If you want to go Null-W, what about Silas Renn, Seeker Adept & Tana, the Bloodsower instead? Silas Renn would more directly synergize with your theme, and Tana actually has some synergy with the go-wide strategy of artifact tokens. Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer in the 99 would be pretty saucy with Tana.
Seems like I'm following the trend. In no order of importance:
Lord Windgrace - seems like a deceptively powerful engine and not as combo-y as Gitrog. The fact his -3 both pays for future tax as well as giving you mana for Constant Mists or Sunstone protection is solid.
Saheeli, the Gifted - don't get me wrong, I love Daretti, but have really wanted a way to jam Arcum and Storm the Vault into a staxy artifact build. She's about as ideal a commander as you can get. Brudiclad def runs in the 99 here.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow - I've been wanting to trim colors from my Thrasios/Vial Smasher build for awhile, and this is an interesting way to do it. You can still run some large bombs like Expropriate, Archfiend of Despair, and Emrakul 2.0, albiet in a more aggro-y shell. Me gusta. Yennett is a close second choice here, but Yuriko seems like a more logical descendant of Vial Smasher (i.e., draw/play big cards = burn people).
Tuvasa the Sunlit - I feel like this one explains itself. Clearly fills a long existing gap for the archetype.
Atraxa has gained an unfortunate reputation as an annoyingly good super friends commander. After spending the time (and money) building Atraxa as a comparatively tame +1/+1 counter deck, that stigma still remains. Atraxa often becomes archenemy.
So if you like the 4-color aspect but hate Atraxa's stigma, you could always play Reyhan, Last of the Abzan & Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker partners. You'd be surprised how well-rounded Reyhan and Ishai are - Reyhan has a lot of strength in 1v1 matchups while Ishai can be a monster in multiplayer. You lose out a bit on non +1/+1 counter synergies (energy, PWs, etc.), but you can still throw down a pretty mean clock. I play a list that leans a bit more into an aristocrats type build - playing Reyhan on turn 3 and then feeding her to things like Disciple of Bolas, Natural Order, or Bloodspore Thrinax while redistributing her counters is pretty tech.
It's actually a planewalker deck, running 20 defenders. The idea is that the deck has to operate without Arcades, so at least the walls provide protection for the Super Friends.
That should work too. I guess I was thinking more of a blink shell than a superfriends shell. I think the point we're on agreement on is that smacking with walls is Plan B, not Plan A.
I think swinging out with walls should be the backup plan and NOT the primary wincon in this deck, as I believe Arcades' true power is his ability to gain card advantage while simultaneously building a pillow fort. Furthermore, I believe this deck should be built under the assumption that Arcades WILL get hated off the table simply because of that animation effect, how scary it is, and how fragile Arcades is as he has no built-in protection.
OK, so one of the best cards in the deck is...drum roll...Brago, King Eternal. Busted card draw engine once you have a few defenders and Arcades. On that note it's probably already been suggested by running Eerie Interlude.
There is also Ghostway if you wanted another effect like that.
So both of these things, in a nutshell. 30_Walls.dec is probably fine for a casual build, but I think it's a trap to just jam a bunch of walls and swing for a more streamlined build. The list I've got penciled out picks about 14-15 walls - all the decent ETB ones like Mnemonic Wall and the 4 cantrippers plus the "defender matters" ones. Given that Arcades cares about stuff ETB, I think you round out the rest of the deck with some blink enablers and the usual suspects for a Bant blink deck.
In that logic you are saying it needs to be a 60 card constructed competitive format for it to be draw-go.
That's not at all what I said, but if terribly paraphrasing me is what makes your argument make sense, go for it. You can certainly extrapolate 60-card archetypes to EDH. I think the point here is that by archetype definition, Draw-Go includes blue.
So, if I draw my card for the turn, play a land, and then pass turn to react to my opponents actions how is that now draw go?
I'm with GloriusGoose - when I think of the concept of "draw-go", I'm thinking of the archetype of Draw-Go - such named after Buehler's '98 Worlds mono-U control. The intention of draw-go is that you're holding up reactive countermagic, not doing other things.
If the goal is draw-go, Thrasios is the much better partner. Having an EOT mana sink plus access to ramp is huge. I play a Smasher/Thrasios deck, and it plays like BUGr control. I haven't found mana consistency to be an issue so long as green makes up a consistent part of the deck for ramp.
I think this is one spot where Daghatar the Adamant could shine since he passes counters between any creatures, you could bounce a +1/+1 counter between two of an opponent's creatures to draw card each time.
That's an interesting interaction. This is more along the lines of what I was driving at - in a vacuum, is draw 2 and a 1/4 body for 2G worth buffing two of your opponents' dudes? Stuff like Mathas and Gwafa, while cute, seem super gimmicky just to abuse some card draw.
Is Generous Patron any good outside of Hapatra/infect/group hug shenanigans? I feel like the support 2 for 2G is decent in "counters matter" decks like Atraxa or Reyhan/Ishai, and the ability to buff two opponents' dudes to draw 2 in a pinch seems gravy. I want to like this card, but I'm not a fan of the infect/group hug archetypes she seems obvious in.
Submerge: In a meta that reliably runs forests, which is practically every meta, this spells answers creatures of all sizes including indestructible ones for free. It is a fantastic way to respond to tutors and ramp spells and is difficult for opponents to see coming because we can cast it while tapped out.
I'll also point out that Submerge is decent tech for Vial Smasher + Ux lists as it becomes a Lava Axe as well. Snuff Out is also decent in that aspect.
Is Phyrexian Scriptures any good in Marchesa affinity builds? I agree that I don't like the telegraphing a wrath part, but giving Marchesa her counter w/o attacking as well as the fact that all the robots would dodge the wrath part seems decent to me.
Agreed. Just because you personally don't want to play against Niv 3.0 doesn't detract from the fact that he's a pretty good upgrade from Niv 1.0.
Lord Windgrace - seems like a deceptively powerful engine and not as combo-y as Gitrog. The fact his -3 both pays for future tax as well as giving you mana for Constant Mists or Sunstone protection is solid.
Saheeli, the Gifted - don't get me wrong, I love Daretti, but have really wanted a way to jam Arcum and Storm the Vault into a staxy artifact build. She's about as ideal a commander as you can get. Brudiclad def runs in the 99 here.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow - I've been wanting to trim colors from my Thrasios/Vial Smasher build for awhile, and this is an interesting way to do it. You can still run some large bombs like Expropriate, Archfiend of Despair, and Emrakul 2.0, albiet in a more aggro-y shell. Me gusta. Yennett is a close second choice here, but Yuriko seems like a more logical descendant of Vial Smasher (i.e., draw/play big cards = burn people).
Tuvasa the Sunlit - I feel like this one explains itself. Clearly fills a long existing gap for the archetype.
Her -1 on a Serra's Sanctum and then +2-ing is going to be a solid play
So if you like the 4-color aspect but hate Atraxa's stigma, you could always play Reyhan, Last of the Abzan & Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker partners. You'd be surprised how well-rounded Reyhan and Ishai are - Reyhan has a lot of strength in 1v1 matchups while Ishai can be a monster in multiplayer. You lose out a bit on non +1/+1 counter synergies (energy, PWs, etc.), but you can still throw down a pretty mean clock. I play a list that leans a bit more into an aristocrats type build - playing Reyhan on turn 3 and then feeding her to things like Disciple of Bolas, Natural Order, or Bloodspore Thrinax while redistributing her counters is pretty tech.
That should work too. I guess I was thinking more of a blink shell than a superfriends shell. I think the point we're on agreement on is that smacking with walls is Plan B, not Plan A.
So both of these things, in a nutshell. 30_Walls.dec is probably fine for a casual build, but I think it's a trap to just jam a bunch of walls and swing for a more streamlined build. The list I've got penciled out picks about 14-15 walls - all the decent ETB ones like Mnemonic Wall and the 4 cantrippers plus the "defender matters" ones. Given that Arcades cares about stuff ETB, I think you round out the rest of the deck with some blink enablers and the usual suspects for a Bant blink deck.
That's not at all what I said, but if terribly paraphrasing me is what makes your argument make sense, go for it. You can certainly extrapolate 60-card archetypes to EDH. I think the point here is that by archetype definition, Draw-Go includes blue.
I'm with GloriusGoose - when I think of the concept of "draw-go", I'm thinking of the archetype of Draw-Go - such named after Buehler's '98 Worlds mono-U control. The intention of draw-go is that you're holding up reactive countermagic, not doing other things.
That's an interesting interaction. This is more along the lines of what I was driving at - in a vacuum, is draw 2 and a 1/4 body for 2G worth buffing two of your opponents' dudes? Stuff like Mathas and Gwafa, while cute, seem super gimmicky just to abuse some card draw.
I'll also point out that Submerge is decent tech for Vial Smasher + Ux lists as it becomes a Lava Axe as well. Snuff Out is also decent in that aspect.