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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    vote Mindreaver

    I think your semi-counterclaim already accomplished the painting a target on your back thing Rodemy Smile
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    @Terry: because Rodemy's claim of their roles not being in the same game is something I would like to make my own opinion on.
    That permission to share the result thing will backfire if everyone does it. All vanilla's will say ok, and the only ones who might not are town PR's that have not yet been outed.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I agree that Rodemy should fullclaim.
    I don't agree that Mind should claim his target immediately after. If he targeted a claimed PR then sure, but I don't see the point in outing yet another one.

    @Quixotic: why is there no mention of Kitbits in your Rodemy read?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I had a very long day guiding in Antwerp. Too tired to read now. I'll catch up tomorrow.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Hmz I'm pretty sure I was wrong about Grape.

    @KJ: why continue the pressure on Bur when he didn't fall for your trap here?
    Quote from Bur »
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Ok.

    Any chance you're a Miller? Like, in the result of a cop investigation on you... your alignment comes up as scum, but you're actually town?


    If I were Miller, I would've claimed already D1. arms crossed

    Wouldn't scum!Bur be a lot more careful in his answer?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Anyways, I have to head to bed. It's 1 AM here.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Your scumread of AG is based on Hunt being scum.
    You leave the Hunt wagon to vote AG with Hunt.
    Your behavior makes no sense. With that worldview, town!you would've stayed on Hunt and pushed for that lynch, BP claim or not. Especially since the link you made between those two only works in one direction.

    You really have no scum suspects that don't rely on Hunt being scum that you could have voted instead at that point?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Cantrip Rhand has been tunnelled on me most of toDay and has throw every little thing back at me. He's either scum or in a horrible tunnel and I'm frustrated trying to defend myself to him.

    I didn't want to lynch a low poster earlier in the phase, but at this stage I will happily lynch AG if it means I get a chance to survive.

    You jumped off Hunt onto AG when the Hunt wagon was still growing and yours was declining.
    Can you stop making stuff up now?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Ohhhhh. I am really dumb sometimes. That assumes they target me the night that I fire it off, but yeah. That is pretty provable.

    Well then I am a provable PR. Why is anyone voting for me at this point?

    Because I think you're lying through your teeth, Mr I don't want to lynch below the modline Day 1 but am voting AG anyways.

    @GJ: The way he describes it, it sounds like something scum cannot interfere with? How do you interfere with untargetable?
    Anyways, he's clearly making it up.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    @Rhand Of course my claim is unprovable, that is just a fact. It's not like a RB or a vig where town can see the evidence. And I'm not saying who I'll cloak ahead of time for obvious reasons. You seem to have a problem with the fact that I like to use a lot of words. This is not the first time you have had a problem with me explaining something in detail.

    Also from reading Overwatch you have a good knowledge of what is permissible in setups for balance. Do you view our abilities as a dichotomy?

    Did you forget you added that you cloak yourself now?
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.

    It's very easy to prove that. Anyone with a role that targets can test it. On you.

    I don't think you're a dichotomy, no. I've said so in reply to Cyan.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I took another look at neighbor chat of Overwatch. Hunt indeed said this:

    Quote from neighbor chat »
    I'm waiting for ANYONE to actually come at me hard. I do the most damage when I can look at people's pushes on me, but no one is touching me with a ten foot pole. That is telling me a few things: Either the scum are saving me until endgame to twist into a lynch, or it's a team of newer players that don't know me well.


    So at least he's telling the truth about that.

    @Hunt: I also saw you say this:
    Quote from neighbor chat »
    I am wondering if Shadow is scum and scared to say BOO to me after I caught him dead to rights last game. But I will have to poke him to find out.

    Which apparently was true. Can you go into more detail on your town read of Shadow this game? It looks to me like he (apart from RVS) took a long time to interact with you here as well?

    Quote from shadowlancerx »

    Rhand, why doesn't Grape's claim give you pause?

    Because he said in the same breath he claimed it that he cannot prove it. Which I think means he made it up.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    What's a WIM?
    Also, you should put your vote somewhere.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from fulcrum »
    Quote from Rhand »
    Gah this doesn't make sense. I don't see a world where both Grape and Hunt are scum. Two scum wouldn't both claim something protective right after one another, would they?
    And they're voting AG together now.
    I guess I can't convince you all to lynch Grape instead of Hunt? Pweeeeease?

    A compelling case would be an excellent start (unless you've already made one?).

    I did. #536 and the following conversation.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Gah this doesn't make sense. I don't see a world where both Grape and Hunt are scum. Two scum wouldn't both claim something protective right after one another, would they?
    And they're voting AG together now.
    I guess I can't convince you all to lynch Grape instead of Hunt? Pweeeeease?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Huntzilla »


    Town
    Rhand - Town reading him for the same reasons he was town reading me. Getting over always feeling he is scum, and nothing this game has pointed to a scum!Rhand mindset. Think back to our convo in the Neighbor chat Rhand.
    Gruffin - Natural question posing. Moved up my list as the day went on.
    Killjoy/Apocado - Comfortable with his questions and entrance. Apocado was, meh. Killjoy has been himself.


    Lean town
    Shadow - I think we both ended up town like we hoped...
    Mind - Claim puts him here. Before that I woulda lynched.
    Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
    TRSJT - Opposing my lynch today is not something I can see from a scum who isn't knowledgeable of me.



    LYNCH LINE

    Null
    GJ - I can at least understand his push on me. It doesn't look or feel malicious.
    Cantripmancer - Like I've said, I'm not convinced that Cantrip can't skate through on what he's posted today as scum. But it isn't enough to move him either way. I need more.
    Grapefruit - Feels... sneaky. Calculated responses and like he's holding back.
    Quixotic/Logic - What the hell has this slot done all game?


    Lean scum
    Fulcrum/Cythare - Has avoided making an opinion on my wagon. Reads as scared to push the mislynch.
    Bur - Fencesit on me seems pretty scummy from a guy with so much experience with me.

    Scum
    AG - See the PbPA I did
    Cyan - Mr. No Brakes now just needs me dead because he can't change opinion without looking foolish. Please for the love of god when I flip town murder his scum ass.




    Why did you literally copy my kitbits/rodemy read? And why say Rodemy is being his town self if your read didn't come from Rodemy but from Kitbits?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    I want to lynch AG because I see him as scum. Before I saw him as a buddy for Hunt, which still makes sense. In both scum cyan and scum Hunt world I see scum AG so it makes more sense to lynch him first in that case.

    Are you willing to lynch him without a claim? Because I'm pretty sure that's what is going to happen if we switch to AG now.

    Quote from Cyan »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Shadow or maybe I'm just town getting run up for playing a gambit?

    I'm very worried about getting run up as a compromise lynch. And I'm in a very bad spot this close to deadline so claim time.

    I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.


    This creates a flat dichotomy with Huntzilla's claim, in my opinion. Either one of them is lying, or, one of them(at leasT) is scum. My money is obviously on Hunt.

    You're a bit quick declaring a flat dichotomy in a 16-player game. Grape claimed a 1-shot ability. How is that incompatible with a BP?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    For Shadow: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/683065-twinborn-mafia-day-4-a-new-dawn-perfect-mafia?page=19

    Once my cruise season starts, my activity will drop immensely. It's something I'll always have, and it impacts my play bigtime.
    That's what you'll see in most of my games.
    The winterstop is almost over. The season starts again March 31st.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    @Hunt: do you think Cyan and AG are scum together?
    Can you provide a full t/s with reasonings?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Huntzilla »
    Claim time:

    I'm Ham, town bulletproof.

    Feel free to unvote anytime, and move onto AG or Cyan.

    Eh that’s quite the opposite claim of what I was expecting.
    I was reading Hunt as a strong PR that was trying to hide, much like in Overwatch.
    But as BP he should play the exact opposite way, trying to draw the NK.
    I’m going to re-read Hunt again.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I did say this in my case:
    Quote from me »
    His next posts are all fine. He asks questions. Of note: he thinks AG is town.

    Anyways, it's a weird remark you made there. Doesn't make me feel any better about you.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Killjoy »
    I really dislike Hunt's 526. The progression in it doesn't feel natural. Also the level of scumread he has here seems like he would have had those scumreads.

    Rhand is tunneling, but I like his pressure on Grape.

    Is Hunt/Grape/AG a thing? It might be a thing.

    How is putting pressure on someone you think is scum tunneling?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Rodemy »
    Quote from Rhand »
    I know I can't read you, so I'm happy that I got a read on Kitbits before you replaced into that slot.


    Knowing you cant read me, how do you feel about hunts townclear of me?

    He probably can read you? I see nothing malicious there.

    ---

    Re: what Bur said about his meta: I cannot imagine that town!Grape would pursue this line of play, knowing that it could burn out another town player if it works, and apparently net nothing if it doesn’t.

    For me, Grape should be the lynch of the Day. I would be ok with AG. I’m not voting Hunt.
    Deadline is approaching. Everyone should commit to one of the leading wagons or give a good reason not to.

    ---

    @Shadow: My most recent scum game is Predator Mafia I think.
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/626616-season-1-round-5-predator-mafia-game-over-arnold
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I know I can't read you, so I'm happy that I got a read on Kitbits before you replaced into that slot.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Okay. So tell me, is it worth having someone crumble under pressure to find out he's town? That sounds like a scum tactic to get one player that actually knows you to stop being engaged by abusing his meta.

    Hmm... I was actually under the impression that you were voting scum!Bur and kept your vote on him during the growth of town!Mind's wagon to look good later on, but now my conclusion is shifting to Bur being town if you're scum, and you voting him for malicious reasons.

    @Bur: weigh in here please. Do you think town!Grape would do that to you?

    @Anyone: I would like someone else than Grape to weigh in on Bur's meta.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Rhand I think my post in reply to your initial post better explains what I was doing with Bur. The key was the way he collapses under pressure as town. I wanted to see if I could force that reaction.

    Wrt to my GJ post I actually came out of it with a town read. A bit waffly, but a town read that has endured in the interim. And that's in the wall, I say it seems like it comes from town but ask for others (implying those familiar with GJ) to double check my read.

    Last thing Hunt butting in on RSJTs post wasn't a pure defense it also discredits SJT without engaging with the rest of the post. I would argue my apocado defense wasn't only defending him but drawing comparisons to others with similar behavior.

    But you say you have no scum meta to compare Bur with? And you kept voting him until the recent Hunt case while saying multiple times you don't like the votes below the modline.

    You come out with a very waffly GJ read. You start the whole summary by saying you don't know.

    You're ignoring a big part of my case too.
    Why does /barning you on your Bur case equal pocketing? And why does that make Hunt scum?
    And why feel the need to call me out on pursuing lhf and compare that to gj while you don't think that makes either of us scum?
    And why make a whole wall about GJ to explain a lean town read?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    So... Grapefruit.
    The reasoning for keeping his vote on Bur is bad:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Hot take of my own: Bur is actually scum.

    Our early banter was awful and I don't like his response to Gruffin in 81. I also think town!Bur would have reacted to having 3 votes even if they're RVS votes. I don't like completely ignoring it.

    Colder take Rhand is town despite the over-explaining in 34.

    No one reacts to having 3 RVS votes.
    And the “banter” he’s talking about is all RVS as well. Simply calling it “awful” does nothing. It won’t convince anyone Bur is scum and it won’t get a reaction out of Bur.

    When asked to explain, he gives this:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    With Bur the tone just feels different to the signup thread. Bur has been busting my chops for a while because I can't read him at all, but this is a bit different. It feels more forced I guess I'd say. Also I've seen Bur jovial in pre and post game, haven't seen the joking tone in a game proper yet. But that is a limited meta read so take it with a grain of salt if you have more experience with Bur.

    As for he 81 it's more that I don't see anything alignment indicative in Gruffin's 62 or 65. Gruffin is competent enough as scum to ask those base level questions. It feels very much like an unearned town read (that appears earned if you don't double check). I just can't see how you can town read someone for the two posts Bur pointed to.

    He has a meta read of Bur that he doesn’t really believe in.
    So all he has is the townclear of Gruffin. Townclearing people is something many were doing.

    On to that meta read of Bur: He says this:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    As for the second part Bur is much more invested in playing the game as scum in my experience. I have seen town!Bur fold under light pressure while scum!Bur plays a much stronger game. Even with it being not a real thing I'd expect Bur to reply to it as town because of that meta quirk.

    Bolded mine.
    But now he says this:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Rhand Bur lurks as town as well, but generally crumples really badly when he gets pushed. I've seen it happen in disinheritance here and in an offsite game. It's why I was tunneling him and trying to get him lynched earlier is I wanted to see his response. As town he posts under pressure but is resigned to his fate and known to self vote. I wanted to force his hand and see if I could get him to play to meta without revealing my intentions. If he got resigned to getting lynched I'd reveal this part of my meta read and try and stop the wagon. As scum I haven't seen him pushed hard because he has replaced out after early activity followed by lurking as scum in the games I have seen.

    Anyways can't wait to see how you're incorrectly reading me as scum this time.

    Bolded mine again. Grape was voting Bur based off meta he’s never experienced apparently.
    He was going to push him to show his town!meta, but he has no scum!meta to compare that with.
    Bad excuses for that early push.

    His next posts are about Bur (but not with Bur), until he makes a waffling post about GJ to show us all he has no read on him with a lot of words:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    So mini wall time, GJ is fascinating to me this game and I'm surprised he's garnered as little discussion as he has. I think he has some of the towniest posts (this side of Cantrip), but also some of the scummiest. So here is a cross section of some of the standouts to me taken out of order.

    Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.


    I don't really had a rationale. Bur was on tone + votes. Tone was the main thing because tone is all that has really happened so far. The fact that rvs votes aren't unvoting, and no one else is adding ontop of it goes to my point about Bur being seen as toxic to push from the mafia team.

    I love this post, I was pushing on Johnny for what I though was a contradiction in his and he doubles down on it. I'll get back to this later.

    Quote from Apocado »
    @GentlemenJohnny It isn't that I have lackluster posts, Its just in my personality to be more calm while I question others. My play usually picks up when I come up with a read. By the way, why do you dislike my last 2 posts?

    I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.


    Your opening made a psuedo bad impression with me, for making a post, and not reading all of the ~100 posts at the time. With at least half being RVS ***** votes, it would not have taken that much time to get over it. I feel like your tone is playing cautious right now, which while isn't inherently wolfy, does not feel appropriate. It feels like you are trying to post safely under the radar.

    Why do you think Mindreaver posts feel forced and insincere?

    I like this one too, but not as much. The mind wagon was going to come under pressure for forming so quickly and I like his pre-emptive pressure onto the most suspect vote on it. That said it could be a deflection as GJ is in the second worst seat on the wagon...

    Not a huge fan of Mindreaver right now. Shadow gets a little more equity. Cyan still Nai, Cantrip also gets some town equity.

    This post on the other had is just bleh... His votes on mind so that's not much of a revelation. Giving Shadow and Cantrip town+ for the recent posts isn't exactly a scorching take. I don't think Cyan has posted anything except a town+ for Cantrip so announcing you don't have a read on him isn't the most helpful take in the world.

    Kidbit, by the way is reading super pure so far. I think I am making this call too early, but hell, Ill go with it until I find a reason not to.

    So making this post after the more noticed hot take post is incredibly towny. As scum it would take away any credit he'd get for making the read that early and does nothing to remove the suspicion he'd face for making such bold early reads.

    Quote from Gruffinchops »
    Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
    Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?


    I am not. Unless the whole wolf team has no understanding of Bur, I would venture a guess that there are three townies on him. It is still early mind you, but the way it is going, I think that Bur is likely more town. He is also psuedo volume town telling, but that will come later.

    This is a post I hate. And it's the one that lead me to pressure him and got the response I liked in 157. So he's said Bur is town for his engaged/jokey tone and having 3 votes on him. Then says that he thinks all 3 on the wagon are town when asked about the obvious implication of there being scum on the wagon.

    That's quite the awkward twist of logic. And I know that I said I liked him doubling down on it earlier. I like the doubling down because I can't imagine scum would possibly ever do that. What a horrible hill to pick to die on. Bur having an all town wagon tells us nothing about his alignment, because town would know nothing about his alignment. So you can either look to clear Bur by saying scum wouldn't push him for a mislynch because they know his meta and that they'll look bad for it or clear his wagon by assuming they all know Bur's meta. You can't really have it both ways... If Bur's wagon is town, they would have no idea what his alignment is outside of cases stated and made.

    And then that get's us into another kettle of fish: GJ is sitting here making subtle meta based arguments to clear Bur and his wagon based on everyone having knowledge of that meta. There is a very large problem with this given that roughly a third of the game is completely new to this site and would have no clue about any of the subtle meta that GJ is using to try and clear people here...

    So long story short I have no clue what to make of GJ. A couple of his posts are the scummiest things I've seen here, but there are enough posts that strike me in such a town way that I'm more inclined to think he's town on the reasoning that I don't think scum GJ is doubling down on that horrible Bur/wagon meta argument. I think that stems from a town mindset of posting from the hip as thoughts come to you. I'd appreciate another set of eyes checking my work and making sure I'm not writing off scum as too scummy to be scum, but I think it just makes a lot more sense as town not obsessing over the smaller details.
    Why bother using so many words to describe a nullread?

    His next post is one I can’t shrug off. He says I’m setting up low hanging fruit, but apparently doesn’t think I’m scum.
    I also don’t get why he’s defending Apocado like this:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Rhand What about Terry's day chat focus is scummy?

    And what makes Apocado in particular Mind vote bad? There hasn't been much of a case beyond Catrips initial post and people saying his defensiveness with Shadow looks bad. So why does Apocado in particular and not Hunt, Cyan, or GJ look bad for it? You pretty much sheeped the existing argument too.

    I'm seeing a bit of mud being thrown at people who haven't posted much. They need to get in here and post but for the time being that reeked of setting up some low hanging fruit.


    His next posts are all fine. He asks questions. Of note: he thinks AG is town.

    Then he goes back to Bur:
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    Anyway onto my Bur case since almost everyone else has forgotten his existence his entry was joke oriented and to me didn't feel like town Bur. Others interpreted this as genuine town excitement for the game, which at the time was a fair interpretation. He then proceeded to fall off the face of the earth. Life is busy etc. etc. but I think town Bur would make more of an effort after showing that level of interest in the game. Scum Bur on the other hand I've seen replace out after early activity. On top of the activity and tonal read Bur also wasn't particularly town in page 2. Post 68 stands out to me as a particularly useless post that is trying it's hardest to seem engaged and solving the game.

    So what is the difference exactly? Town!Bur lurks and scum!Bur is active and then replaces out?
    Because in that case… this is town!Bur and you should not be pushing him anymore at that point.

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Cyan I'm going to ISO Hunt as I'd prefer not to lynch someone below the modline today and AG is pretty much there. Is there any particular reason you would rather hunt AG than Huntzilla?

    You know who’s below the modline? Bur.

    And then the Huntz case comes, in which Hunt is scum because of a connection to Shadow / AG and because you think he pockets you because he /barns your Bur read.
    That case is very weak.

    I dislike your TLDR:

    So TLDR: Huntz is inconsistent throughout and has some scummy moments. His reads lists don't track with my view of the game at all and don't seem to track with his in some cases. I think there is a semi obvious case that he was attempting to pocket me. And I think his interactions with Shadow and AG make them a plausible scum team. His underwhelming defence of AG to Terry is one of the harder to justify as town posts in the entire game. If one were to flip scum I would feel very strongly about pushing the other. Shadow less so, but he would be the next place I'd start looking.

    And of his top 7 picks for scum, two directly scum read him directly, one he attacked over a scum read, and one his vote hasn't budged from all game.

    The inconsistency is your only valid point.
    The pocketing is nonsense. If you don’t want people to believe in your Bur case, then why bother posting it?
    A possible connection with Shadow and AG does NOT make Hunt scum.
    The defence of AG to Terry is exactly what you did to me about Apocado.

    I don’t get why anyone is sheeping this case.

    TL;DR:
    Grapefruit pushes Bur based on meta he doesn’t know and holds on to that read until he makes his Hunt case, which is not a good case. His only good point is inconsistency. Everything else is calling Hunt scum by proxy (because of AG / Shadow) and accusing him of something he did himself (Hunt’s defense of AG is very much the same as Grape’s defense of Apocado earlier).
    He also has a tendency to post stuff that helps no one (a null-case about GJ; telling me I’m picking LHF while apparently he doesn’t think that’s a scumtell)

    vote: Grapefruit21

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Ok, I reread the whole game thoroughly. This is my current view of the game:

    Town
    Rhand
    Gruffin (nothing that changed my opinion)
    Cantripmancer (wide focus, follows up on most of his questioning lines, similar game view as me)

    Lean town
    Shadow (I really like how he tried to get people to commit to a Mind read when the wagon was getting big. I don’t like his pocketing though)
    Mind (rereading him put my mind at ease. He did a great job defending himself vs Cantrip while still hunting. I probably overreacted on his T/S waffling. + He claimed Vin)
    Kitbits / Rodemy (tone, inquisitive posts from kitbits. I’m happy I got that read in before Rodemy took over)
    Cyan (Took him a long time to start posting content, but now that he is, I like it)
    Hunt (Reads similar to our last game, where I correctly read him as town. There’s more, but I don’t want to go into that yet. I do hope “For Cyan, my love” isn’t a roleclaim lol)

    Null
    GJ (I still have no clue. Will hopefully become clear on later Days. Flips will help, he’s given a lot of opinions)
    TRSJT (His posting has improved. I like the pressure on Cyan, it made Cyan post better. I don’t understand why he’s still voting Cyan tho)

    Lean scum
    Fulcrum/Cythare (The only thing Fulcrum did on entry is saying he likes my 2 main scumspects)
    Quixotic/Logic (Logic never unvoted his RVS vote and quixotic’s Mindreaver vote is opportunistic)
    Killjoy/Apocado (Apocado’s Mindreaver vote was the worst of the lot. KJ is voting my main scumspect, but isn’t really trying to get him lynched)

    Scum
    Bur (Doesn’t follow up on all his questions, IIRC lurking is his scum!meta)
    AG (only calls people town and responds to stuff directed at him. Not inquisitive)
    Grapefruit (Deserves a post of his own. I’ll get to that)

    -----

    @Shadow:
    Do you have examples of you pocketing as town?
    Do you believe OMGUS is a scumtell?
    What is your current read on Terry? And Grapefruit?

    @Terry:
    Do you still think Cyan is scum after his last response to you?

    @Gruffin:
    How well do you know Grape? How sure are you that his Hunt case isn’t scum motivated?

    @AG:
    T/S with reasonings please?

    @Anyone:
    Does Bur lurk as town too? I seem to remember it’s his scum meta, but I’m not 100% sure.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I unexpectedly spent yesterday with my mom and my brother's baby.
    Lots of fun, but didn't help me to continue my reread :/
    I'll try to get it finished today, but it's my BF's day off, so I hope he doesn't want me to spend time with him :p
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Reread still in progress.
    I will probably finish tomorrow.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I think what I had with Mind's T/S was confirmation bias. His very first sentence was a waffle on GJ, which was supposed to be his top town read, and I read everything with colored glasses from there on. My brain went "gotcha" when I read that line about GJ. It reminded me immediately of Zomg.
    And then his read on me was full of falsehoods.
    Anyways, not lynching him with that claim, so
    unvote

    I'm pretty lost atm. I'm off to bed now. I'll take a fresh look at the game tomorrow.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    What is a Champ's rule wolf and a deep wolf?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    @Hunt: at that time, TRSJT had hardly posted and all of a sudden became active when the topic wasn't about people.
    Cantrip had a lot of good contributions before that.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Sorry for the lack of contributions. My daughter has been having health issues since Thanksgiving, and the doctors are finally conceding that they don't know what's going on and that she's not getting better, so Friday was getting some tests done and the weekend was as every weekend of mine seems to be: full.

    I know this isn't my normal textwall (don't hold your breath; that may still be inflicted on you), but I'd really like to start here:

    @Rhand: What do you think of Killjoy right now?

    Sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope they find out what's wrong soon so you can stop worrying :/

    About KillJoy: Saying that my post about Mind's T/S is bad while at the same time saying that Mind is scum is weird.
    Also, with what he said about the two of us, it seems to make more sense to have you above me in his own T/S, but that's just a detail.
    His T/S does reflect my own view of the gamestate, and that's usually a good sign.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    You put that in your notes as me pushing Hunt and Cyan?
    If you're town (which I doubt), then you have to work on your notemaking lol
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I must be misinterpreting your question. Are you asking me if I'm scum looking for a potential lynch?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    GJ: You’re explaining more why he could be scum now. Why oh why is he on top of your town reads?
    Kitbits: Using “probably” feels like you’re not sure yourself whether or not he is your own strongest tone read. That’s weird.
    Shadow: you seem a lot more sure of that read than you are of the GJ read.
    Me: I’ve mainly been pushing GJ, TRSJT, Grapefruit and now you.
    AG: the problem in your T/S is the “that may come from town” qualifier. If you really thought he was scum, you wouldn’t write that.

    Anyways, it's a general issue with your T/S: there's too much waffling going on there.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    unvote, vote: Mindreaver

    That T/S screams scum.
    First off, his GJ read: he puts him on top of the town pile and then waffles like crazy when explaining the read. Same for the Cantrip read, but to a smaller extent.
    Kitbits is "probably" the strongest tone read? Why add that qualifier?
    The Shadow read: what kind of plan are you looking for when hunting for scum Mind?
    The Hunt read smells like a scumbuddy.
    The Rhand read: Have you even read my posts? Those 3 are not who I've been pushing?
    The AG read: same as GJ but the other way around. He puts him on the bottom of the scum pile and then says that what he's doing might come from town.

    That kind of waffling in a T/S reminds me of Zomgarcwind's T/S in Overwatch.

    Okay I caught up, here is my thoughts on everyone so far. I do understand its the holidays and this day is gonna take longer than normal because of it but some people i just dont have reads on yet

    Town:
    Zomgarcwind
    Ophidia – early claim, that comes from someone desperate to make it a few days in rather than always die D1/N1. #174 could be scummy though, making the town assume the T:S ratios etc.
    Vaimes- This feels like town vaimes right now, he is trying to stop stupid wagons from starting and scum hunting for real scum not for the easy lynch and flip
    Rodemy- His behavior is the same behavior he has every day 1, even his scum game plays this way day 1. Im gonna stick him in the town pile for the day and look at him harder later down the line
    Huntzilla- Has not posted much content, most of his stuff feels PTAP. Could be Scum with Rod or Rhand #100 feels like coaching but his couple of other posts feel town
    D_V- Also hasn’t posted much, but as I reread I would start thinking something and he would say it, like his #113, literally 2 minutes ago I was thinking atog could be scummy because of his early posts then bam I read it.
    Cantripmancer- Had solid questions for everyone, while ive never played with him before I find posts like his first content post to not come from a scum unless that scum is wolfing.

    Null:
    Shadowlancerx- I need more posts to read him, but im usually pretty good at doing it. Im hoping that he can be sorted by 3/4 thru the day. #167 I liked a lot though, town!shadow doesn’t use OOG to win, Scum!shadow would.
    Scarbo- One post to let us know he would be back asap, nothing to go on.
    Kittythegoddess- 1 Word this game, I need more!
    red_0mega- Seems to play kinda cautiously, I cant tell if its refusing to name leads because he has none or if he overanalyses

    Scummy:
    Atogoholic- those few posts just seemed opportunistic. Why did you make them Atog?
    Ghosting- You feel like scum trying to get wagons started, maybe this is you just hunting since it benefits you this game. Then you pre-emptavely post games, including a micro scum and neutral game. I think I just have a problem with you including a neutral game, are you hinting that you rolled it AGAIN? Like I think your wagon could be just bull*****, but I dunno, link me a non-micro scum game maybe?
    Rhand- Seems like he is trying to hunt, but might just be that wine. Definitely appearing to make himself tied to Atog. Has been moving his vote around quite a bit. TSTBS or Wolfing?

    My vote is going to one of you, please answer my questions so I can decide which one
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    Second GJ what's scummy about Cythare? They have not made any impression on me this game.

    After that whole talk we had about LHF and GJ going after the low postcounts, this is what you need to ask? Confused
    And why do you ignore the fact that he didn't even answer your question?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    That post sounds like a huge backtrack with way too many words.

    I'm null on Bur. I'm simply trying to understand what Shadow (says he) is seeing.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    ]No. This is my second game for over ten years

    Meh. You sound the same as Avalon, but without a town game to compare that tells me nothing :/

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Hi Rhand, if I thought that was the only remotely scummy thing you have done and am far more convinced that Bur is scum than I'm convinced you are I would have no reason to move my vote to you. Also you weren't the only person who was talking about lynching some of the lurkers, GJ was discussing it in more explicit terms and if you're so convinced that targeting "low hanging fruit" then you should be voting for GJ for twice suggesting we lynch from the bottom up (aka lynch the lurkers).

    I'm also not conceding almost everything considering I have a town lean on Terry given the posts I quoted before. Not a strong one but a lean.

    Anyway onto my Bur case since almost everyone else has forgotten his existence his entry was joke oriented and to me didn't feel like town Bur. Others interpreted this as genuine town excitement for the game, which at the time was a fair interpretation. He then proceeded to fall off the face of the earth. Life is busy etc. etc. but I think town Bur would make more of an effort after showing that level of interest in the game. Scum Bur on the other hand I've seen replace out after early activity. On top of the activity and tonal read Bur also wasn't particularly town in page 2. Post 68 stands out to me as a particularly useless post that is trying it's hardest to seem engaged and solving the game.

    So you’re saying that going after LHF is only remotely scummy?
    Also, I never said that lynching the low posters = going after LHF. GJ actually has a point there: scum often hide in the low postcounts on this site. You’re putting words in my mouth there.

    Quote from Huntzilla »
    @Rhand

    So the backpedal was "oh I didn't mean Hunt at all" but only after beingredients called out for it.
    I wouldn't even have noticed because it was a toss away comment that at first meant nothing.

    But Shadow's vote feels right there. I would go on the record saying I like it. I'm not sold on Logic being scum, as it could simply be a mix up, but pressuring there is good to me. Hanlon's Razor seems to apply though.

    What’s Hanlon’s Razor?

    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    I'm concerned with Bur. He came into this game and was playful and made some posts, and then disappeared. And when Avalon ended, he made a big point about his scum meta being so bad because he just goes full inactive. Now, his entrance goes against that, but the fact that he is aware of it, and then completely dropped off just...ugh.

    Now this gets a little fuzzy, but I feel like Grapefruit being scum makes sense alongside Bur. He seems too sure of Bur being scum, knows Bur's propensity for a bad scum game, and general could use that to his advantage. Additionally, I rather like Rband clocking Grapefruit overall, and could see him as scum without Bur too.
    Vote Grapefruit

    How does it make sense for scum!Grape to keep his vote on scum!Bur while there’s a lot of other stuff going on and nothing from Bur?

    Quote from Cyan »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Hi Shadow, let me follow your logic for a second. You're now worried that Bur is scum. You are worried for similar reasons to what I've been saying for the whole game. Which has you worried that I am turbo busing Bur.

    To resolve this you want to lynch me. Which reveals nothing about Burs alignment.

    Seems like a bad plan to me.


    Lol what? Unvote, Vote Grapefruit

    I would like it if you would use more words to defend your stance here, but Thumbs Up

    That's weird, I was going to do some VA, but it just posted that. Ignore the quote VC, which I think is wrong because I'm pretty sure Mindreaver unvoted. I'm pretty sure GJ's vote is on me not kitbits. I kind of want to take a closer look at the Mindreaver Wagon and the non-voters first. Besides the non-voters, Grapefruit, AtheistGod and Logic have all had their votes on Bur, Bur and Apocado, respectively, from their first posts (which I need to look into).
    My reads on my VC analysis concerns
    Grapefruit: I'm actually liking where Grapefruit is going with things. At first his vote staying on Bur from the beginning seemed weird, but I think he's actually confident in it. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but his confidence alleviates some of my laziness concerns. They aren't afraid to state a different opinion than the crowd. Overall pretty good posting. I always like that they aren't sold on GJ.
    AtheistGod: On the other hand, AG's posts are exactly what I expect to see from scum that left their RVS vote on the whole day so far. Very little or even none of what AG has posted this game is actually informative or original. There seems to be very little effort being put forth. AG does not look town to me from his Post Analysis.
    Logic: Has left his original RVS vote on, but has been putting in some effort and been battling access issues. I'd like to see more from him, but lean town.
    Shadow: What drew my attention from the VC was his non-voting status, but I see in his Post Analysis that he has voted more than most, which makes me feel ok. I feel like one of town's main weapons are votes and I see Shadow using them, but his unvote of Mindreaver makes me uncomfortable because it feels insincere (see post #233). It gives me a slight sense of light scum distancing, with out pushing too hard. I'm not sold on shadow. I'll give him Null for now.
    Cythare: Two total posts with zero content... dead weight or scum

    I'm going to look at the Mindreaver Wagon when I have another break.

    Didn’t you say that you thought Mind was town? That doesn’t jive with your Shadow read at all.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Rhand's assertation that I'm not talking about anything but the mechanics in #192 and #194 is pretty far off, considering I feel like I've already spent too much time focussing on my concern with Gruffin's self-consciousness. I haven't been fully invested in this game because it was go-time in my other one. That one finished and I'm ready to put some more time in this one. I'm going to go back a re-read Mindreaver considering what I was able to discern from his scum game in the last game we were in. If get the heebee jeebies on him, I would be fine being a counter wagon. I love a good Day 1 Vote Off. Heck I'll be the counter wagon to anyone, as long as I feel like they are scum.

    Do you have a town game that I can look at?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Oooookay, but you can question and even pressure other players while still committing your vote to your highest scumspect. Is RSTJ scummier to you than Mind?

    About par. But I like to put my vote where my tongue is. It gives more pressure.
    Anyways, I think I found scum in Grapefruit now, and that read is stronger.

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Hmmm AG can have some town points for now too.

    @Shadow if you want to wait till Mind replies it's fine, but if you can go into the reasoning behind your unvote I'd appreciate it.

    After that whole post you made about me, you’re giving AG townpoints for a post where he calls me town?

    When Cantrip asks you to explain, why do you not mention that you don’t disagree with the Rhand read?
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Cantrip I liked his take on GJ, Kit, and Mind. There are some parts of it that make it's clear he's not 100% caught up, but it's a good entrance.

    For example I don't think scum AG comes in with the half suspicion onto Mind. I'd expect either to join to wagon or ignore it. Mentioning it like that in passing seems much more likely to come from town. I think Kit is town and so does just about everyone else, given that I don't think scum AG enters the thread with a naked scorching hot take that Kit is scum.

    I will give you that the random Cyan mention is strange though.


    @Cyan: what part of the AG post makes no sense?

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Rhand Apart from leaving the escape hatch I don't see Apocado's vote as worse than a barn. But pointing out that escape hatch is fair.

    As for Terry that just isn't factual. He had a focus on Gruffin even before Mind mentioned the Day Chat slip.

    Quote from Gruffinchops »
    @Bur
    Let's try this instead:
    Do /you/ think I'm town or not based upon what I've already posted?
    Why do you care what he thinks?


    and

    Quote from Apocado »
    ^^Whoops. Meant to press preview Gaaaaaaaaaah

    But since I'm here: SJT, do you feel as if Huntzilla was voting No lynch intentionally or as a joke? About your other 2 posts:

    1. Why did you unvote onto Kitbits so quickly? Do you feel there is something off about them?
    2. Are you suspicious of Gruffin?
    1. All part of me catching up and doing RVS stuff
    2. Actually I am. To me, I find that someone caring about a player's read on themselves (Gruffin in this case) at this stage is a bit suspicious. I was kind of hoping he'd answer (#121) before I explained it, but it was really more of a statement than a question, so whatever.


    I was also slightly pinged by Gruffin asking others to give their reads on them so Terry latching onto that rang true for me. And jumping at the "slip" and running with it showed a town confirmation bias mindset more than anything else to me. Now I disagree with Terry on Gruff and think she is pretty towny, but her record isn't spotless. And I'm reasonably comfortable that Terry is town as well at this point.

    I completely concede the hunt point. It's close to a barn, but better. As for GJ I thought he had voted and not just expressed an agreement with the case.

    As for the low hanging fruit your channelling of Boromir is correct, but low hanging fruit doesn't pick itself and you were definitely positioning to pluck some of the easier ones.


    You're conceding almost all of it now, but you did a great job misrepresenting me there.
    I don't like the wording on your last sentence. If what I'm doing is "definitely positioning to pluck some of the easier ones", then your vote should be on me. Town doesn't pluck low hanging fruit, and your use of the word "definitely" should mean I am sure scum to you.

    unvote, vote: Grapefruit21
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    @Cantrip: "If that's true, why push a counterwagon when Mind's wagon is already established and going somewhere?"
    Because I don't want the whole thread to focus on 1 guy while we can simultaneously explore other avenues.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    @GJ: I'm getting more and more comfortable with you. I actually didn't realize how alike our reads are before you mentioned it. That's a good sign.

    @Mind: so it's not the townclears but the tone / addendum's that bother you. Why not say that in the first place?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Terry isn't talking about anything else. Talking about the setup instead of behavior is a huge red flag.

    Have you seen Apocado's vote?
    Quote from Apocado »
    I'll have to read Mindreaver's past games later. To me, their posts feel insincere and forced. As for now: Vote: Mindreaver.

    This is nothing. He even gives himself an out for later on.

    Hunt gives a real reason (snipped out the Mind quote):
    Quote from Huntzilla »

    Self conscious.
    Upset over a little pressure.
    Pointing finger around the room saying looookkkk.

    Unvote
    Vote Mindreaver


    Cyan agrees with Cantrip and votes. There's nothing wrong with a /barn. That said, I do think Cyan is likely scum because he hasn't produced a single independent thought.
    GJ isn't voting him?

    I'm not throwing mud. I'm calling people out for bad posts and bad votes.
    I'm too lazy to make a meme, but imagine there is one here that says "One does not simply.... Set up low hanging fruit"
    Someone is or is not low hanging fruit. You don't create that.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    Gah we should've sticked to Q3+Shadow after all :/
    I'm sad that Proph rolled Merlin. I think that's what caused him to not post. As Merlin, crafting the analysis posts that I was looking for from him would be a heavy chore.
    And that's what took me off Mind, which I should've never allowed myself to do.
    Although I feel like I played well and was one of the engines to keep the game rolling, I also think I'm to blame for our loss by being too sure of my reads in the end.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Gah my post from yesterday is not here OMG
    Bleh, it was full of quotes.
    I'm not gonna bother doing all the quotes again.

    @Hunt: re:#108: where's the backpedal? I don't see it.
    What do you think of Shadow's Logic vote in #110?

    I don't like Apocado's entrance at all in #112.
    Not liking Terry's entrance either in #119.
    It's weird that Apocado only reacts to Terry's entrance and not to anything else that happened in the game.
    Terry's vote in #141 is opportunistic.
    Apocado's bandwagon vote on Mind in #159 is bad.

    @Mind: why did you not respond to my #99?

    Cantrip declaring me town makes me nervous :/
    But I like his Mindreaver vote, so giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.
    @Cantrip: if you're scum, don't you dare pocket me again :p

    @GJ (re:#137): all Cythare did was a ptap. How do you get a scumread out of that?
    Also, the Cyan thing was what bothers me the most about you. I always say what I think, I didn't even think of ignoring it to use it to catch you later on.
    About the @Mindreaver part in your post: you explain him about offsite mechanics and then call his vote a stretch. Does that mean you think Mind is scum casting a vote like that?
    Why did you not answer my #106 until Cantrip asked for it?

    @Cyan: do you have any other reads than a townread on Cantrip?

    I'm not a big fan of the whole daychat discussion. Either there is daychat and then the whole thing is null, or there isn't and then Gruff is town. But we'll never know unless Gruff flips. Useless discussion. And apparently the only thing Terry is talking about.

    T/S:

    Town
    Rhand
    Gruffinchops (Asks good questions)

    Lean town
    Cantripmancer (Great posts, but I’m a bit wary because of our last game together)
    Kitbits (Good reactions to my early pressure, inquisitive posts)
    Grapefruit21 (Gut)
    Shadowlancerx (Mimics my thoughts a lot, but also wary because of our last game together)

    Null
    AtheistGod (Has he posted?)
    Huntzilla (Giving him more time. My gut actually wants to place him at lean scum, but I always scumread him and am trying to step out of that)
    Cythare (only a ptap post)
    Bur (Can’t remember much from him)
    LogicoftheVI (His posts go both ways)
    Gentleman Johnny (I was hoping to get a real read out of my push, but I have no clue)

    Lean scum
    Cyan (Isn’t asking questions)
    Apocado (Bad entrance, not inquisitive, bad vote on mindreaver)

    Scum
    Mindreaver (All has been said)
    TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Bad entrance and too much focus on Daychat instead of players)

    unvote vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
    I'm also on the Mindreaver wagon in spirit and wouldn't mind an Apocado lynch either.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    I know I've gotten scum!you lynched and that I have pushed town!you when i was scum. What I can't recall is that I supposedly never vote you when we're both town. That's just weird.

    We are talking about RVS votes here. Do you really think anyone cares how many votes someone has before RVS voting in a 16-player game? And if the player they're RVS'ing is lhf or not?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Have I really never voted you in a game where we're both town? That's just weird lol.
    Must mean you're scum then OMG

    Can you explain your rationale better how 3 people voting for Bur makes him town while those 3 people are also likely town? I don't get that.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I don't think voting order matters anymore.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Why is no one using their votes in a serious manner?
    Voting analysis is gonna be difficult later on if everyone sticks to their RVS vote when RVS is over.

    Quote from Mindreaver »

    God damn it, I hate it when I agree with GJ. I don't like a lot of Shadow's reasons for anything (I *feel* this way, I like his *tone*), it might just be early, but these are all really unqualified answers. I'm also coupling that with most/all of his posts are townclearing people. So bad reasons + all townclears = "made up".

    That said, I hate shadow's interactions with Bur. The "Why am I town?" stuff reaks of coaching. Like "shadow stop, you don't have reasons". So that's something to look back on if we see either flip.

    So many new faces. @[email protected], I'm definitely confusing the two of you already. Do you both play together often? How many time have you played with Kit/Bur? Enough to be able to meta read them this early?

    I really like Kit so far. @Kit thoughts/past experience on Logic? Not able to really get a feel for him yet, and I'd like your thoughts.

    @Rhand, do you think GJ is scum? What would that mean regarding his comments to Cyan and Burs wagon? You highlighted them, but is GJ bussing partners there, or trying to throw shade at town?

    Why do you hate agreeing with GJ?
    Why do you not like Shadow's townclears, but you're ok when GJ does it?

    About the @Rhand: let GJ respond first pls
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @Rhand I was using our because it was interacting with me. As for my quality I'm not really qualified to judge the quality of my banter because I of course think it's brilliant when it's probably stilted as hell in actuality.

    This made me laugh Smile


    As for the second part Bur is much more invested in playing the game as scum in my experience. I have seen town!Bur fold under light pressure while scum!Bur plays a much stronger game. Even with it being not a real thing I'd expect Bur to reply to it as town because of that meta quirk.

    Really? I've never noticed that from Bur. But still, it was RVS. That's not real pressure?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Kitbits »
    Quote from Rhand »
    You're quick to jump on people. I understand the what's suspicious part, but why add the "Your own post is also an RVS post with no vote."? He did vote in his first RVS post.
    Sounds like mudslinging to me.
    You misunderstand me. I am aware Grape made a vote, and so did almost everyone who had "made posts with no vote" in the thread. I never once said Grape did not vote, nor did I say there was anything scummy about his post. I'm only asking Grape to clarify his statement and offering a counter that he made a non-vote post and therefore it is not necessarily scummy.

    If grape was talking about players not voting, he should have said that rather than saying, specifically "posts without votes" but then the only person I saw that posted and did not vote was GJ so I still don't get where he's coming from.

    You're the one quick to jump on me.

    Ehm you start with “you misunderstand me” and end with “You’re the one quick to jump on me”.
    What is it? Do you believe I am misunderstanding what you said or do you believe I’m looking for something to quickly jump on? Because those two statements don’t mesh.
    I’m not sure what that says about your alignment tho.

    Hottake: Kitbits is town.
    So is Bur

    You’re quick to clear people. It’s page one, and you’re writing this without doubts.

    Quote from Cyan »
    Quote from Huntzilla »
    Vote No Lynch...

    Hey Shadow, look what I'm doing.

    Oh, *****, GJ's in here.

    Unvote.

    Well, old reliable it is
    ...

    Vote Bur


    Stuff like this is why everyone always thinks you are scum.


    Hmmm

    Saving this one for a rainy day Wink

    What’s the purpose of this? Are you planning to launch a cyan attack later or something?

    Quote from Bur »
    Hottake: Kitbits is town.
    So is Bur


    Why is Kit town? Why am I town?


    Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.


    This sounds to me that you’re convinced there’s scum voting Bur now? Why are you not putting pressure on the people voting Bur then?

    Oh I like this guy:
    Quote from Gruffinchops »
    Good tone + you got three votes. And everyone and their grandma knows how easy you are to push as mislynch fodder.
    Are you suggesting that there are scum pushing Bur as a mislynch right now? If that’s so, who on his train is scum and why?


    This is a great post. I totally missed that in Logic’s post:
    Quote from Kitbits »
    Quote from LogicoftheVI »
    Bur's train didn't feel like anyone pushing for a lynch but that doesn't bean there couldn't be scum on the train.

    Hunt and Shadow's interactions does not seem like aligned pair. I get the feeling they're trying to figure one another out. T/T or T/S?
    "Figure one another out," if true, inherently means T/T. Do you really feel they're trying to figure one another out, or do you feel one is trying to figure the other out and the other is trying to pocket them/pretend to figure them out?

    @Kitbits: how experienced are you?

    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Hot take of my own: Bur is actually scum.

    Our early banter was awful and I don't like his response to Gruffin in 81. I also think town!Bur would have reacted to having 3 votes even if they're RVS votes. I don't like completely ignoring it.

    Colder take Rhand is town despite the over-explaining in 34.

    “Our” banter was awful? You think you were awful as well?
    And how does not reacting to 3 RVS votes in a 16-player game make someone scum?

    unvote vote: Gentleman Johnny
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    vote yes
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    To explain in more words: when I read his post, my reaction was "oh, did Grapefruit accuse others for not voting while he's not voting himself? That's bad."
    If I wouldn't have looked back, that would've made Grapefruit scummy in my eyes. But then I did read back and saw he was voting, so Kit's accusation is baseless and serves only to make Grapefruit look bad.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    By throwing an unnessecary accusation in that question to Grapefruit.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Quote from Kitbits »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    GJ loves to no lynch (or at least has the reputation of loving it). As for the relation to shadow, Huntzilla "caught" shadow with a reaction test based on no voting in Bare Bones before he replaced out. Caught in quotations because Shadow didn't get lynched for ages after that.
    Sort of realized that after reading GJ's sig (after I asked). Still like to hear from the 2 I questioned.

    I had not noticed you posted right before me earlier. What exactly are you finding suspicious? Your own post is also an RVS post with no vote.

    My vote is random. It's weird that he didn't vote no lynch, but since he votes that as both alignments, not doing it isn't alignment telling either.

    You're quick to jump on people. I understand the what's suspicious part, but why add the "Your own post is also an RVS post with no vote."? He did vote in his first RVS post.
    Sounds like mudslinging to me.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 2: The Broken Skies
    Sup scrubs?

    No no lynch vote?
    vote: Gentleman Johnny
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I would vote yes to that too.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    It's actually funny. I post drunk and a wild Cantrip appears. I should do this more often. The game might actually start moving!
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    /barn Terry completely, but there's nothing new there.
    I'm hoping AG does Q3+Terry.

    @Cantrip: I'm too drunk I guess. In my world you're a dichotomy with AG because of Osie, but since you put Osie as one of the possible people to be Q3+1, in your world that dichotomy obviously doesn't exist. So meh.
    At any rate, walk me through your gamestate. Who is town, who is scum? Why?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    Doesn't Q3+shadow fail if D_V is town?

    It does. Osie is blabbering. Just like Cantrip btw. Town!cantrip would not like Q3+AG.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I guess we need AG in here to propose a team. And Iso to prod. This game is stalled like no tomorrow.

    I'm also very drunk from goood wine. Good wine rocks. You should all try it.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    Are you asking me? I think Proph. We've been over that.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    @AG, Osie, Shadow: are you all scumreading Cantrip?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    @Iso: can you please prod Vaimes, Proph, Cantrip, D_V, AG and Osie?

    @Everyone: if we do Q3+1, who would for you be acceptable as the +1?

    For me: AG > Terry > Shadow

    @Proph: can you provide your latest scum game for mindreaver please? I can't remember one off the top of my head.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    Meanwhile scum are lurking hoping we eat ourselves out of paranoia.
    Seriously, where is everyone?

    I think we should stop talking about Oberon. If we win, we don't want scum to know who Oberon is. (another reason why I like AG)
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I still think you're more likely town than scum, so no.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    Reading this all, I think I'm now more comfortable with Q3 + Terry than Q3 + Shadow.
    Or still Q3 - Proph + Shadow and DV with the hopes I read Proph / Mindreaver correctly.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Well I like having a plan at least. I'm going to take the night and re-read Proph and Rhand. If I'm right and Rhand was the fail, then this plan hands the game to scum. But I'll re-evaluate.

    @Rhand - is Proph's lurking/not analyzing really that much of a scum tell? Any thoughts you'd like to share would be helpful.

    Yes it is. It wasn't at first because there literally wasn't anything to analyze, but town!Proph would get energized by having stuff to analyze.
    He would critically think about my analyses and make his own.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    No, that's fine. He thinks Proph is scum, so removing the scum from Q3 then adding shadow/D_V only results in one failure. I'm inclined to agree with him, actually. Proph has just... stopped posting altogether which is nagl for him. He's always told me he loses all energy as scum later on in the game. And he just... doesn't seem to care here. Like. In lylo in the crossover game we played with MU last year he tried to solve the game, at least, and almost got it right before we mislynched him because of the deadline. Frown

    Here he's just. Not doing anything even though we're about to lose. If he's town I'm going to be a bit cross that we're getting nothing at all from him. (I'll get over it though. Life happens. Tongue )

    I agree completely. I understood him earlier when he said there was nothing to analyse because that does demotivate Proph.
    But now we do have stuff to analyse. Lots of it. And he's not doing it. That is his scum meta.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I took out Proph Teach
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I did an Iso of Brinatoo.

    * Vaimes: town (follows DV)
    * Wants Q1+1 for Q2 (which failed)
    * D_V: town at first. Pushes for an auto-include of him in quests. Drops him after counterclaim. Then thinks he’s the Q2 fail vote over shadow
    * Mind: town (unscripted approach to Q1 proposal)
    * Silver: town (Q2 failure + meta)
    * Shadow: lean town (by default because he thinks DV failed Q2 over him)
    * Proph: scum (“gross” after the Q3 fail. He thinks Proph or me failed it)
    * Cantrip: town (no explanation or earlier mention)
    * Osie: null (no explanation or earlier mention. I translated “meh” to null, that’s all he ever said about him)

    And then comes the proposal:
    Vaimes, Mind, Silver match his reads.
    Rhand, Proph makes sense since he thinks one of us failed Q3, and he’s going for Q3+1.
    But Osie? He never mentioned anything else but “meh” (and that “meh” was part of the reason to say no to a proposal earlier). He says he would swap him out for Cantrip, which makes a lot more sense in his earlier reads.
    He never considers Terry, AG or shadow.
    Terry and AG he didn’t even bother to get a read on the whole game.
    And Shadow should be the logical choice for him since he thinks DV failed Q2.

    Yeh I’m convinced. Brinatoo is scum, and by proxy so is Osie.

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Avalon Mafia (Game Over - Camelot's Downfall)
    I understand your paranoia. It's hard to trust anyone in a game without flips :/

    DV already announced he was going to think I was the fail vote. He couldn't go back on that.
    Most of my scumreads come from POE. One of them is unknown by the other scum. It's very well possible that scum!D_V put that one on there without realizing, so in his worldview, he might have put 2 scum on there instead of 3. Or he did put 3 scum on it... it's not like they lose if that gets voted through Wink

    What Terry and shadow did can very well come from town: they don't want a quick no hammer because that gives us less to analyse as in that case many players don't vote at all.

    Cantrip just confirmed himself as scum to me. Right after my post where I explain that Osie can't be town in a world where AG is town, he says he would be ok with Q3 + AG while voting yes to Q3 + Osie.
    Posted in: Mafia
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