Just thought I'd drop by and weigh in.
Personally, Hellrider is nice for some reach but I don't feel my Riku deck can really take advantage of his ability. The card seems more designed for a token/swarm deck, rather than the extra tokens you get from Riku.
I do agree Nim Deathmantle is powerful, but the cost on it is rather prohibitive. Essentially you'll be locking yourself out of 4 mana every turn just to make sure you can use it. And that reserve mana is probably wasted if you can't convert it to something before your next upkeep. (Deadeye Navigator flickers and the like) So depending on how many instants and creature abilities you have, I would tread carefully with using the deathmantle. If you're looking for a similar kind of recursion, I would highly recommend the Mimic Vat instead. It's much less awkward to deal with, and you can save your dudes under it for zero mana cost. And as an added bonus you can save creatures from other players under it too.
As for the "epic ramp spell", the card was clearly designed for EDH but I'm worried that it won't carry through with its intended effect. Where as Kodama's/Cultivate/Explosive Vegetation /Skyshroud Claim help you ramp, I feel the new spell will probably paint a bull’s-eye on your dome. Getting to 14 or 21-27 mana on Copy (Depending if you have mana rocks out or not) will definitely give you access to playing whatever spell you want, and your opponents will probably recognize this. If you resolve the spell and live to your next turn, it feels like a "win-more" scenario.
TL;DR Depends on how competitive your playgroup is.
Yeah, currently I'm running the Deadeye Navigator + Zealous Conscripts + Conjurer's Closet Combo in my deck. And you are correct. If you flicker a creature put into play with Sneak Attack, it's a new instance of the creature and you do not have to sac it at the end of the turn.
Hi all!
I'm looking for some ideas on building a group hug deck centered around Riku instead of Zedruu. The general deck strategy would be to help everyone out and police the board a little bit until you can hit a win-con (Like insurrection). Any help is appreciated. I'm not sure what other win cons exist. This is probably the least competitive deck I've put together so I'm a little out of my element trying to design something more social. Budget isn't an issue so include any cards you think are relevant.
Before I get too crazy, do you have a budget for this deck? I'll assume you don't to start but you can always scale back on my suggestions.
Mana base
Pretty much the unsung hero of any deck. Without it you sit with a lot of dead cards in your hand you wish you could play, which I don't think is very fun.
Lands Plateau/Sacred Foundry/Arid Mesa - Probaly the most expensive Cards you can get for yourself, but these provide the fastest start to your mana. The Arid Mesa can help you look for the other two lands here and bring them in untapped. If you do have both of those lands out already, you can go looking for whatever else you need.
Other options: Rugged Prairie / Ancient Amphitheater/Battlefield Forge/Boros Garrison/Clifftop Retreat
While these aren't quit as good as your top tier options, they are still pretty reasonable at helping you have the right mana. Mostly there's an extra penalty or condition for their use, whether they come in tapped or deal damage to you for receiving specific colored mana.
The other reason to run more lands that help you fix your mana base, is it gives you more leeway to play other utility lands.
Utility: Slayers' Stronghold - Straight from Avacyn Restored, this lets you get more out of your threats sooner. Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion - Double strike can enable a lot of shenanigans and a lot of damage!
Creatures Firemane Angel-While a bit expensive mana-wise, she fits your theme and she's hard to get rid of permanently. Silverblade Paladin - Gives doublestrike to anyone. Makes Gisela really scary. Razia, Boros Archangel - A fun angel. A little expensive mana-wise but she might save one of your other creatures. Mother of Runes - An amazing card. She can protect your creatures from damage or help get your angels past would-be blockers. She probably won't survive too long however since she is a large threat. Sun Titan/Inferno Titan - Not as related thematically but always very powerful cards to play.
Enchantments and Artifacts Martyr's Bond - Really makes your opponents leery of attacking you, or blowing up your stuff. Swiftfoot Boots - The Bigger Cousin to Lightning Greaves. These give Hexproof as opposed to shroud. Run both to protect Gisela. Sensei's Divining Top - EDH Staple. Helps fix your card draws and can get you that extra card when you really need it. Mind's Eye - Gives Card draw in colors that don't normally get it.
Instants/Sorceries Oblation - It's a little bit mean, but this will tuck threats back into their library. Also note under regular rules, Generals will also go into the library, not back into the command zone. Cloudshift - Another Avacyn Restored Card Wrath of God/Terminus/Day of Judgement/Austere Command/Blasphemous Act - It's good to play a few Boardwipers. Sometimes there is just too much on the battlefield and these are a good way of dealing with that.
I'm not a big fan of Strata Scythe outside of mono colored decks. I just don't feel the value is there unless you think you will get enough bonuses from lands that opponents control that are the same as the one you've chosen.
I'm sure I'm missing more but maybe this will give you a little bit to think about =)
Here are a few I thought of but it's more of the control route than aggro voltron: Creatures Iona, Shield of Emeria - Not sure how your playgroup feels about lockdown/control. Obviously something for the top end of your curve. Avacyn, Angel of Hope - Saves your stuff from most wraths other than Black Sun's Zenith. Continues your indestructible theme. Scavenging Ooze - Pretty good Graveyard hate. Not sure how much if it you need in your playgroup. I see you already have Relic of Progenitus. Yavimana Elder - Not sure what your thoughts are on this card but it's better card advantage than the Sakura-Tribe Elder, however it doesn't ramp like the latter card. Karmic Guide - It's a little expensive but she brings someone back from the grave yard, and is pro-black as an added bonus. Woodfall Primus Another one of my favorites. Bigger acidic slime. He'll probably take out 2 things unless exiled. You can also sac this guy to the Birthing Pod to pull up Iona.
Lands Temple of the False God - Easy Ramp Reflecting Pool - Mana Fixing Gavony Township - A decent place to dump extra mana. Also combo's with Woodfall Primus to provide additional value. Oran-Rief, the Vastwood - Slows down your mana base a little but works well at making your dudes a little bit tougher. Also combo's with Woodfall Primus. Flagstone of Trolkir - Discourages Land Destruction Dust Bowl - Take out important lands. Works well with Flagstone of Trolkir. Wasteland / Stripmine - Depends on your playgroup's meta. Good for taking care of annoying utility lands.
Artifacts Coalition Relic - Ramp/Fixing/Mana banking Crucible of Worlds - Works well to counter discard effects. Let's you re-use your fetch lands and and of the land destruction effects mentioned above. Mind's Eye - Helps with Card-draw. A fairly reliable source of drawing for only with an easy to meet condition. Watch out for artifact hate though.
Instants/Sorceries Tooth and Nail- Another Creature cheater / tutor to go with your Chord of calling. Less restrictive than the triple green. Can combo Avacyn and Novablast Wurm. Afterlife / Bramblecrush - Not sure how much additional removal you'll need. Skyshroud Claim / Farseek / Explosive Vegetation - Depends how much ramping/fixing you feel you need, I think these are pretty exceptional. The first two can tutor up your Savannah and Temple Garden.
Enchantments Martyr's Bond - This was mentioned before by Gamazon, but I think it bears repeating. Endless Horizons - Not as useful outside of Mono-white, but still decent card advantage. You can also pitch the extra lands if you're ever forced to discard. if you're feeling gutsy, you can even use this to exile the Savannah or Temple Gardens. Runed Halo - Might not be as good if there's a lot of Enchantment destruction as you described, but still migtht buy you a turn in a pinch.
Just taking a look at your list quickly, I here's a couple of thoughts: Argentum Armor I love the flavor of this card, but it's really slow. Either it's a turn 6 drop and turn 7 equip, meaning you're leaving Thrun without mana for regenerate, or you need 12 mana to make this work in one turn. While Thrun is Hexproof, the equipment isn't.
Elder of Laurels - I don't see this being super-effective. While it is repeatable, how many creatures will you really have out? Even if it's this guy, Thrun and one more, :3mana::symg: for +3/+3 doesn't seem super efficient. Also this form of pump is pretty vulerable to wrath and spot removal.
Nantuko Disciple - I just don't think this guy does enough for the slot. Mostly because you have to tap this guy to make it work and it only gives +2/+2.
Forgotten Ancient - It's a cool card that gets big decently fast. I would put this on the block however since it's unlikely to stick around since he will become a big threat pretty fast. Additionally he doesn't contribute to your primary win-con.
Decree of Savagery - I don't think you'll get full value out of this card. You're unlikely to have many creatures on board, so this slot would probably be better suited to something much lower costed. At 9 Mana you should be getting close to your win-con.
I know this isn't going to make it easier to make cuts to your deck but I have a few cards you should consider:
Whispersilk Cloak - Help Thrun get into the red-zone. Shroud doesn't help much but there are very few equipments that grant unblockable.
If you really wanted to stack landfall triggers, you can Riku-copy Crop Rotation, searching for 2 Fetch lands, and then sac them to find 2 more lands. 4 Landfall triggers isn't too shabby for 3 mana. And again, I just wanted to re-iterate, Crop Rotation is also good for mana fixing since it will allow you to bring in Dual/Shock/Fetch lands untapped.
Returning to Rings of Brighthearth, it won't work with Minion Reflector the same way that Riku doesn't. Since the text's reads: "Whenever..." it's a triggered ability, not an activated one. Still for in a creature heavy deck, I think it could be worth it.
Revised duals:
Their worth really depends on your playgroup and on your deck. From what I've learned, (and anyone feel free to correct me here) what the dual lands really do is speed up your deck and increase consistency. You really nailed it with your comment about fetching.
1) The reason I'm a big fan of the Revised Duals/Shock lands is it allows you to be very aggressive on card selection. *Because* you can fetch a dual it allows you to include cards that have a very strict mana cost and use them much sooner on average. Thus this reduces 'dead' cards in your hand. This holds especially true when dealing with Double or Triple costed cards early in the game.
2) By having alternative sources for colored mana, you are able to run more utility lands. Having the dual lands means your deck is more able to accommodate lands that only produce colorless. This becomes more valuable if you have to run some land destruction. (Strip mine, Ghost Quarter etc.). Conversely the additional redundancy reduces your vulnerability to land destruction.
3) The Dual Lands are a tap-land enabler. Since they count as both basic land types, it decreases the odds that your Hinterland Harbor etc. will come in tapped. This again helps out if you've put in more utility lands.
Personally in my Riku and Ghave Decks, I run all 3 types: Dual lands, Shock lands and Fetch lands. I'm still on the fence about filter lands, but we'll see. Whether or not you include the dual lands I suppose depends on the general power level of your playgroup. My usual playgroup runs some very powerful decks that have an easier time with mana since the deck is Mono colored (Omnath) or Dual colored.
Concordant Crossroads
1) Consistency. Especially if Urabrask somehow ends up in the grave yard. Sure you can always tutor for Urabrask but having this card in hand means you don't have to. You can go straight up for Avenger/Primeval Titan or whatever your favorite combo is AND still have haste. If you manage to copy your entwined Tooth and Nail, you can get a different creature instead of Urabrask. Like Kiki-jiki, or Phyrexian Metamorph and make an even bigger bomb of it.
2) At one Green, it's a pretty cheap Haste enabler. The obvious disadvantage it's it's an Enchant World / Global Effect but I'm pretty sure I'd only drop it as part of my finisher.
3) It's harder to get rid of. Especially if your playgroup has spot removal. Instant speed enchantment destruction is a lot more rare than instant speed creature destruction. *Theoretically* speaking, if you were to Tooth and Nail your Combo with Urabrask, someone could kill our red praetor friend before you declare attackers. Especially if you're going after the whole board, your Glen Elendra Archmage may not be enough on her own.
Crop Rotation / Expedition Map - I forgot about these gems. Their advantage is you can tutor for Any land. Early game you can find your duals, late game you can pull up your utility lands.
Mind's Eye
While I agree your thought process is correct, you need to evaluate the card as a whole. There are two ways to decrease the power level of a card. Cost and Effect. For Mind's Eye, the "Penalty" if you will of using a blue-pie ability is built into it's cost. Being able to use it's draw ability is predicated on an opponent drawing a card. Because of this 'drawback' the activation cost of this card is much lower. :1mana:(dump extra whatever colored mana here) This effect is highly repeatable, and as previously mentioned scales very well with the number of players in the game and doubly so if they draw cards outside of their draw step.
Let's look at two other cards for a quick comparison.
Sphinx of Magosi (Not the best example)
Advantages:
- Big Body that gets bigger when you use his ability to draw cards
- Repeatable, controlled card draw - you can draw as many cards as you have mana for whenever you want.
Disadvantages:
- he costs :symu::symu::symu: to cast
-Cost of Drawing Cards - Because there is no restriction here, it costs :2mana::symu: for one card. The mana cost is 3 times that of Mind's Eye and one of those mana paid must be blue.
-He's a creature and vulnerable to mind control, removal and board wipes.
Consecrated Sphinx
Advantages:
- More Card draw at no mana cost
- Respectable Body with evasion
- Repeatable Card draw
Disadvantages:
-Requires :symu::symu:
-Vulnerable to board-wipes, spot removal, and mind control - Since he is so good he's definitely going to draw some attention to himself.
I can't believe I forgot the Consecrated Sphinx as well. Initial cost aside, in terms of card drawing power, this guy is amazing. He has the same costed pre-condition of the Mind's Eye. (whenever an opponent draws a card) As an added bonus, he's not legendary so you can Riku-copy him.
So I would lean towards the Consecrated Sphinx, but I wouldn't completely discount Mind's Eye.
Well darn, now I feel foolish.
Is it still worth while running them? How many cards with Activated Abilities would you want before you'd put them in your deck. I guess you could also copy the Academy Ruins...
I've recently been researching for my Ghave and Riku Decks and thought I'd put in my two cents from what I've learned so far.
Ramp/Fixing
I know you're hesitant to include staples, but I think some are just unavoidable. Especially in a tri-colored deck.
First and foremost, I'm not sure how much of a budget you've allocated to building these decks but I couldn't help but notice you're not running the original dual lands.
These are handy since they have the basic land types and can be found with: Farseek Skyshroud Claim - Lands come into play Untapped Three Visits - If you have access to P3K - Forest come into play Untapped Spoils of Victory - More costs 1 more than Three Visits but you can pick any basic land type. Comes into play untapped. Nature's Lore - Land come into play Untapped
Keep in mind, all of the above will find the Original Dual lands and the Ravnica Shock lands.
Next are just some artifacts that will help you ramp and make sure you have the right colored mana to play what cards you want.
Coalition Relic Just amazing in a Multi-colored deck. It lets you store extra mana, and can give you up to 2 mana of whatever color you want.
Darksteel Ingot - Taps for 1 of Whatever color and is hard to remove.
Gilded Lotus - Although you only get one color out of it, Three of one color really helps out dropping your Avenger of Zendikar or Chancellor of the Spires.
Thran Dynamo - Advantage: Comes out a turn sooner than Gilded Lotus. Disadvantage: Only produces colorless mana.
Mana Reflection - Almost (but not quite) considered a win more card but it will definitely help you get to all your favorite fatties and wincons. Also not that it doubles the mana when you tap any permanent, not just lands. That means Gilded lotus taps for 6 of one color, and Thran Dynamo Taps for 6 colorless. I'm sure there's a few fun options with that much extra mana.
Reflecting Pool - While not as strong as the command tower, it generally opens up to all your colors in a reasonable amount of time.
Creature Cheaters Quicksilver Amulet - Drop anything you want for 4 mana Elvish Piper - This one probably won't stick on the board for long, but if you can even cheat out one fattie, it was probably worth it. And you can use all that extra mana on making Riku copies.
Creatures
Woodfall Primus - One of my personal favorites I couldn't help but notice you're missing. Works well with Gilded Lotus, and gives you extra value with Sneak Attack. For RUG on one turn with Sneak Attack out, you get to destroy 3 non-creature permanents, and end up with a 6/6 and 5/5 tramplers. For an extra UG when it comes back with persist you can destroy another non-creature permanent, and get another 6/6 trampler. Unfortunately the tokens don't work well with persist, but they are still 6/6... Combo with parallel lives for more fun. Doubling season actually hurts this card a bit since it will come in with 2 -1/-1 counters, but I think a 4/4 tramper is still decent.
Myr Battlesphere - Depending how far you want to play on your token sub-theme, this guy makes a lot of little dudes and will definitely draw some hate as just declaring him as an attacker can mean you get damage through. Works extra-well with Doubling Season/Parallel lives.
Dominus of Fealty - This one can be a bit hard to play as the cost is so restrictive, but having one (and a few token copies) can really swing things on the board. The biggest thing to note is that he can borrow any permanent. Like someone else's Blightsteel Colossus, or how about their Mirari's Wake. All yours for a turn!
Spells
Acquire - Depending on your playgroup, you may or may not want to run this. It's essentially an artifact version of Bribery but I think it's pretty helpful. Can draw you up, Swords, Mana Ramp/Fixing(Other people's Sol Rings etc), Wurmcoil Engines, Batterskulls Blatant Thievery - It's a good "Scales with the playgroup" card. It's a bit expensive but a worthwhile spell copy Target. Insurrection - I know you took this card out but I think it's a very solid win-con on it's own.
Enchantments: Concordant Crossroads - Good if you're having trouble getting into the red zone with your creatures. Use carefully though, since it globally gives haste. Works well with the Tokens you get from Sneak Attack. Propaganda - Helps deter attacks made against you. Doesn't help much with Voltron decks but it will absolutely stall against token swarm.
Artifacts: Rings of Brighthearth - More shenanigans. And at 2 colorless mana, it's pretty flexible. [Edited: Riku's ability is a triggered additional cost, not an activated ability] Deathrender - Your creature are probably going to draw a decent amount of hate. This lets you cheat more fun things on the battle field. Also a half decent Wrath Recovery and gives you more chances to use Riku's copy ability. Mirari - Depending if you wanted to make your deck more spell based, this gives you another way other than Riku to get more out of your spells. Rings of Brighthearth can also copy this ability
Swiftfoot Boots / Whispersilk Cloak - More ways to protect Riku from bad things. Since he is recognized as such a big threat, it's important to try to give him more survival options. Swiftfoot boots are Lightning greaves bigger cousin. Equip cost is 1 compared to 0, but it does have the added advantage of Hexproof over Shroud. Skullclamp - Another staple =( I know, but it works so well with Sneak Attack and 'extra' tokens to keep your hand full of goodies. Can also be a good Trinket mage target. Mind's Eye - Generic good card draw. Generally speaking, 1 mana for 1 card is a pretty good deal. Helps keep your hand stocked with threats and answers. Scales well with the number of players.
Recursion: Recollect - Costs 1 more than Regrowth, but it's another option. Academy Ruins - Players blowing up your artifacts? Here's a decent way to get back something important. Works great with the Wurmcoil Engine. Charmbreaker Devils - A little expensive but can go a long way. The only real disadvantage is it returns instants/sorceries at random. Equip with Whispersilk cloak and start casting other spells for some decent bonus damage. Crucible of Worlds - Works great with Fetch Lands, Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Dust Bowl - Depending on how much land destruction you need for your playgroup. Riptide Laboratory - Combo with Izzet Cronarc to get more cards back or Help Protect Riku by bouncing him back to your hand. Artisan of Kozilek - Good body, Annihilator is scary and brings a friend back from the graveyard when cast. Vengeful Rebirth - A bit expensive but has a great effect when bringing back fatties or win-cons.
I'm sure I've missed a few, but I hope that's enough food for thought. I'd welcome any discussion on the cards =D
What's your budget? There's a lot that can be done. It also depends whether you want to make your deck more combat oriented or more survive until you can use a finisher.
Mana Ramping
Enchantment: Black market - Things are going to die anyways, why not get some benefit?
Land: Cabal Coffers - Great in Black Temple of the False God - A one or two of for this card, the extra mana is handy. Crypt of Agadeem - Slows you down a bit since it comes in tapped but if you have a lot of guys dying, this will give you a nice boost.
Artifact: Caged Sun - Buffs your dudes and makes more mana. What's not to love? Gauntlet of Power - Careful with this card, it helps everyone. Doubling Cube - Breaks even at 6 Mana, but ramps up hard after that. Depends on the pace of your playgroup whether it's worthwhile or not. Extraplanar Lens - Amazing for Mono decks. Again careful here as it helps anyone with Swamps. If you want to play a bit more 'aggressive' You can swap your swamps for Snow-covered swamps so that you can be the sole beneficiary.
Creatures: Nirkana Revenant - Another mana doubler and you can pump him too.
Creature Buffing:
Enchantment Bad Moon - Buffs _all_ black creatures. So be careful with this one. But because it's an enchantment it's less vulnerable to removal.
Shinanigans (picking on players): Blood Tribute - Great for evening out the board, and buys you more time though life gain. Beacon of Unrest - Does someone else have something you like in their Grave Yard? Go steal it!
Recusion: Volrath's Stronghold - This is a good way to Bring back guys for another go-around!
Strong Removal Spine of Ish Sah - Black doesn't deal well with troublesome enchantments or Artifacts, this is one of the few cards that can help.
Equipment in Flavour Blade of the Bloodchief - Stuff is dying? awesome! Your creature gets bigger!
Umezawa's Jitte - Very Flexible and the charge counters go on the equipment, not the creature. Super-handy, and you can always use the charge counters in response to someone trying to blow that up on you.
Interesting items: Rings of Brighthearth If you have a lot of creatures with activate-able abilities, this can make it more fun.
I'm sure there are a lot more, but this is just a small sample of what's possible.
Personally, Hellrider is nice for some reach but I don't feel my Riku deck can really take advantage of his ability. The card seems more designed for a token/swarm deck, rather than the extra tokens you get from Riku.
I do agree Nim Deathmantle is powerful, but the cost on it is rather prohibitive. Essentially you'll be locking yourself out of 4 mana every turn just to make sure you can use it. And that reserve mana is probably wasted if you can't convert it to something before your next upkeep. (Deadeye Navigator flickers and the like) So depending on how many instants and creature abilities you have, I would tread carefully with using the deathmantle. If you're looking for a similar kind of recursion, I would highly recommend the Mimic Vat instead. It's much less awkward to deal with, and you can save your dudes under it for zero mana cost. And as an added bonus you can save creatures from other players under it too.
As for the "epic ramp spell", the card was clearly designed for EDH but I'm worried that it won't carry through with its intended effect. Where as Kodama's/Cultivate/Explosive Vegetation /Skyshroud Claim help you ramp, I feel the new spell will probably paint a bull’s-eye on your dome. Getting to 14 or 21-27 mana on Copy (Depending if you have mana rocks out or not) will definitely give you access to playing whatever spell you want, and your opponents will probably recognize this. If you resolve the spell and live to your next turn, it feels like a "win-more" scenario.
TL;DR Depends on how competitive your playgroup is.
I'm looking for some ideas on building a group hug deck centered around Riku instead of Zedruu. The general deck strategy would be to help everyone out and police the board a little bit until you can hit a win-con (Like insurrection). Any help is appreciated. I'm not sure what other win cons exist. This is probably the least competitive deck I've put together so I'm a little out of my element trying to design something more social. Budget isn't an issue so include any cards you think are relevant.
1 Riku of Two Reflections
Group Hug (8)
1 Mana Flare
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Collective Voyage
1 Hunted Wumpus
1 Show and Tell
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Rites of Flourishing
1 Braids, Conjurer Adept
Control/Policing (7)
1 Chaos Warp
1 Beast Within
1 Acidic Slime
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Duplicant
1 All is Dust
1 Blasphemous Act
Personal Shenanigans (12)
1 Rite of Replication
1 Sneak Attack
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Body Double
1 Genesis
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Bribery
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Gilded Drake
1 Eternal Witness
1 Regrowth
1 Sylvan Library
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Cruicible of Worlds
1 Crystal Shard
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Mimic Vat
1 Birthing Pod
1 Trinket Mage
1 Mirari
Ramp/Fixing (10)
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Coalition Relic
1 Farseek
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sol Ring
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Mana Reflection
Win Cons (2)
1 Insurrection
1 Comet Storm
Lands (39)
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Homeward Path
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Command Tower
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
5 Forest
5 Mountain
5 Island
Thanks again for reading and I look forward to everyone's input
Mana base
Pretty much the unsung hero of any deck. Without it you sit with a lot of dead cards in your hand you wish you could play, which I don't think is very fun.
Lands
Plateau/Sacred Foundry/Arid Mesa - Probaly the most expensive Cards you can get for yourself, but these provide the fastest start to your mana. The Arid Mesa can help you look for the other two lands here and bring them in untapped. If you do have both of those lands out already, you can go looking for whatever else you need.
Other options:
Rugged Prairie / Ancient Amphitheater/Battlefield Forge/Boros Garrison/Clifftop Retreat
While these aren't quit as good as your top tier options, they are still pretty reasonable at helping you have the right mana. Mostly there's an extra penalty or condition for their use, whether they come in tapped or deal damage to you for receiving specific colored mana.
The other reason to run more lands that help you fix your mana base, is it gives you more leeway to play other utility lands.
Utility:
Slayers' Stronghold - Straight from Avacyn Restored, this lets you get more out of your threats sooner.
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion - Double strike can enable a lot of shenanigans and a lot of damage!
Creatures
Firemane Angel-While a bit expensive mana-wise, she fits your theme and she's hard to get rid of permanently.
Silverblade Paladin - Gives doublestrike to anyone. Makes Gisela really scary.
Razia, Boros Archangel - A fun angel. A little expensive mana-wise but she might save one of your other creatures.
Mother of Runes - An amazing card. She can protect your creatures from damage or help get your angels past would-be blockers. She probably won't survive too long however since she is a large threat.
Sun Titan/Inferno Titan - Not as related thematically but always very powerful cards to play.
Enchantments and Artifacts
Martyr's Bond - Really makes your opponents leery of attacking you, or blowing up your stuff.
Swiftfoot Boots - The Bigger Cousin to Lightning Greaves. These give Hexproof as opposed to shroud. Run both to protect Gisela.
Sensei's Divining Top - EDH Staple. Helps fix your card draws and can get you that extra card when you really need it.
Mind's Eye - Gives Card draw in colors that don't normally get it.
Instants/Sorceries
Oblation - It's a little bit mean, but this will tuck threats back into their library. Also note under regular rules, Generals will also go into the library, not back into the command zone.
Cloudshift - Another Avacyn Restored Card
Wrath of God/Terminus/Day of Judgement/Austere Command/Blasphemous Act - It's good to play a few Boardwipers. Sometimes there is just too much on the battlefield and these are a good way of dealing with that.
I'm not a big fan of Strata Scythe outside of mono colored decks. I just don't feel the value is there unless you think you will get enough bonuses from lands that opponents control that are the same as the one you've chosen.
I'm sure I'm missing more but maybe this will give you a little bit to think about =)
Creatures
Iona, Shield of Emeria - Not sure how your playgroup feels about lockdown/control. Obviously something for the top end of your curve.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope - Saves your stuff from most wraths other than Black Sun's Zenith. Continues your indestructible theme.
Scavenging Ooze - Pretty good Graveyard hate. Not sure how much if it you need in your playgroup. I see you already have Relic of Progenitus.
Yavimana Elder - Not sure what your thoughts are on this card but it's better card advantage than the Sakura-Tribe Elder, however it doesn't ramp like the latter card.
Karmic Guide - It's a little expensive but she brings someone back from the grave yard, and is pro-black as an added bonus.
Woodfall Primus Another one of my favorites. Bigger acidic slime. He'll probably take out 2 things unless exiled. You can also sac this guy to the Birthing Pod to pull up Iona.
Lands
Temple of the False God - Easy Ramp
Reflecting Pool - Mana Fixing
Gavony Township - A decent place to dump extra mana. Also combo's with Woodfall Primus to provide additional value.
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood - Slows down your mana base a little but works well at making your dudes a little bit tougher. Also combo's with Woodfall Primus.
Flagstone of Trolkir - Discourages Land Destruction
Dust Bowl - Take out important lands. Works well with Flagstone of Trolkir.
Wasteland / Stripmine - Depends on your playgroup's meta. Good for taking care of annoying utility lands.
Artifacts
Coalition Relic - Ramp/Fixing/Mana banking
Crucible of Worlds - Works well to counter discard effects. Let's you re-use your fetch lands and and of the land destruction effects mentioned above.
Mind's Eye - Helps with Card-draw. A fairly reliable source of drawing for only
Instants/Sorceries
Tooth and Nail- Another Creature cheater / tutor to go with your Chord of calling. Less restrictive than the triple green. Can combo Avacyn and Novablast Wurm.
Afterlife / Bramblecrush - Not sure how much additional removal you'll need.
Skyshroud Claim / Farseek / Explosive Vegetation - Depends how much ramping/fixing you feel you need, I think these are pretty exceptional. The first two can tutor up your Savannah and Temple Garden.
Enchantments
Martyr's Bond - This was mentioned before by Gamazon, but I think it bears repeating.
Endless Horizons - Not as useful outside of Mono-white, but still decent card advantage. You can also pitch the extra lands if you're ever forced to discard. if you're feeling gutsy, you can even use this to exile the Savannah or Temple Gardens.
Runed Halo - Might not be as good if there's a lot of Enchantment destruction as you described, but still migtht buy you a turn in a pinch.
Argentum Armor I love the flavor of this card, but it's really slow. Either it's a turn 6 drop and turn 7 equip, meaning you're leaving Thrun without mana for regenerate, or you need 12 mana to make this work in one turn. While Thrun is Hexproof, the equipment isn't.
Elder of Laurels - I don't see this being super-effective. While it is repeatable, how many creatures will you really have out? Even if it's this guy, Thrun and one more, :3mana::symg: for +3/+3 doesn't seem super efficient. Also this form of pump is pretty vulerable to wrath and spot removal.
Nantuko Disciple - I just don't think this guy does enough for the slot. Mostly because you have to tap this guy to make it work and it only gives +2/+2.
Forgotten Ancient - It's a cool card that gets big decently fast. I would put this on the block however since it's unlikely to stick around since he will become a big threat pretty fast. Additionally he doesn't contribute to your primary win-con.
Decree of Savagery - I don't think you'll get full value out of this card. You're unlikely to have many creatures on board, so this slot would probably be better suited to something much lower costed. At 9 Mana you should be getting close to your win-con.
I know this isn't going to make it easier to make cuts to your deck but I have a few cards you should consider:
Whispersilk Cloak - Help Thrun get into the red-zone. Shroud doesn't help much but there are very few equipments that grant unblockable.
Extraplanar Lens - Great ramp for any mono-colored deck.
Trailblazer's Boots - Depends on your playgroup, but most EDH games see a lot of non-basic land play.
Lightning Greaves / Swiftfoot Boots - Haste Enabler, or can protect your other creatures like Bellowing Tanglewurm
Canopy Cover - Another form of evasion, a little lost value due to Thrun already being hex proof
Concordant Crossroads - Global Haste in green, use wisely.
Those are just my quick thoughts. I'll check back in later. Hope this helps.
Returning to Rings of Brighthearth, it won't work with Minion Reflector the same way that Riku doesn't. Since the text's reads: "Whenever..." it's a triggered ability, not an activated one. Still for
More food for thought.
Revised duals:
Their worth really depends on your playgroup and on your deck. From what I've learned, (and anyone feel free to correct me here) what the dual lands really do is speed up your deck and increase consistency. You really nailed it with your comment about fetching.
1) The reason I'm a big fan of the Revised Duals/Shock lands is it allows you to be very aggressive on card selection. *Because* you can fetch a dual it allows you to include cards that have a very strict mana cost and use them much sooner on average. Thus this reduces 'dead' cards in your hand. This holds especially true when dealing with Double or Triple costed cards early in the game.
2) By having alternative sources for colored mana, you are able to run more utility lands. Having the dual lands means your deck is more able to accommodate lands that only produce colorless. This becomes more valuable if you have to run some land destruction. (Strip mine, Ghost Quarter etc.). Conversely the additional redundancy reduces your vulnerability to land destruction.
3) The Dual Lands are a tap-land enabler. Since they count as both basic land types, it decreases the odds that your Hinterland Harbor etc. will come in tapped. This again helps out if you've put in more utility lands.
Personally in my Riku and Ghave Decks, I run all 3 types: Dual lands, Shock lands and Fetch lands. I'm still on the fence about filter lands, but we'll see. Whether or not you include the dual lands I suppose depends on the general power level of your playgroup. My usual playgroup runs some very powerful decks that have an easier time with mana since the deck is Mono colored (Omnath) or Dual colored.
Concordant Crossroads
1) Consistency. Especially if Urabrask somehow ends up in the grave yard. Sure you can always tutor for Urabrask but having this card in hand means you don't have to. You can go straight up for Avenger/Primeval Titan or whatever your favorite combo is AND still have haste. If you manage to copy your entwined Tooth and Nail, you can get a different creature instead of Urabrask. Like Kiki-jiki, or Phyrexian Metamorph and make an even bigger bomb of it.
2) At one Green, it's a pretty cheap Haste enabler. The obvious disadvantage it's it's an Enchant World / Global Effect but I'm pretty sure I'd only drop it as part of my finisher.
3) It's harder to get rid of. Especially if your playgroup has spot removal. Instant speed enchantment destruction is a lot more rare than instant speed creature destruction. *Theoretically* speaking, if you were to Tooth and Nail your Combo with Urabrask, someone could kill our red praetor friend before you declare attackers. Especially if you're going after the whole board, your Glen Elendra Archmage may not be enough on her own.
Crop Rotation / Expedition Map - I forgot about these gems. Their advantage is you can tutor for Any land. Early game you can find your duals, late game you can pull up your utility lands.
Mind's Eye
While I agree your thought process is correct, you need to evaluate the card as a whole. There are two ways to decrease the power level of a card. Cost and Effect. For Mind's Eye, the "Penalty" if you will of using a blue-pie ability is built into it's cost. Being able to use it's draw ability is predicated on an opponent drawing a card. Because of this 'drawback' the activation cost of this card is much lower. :1mana:(dump extra whatever colored mana here) This effect is highly repeatable, and as previously mentioned scales very well with the number of players in the game and doubly so if they draw cards outside of their draw step.
Let's look at two other cards for a quick comparison.
Sphinx of Magosi (Not the best example)
Advantages:
- Big Body that gets bigger when you use his ability to draw cards
- Repeatable, controlled card draw - you can draw as many cards as you have mana for whenever you want.
Disadvantages:
- he costs :symu::symu::symu: to cast
-Cost of Drawing Cards - Because there is no restriction here, it costs :2mana::symu: for one card. The mana cost is 3 times that of Mind's Eye and one of those mana paid must be blue.
-He's a creature and vulnerable to mind control, removal and board wipes.
Consecrated Sphinx
Advantages:
- More Card draw at no mana cost
- Respectable Body with evasion
- Repeatable Card draw
Disadvantages:
-Requires :symu::symu:
-Vulnerable to board-wipes, spot removal, and mind control - Since he is so good he's definitely going to draw some attention to himself.
I can't believe I forgot the Consecrated Sphinx as well. Initial cost aside, in terms of card drawing power, this guy is amazing. He has the same costed pre-condition of the Mind's Eye. (whenever an opponent draws a card) As an added bonus, he's not legendary so you can Riku-copy him.
So I would lean towards the Consecrated Sphinx, but I wouldn't completely discount Mind's Eye.
Is it still worth while running them? How many cards with Activated Abilities would you want before you'd put them in your deck. I guess you could also copy the Academy Ruins...
Ramp/Fixing
I know you're hesitant to include staples, but I think some are just unavoidable. Especially in a tri-colored deck.
First and foremost, I'm not sure how much of a budget you've allocated to building these decks but I couldn't help but notice you're not running the original dual lands.
Taiga
Volcanic Island
Tropical Island
These are handy since they have the basic land types and can be found with:
Farseek
Skyshroud Claim - Lands come into play Untapped
Three Visits - If you have access to P3K - Forest come into play Untapped
Spoils of Victory - More costs 1 more than Three Visits but you can pick any basic land type. Comes into play untapped.
Nature's Lore - Land come into play Untapped
Keep in mind, all of the above will find the Original Dual lands and the Ravnica Shock lands.
Next are just some artifacts that will help you ramp and make sure you have the right colored mana to play what cards you want.
Coalition Relic Just amazing in a Multi-colored deck. It lets you store extra mana, and can give you up to 2 mana of whatever color you want.
Darksteel Ingot - Taps for 1 of Whatever color and is hard to remove.
Gilded Lotus - Although you only get one color out of it, Three of one color really helps out dropping your Avenger of Zendikar or Chancellor of the Spires.
Thran Dynamo - Advantage: Comes out a turn sooner than Gilded Lotus. Disadvantage: Only produces colorless mana.
Mana Reflection - Almost (but not quite) considered a win more card but it will definitely help you get to all your favorite fatties and wincons. Also not that it doubles the mana when you tap any permanent, not just lands. That means Gilded lotus taps for 6 of one color, and Thran Dynamo Taps for 6 colorless. I'm sure there's a few fun options with that much extra mana.
Reflecting Pool - While not as strong as the command tower, it generally opens up to all your colors in a reasonable amount of time.
Sakura-tribe Elder / Yavimaya Elder - Helps get land out.
Birds of Paradise - Generic Ramp but gives any color on a one drop.
Creature Cheaters
Quicksilver Amulet - Drop anything you want for 4 mana
Elvish Piper - This one probably won't stick on the board for long, but if you can even cheat out one fattie, it was probably worth it. And you can use all that extra mana on making Riku copies.
Creatures
Woodfall Primus - One of my personal favorites I couldn't help but notice you're missing. Works well with Gilded Lotus, and gives you extra value with Sneak Attack. For RUG on one turn with Sneak Attack out, you get to destroy 3 non-creature permanents, and end up with a 6/6 and 5/5 tramplers. For an extra UG when it comes back with persist you can destroy another non-creature permanent, and get another 6/6 trampler. Unfortunately the tokens don't work well with persist, but they are still 6/6... Combo with parallel lives for more fun. Doubling season actually hurts this card a bit since it will come in with 2 -1/-1 counters, but I think a 4/4 tramper is still decent.
Myr Battlesphere - Depending how far you want to play on your token sub-theme, this guy makes a lot of little dudes and will definitely draw some hate as just declaring him as an attacker can mean you get damage through. Works extra-well with Doubling Season/Parallel lives.
Dominus of Fealty - This one can be a bit hard to play as the cost is so restrictive, but having one (and a few token copies) can really swing things on the board. The biggest thing to note is that he can borrow any permanent. Like someone else's Blightsteel Colossus, or how about their Mirari's Wake. All yours for a turn!
Spells
Acquire - Depending on your playgroup, you may or may not want to run this. It's essentially an artifact version of Bribery but I think it's pretty helpful. Can draw you up, Swords, Mana Ramp/Fixing(Other people's Sol Rings etc), Wurmcoil Engines, Batterskulls
Blatant Thievery - It's a good "Scales with the playgroup" card. It's a bit expensive but a worthwhile spell copy Target.
Insurrection - I know you took this card out but I think it's a very solid win-con on it's own.
Enchantments:
Concordant Crossroads - Good if you're having trouble getting into the red zone with your creatures. Use carefully though, since it globally gives haste. Works well with the Tokens you get from Sneak Attack.
Propaganda - Helps deter attacks made against you. Doesn't help much with Voltron decks but it will absolutely stall against token swarm.
Artifacts:
Rings of Brighthearth - More shenanigans. And at 2 colorless mana, it's pretty flexible. [Edited: Riku's ability is a triggered additional cost, not an activated ability]
Deathrender - Your creature are probably going to draw a decent amount of hate. This lets you cheat more fun things on the battle field. Also a half decent Wrath Recovery and gives you more chances to use Riku's copy ability.
Mirari - Depending if you wanted to make your deck more spell based, this gives you another way other than Riku to get more out of your spells. Rings of Brighthearth can also copy this ability
Swiftfoot Boots / Whispersilk Cloak - More ways to protect Riku from bad things. Since he is recognized as such a big threat, it's important to try to give him more survival options. Swiftfoot boots are Lightning greaves bigger cousin. Equip cost is 1 compared to 0, but it does have the added advantage of Hexproof over Shroud.
Skullclamp - Another staple =( I know, but it works so well with Sneak Attack and 'extra' tokens to keep your hand full of goodies. Can also be a good Trinket mage target.
Mind's Eye - Generic good card draw. Generally speaking, 1 mana for 1 card is a pretty good deal. Helps keep your hand stocked with threats and answers. Scales well with the number of players.
Recursion:
Recollect - Costs 1 more than Regrowth, but it's another option.
Academy Ruins - Players blowing up your artifacts? Here's a decent way to get back something important. Works great with the Wurmcoil Engine.
Charmbreaker Devils - A little expensive but can go a long way. The only real disadvantage is it returns instants/sorceries at random. Equip with Whispersilk cloak and start casting other spells for some decent bonus damage.
Crucible of Worlds - Works great with Fetch Lands, Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Dust Bowl - Depending on how much land destruction you need for your playgroup.
Riptide Laboratory - Combo with Izzet Cronarc to get more cards back or Help Protect Riku by bouncing him back to your hand.
Artisan of Kozilek - Good body, Annihilator is scary and brings a friend back from the graveyard when cast.
Vengeful Rebirth - A bit expensive but has a great effect when bringing back fatties or win-cons.
I'm sure I've missed a few, but I hope that's enough food for thought. I'd welcome any discussion on the cards =D
Mana Ramping
Enchantment:
Black market - Things are going to die anyways, why not get some benefit?
Land:
Cabal Coffers - Great in Black
Temple of the False God - A one or two of for this card, the extra mana is handy.
Crypt of Agadeem - Slows you down a bit since it comes in tapped but if you have a lot of guys dying, this will give you a nice boost.
Artifact:
Caged Sun - Buffs your dudes and makes more mana. What's not to love?
Gauntlet of Power - Careful with this card, it helps everyone.
Doubling Cube - Breaks even at 6 Mana, but ramps up hard after that. Depends on the pace of your playgroup whether it's worthwhile or not.
Extraplanar Lens - Amazing for Mono decks. Again careful here as it helps anyone with Swamps. If you want to play a bit more 'aggressive' You can swap your swamps for Snow-covered swamps so that you can be the sole beneficiary.
Creatures:
Nirkana Revenant - Another mana doubler and you can pump him too.
Creature Buffing:
Enchantment
Bad Moon - Buffs _all_ black creatures. So be careful with this one. But because it's an enchantment it's less vulnerable to removal.
Lords:
Ascendant Evincar - Like a mini-Elesh Norn, but buffs all black creatures, again be careful here
Adaptive Automaton
Bloodline Keeper --> Lord of Lineage - Makes vampires and then buffs vampires.
Noteable Creatures and Spells
Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet *If* he survives, he removes problem creatures for 3. And you get a creature for it.
Malakir Bloodwitch - Scales well with group size.
Mephidross Vampire - Buffs your dudes if they survive combat.
Skeletal Vampire - Decent Vampire with ETB
Vampire Hexmage First Strike and Counters Planeswalkers
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief Flying, Her activate-able ability can remove indestructible dudes and it buffs her to boot.
Urge to Feed
Plague Wind - Expensive to Cast but a very strong one-sided effect
Shinanigans (picking on players):
Blood Tribute - Great for evening out the board, and buys you more time though life gain.
Beacon of Unrest - Does someone else have something you like in their Grave Yard? Go steal it!
Recusion:
Volrath's Stronghold - This is a good way to Bring back guys for another go-around!
Strong Removal
Spine of Ish Sah - Black doesn't deal well with troublesome enchantments or Artifacts, this is one of the few cards that can help.
Equipment in Flavour
Blade of the Bloodchief - Stuff is dying? awesome! Your creature gets bigger!
Good Equipment in General
Swords - Well um. Swords, what else is there to say?
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of War and Peace
Sword of Light and Shadow
Umezawa's Jitte - Very Flexible and the charge counters go on the equipment, not the creature. Super-handy, and you can always use the charge counters in response to someone trying to blow that up on you.
Interesting items:
Rings of Brighthearth If you have a lot of creatures with activate-able abilities, this can make it more fun.
I'm sure there are a lot more, but this is just a small sample of what's possible.