I made a similar thread a few months ago, and have been rocking a BG Rock deck in paper magic for a while now Gone through a lot of cards and this is currently where I'm at:
The rule for creatures is simple, either it replaces itself or it survives Evincar's Justice, or both.
Penumbra Spider is better than you give it credit for, it's great against Aggro and Control.
Starting to feel like Evincar's Justice should be Crypt Rats though (I was initially worried I would not have enough Black Mana). Though Evincar can be turn 3 earliest, were as Rats are always a turn later.
I also like Warren Pilferers, simply because they are 3/3s and you can chain them which is very relevant and makes me almost want to play 3 of them.
Explore/Rampant growth is split because I can't decide... I like Explore because mid/end game it isn't dead. I like Rampant because it guarantees ramp. Maybe Rampant should straight up be Wall of Roots? Though that doesn't help you get any Black which is important..
Sideboard is pretty simple, and the Ancient grudge is awesome and makes it technically a Jund deck (which is pretty sweet :P)
So.. what ya think? Questions etc. And yes I've had millions of fun with it and it can do well.
Guys & Gals my LGS runs pauper events every so often and that's awesome!
Except my store's metagame is full of really interactive decks like Boggles and Infect /end/sarcasm/end/.
There must be some strategies that stomp these kind of decks, or some sideboard cards atleast. I usually play BG maybe some red. My initial thoughts were Edicts, but unless u have one on turn 2, they just play another dude and sac him and continue to kill you turn 3 or whatever.
I feel like I'm missing something, because I'm pretty sure these decks aren't breaking the format on MODO?
Ajani v gains life I did not mean that you need finks- you need life gain with bob, esp if you run stuff that costs 4. The standard 3 copies of angry ajani plus 4 x drs and cards to make sure the bin is full to feed it is just about reasonable, although the number of new jund decks running hellkite is tiny and the match up vs faster decks in the format not that good any more.
With the meta you describe it doesn't matter though. You are perfectly placed to beat the decks you mentioned. When they discover what mountains are for you might have to worry, or at least include a couple of extra lifegain sources.
RE burning and taxes.
Dr Worm is spot on. Its not death and taxes. It runs 12 creatures. Most people equate death and taxes with flickerwisp tricks, vials and hatebears, esp thalia. What separates D and T from GW hatebears is the vial and tricks, as both run hatebears. The inclusion of 8 hatebears does not make it death and taxes- those same 8 hatebears are in other hatebear decks that are not posted here.
The name death and taxes is very non specific. But the deck runs 4 vial and 4 flickerwisp. We need a thread for other hatebear builds eg BW haterator
Fair enough.
And I guess I misunderstood what D&T was, I though it was about literally taxing your opponent, ie setting restrictions on what they can or can not do and draining their resources, I thought it was a strategy, as opposed to a specific choice of cards. Obviously certain cards lend to it, like Arbiter and co. but not Aether Vial and Flickerwisp in my imagination.
I'm gonna be that guy again an question how a deck with 12 creatures is D&T, since this deck is based off of WW and has always used creatures as it's control elements were ever possible. Seems more like a controlly boros burn build to me. If it were me and I wanted this to actually be D&T, I would add in at least 8 or more creatures (student and lavamancer probably to start) and ditch the cute tricks with scepter. Instead focus on qualit control creatures and a few high quality burn spells.
As for Bob...I have been back and forth on him, but in the end I have always preferred to have the deep dig that Mask of Memory gives. You have more chance to have the card you need when you need it.
I see Death... and I see Taxes.
Plus if you go to the primer page you see 4 giant cards! That deck has all of them
Regards Mask of Memory, I don't like it because it isn't a threat by itself, and it isn't as game changing as one of the swords. Also Bob can be down and useful on turn 2. But each to their own
I think bob is a great card -but a good addition to the deck as it stands though.
I think I would be worrying about bob going into hero or souls a couple of times. If it does then if you are playing new grull or RDW-x you are into game two. If it does vs combo then you won't be killing them any quicker.
D and T is a grindy deck- midrange- but cards like bob/arena just don't fit that pattern- without life gain cards like finks to back them up- so many decks 8 run red burn and snappy - the moment you do your self bob damage on top they will switch it to the head.
Of course your meta may have none of these decks-in which case ignore me.
Well some Jund and Junk decks run 4 bob with Hellkites, Ajanis, Lingering Souls etc and no Finks, so I think I'll be fine
And I superbly disagree, D&T is a grindy midrange deck, so card advantage is exactly what we want! What better hatebear than one that gives you an extra card over your opponent every turn?
Anyways, I won my first mini event at my LGS last night with my deck
Though it wasn't against a typical line up, beat Elf ball, Amulet of Vigor combo and Living end.
Strip mining people with a phyrexian arena in play felt awesome
Depending on your meta, I'm not impressed with maindeck Loxodon Smiters. I like the addition of Confidant because of the lack of gas that D&T can have, but as just mentioned, running three colors usually calls for proper mana fixing, which can be made more annoying by your own Arbiters, which are pretty crucial to the pacing of your deck.
But also, cards like Liliana and Phyrexian Arena having double black can be really even more of a thorn in your side. You've got a great pile of cards here, but I'm not sure how well they would interact. Let us know how testing goes.
I based the deck off the list that won the Diego PTQ, I think the Bobs are a great addition.
Why no on the smiters? They hate on discard and counterspells, survive bolts, block like champs and get damage in. Obviously, one would like the luxury of playing goyfs..
At the moment my lingering souls tokens are getting electrolyzed a lot. :/
Yes, mana can be rough, I want 1 or 2 verdant catacombs. But it usually isn't much of an issue.
It is easy to cut the green and make it BW splashing G for the Shamans. Maybe I should.
I have a Modern night at my LGS tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.
I am a BW Token player, but looked for some cards I can add to my BW base to essentially give me two decks for the price of 1 and a half this is what I have come up with after a lot of fiddling and testing (do note I am limited by cards I own)
What? I don't get any of the points of your post. How does becoming a creature from a graveyard break the color pie for a land? And besides it is a land, therefore colorless, therefore can do anything (look to artifacts if you don't believe me). Also why would any half-way decent player ever put a B/W land in a non-B/W deck? I mean even the Zendikar man-lands weren't shoved into any color deck, just because you liked the creature it could turn into.
lol the man lands required an activation cost of the appropriate mana, thereby making what we are discussing not possible -.-
and because to a non BW deck it is a colourless land that enters the battlefield tapped and does something unique/useful, similar to Cathedral of War.
I'm just saying if the format was just right I could see a red or green weenie deck using a few of these to make their mid-late game land drops matter with their aggressive 1-2 drops, and that would then be a design failure.
Really if you aren't bothered by that fact then you might as well go all the way out there and make the land tap for colourless.
4 Phyrexian Rager
2 Civic Wayfinder
4 Blastoderm
4 Penumbra Spider
2 Warren Pilferers
2 Duress
2 Rampant Growth
2 Explore
3 Sign in Blood
4 Geth's Verdict
2 Snuff Out
2 Evincar's Justice
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Evolving Wilds
9 Swamp
5 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Cuombajj Witches
1 Evincar's Justice
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Serene Heart
4 Choking Sands
2 Duress
The rule for creatures is simple, either it replaces itself or it survives Evincar's Justice, or both.
Penumbra Spider is better than you give it credit for, it's great against Aggro and Control.
Starting to feel like Evincar's Justice should be Crypt Rats though (I was initially worried I would not have enough Black Mana). Though Evincar can be turn 3 earliest, were as Rats are always a turn later.
I also like Warren Pilferers, simply because they are 3/3s and you can chain them which is very relevant and makes me almost want to play 3 of them.
Explore/Rampant growth is split because I can't decide... I like Explore because mid/end game it isn't dead. I like Rampant because it guarantees ramp. Maybe Rampant should straight up be Wall of Roots? Though that doesn't help you get any Black which is important..
Sideboard is pretty simple, and the Ancient grudge is awesome and makes it technically a Jund deck (which is pretty sweet :P)
So.. what ya think? Questions etc. And yes I've had millions of fun with it and it can do well.
Same goes for the fog deck, and cheers guys
Except my store's metagame is full of really interactive decks like Boggles and Infect /end/sarcasm/end/.
There must be some strategies that stomp these kind of decks, or some sideboard cards atleast. I usually play BG maybe some red. My initial thoughts were Edicts, but unless u have one on turn 2, they just play another dude and sac him and continue to kill you turn 3 or whatever.
I feel like I'm missing something, because I'm pretty sure these decks aren't breaking the format on MODO?
Fingers still crossed for the Split card and mythic!
Fair enough.
And I guess I misunderstood what D&T was, I though it was about literally taxing your opponent, ie setting restrictions on what they can or can not do and draining their resources, I thought it was a strategy, as opposed to a specific choice of cards. Obviously certain cards lend to it, like Arbiter and co. but not Aether Vial and Flickerwisp in my imagination.
My bad :/
I see Death... and I see Taxes.
Plus if you go to the primer page you see 4 giant cards! That deck has all of them
Regards Mask of Memory, I don't like it because it isn't a threat by itself, and it isn't as game changing as one of the swords. Also Bob can be down and useful on turn 2. But each to their own
Well some Jund and Junk decks run 4 bob with Hellkites, Ajanis, Lingering Souls etc and no Finks, so I think I'll be fine
And I superbly disagree, D&T is a grindy midrange deck, so card advantage is exactly what we want! What better hatebear than one that gives you an extra card over your opponent every turn?
Anyways, I won my first mini event at my LGS last night with my deck
Though it wasn't against a typical line up, beat Elf ball, Amulet of Vigor combo and Living end.
Strip mining people with a phyrexian arena in play felt awesome
I based the deck off the list that won the Diego PTQ, I think the Bobs are a great addition.
Why no on the smiters? They hate on discard and counterspells, survive bolts, block like champs and get damage in. Obviously, one would like the luxury of playing goyfs..
At the moment my lingering souls tokens are getting electrolyzed a lot. :/
Yes, mana can be rough, I want 1 or 2 verdant catacombs. But it usually isn't much of an issue.
It is easy to cut the green and make it BW splashing G for the Shamans. Maybe I should.
I have a Modern night at my LGS tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.
I am a BW Token player, but looked for some cards I can add to my BW base to essentially give me two decks for the price of 1 and a half
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Dark Confidant
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Lingering Souls
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Hero of Bladehold
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Profane Command
1 Phyrexian Arena
Disruption
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Woodland Cemetery
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Torpor Orb
2 Crime // Punishment
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Celestial Purge
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Duress
So yea, basically hating on all the search effects in the format, Deathrite provides me plenty of mana while I stipmine my opponent etc
Looking for feedback and probing questions to justify cards over other cards etc Thanks guys!
3 Ravenous Rats
4 Phyrexian Rager
3 Krosan Tusker
4 Blastoderm
2 Warren Pilferers
4 Penumbra Spider
2 Doom Blade
2 Snuff Out
2 Evincar's Justice
1 Raven's Crime
3 Cuombajj Witches
1 Evincar's Justice
2 Naturalize
1 Tranquility
4 Duress
4 Choking Sands
lol the man lands required an activation cost of the appropriate mana, thereby making what we are discussing not possible -.-
and because to a non BW deck it is a colourless land that enters the battlefield tapped and does something unique/useful, similar to Cathedral of War.
I'm just saying if the format was just right I could see a red or green weenie deck using a few of these to make their mid-late game land drops matter with their aggressive 1-2 drops, and that would then be a design failure.
Really if you aren't bothered by that fact then you might as well go all the way out there and make the land tap for colourless.
If this was ever used in a deck that didn't use B or W just as a value land then it is bad design imo