticing has the combo potential but also the ability to Beck just for value and aggro them out like Affinity.
Maindeck Prowess of the Fair is really strong. I mean, really strong. At the worst (against the decks its effect is not really effective against), it's a 2-drop Elf that doesn't need to be sandbagged for the combo turn. At its best, it overpowers the advantage decks get by using heavy removal.
I don't have a sideboard just yet because I'm not actually sure what I'd want to bring in. My thoughts are mostly things to bolster the UWR matchup (the 4th Prowess, and I'm still attached to some copies of Bloodbond March, but that's just in theory) and perhaps something to replace Prowess at the 2-drop slot in those matchups where it's not needed.
Your deck is still going to have the same problems that all other combo Elves decks have against decks with heavy removal. You need to be able to plan for that.
Edit: I suppose I should contribute a bit with an update.
Cloudstone Curio and Intruder Alarm were just win more in testing. They weren't really necessary; even if I ended up whiffing on a Beck in the end, I usually had enough Elves and lords to make the difference.
4/2 split on Coiling Oracle and Elvish Visionary gives me the best of both worlds: Oracle early and Visionary late.
I'm not so sure what to do with my 4 flex spots (2 open now, 2 filled by Harbinger and Leafcaller). I'm honestly gravitating towards a Glittering Wish package for 2 reasons: I often win because of mising a Beck off the top in situations where I shouldn't, and it would allow me to preboard a bit against decks where I have a really bad game one (see UWR; I'd be able to Wish for my hate pieces early on).
If an opponent does something when priority is passed to him in the main phase going towards the beginning of combat phase, then the main phase is never moved out of because for a phase to change, both players need to pass priority without doing anything. Because the opponent did something, the turn stays in the main phase and one can continue to cast spells at sorcery speed.
The two cards function very similarly. The only thing about Call is that to be able to get good advantage out of it, you need to be able to work with other pieces. However, when those pieces come around (and we design our deck so they do as much as possible), we can grind out a lot of cards. Lead the Stampede is instantaneous.
Call doesn't necessarily always need to be used as a combo tool. It's very viable to cast Call on a turn that you know you can't go infinite and dump out your hand to draw a new one. That's much more advantage than Lead can give you.
I don't think taking out Call in this deck is ever the right thing to do. Instead the deck should be led towards Call so it can be used to a higher effectiveness.
I'll urge everyone to try it out. Probably only if you're playing Sylvan Caryatid though. That way she's more relevant as quickly as possible.
That's just too good to pass up.
Edit: 4 Sylvan Caryatid isn't ramp? It's the Farseek of this format with a butt.
Here's a list I've theorycrafted: numbers are probably off and I want to be able to fit in some number of Underworld Connections.
3 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Desecration Demon
2 Hythonia the Cruel
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Putrefy
3 Read the Bones
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
2 Ulitmate Price
2 Primeval Bounty
1 Gaze of Granite
1 Golgari Charm
4 Golgari Guildgate
11 Swamp
5 Forest
I added them because I found myself very low on critical mass of one drops. They do me very well.
And as an added perk, they're Pyroclasm resistant with only one lord.
I'm on a very similar list with you right now, except without the Chords and the Warcaller. I urge you to test out Intruder Alarm. I was skeptical at first as well, but if you can see the merits of having a lot of mana quickly, then you should be able to see why you should play this card.
Your list plays Lead the Stampede? Does it also play Beck or did you swap one out for the other? You're talking about fusing Aggro lists which play Lead and Combo lists which play Beck over Lead.
That being said, playing Intruder Alarm gives Orochi Leafcaller more to do more often, because having 8 mana without a Beck isn't uncommon. It gives you the option to playing towards fusing a Beck // Call as opposed to making it a roadbump along the way.
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
Creatures: 32
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Essence Warden
1 Orochi Leafcaller
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Beck
3 Intruder Alarm
3 Prowess of the Fair
3 Dismember
3 Imperious Perfect
The sideboard is a little shaky, but I'm seeing Nykthos as a limited but extra Intruder Alarm: able to make a lot of mana and spark combos quickly.
4 Arbor Elf
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Imperious Perfect
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Orochi Leafcaller
4 Summoner's Pact
3 Prowess of the Fair
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
Maindeck Prowess of the Fair is really strong. I mean, really strong. At the worst (against the decks its effect is not really effective against), it's a 2-drop Elf that doesn't need to be sandbagged for the combo turn. At its best, it overpowers the advantage decks get by using heavy removal.
I don't have a sideboard just yet because I'm not actually sure what I'd want to bring in. My thoughts are mostly things to bolster the UWR matchup (the 4th Prowess, and I'm still attached to some copies of Bloodbond March, but that's just in theory) and perhaps something to replace Prowess at the 2-drop slot in those matchups where it's not needed.
Edit: I suppose I should contribute a bit with an update.
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Coiling Oracle
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Essence Warden
1 Orochi Leafcaller
1 Elvish Harbinger
4 Summoner's Pact
2 Flex Spots
17 Land
Cloudstone Curio and Intruder Alarm were just win more in testing. They weren't really necessary; even if I ended up whiffing on a Beck in the end, I usually had enough Elves and lords to make the difference.
4/2 split on Coiling Oracle and Elvish Visionary gives me the best of both worlds: Oracle early and Visionary late.
I'm not so sure what to do with my 4 flex spots (2 open now, 2 filled by Harbinger and Leafcaller). I'm honestly gravitating towards a Glittering Wish package for 2 reasons: I often win because of mising a Beck off the top in situations where I shouldn't, and it would allow me to preboard a bit against decks where I have a really bad game one (see UWR; I'd be able to Wish for my hate pieces early on).
Their functionality are slightly different. They both warrant testing I think.