Yeah, without derailing too much, Jund is rough and usually ends with me being dead or sticking a night of souls betrayal/curse/ensnaring bridge. I just think that the countermagic and random hate artifacts were the strongest parts of the list. Basically, you deal with round 2 of your opponents onslaught.
Is there a reason, besides room, for the lack of pristine talismans? The deck seems to want to go from 3 to 5 rather than 2 to 4, and talisman enhances the long game. (I know post costs 4, but I'd want to play it with a mana up) Talisman also gives you better mana on turn 4, where you can go t4 talisman, then a 2 mana spell. I was using the mana for interaction or spellskite, but playing a ichor wellspring there is good too.
The main problem I see with the list is that you 8 pieces of ramp that accelerate you into... the start of gaining value. It just seems like a waste to devote so much to getting a turn ahead in the long game you want to win. T2 Signet into Solemn into Wurmcoil seems sweet, but it's a waste of cards against some decks, and tapping out turns 2, 3 and 4 is a great way to get killed.
If they get uncounterable thragtusk through your discard, it's not so bad, since you have a little removal. Your core is just so strong, since their whole deck is air except for Tamiyo tapping a drownyard.
Specific cards to beat them include Duress/Appetite for Brains, and being fast or not caring about their durdle.
Just race with unsummons and Invisible stalker? Spectral Flight?
Consider Fettergeist, the card is nuts.
Also, not to derail, but U/B control is very cheap excluding snapcasters, and has good matchups against any control deck, even if it has horrible matchups versus midrange. It has an average matchup against aggressive decks.
Take out delver, it won't flip... I would play old style sea stompy-ish creatures like the aforementioned fettergeist, Dungeon Geists, the phantom monsters who just beat aggro by being too big and race well enough (when backed by tempo cards) against midrange/control.
Basically, I have pristine talismans and etched oracle where you have Trading post/Thopter foundry. I think it's correct to play counterspells and spot removal instead of ramp, even if it makes for a less explosive goldfish, but the game you get is much better.
I suggest an Eye of Ugin... With the amount of recursion, gifts might actually be good. Especially in bant, where you have the regrowth effects in both life from the loam and witness.
Spellskites give you good game against most decks in the format, especially infect and burn, and are still ok in some combo matchups. They just die in jund, but hey.
You can't think of this card as blue, think of it as simic. white and green don't clone but populate makes sense thematically as a mechanic for selesnya. simic is all about evolution and furthering biological things part limits. graft was a bit of a stretch for blue too but they made it work.
That's exactly what I meant, the mechanic feels simic, due to flavor (bit miffed no-one got the tezzeret reference), I think MOON-E was saying that as a mono-blue card mechanically it feels off.
That's only a flavor standpoint, but what about mechanically? Blue doesn't get big creatures and doesn't make its creatures bigger. Those two things just aren't part of blue's color pie. Why does it get a mechanic that combines the two?
I mean yes, simic likes +1/+1 counters, but this just doesn't feel right on a monoblue card.
I guess, if it were blue it would be like " draw a card " or something broken like that. Didn't blue have a lot of beaters initially? Cloud elemental and stuff? 4/4 flyers? I'm not going to find random examples, but I think blue gets some beef. This guy isn't a big creature and isn't very likely to get huge either, right?
This mehanic feels very green but not remotely blue to me. Maybe white or red as a secondary colour. Anyway, it's a pretty cool card.
I disagree, I think it's actually more blue than green. Green is like " I'M HUGE, AS IS INTENDED ", then blue is like " If I can just accelerate nature's intentions, I can improve this ".
Because " What seperates us from mere beasts is the capacity for self improvement. "
I dislike land destruction being printed these days because people waste my time playing it against me... And yes, if I mull to 4 and keep a one lander, you'll " get me ". But If my hand is fine, I'm fine.
In terms of Stone Rain effects, they're in modern and are sometimes good against key decks. Again, grieffers want to build a LD deck with dorks and stone rains and bloodbraids, because it makes them happy, and they like loosing to combo...
I'm okay with it the way it is, because it ensures that a lot of people won't be trying it out all the time, but if it went away, I think that'd be even better. The kind of people who like building land destruction decks I don't consider normal magic players. I consider them annoying.
Well, when you find someone, they're pretty likely to be cool, right? I have no idea, I've found a few around. You just have to keep looking, I guess. I am, however, bisexual, so I find there are more potential partners in the opposite sex, so I don't have as much pressure to find a partner of the same sex.
Why are you not playing Sphinx's revelation? It practically says " Stabilize, yo ".
Seriously, if you're playing a stall deck as I like to think I'll be, you durdle and remove their stuff for the first 5/6 turns, then slam it for 6 or 7. Gaining that kind of life stops you from dying to random things, and the new hand full of answers and a win con... I compare the card to cruel ultimatum, to be honest. If it resolves as a 7 mana spell, it's great. 9 mana, insane.
They work like manlands, for those of you who played back in Zen standard/modern etc; They're mana early and give you extra creatures later on. Or blockers, too. That's their strength, they are good early as ramp, and when you no longer need them for the mana, you get a creature.
Not as good as manlands, mind you, since those took up your land slots not your spell slots, but most decks like some ramp, so they're still pretty good.
Love your work guys, I have some requests which I'm surprised to not have seen (if they are in here somewhere, lemme know, I didn't see them). Just go nuts with the artwork, prefer serious fantasy.
Oblation
Chaos Warp
Riptide Laboratory
Azorius Guildmage
Intuition
Vindicate
Magosi, the Waterveil
Realms Uncharted
Knight of the Reliquary (I actually don't mind the regular art, I'd just love to see another version, even like a timeshifted border or something.)
Anyone up for the above?
EDIT: Awkward for the above. I don't own a computer, is my excuse. No photoshop, basically.
Is there a reason, besides room, for the lack of pristine talismans? The deck seems to want to go from 3 to 5 rather than 2 to 4, and talisman enhances the long game. (I know post costs 4, but I'd want to play it with a mana up) Talisman also gives you better mana on turn 4, where you can go t4 talisman, then a 2 mana spell. I was using the mana for interaction or spellskite, but playing a ichor wellspring there is good too.
The main problem I see with the list is that you 8 pieces of ramp that accelerate you into... the start of gaining value. It just seems like a waste to devote so much to getting a turn ahead in the long game you want to win. T2 Signet into Solemn into Wurmcoil seems sweet, but it's a waste of cards against some decks, and tapping out turns 2, 3 and 4 is a great way to get killed.
The art is super sweet, but like... I'm going to open this and be like " great, this is why I never buy boosters. ". Not excited.
Haha, sounds about right.
4 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
5 [ISD] Island (3)
8 [RTR] Swamp (2)
4 [DKA] Evolving Wilds
2 [ISD] Shimmering Grotto
1 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
3 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
// Creatures
3 [M13] Augur of Bolas
2 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
// Spells
3 [AVR] Appetite for Brains
2 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline
1 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
3 [ISD] Think Twice
2 [DKA] Thought Scour
4 [ISD] Forbidden Alchemy
3 [ISD] Curse of Death's Hold
3 [ISD] Dissipate
2 [RTR] Syncopate
2 [ISD] Victim of Night
2 [ISD] Tribute to Hunger
1 [RTR] Psychic Spiral
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
SB: 1 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline
SB: 1 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [RTR] Cremate
SB: 2 [ISD] Witchbane Orb
SB: 2 [AVR] Fettergeist
SB: 1 [M12] Cancel
SB: 1 [MPR] Negate
SB: 2 [WWK] Dispel
SB: 2 [M13] Duress
SB: 1 [M13] Staff of Nin
If they get uncounterable thragtusk through your discard, it's not so bad, since you have a little removal. Your core is just so strong, since their whole deck is air except for Tamiyo tapping a drownyard.
Specific cards to beat them include Duress/Appetite for Brains, and being fast or not caring about their durdle.
Consider Fettergeist, the card is nuts.
Also, not to derail, but U/B control is very cheap excluding snapcasters, and has good matchups against any control deck, even if it has horrible matchups versus midrange. It has an average matchup against aggressive decks.
Take out delver, it won't flip... I would play old style sea stompy-ish creatures like the aforementioned fettergeist, Dungeon Geists, the phantom monsters who just beat aggro by being too big and race well enough (when backed by tempo cards) against midrange/control.
2 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
2 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [NPH] Phyrexia's Core
1 [DDF] Darksteel Citadel
3 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
2 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
1 [RTR] Blood Crypt
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [RTR] Steam Vents
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
// Creatures
4 [NPH] Spellskite
1 [HOP] Etched Oracle
1 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
1 [M10] Pithing Needle
1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
1 [ISD] Witchbane Orb
1 [RAV] Darkblast
2 [DDF] Tezzeret the Seeker
1 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 [NPH] Pristine Talisman
2 [PLC] Damnation
4 [M11] Mana Leak
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
1 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
1 [NPH] Torpor Orb
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [ISD] Curse of Death's Hold
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [WWK] Dispel
SB: 2 [TSP] Sudden Death
SB: 1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 [ALA] Mindlock Orb
SB: 1 [ISD] Witchbane Orb
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
Basically, I have pristine talismans and etched oracle where you have Trading post/Thopter foundry. I think it's correct to play counterspells and spot removal instead of ramp, even if it makes for a less explosive goldfish, but the game you get is much better.
I suggest an Eye of Ugin... With the amount of recursion, gifts might actually be good. Especially in bant, where you have the regrowth effects in both life from the loam and witness.
Spellskites give you good game against most decks in the format, especially infect and burn, and are still ok in some combo matchups. They just die in jund, but hey.
That's exactly what I meant, the mechanic feels simic, due to flavor (bit miffed no-one got the tezzeret reference), I think MOON-E was saying that as a mono-blue card mechanically it feels off.
I guess, if it were blue it would be like " draw a card " or something broken like that. Didn't blue have a lot of beaters initially? Cloud elemental and stuff? 4/4 flyers? I'm not going to find random examples, but I think blue gets some beef. This guy isn't a big creature and isn't very likely to get huge either, right?
Feels like a blue/green card, I agree.
I disagree, I think it's actually more blue than green. Green is like " I'M HUGE, AS IS INTENDED ", then blue is like " If I can just accelerate nature's intentions, I can improve this ".
Because " What seperates us from mere beasts is the capacity for self improvement. "
In terms of Stone Rain effects, they're in modern and are sometimes good against key decks. Again, grieffers want to build a LD deck with dorks and stone rains and bloodbraids, because it makes them happy, and they like loosing to combo...
I'm okay with it the way it is, because it ensures that a lot of people won't be trying it out all the time, but if it went away, I think that'd be even better. The kind of people who like building land destruction decks I don't consider normal magic players. I consider them annoying.
/rant
Seriously, if you're playing a stall deck as I like to think I'll be, you durdle and remove their stuff for the first 5/6 turns, then slam it for 6 or 7. Gaining that kind of life stops you from dying to random things, and the new hand full of answers and a win con... I compare the card to cruel ultimatum, to be honest. If it resolves as a 7 mana spell, it's great. 9 mana, insane.
Not as good as manlands, mind you, since those took up your land slots not your spell slots, but most decks like some ramp, so they're still pretty good.
Oblation
Chaos Warp
Riptide Laboratory
Azorius Guildmage
Intuition
Vindicate
Magosi, the Waterveil
Realms Uncharted
Knight of the Reliquary (I actually don't mind the regular art, I'd just love to see another version, even like a timeshifted border or something.)
Anyone up for the above?
EDIT: Awkward for the above. I don't own a computer, is my excuse. No photoshop, basically.