Usually rare cards had some hard time being over $20. Dunno about this one being over $20. $15 seems about right. Crucible didn't hold its price at all even as mythic (although not comparable to this sb super star).
Actually I hope its price get crushed, so I can get as many copies for all my decks.
MTG Reddit is garbage considering its size. Maybe if someone opens a mtgrumors there with similar style to this forum, maybe it could work. Looking for rumors at the main mtg part is pretty bad experience.
I dunno why bring this for this example. It's clearly doesn't fit the criteria if you follow it to the letter. It's not really a functional reprint using the card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, AND toughness. It's clearly don't have the same ability with Vanishing vs Echo which makes it different gameplay-wise.
The iconic +1/+1 and making squirrels could be contested on the functionally identical form argument, but I think people put too much weight on the ability type and think these criteria are "OR" cases instead of "AND". It's clearly on the text every single stipulation has to be met to be considered functionally identical.
The interpretation would be they need to violate all these cases at the same time to have this card creation rule. They can't make Thunderous Spirit as 1WW Elemental Spirit 2/2 Flying, First Strike with just a name change. Maybe they can just get away with making it just spirit, but to be on the safe side they probably make it blue/white and change the creature type at the same time (I believe Maro mentioned this case when designing with these stipulations in mind) if they want a creature with weenie flying first strike.
Which is the same case as the new red Juzam Djinn with even the similar art. The only difference is color and creature type. Of course it's basically the same card. You can even try cast it earlier with rituals and Simian Spirit Guides to have a similar explosive gameplay of the past with Juzam. However, it does not break all criteria. It's maybe too close to comfort, but it's not the first time like that juzam sliver.
People can split hairs and may argue any card with functionally identical gameplay breaks this ruling; however, if you take this rules as they need to meet all these factors, none of those cases breaks any of it and it's clear as day. People arguing against these seem to dig hard to find loopholes against these cases in their arguments. It's reaching.
Spells can be trickier like Reverberate and Fork may be a little bit to close to comfort in case of the rules. In this case it may be worthy discussing.
People seem very close minded on the ability part of these restrictions when it's not in a different weight as color, cmc, and other criteria.
My box was super weird. 3x of the same rare and 2x of 3 other rares and they opened in same sequence from different rolls. Just one mythic and no foils. Also, the distribution was wacky in the common and uncommon slot. It's ok to miss some of the uncommons and this happens, but it's strange to miss 2~3 commons of each color.
So for those of you who are actually getting their boxes:
What time did you first attempt to purchase it, and what time did your payment finish processing? I'm trying to get a general idea of when the 12,000 limit was reached.
I first tried to order at around 12:00:45 Pacific time, but my payment was pending and eventually got canceled. I then managed to "successfully" buy two at 12:23.
I wonder if my initial order was within the first 12,000 attempted, after discounting all the bots.
I opened their listing as soon as it was listed. I "camped" Hasbroshop 1 hr earlier estimated time. I was following twitter and other social media to not miss the boat. I was expecting it to be sold in the first minute or in my worse scenario in seconds. After I finished all the proceedings, I checked the listing again and it was half way done already. The only strange occurrence for me was the site had a timeout message after I pressed the pay button. However, upon refreshing it went through normally. I got email confirmation and it was listed on my purchase listing like normal followed by bot feedback. Apparently everything went normal except for the timeout. I paid with my saved bank account from eBay. Luckily I didn't undergo Paypal or some cheap CC.
I started checking the reddit/twitter/salvation to see how the selling is going and upon second checking of the listing, it was over 12K and I found it strange. After seeing all the topics about cancelled sells from early bird buyers and the weird counter behavior, I kept checking if this happened to me. No message of cancellation received or any further abnormality.
I checked my bank account and it was charged already. Everything seems normal. On social media, pandemonium was escalating. Also, I saw the second listing and kept following till the last listing with 4K or so (dunno if it was the third listing or whatever, it was so hectic) was listed and at the same time I was keeping an eye on my side if my order was still fine, if not I would attempt to buy again. Luckily it wasn't necessary to jump on these new listings.
Still it was very stressing to keep tab on what was going on online. Finally like everyone else, got the latest congratulatory email confirming the purchase. I guess I got lucky on the get and go and for not using the more "normal" ways to pay like Paypal and CC.
Well, I feel relief after getting confirmation that my order went through.
It seems that both eBay and Hasbro wanna make some amendment to the whole mess. Dunno if it's adequate. Hope it's not something lame.
Is it really hard/legally costly for Western corporations to add "sorry" or ask for apology in their message? Every single one of them use this lame language that tries to spin it as a positive or whatever instead of being straight about it. I wish it was Japanese style of corporate apology. The CEO of Hasbro should video message an apology on twitter or something.
I wouldn't blame MTG players even for this insane behavior. WotC hyped this to insane levels by revealing the low print run numbers when they normally wouldn't do (they go out of their way to hide it sometimes) and making strong unnecessary statements like no print run ever just to assure some of the "investor" collectors off their insecurities.
They should have predicted that traffic would be insane after those statements and make sure they at least don't mess up those who got order processed wrongfully during this mess. Now we have a bunch of people with their money tied down for who knows how long while they sort this avoidable mess. A mess bigger than past similar blunders where they should have learnt from.
I see the same kinds of comments with almost every limited edition product sold. People are always mad because they didn't get one. I understand it's frustrating, but if the demand outweighs the supply there is going to be an issue. Same thing would happen if it was a physical sale. I think it's just going to be something we will have to comes to terms with. It's happened how many times now and we keep hearing the same outrage? Between these and the Planeswalker exclusives it should be well known. I think at some point you have to accept that it could never get better.
Maybe they just hold a lotto and pull names from a hat. I know from experience that pisses people off as well.
I think it's normal to be frustrated while trying to get a limited product and usually it dies out naturally if it was handled properly. However, if it's not handled properly and similar and new mistakes are created during the process, the frustration becomes outrage. Especially coming from a big corporation like Hasbro.
There were limited products in the past where only a small amount of people can have access to. However, they were mostly handled by distributors and stores (like Commander's Arsenal). I think people's frustration lasted less during these times although complaints existed. Complaints and frustration are always there for sure and with Internet venting it up is a normal reaction. However, having such a bad experience during the process isn't excusable and deserve criticism and outrage.
They shouldn't have marketed it as super limited to begin with. I know they wanted to make sure collectors this item would have low supply because of the past blunder and also create a cheap buzz/hype. However, they misinterpreted this. The problem wasn't the print run. It was the subpar selection. They overcompensated on both ends creating this scare in the process by disclosing the number. Something they normally don't do with consistency. Obviously it would make any potential buyer panic. Also the poorly edited listing probably led to cancellations from people who did really plan ahead for this.
I'm OK in missing out if it was fair and handled professionally. However, poor handling of the situation isn't excusable in any way and this was the case. Complaints and frustration are unavoidable. This whole amateur handling of situation was avoidable from the marketing to the final process.
I think the problem started with way back with Rav Allegiance when they tried to hide the amount sold and backfired while not selling as fast as last time. They scaled back and made it 100x more desirable. Also, they did something we usually don't get from them which is the amount they gonna make and the statement they will not print more. This created this hype and overreaction which was warranted. People expected it to sell in minutes. Even eBay couldn't handle this.
Although this was a eBay problem, so they should take the culpability, the fundamental flaw of this whole *****show is WotC doesn't know how to handle supply and demand properly. It was very clear that this product would be extremely popular and demanding. It was clear it would generate so much traffic. If they didn't disclosed the print run and said it wouldn't be printed anymore after this batch, maybe it wouldn't generate this anxiety to not missing out. I'm OK in disclosing the amount, but I'm not OK in saying that was just it to make people hyped. EBay dropped the ball, but I think the ball was flawed to begin with. WotC created this avoidable situation and this is the result.
I don't even believe any online outlet would be handle this situation any better. It was the perfect storm for this bad happening and the final fault is with WotC.
Crossing fingers I win the mythic lottery when they start the shipping. Today was a *****show and tomorrow will be another glorious one. War and WotC never changes...
Damn, I almost had a heart attack when the checkout froze. It went through and the auction was still half way in stock. It almost crashed eBay. Damn WotC. They should have printed x2 more. At least it could have lasted 5 to 10 more minutes. This isn't a concert ticket.
Actually I hope its price get crushed, so I can get as many copies for all my decks.
The iconic +1/+1 and making squirrels could be contested on the functionally identical form argument, but I think people put too much weight on the ability type and think these criteria are "OR" cases instead of "AND". It's clearly on the text every single stipulation has to be met to be considered functionally identical.
The interpretation would be they need to violate all these cases at the same time to have this card creation rule. They can't make Thunderous Spirit as 1WW Elemental Spirit 2/2 Flying, First Strike with just a name change. Maybe they can just get away with making it just spirit, but to be on the safe side they probably make it blue/white and change the creature type at the same time (I believe Maro mentioned this case when designing with these stipulations in mind) if they want a creature with weenie flying first strike.
Which is the same case as the new red Juzam Djinn with even the similar art. The only difference is color and creature type. Of course it's basically the same card. You can even try cast it earlier with rituals and Simian Spirit Guides to have a similar explosive gameplay of the past with Juzam. However, it does not break all criteria. It's maybe too close to comfort, but it's not the first time like that juzam sliver.
People can split hairs and may argue any card with functionally identical gameplay breaks this ruling; however, if you take this rules as they need to meet all these factors, none of those cases breaks any of it and it's clear as day. People arguing against these seem to dig hard to find loopholes against these cases in their arguments. It's reaching.
Spells can be trickier like Reverberate and Fork may be a little bit to close to comfort in case of the rules. In this case it may be worthy discussing.
People seem very close minded on the ability part of these restrictions when it's not in a different weight as color, cmc, and other criteria.
I opened their listing as soon as it was listed. I "camped" Hasbroshop 1 hr earlier estimated time. I was following twitter and other social media to not miss the boat. I was expecting it to be sold in the first minute or in my worse scenario in seconds. After I finished all the proceedings, I checked the listing again and it was half way done already. The only strange occurrence for me was the site had a timeout message after I pressed the pay button. However, upon refreshing it went through normally. I got email confirmation and it was listed on my purchase listing like normal followed by bot feedback. Apparently everything went normal except for the timeout. I paid with my saved bank account from eBay. Luckily I didn't undergo Paypal or some cheap CC.
I started checking the reddit/twitter/salvation to see how the selling is going and upon second checking of the listing, it was over 12K and I found it strange. After seeing all the topics about cancelled sells from early bird buyers and the weird counter behavior, I kept checking if this happened to me. No message of cancellation received or any further abnormality.
I checked my bank account and it was charged already. Everything seems normal. On social media, pandemonium was escalating. Also, I saw the second listing and kept following till the last listing with 4K or so (dunno if it was the third listing or whatever, it was so hectic) was listed and at the same time I was keeping an eye on my side if my order was still fine, if not I would attempt to buy again. Luckily it wasn't necessary to jump on these new listings.
Still it was very stressing to keep tab on what was going on online. Finally like everyone else, got the latest congratulatory email confirming the purchase. I guess I got lucky on the get and go and for not using the more "normal" ways to pay like Paypal and CC.
It seems that both eBay and Hasbro wanna make some amendment to the whole mess. Dunno if it's adequate. Hope it's not something lame.
Is it really hard/legally costly for Western corporations to add "sorry" or ask for apology in their message? Every single one of them use this lame language that tries to spin it as a positive or whatever instead of being straight about it. I wish it was Japanese style of corporate apology. The CEO of Hasbro should video message an apology on twitter or something.
They should have predicted that traffic would be insane after those statements and make sure they at least don't mess up those who got order processed wrongfully during this mess. Now we have a bunch of people with their money tied down for who knows how long while they sort this avoidable mess. A mess bigger than past similar blunders where they should have learnt from.
I think it's normal to be frustrated while trying to get a limited product and usually it dies out naturally if it was handled properly. However, if it's not handled properly and similar and new mistakes are created during the process, the frustration becomes outrage. Especially coming from a big corporation like Hasbro.
There were limited products in the past where only a small amount of people can have access to. However, they were mostly handled by distributors and stores (like Commander's Arsenal). I think people's frustration lasted less during these times although complaints existed. Complaints and frustration are always there for sure and with Internet venting it up is a normal reaction. However, having such a bad experience during the process isn't excusable and deserve criticism and outrage.
They shouldn't have marketed it as super limited to begin with. I know they wanted to make sure collectors this item would have low supply because of the past blunder and also create a cheap buzz/hype. However, they misinterpreted this. The problem wasn't the print run. It was the subpar selection. They overcompensated on both ends creating this scare in the process by disclosing the number. Something they normally don't do with consistency. Obviously it would make any potential buyer panic. Also the poorly edited listing probably led to cancellations from people who did really plan ahead for this.
I'm OK in missing out if it was fair and handled professionally. However, poor handling of the situation isn't excusable in any way and this was the case. Complaints and frustration are unavoidable. This whole amateur handling of situation was avoidable from the marketing to the final process.
Although this was a eBay problem, so they should take the culpability, the fundamental flaw of this whole *****show is WotC doesn't know how to handle supply and demand properly. It was very clear that this product would be extremely popular and demanding. It was clear it would generate so much traffic. If they didn't disclosed the print run and said it wouldn't be printed anymore after this batch, maybe it wouldn't generate this anxiety to not missing out. I'm OK in disclosing the amount, but I'm not OK in saying that was just it to make people hyped. EBay dropped the ball, but I think the ball was flawed to begin with. WotC created this avoidable situation and this is the result.
I don't even believe any online outlet would be handle this situation any better. It was the perfect storm for this bad happening and the final fault is with WotC.