@Magix, fair doos
I personally think your deck is a bit drawn thin, only 2 knights, 3 souls and 1 Garruk, we don't have card selection like the blue decks do, that's why I prefer to go with consistency. You also have a lot of 3 drops. To be fair, only 3 more than me, but that is a big difference on the curve. Do you not ever feel clunked up there?
Yah, I moved to Drown a while ago, started with 1 then 2 now 3, and won't look back, the scrying is just so much bonus. Really like the card.
Knight is also awesome against Aggro/Control/Midrange and Combo. Tbh in an ideal world I think I would run 2 souls in my deck because I love the card. But I don't see anything that I can afford to cut.
Magix, you are misunderstanding the purpose of certain cards in general or in particular matchups, in my opinion of course
Tec edge and Fulimator Mage are almost never used for mana denial or mana screw, except in a few rare cases (keeping someone off triple U for cryptic etc), instead they are used for destroying specific lands that have a function:
Gavony Township, ink moth, collonade, treetop, all the man lands, tron lands etc
Path to exile doesn't hinder this function in anyway.
The only decks where u fire them off nearly indiscriminately is against Scapeshift and other non creature combo decks (storm, as nauseum etc)
Oh and ofcourse living end . Which brings me to the next card in question:
Path to exile is just the most mana efficient creature removal spell we can play in our colours. It doesn't care about persist or your graveyard abilities or your death triggers or what colour you are your size, it is truly non descriminate
However casting it in the early game can be quite a tempo loss sometimes, but generally the creatures cast in the early game we don't really care about because ours are bigger. Except for mana dorks in pod (one deck). Path is best in the midgame which is where we want to be. I've strongly considered other removal spells that are better in the early game, but I don't want to take 4 life from dismember (5 toughness is a rarity but does exist as well), slaughter pact can't be used in early game and I don't want even more 3 drops, disfigure and Darkblast are too narrow and drown is better out of the sideboard.
Now with regards to path against scapeshift, it's used to remove blocks for crucial attacks on crucial turns. They use their Sakura tribe elders as life gain spells to buy them turns, and pathing it means u get the damage in, they are getting the land no matter what. The card isn't ideal in this matchup, but it's not as bad as you think and it's just one matchup
Garruk does not at all need more tokens in the main deck, for two reasons. 1, knight is also good like souls with his ultimate (5/5 or more with +3/+3 and trample isn't something to scoff at) and I've won plenty of games doing so.
Secondly, you don't need to build your deck around garruk (especially only playing 2) he's good enough by himself!
Finally echoing some thoughts from Mastodon: knight is the bees knees! He is entirely right that the card is incredibly skill intensive asking you to decide who is the beat down each turn, but one of the beauties of her is that you can simply decide to become the beat down yourself by fetching for vault and making huge life swings each turn! Negating most offensive forces in the meta game.
She grinds, she pressures, she interacts immensely with almost every decks game plan, she even ramps u if u need it. Souls only does one of those things, grinds, and pressures very slowly. Souls is a hindrance against combo, knight is an all star.
As for sideboarding, thank you for your comments and input! Definitely helped and I agree with some
Pod: I don't have a mana denial plan as discussed I have found Decay to be mediocre, and have routinely reached the end game only to be killed by a thrun, a dork and Gavony. One thrun isn't enough to make me want Liliana but I feel Gavony is really important for them to win. However u are right in that we have 6 answers between knight and tec edge that I am open to keeping some decays instead
Affinity: good catch! a typo! I have it in my notes: Affinity and storm are the only decks I take garruk out against. I usually keep in TS (though empty their hand so quickly sometimes) or Bob (draw answers). So I agree.
UR Twin: that's some really good points. I wasn't really thinkng about what I was siding in tbh, just that I didn't want sorcery removal and that scooze is lacking. But I agree with he analysis, pulse stays and cut one scooze for seal. Don't need fulminator. Id rather have the paths and not need them for game 2 then need them and not have them, then if there is a game 3 I'll know what plan they are on. Thanks.
RUG Twin: I agree, -3 IoK, +1 seal +2 fulm/censor, depending on how I feel
Scapeshift: need to test timely more
Tron: strongly disagree, garruk isn't too slow, and we need as many win conditions we can get. Hoping to hit a map with decay is not worth it :/ and I'd rather have 1 seal than 1 decay ofcourse
Delver: it is pretty much a burn deck, which is why I am hesitant on the TS, though you make a good point about the tempo loss of them bolting a censor, have to think/test on that. But yea it generally is a good matchup, havnt lost to it yet.
Storm: sweet cheers, in which case how many do I/we want? It also kills electromancer which is sweet, 2?
Merfolk: I could see cutting 2 bobs for 2 lilianas. I don't like the lilis because of cursecatchers, vials and mutavaults.
Zoo: I'm not taking out TS because of smiter. I'm talking about Aggro tribal flames zoo, I've never seen BigZoo, and imagine it to be a bit of a walk in the park to be honest so it's a similar match as UR delver, aggressive creatures and burn, except drown is bad and liliana is good.
But I could see 2 TS instead of censors, just really don't want the life loss
Thanks for the comments!
Edit: the hatebird griffin! I agree it's better than orb and It probably is better than fulm against pod and twin, but there's not room for it in the sideboard! Really need fulm for UWR tron scape shift and other combo decks etc :/ and is rather have censor than it for similar reasons. Only flexible slots are 1 timely and the scooze I think, but I like the life gain and board presence that both provide in many matches so any replacement would had to do a similar role, like Batterskull etc
Okay, time to talk about sideboards I think :), list is currently the same as before, but with only 3 Lilis and trying 1 Maelstrom Pulse in its place
I'm currently 21-10 with different iterations of this deck in competitive events in my city here, so I'm really happy with the general deck, just fine tuning numbers now and making sure I understand strategy for each match up.
UR Twin: A lot of twin side in batterskull, Relic and Spellskite against us, so consider next leveling with Stony Silence
-2 Scooze ----- +2 Fulm/+1/2 Stony?
-1 Pulse ----- +1 Seal
RUG Twin: This basically morphs into another midrange deck with Batterskull, Swords, Keranos and Threads of Disloyalty
-1 IoK ----- +1 Seal,
-2 IoK? ----- +1 Fulm/Censor/Stony?
GBx: Topdeck wars! Timely is awesome tempo play and also negates liliana
-4 TS ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-3 IoK ----- +1 Scooze, +2 Timely
Scapeshift: Want to test timely more because it can rise our life totals back above 18, effectively being a stone rain against the combo (maybe to cute :P)
-4 Decay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-2 Path ----- +2 Timely ?
RG Tron: Sometimes they just have it, but I beat two Karns with one garruk and some creatures before, which was sweet (garruk so good)
-4 ADecay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-2 Scooze ----- +2 Stony
-1 Vault? ----- +1 Seal?
UR Delver: Pyromance makes liliana poor, and I may cut the last one for the extra cage
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +1 Scooze, +1 Cage
-4 Bob ----- +3 Drown, +1 Seal
-2 Lili ----- +2 Censor (blocks Delver)
Burn: For game one pray they get a creature based draw or that you can get to vault on time
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +1 Scooze, +1 TS/Drown
-4 Bob ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
UWR Control
-4 Decay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
Storm
-4 Path ----- +2 Cage, +1 Seal, +1 Scooze/Drown? (Do they board in empty? Need to find that out)
-2 Garruk ----- +2 Fulm
Hatebears
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +1 Seal (swords and vial), +1 Scooze
-3 Liliana ----- +3 Drown
UB Fae
-3 IOK ? ----- +2 Fulm, +1 Seal? (It usually ends up in topdeck wars, but I want the discard for counters, cryptics and blossom)
-3 Lili ----- +3 Drown
Living End: (remember, you can target yourself with discard, our creatures are better than theirs!)
-4 ADecay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Timely
-1 Pulse ----- +1 Scooze
I do have a lot of thoughts on all the matchups, but I don't want to type them all out! If you have questions about certain matchups or uses of sideboard cards, I'd be more than happy to explain my understanding and get a discussion going.
seal of primordium could be qasali pridemage. I know it dies to creature removal, but I still think we'd rather have qasali pridemage, IMO.
Seal has the benefit of being far easier to cast through bloodmoon which is a big deal, also not dying to creature removal is precisely what I want. Twin runs loads of burn, I don't want my out to their Twin/Sword/Batterskull/Threads/BloodMoon being answered by snap bolt :/
@tjd2191, yah I'm aware of the interaction I was actually one of the last to board the Knight train, sticking to souls for a long time, but despite the synergy with liliana I'd rather be playing Knight because it's far better against combo while still being huge against everything else. And Knight and garruk go together just as well as Garruk and souls
So yah, Garruk is so real! He's a 2 mana threat, which is great, because so many decks you don't want to tap out against. And the other decks, playing him into a two mana removal spell, or a 2 mana creature is awesome. Tonight I played Garruk untapping into timely reinforcements next turn swinging for easily lethal with my 3/3 tokens and 8/8 knight
The curve is ALMOST perfect, 21, 15, 12, 8, 4. Be perfect if it was 20, 16, 12, 8, 4, but that's because I like patterns. I stuck Ooze with Garruk because he's mana intensive, but of course they both cost only 2 mana really.
I've tried a lot with no basic plains because drawing it can be really annoying, but I've found having it available to fetch is so necessary, as well as the second Temple Garden in Knight chains sometimes. Also 25 lands is a must I think. Speaking of, I'm not playing any crappy lands Vault and Tec Edge are real, so are the man lands, only questionable one is Bog, but I like the utility (means I only need 2 scoozes main as well)
Burn is hard, always is though, Pod is still difficult, but it's not at all impossible. Feel good about most other things, including GBx obviously.
Only thing I'm really thinking on now is changing one liliana into a pulse or pact or dismember etc, but I really want 4 of them in the deck and don't think there is anything else I want to cut.
I'll post sideboard thoughts tomorrow, would like to see peoples opinions on that
So the explanation on how valakut and scapeshift works is kind of complicated...
...So to answer your question, yes, but sometimes they don't always have a basic mountain to get...
Maybe I should have prefaced my comment with "I understand the Tec Edge Valakut interaction" since it is commonly misunderstood, annoyingly by Scapeshift players some time too
Here's a summary of some of my thoughts on the Scapeshift match-up:
We build and pilot our decks with the assumption our opponents can competently pilot theirs (of course, take advantage when they don't ;))
Scapeshift can deal 18 damage with 7 lands in play, a scapeshift, and 6 mountains + 1 Valakut in their library.
Tec Edging in response to valakut triggers ruins their combo, turning it into a glorified lightning bolt. They know this (they should know this).
As such, if you have a land destruction card in play (a tec edge, Fulminator (a ghost quarter in play is pretty worthless)) the Valakut player will wait until they have 8 lands in play to combo off , since going off before is pointless, and doing it with 8 negates 1 land destruction card.
To all intents and purposes an untapped knight represents a tec edge, so the Valakut player will wait until they have 8 lands.
You aren't going to "get" a competent valakut player at a competitive event.
If you are at less than 18 life, a scapeshift player needs to play 7+X lands to win, where X is the number of land destruction cards you have played at ANY point in time. Using your tec edge before they scapeshift or after, it doesn't matter. If they want to win they need 7+X lands, where X is the number of LD cards you have used on them.
So keeping this in mind, what should we do?
Firstly, leaving up a knight, waiting for them to scapeshift, is a waste of knight beats!
Generally you want to use your land destruction spells at your earliest convenience for two reasons:
1) Leaving up Tec Edge mana, or Knight wastes our resources
2) Hitting them earlier restricts the amount of spells they can cast, and what spells they can cast (they need double green for shift and triple blue for cryptic)
If I have a tec edge I use it as soon as it is convenient for me, if I don't need it, then right now, if I need the mana for this turn then I'll consider waiting till next turn etc. You don't want to keep up your mana waiting for them.
If I untap with a knight in play, I'll generally move to combat to bait cryptic and if they don't cryptic I'll weight up the situation: how big is my knight, what is their life total, do I know the contents of their hand etc but it's pretty good just to tec edge them their, it bufss your knight by two for the next turns (if you do the math you can determine if this reduces or actually increases ur clock, or it just doesn't matter etc)
The exception is fulminator mage, she can attack and still sacrifice, so you kind of want her for the damage until the last possible moment.
So considering all of the above, Ghost Quarter is pretty inconsequential in my opinion.
Infact it is my opinion that the chances of Vault being relevant are actually greater than ghost quarters, because swinging with some big creatures can raise your life above 18, effectively acting as a LD spell making them need another land card.
I'm sure you know this, but for everyone else, be careful, if a scapeshift player untaps with 5 lands in play and draws to 3 cards in hand they can kill you O_o
I side in 2 Mindcensors, 2 Fulminators, make sure I have 8 discard spells and 4 lilianas plus some number of Cage (snapping a scapeshift you discarded is real) for the matchup.
On a seperate note: I've been testing Elspeth as a 4 drop, and she's sweet, jumping a fat goyf or knight gives us the reach we lack, she's an offensive and defensive tool that I really like to see in most matches tbh, her only problem is double white, but as a 4 drop I'm definitely giving her a chance.
I'll post an updated list after my testing today
Another note: I can never decide on 24 or 25 land, running 2 4 drops I'm now inclined to 25 for me.
Yah, I used to run Pulse, but I cut it for a few reasons:
1) 3 mana removal spell :/ in a format/deck about efficiency
2) Not many necessary targets. UWr control aren't running many planeswalkers these days, the most popular walkers are Lili and Domri. Creatures with higher than 3 CMC we can answer with path or lili. The only real targets are Karn and Pod. Both of those cards are still subject to discard, and I dont think I want to run it just because of top decked Pods/Karns. Batterskull we beat with Goyf and Knight being bigger.
3) Multiples of things: yah ruining a tribal deck, tokens or storm is pretty sweet, but they arent matchups I'm too concerned about at the moment
4) The GB decks have to run it because their removal isn't as good tbh
5) I'd have to cut a card for it, maybe 1 decay? but I'd rather have the decay against Twin, GBx, Affinity etc and we already have 8 3 drops
6) It's just a 1 of
7) I haven't missed it yet
8) I wouldn't hold it against you for running it though, I love the card too
As for list, I don't have a lot of criticism, more so: questions.
Questions are good! Thank you
Darkblast is really sweet, it's a fine maindeck card. Has plenty of targets in Pod and Affinity, against GBx it wins Goyf mirrors and kills bob, obviously has strengths in the weenie decks too. Best thing about it is you can just discard it to Lili (like all cards, she's so good) and then get it back when ever you like.
However, that being said, I was thinking last night about the fact that we already have such good removal spells (the best) that we don't need more, and as such should be playing more haymakers instead. Gerry Tompson is currently running Night of the Souls Betrayl in his GB sideboard, I want to go bigger and run Curse of Death's Hold, esppecially as we can ramp to 5 with Knight. It's good against Pod, Affinity, Twin, GBx, Weeniedecks etc So will be testing that over the next week.
The lands are one of the best reasons to run Knight! Game 1 against UWr control, before combat my opponent flashes in a snapcaster mage casting cryptic command, I say sloowwww down, tap my knight, get bojuka bog, and swing with my goyf, sure he's now a 3/4 instead of a 4/5 but now he's chumping with his snap and got no value. Having maindeck graveyard hosing that's tutorable along with the 3 scoozes is huge!
Pass with knight to block, eot get a vault, attack activate and gain a million is huge against all of the aggressive decks. Just knowing I always have that eventual life gain gives me the gaurenteed inevitability
And I don't need to sell you on 2 tec edges
Yah I agree with sideboard batterskull, Tomoharu Saitou (name drop, a friend of a friend, I've beat him in casual packwars :P)has been running sideboard Bloodline Keeper! Going to try it
Golgari charm is sweet, but I think I'm realising that I want bigger things again
Qasali Pridemage is an interesting one! My only fear being that GW on 2 can be difficult, I enjoy that our heaviest cards as Lili and Knight and they are both on 3, and we tend to want GB on turn 2 anyway, so decay isnt that bad. But it is an extremely flexible card, if I feel like I'm missing art/ench destruction that's somewhere I would turn
Finally, it seems like you missed something on Cage, it stops the actual use of birthing pod and Chord of calling too! as well as revilark. I also use it against Storm, Pox, UWr with snaps and random stuff. I admit it is narrow, but Pod is such a shaky match up and it hates on them soo much I really want them.
I've decided to go with the brutal consistency approach after seeing Saitou's list, just playing the cheapest most powerful cards we have against as many different strategies (so many powerful four ofs!) and add another land (the second swamp) bringing my testing list for this week (its always changing, I'll start to settle as I get closer to the event) to this monster:
This list runs slightly less removal than the normal BGx decks, but ours is more powerful and we have more threats because of Knight, which are far more dangerous and not just generic beat sticks either, they are versatile monsters
of note, our sideboards contain a lot of 3s, but that's usually ok, because against some matches we are taking out liliana for other 3s, and against other matches we actually want to raise our curve so we have the more powerful deck (Midrange/control etc)
Hi Junk Mages, been playing Junk in all formats (Std, Mod & Leg) for nearly 2 years now, I just love the colours and feel.
With Modern PTQs, decided to focus on Modern Junk, and finally came around on Knight instead of Souls
Came up with a list and its been doing well in my local scene (I live in Japan, Nagoya)
Went 5-1 in a competitive event, 2-1 (7-2 for the day) in a small one after and then last weekend came second in a GPT, going 6-3, losing to Scapeshift in the finals (I played it 3 times that day! going 3-4 against it in overall games, I wasn't running Fulminator and now know the error of my ways..)
So far I'm 13-5 in competitive events, and really happy with the deck. We have Path and the biggest midrange creature in the format, plus tutorable land destruction, life gain and graveyard hate, along with the black disruption package and bob.
I plan on going to a PTQ in two weeks and GP Kobe in August which is also Modern (going to be sweeeet), testing nearly every night at the moment, so sourcing for as many opinions discussion as possible, hence here, hi
Current list has a core and then some flexible slots:
So yea some flexy slots and the cards I'm considering.
I know I am running the Batterskull, Thoughtsieze and Liliana just not sure where, so that leaves 3 more flexy slots. I'm inclined to run them all maindeck for consistency.. but 8 discard isn't great against aggro etc
Also saw some discussion on swords, and I agree they belong in the sideboard, though Sword of F&F does replace itself manawise and as such is a great tempo play against the not so fast decks in the format.
Magic is hard game.
But yah, thoroughly happy with the deck at the moment, thoroughly happy with my version, just looking for criticism and advice on the last few cards.
Happy to post sideboard thoughts if people want that too, for example Pod is difficult to sideboard for, and wondering how people do that.
Cheers, and may your 3 Bobs in play always flip 2 lands and a Slaughter pact like mine do
Edit: Currently testing Golgari Charm, Batterskull and Courser maindeck, with Lili, Feast and Famine and Thoughtsieze in the side, courser feels real good (though it could be a lingering souls, *sigh*)
Do you find 22 lands to be too few? I would hate to have to mulligan because i couldn't hit my colors in the opening hand. Additionally, how do you like playing the Elvish Mystics? I prefer the Caryatids. I dont like the idea of Golgari Charming my own critters. Not to mention the mini wall a Caryatid can be. I am not sure what kind of 2drop you are looking for. Caryatid may be an option or Skylasher. Do you like Mistcutter Hydra over Skylasher? If so, why? I know Smiter seems like a vanilla 3 drop, but he can slow aggro by himself. That is his talent.
I am all to familiar with the shocking ourselves concern. It can be the cause of some close games. I personally use Scavenging Ooze and BBV. I find that BBV is just too powerful to toss aside. I havent played with the Mangler yet. Is haste really that important for us? His "enchant" ability is a 5cmc use which is also BBV so i dont get how BBV is too expensive. I really do not like Satyr. End of turn drop in is good, trade for a BBV is good but he dies to magma jet and other 2/x critters. You will not see him in any of my decklists. I am not a fan of Solider of Pantheon. His multicolor protection prevents any unflinching courage fun and the uncommon Selesnya buff.
I like the Orzhov charm. I hadnt really considered it. I do use putrefy instead. I could try to switch them and see what I prefer. I do like the putrefy's ability to destroy artifacts too but the charm is very versatile too. I will definitely test it out.
Lastly, since Junk is generally more curvy by its very nature, why not have 1 bbv or ghost council. Something that can curve and change the board state in our favor.
I look forward to tuning this archetype. I am a fan of these colors.
Statistically speaking, with the mystics, I feel 22 lands is adequate, though I am willing to move to the safer side of 23, probably adding a swamp, as there are no other untapped black sources we can play. Though that could just be wrong and it should be the last temple of silence..
I don't like sylvan cyratid in this kind of deck at all :/ mystic is there so if you don't have experiment one you can compensate by playing your 3 mana spells on turn 2 right. Cyratid doesn't do that, it ups your mana curve, jumps u from 2 to 4, which isn't what we want and it can't attack.
The golgari charm getting the mystics is pretty much a non issue :/ you decide whether to cast it or not, and if you've used the mystic to get a 3 drop out and then more large creatures on the following turn then it's done it's job and I'm willing to sacrifice it for a psuedo plague wind
Mistcutter/skylasher, I haven't actually tested either to be honest, hvnt played MUD with it yet. Theorising, Mistcutter is good against UW as well, where as lasher not really, and that's it. Definitely could be wrong on that
I also really like loxodon smiter, but dreg mangler is definitely generally the better 3 drop for this.
Turn 1 X1, turn 2 lion, attack for 2, turn 3 mangler attack for 9, yes please.
Smiter is good, but if I would start shaving numbers that is where I would start (if the mana isn't a concern)
Comparing dreg mangler scavenge to bloodbaron isn't right.
Dreg mangle is a 3 mana creature we have 4 of and play on a turn for an immediate surprise impact. Ideally turn 2 or turn 3, but 4 and 5 are still fine.
Bloodbaron is a 5 mana creature that can't do anything until we have 5 mana, though what it does is very strong, fair. But to include it in deck you have to cut cards and add more mana, and raise your mana curve, diluting all the aggression. Dreg mangler is an aggressive 3 drop that ALSO gives u a potential 5 mana play if you get there. Bloodbaron is a slow 5 drop that you have to wait to cast and then attack with.
I did have some in the sideboard, but cut them.
With them you're going midrange again, and being slow and clunky again :/
Im thinking of cutting a smiter for a land and a Selesnya charm for a putrefy, the sideboard also needs changing.
Also going to try -2 decays - putrefy and Selesnya charm + 4 thoughtseize and seeing how I like that.
That's for testing purposes, I always use 4 ofs for testing
Edit: the new -2/-2 1BB is exactly what this deck wanted! Can't wait to test with it!
So yea, want to start preparing for a PTQ soon and started brewing something. I realised my Junk Midrange deck was taking too much damage from shocks and seizes for Aggro and wasn't pressuring Control enough.
Figured if I go more aggressive, me taking damage is less of an issue and it puts more pressure on control, while we can still survive aggro with some tricks I'll show you.
I decided to test the deck the past weekend, and went 4-1 in one event (no third game was played in any of the matches) and 3-1 in the other.
I beat Esper, RW, BG, BG, lost to Jund creatures with Flesh/Blood,
Lost to Esper Humans (no experience with match, sideboarded bad), then beat RW, Bant Control and mono black*. I have a lot of confidence in it, but feel it needs some internet hivemind loving.
* Turn 2 pack rat is bad against us, because our creatures on curve are just bigger than pack rats, it's happened against me a few times now, it just doesn't work.
Edit: just realised the TCG article is in a similar vain, so I'm even more confident
Edit 2: I used to run Blood Barons but cut them cause they were so damn expensive and I usually won way before I could cast them (in hand, though my land count is low of course, I always just wished they were a cheaper creature), I had them in the sideboard, but I cut them there too, same reasons.
The game plan is to quickly get a commanding board presence and then secure the win with the best counterspells in the format (see all those 2 mana instants : )
So points, I tried soldier of the pantheon, and wasn't too keen, though I'm willing to go back, which I'll talk about later
3 drops: A lot of people say Satyr maindeck, but I think Mangler is better. They are essentially the same card, except Mangler has haste which is awesome, and then you get it's "enchantment" mode after it dies. Which is way better on curve, it also doesn't die to the myriad of Emmisaries, and 2/1s
Satyr is GG, which I guess is easier than GB, but no haste, and once it's cast on curve you can't get it's enchantment mode
Anyways, I would like to cut some smiters I guess for more two drops, but I can't think of any good ones (call of the conclave?? Selesnya Charm?) or maybe one drops.
I love the charms, though I could see moving numbers around, and Orzhov Charm doesn't hit the Dragon, but Putrefy costs 3 mana..
All stuff to think about. Best card in the deck is Experiment One by far, then Advent of the Wurm and Golgari Charm.
The Sideboard, feel there should be another seize (I could even see these main deck to some extent?), I don't think the Underworld Connections belong there.
I foresee a rise in RW devotion decks, and I'm not sure what to do about their nut draws except Thoughtseize and Ratchet Bomb on 2..
Anyways, yah this is a sweet deck I want to work on for some time now.
"Loyalty" counters, lol Gideon can't be that loyal if he's working for my opponent as well. In fact he doesn't even like himself, he keeps attacking himself.
I personally think your deck is a bit drawn thin, only 2 knights, 3 souls and 1 Garruk, we don't have card selection like the blue decks do, that's why I prefer to go with consistency. You also have a lot of 3 drops. To be fair, only 3 more than me, but that is a big difference on the curve. Do you not ever feel clunked up there?
Yah, I moved to Drown a while ago, started with 1 then 2 now 3, and won't look back, the scrying is just so much bonus. Really like the card.
Knight is also awesome against Aggro/Control/Midrange and Combo. Tbh in an ideal world I think I would run 2 souls in my deck because I love the card. But I don't see anything that I can afford to cut.
And yah, I agree on switching out Gavony
Magix, you are misunderstanding the purpose of certain cards in general or in particular matchups, in my opinion of course
Tec edge and Fulimator Mage are almost never used for mana denial or mana screw, except in a few rare cases (keeping someone off triple U for cryptic etc), instead they are used for destroying specific lands that have a function:
Gavony Township, ink moth, collonade, treetop, all the man lands, tron lands etc
Path to exile doesn't hinder this function in anyway.
The only decks where u fire them off nearly indiscriminately is against Scapeshift and other non creature combo decks (storm, as nauseum etc)
Oh and ofcourse living end
Path to exile is just the most mana efficient creature removal spell we can play in our colours. It doesn't care about persist or your graveyard abilities or your death triggers or what colour you are your size, it is truly non descriminate
However casting it in the early game can be quite a tempo loss sometimes, but generally the creatures cast in the early game we don't really care about because ours are bigger. Except for mana dorks in pod (one deck). Path is best in the midgame which is where we want to be. I've strongly considered other removal spells that are better in the early game, but I don't want to take 4 life from dismember (5 toughness is a rarity but does exist as well), slaughter pact can't be used in early game and I don't want even more 3 drops, disfigure and Darkblast are too narrow and drown is better out of the sideboard.
Now with regards to path against scapeshift, it's used to remove blocks for crucial attacks on crucial turns. They use their Sakura tribe elders as life gain spells to buy them turns, and pathing it means u get the damage in, they are getting the land no matter what. The card isn't ideal in this matchup, but it's not as bad as you think and it's just one matchup
Garruk does not at all need more tokens in the main deck, for two reasons. 1, knight is also good like souls with his ultimate (5/5 or more with +3/+3 and trample isn't something to scoff at) and I've won plenty of games doing so.
Secondly, you don't need to build your deck around garruk (especially only playing 2) he's good enough by himself!
Finally echoing some thoughts from Mastodon: knight is the bees knees! He is entirely right that the card is incredibly skill intensive asking you to decide who is the beat down each turn, but one of the beauties of her is that you can simply decide to become the beat down yourself by fetching for vault and making huge life swings each turn! Negating most offensive forces in the meta game.
She grinds, she pressures, she interacts immensely with almost every decks game plan, she even ramps u if u need it. Souls only does one of those things, grinds, and pressures very slowly. Souls is a hindrance against combo, knight is an all star.
As for sideboarding, thank you for your comments and input! Definitely helped and I agree with some
Pod: I don't have a mana denial plan as discussed
Affinity: good catch! a typo! I have it in my notes: Affinity and storm are the only decks I take garruk out against. I usually keep in TS (though empty their hand so quickly sometimes) or Bob (draw answers). So I agree.
UR Twin: that's some really good points. I wasn't really thinkng about what I was siding in tbh, just that I didn't want sorcery removal and that scooze is lacking. But I agree with he analysis, pulse stays and cut one scooze for seal. Don't need fulminator. Id rather have the paths and not need them for game 2 then need them and not have them, then if there is a game 3 I'll know what plan they are on. Thanks.
RUG Twin: I agree, -3 IoK, +1 seal +2 fulm/censor, depending on how I feel
Scapeshift: need to test timely more
Tron: strongly disagree, garruk isn't too slow, and we need as many win conditions we can get. Hoping to hit a map with decay is not worth it :/ and I'd rather have 1 seal than 1 decay ofcourse
Delver: it is pretty much a burn deck, which is why I am hesitant on the TS, though you make a good point about the tempo loss of them bolting a censor, have to think/test on that. But yea it generally is a good matchup, havnt lost to it yet.
Storm: sweet cheers, in which case how many do I/we want? It also kills electromancer which is sweet, 2?
-4 path, -2 garruk, -1 vault
+2 cage, +1 seal, +2 drown, +2 fulm
Merfolk: I could see cutting 2 bobs for 2 lilianas. I don't like the lilis because of cursecatchers, vials and mutavaults.
Zoo: I'm not taking out TS because of smiter. I'm talking about Aggro tribal flames zoo, I've never seen BigZoo, and imagine it to be a bit of a walk in the park to be honest
But I could see 2 TS instead of censors, just really don't want the life loss
Thanks for the comments!
Edit: the hatebird griffin! I agree it's better than orb and It probably is better than fulm against pod and twin, but there's not room for it in the sideboard! Really need fulm for UWR tron scape shift and other combo decks etc :/ and is rather have censor than it for similar reasons. Only flexible slots are 1 timely and the scooze I think, but I like the life gain and board presence that both provide in many matches so any replacement would had to do a similar role, like Batterskull etc
I'm currently 21-10 with different iterations of this deck in competitive events in my city here, so I'm really happy with the general deck, just fine tuning numbers now and making sure I understand strategy for each match up.
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Archangel
One Drops 15
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
Three Drops 8
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Pseudo Four Drops 4
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Drown in Sorrow
My current plans and understandings, question marks mean I'm not sure.
Pod: Grindy matchup, key cards are their early mana advantage from dorks and gavony township
-3 IoK ----- +2 Cage, +1 Scooze
-4 Decay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-3 Liliana ----- +3 Drown
Affinity: Key cards are plating, and inkmoth nexus
-4 TS ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor (Blocks Inkmoth etc)
-4 Bob ----- +2 Stony, +1 Seal, +1 Scooze/Timely
-3 Lili ----- +3 Drown,
UR Twin: A lot of twin side in batterskull, Relic and Spellskite against us, so consider next leveling with Stony Silence
-2 Scooze ----- +2 Fulm/+1/2 Stony?
-1 Pulse ----- +1 Seal
RUG Twin: This basically morphs into another midrange deck with Batterskull, Swords, Keranos and Threads of Disloyalty
-1 IoK ----- +1 Seal,
-2 IoK? ----- +1 Fulm/Censor/Stony?
GBx: Topdeck wars! Timely is awesome tempo play and also negates liliana
-4 TS ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-3 IoK ----- +1 Scooze, +2 Timely
Scapeshift: Want to test timely more because it can rise our life totals back above 18, effectively being a stone rain against the combo (maybe to cute :P)
-4 Decay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-2 Path ----- +2 Timely ?
RG Tron: Sometimes they just have it, but I beat two Karns with one garruk and some creatures before, which was sweet (garruk so good)
-4 ADecay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
-2 Scooze ----- +2 Stony
-1 Vault? ----- +1 Seal?
UR Delver: Pyromance makes liliana poor, and I may cut the last one for the extra cage
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +1 Scooze, +1 Cage
-4 Bob ----- +3 Drown, +1 Seal
-2 Lili ----- +2 Censor (blocks Delver)
Burn: For game one pray they get a creature based draw or that you can get to vault on time
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +1 Scooze, +1 TS/Drown
-4 Bob ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
UWR Control
-4 Decay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
Storm
-4 Path ----- +2 Cage, +1 Seal, +1 Scooze/Drown? (Do they board in empty? Need to find that out)
-2 Garruk ----- +2 Fulm
Merfolk
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +2 Fulm
-3 Liliana ----- +3 Drown
Hatebears
-4 TS ----- +2 Timely, +1 Seal (swords and vial), +1 Scooze
-3 Liliana ----- +3 Drown
UB Fae
-3 IOK ? ----- +2 Fulm, +1 Seal? (It usually ends up in topdeck wars, but I want the discard for counters, cryptics and blossom)
-3 Lili ----- +3 Drown
Zoo
-4 TS ----- +1 Scooze, +1 Seal, +2 Timely
-4 Bob ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Censor
Living End: (remember, you can target yourself with discard, our creatures are better than theirs!)
-4 ADecay ----- +2 Fulm, +2 Timely
-1 Pulse ----- +1 Scooze
I do have a lot of thoughts on all the matchups, but I don't want to type them all out! If you have questions about certain matchups or uses of sideboard cards, I'd be more than happy to explain my understanding and get a discussion going.
Seal has the benefit of being far easier to cast through bloodmoon which is a big deal, also not dying to creature removal is precisely what I want. Twin runs loads of burn, I don't want my out to their Twin/Sword/Batterskull/Threads/BloodMoon being answered by snap bolt :/
@tjd2191, yah I'm aware of the interaction
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Archangel
One Drops 15
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
Three Drops 8
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Pseudo Four Drops 4
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Drown in Sorrow
So yah, Garruk is so real! He's a 2 mana threat, which is great, because so many decks you don't want to tap out against. And the other decks, playing him into a two mana removal spell, or a 2 mana creature is awesome. Tonight I played Garruk untapping into timely reinforcements next turn swinging for easily lethal with my 3/3 tokens and 8/8 knight
The curve is ALMOST perfect, 21, 15, 12, 8, 4. Be perfect if it was 20, 16, 12, 8, 4, but that's because I like patterns. I stuck Ooze with Garruk because he's mana intensive, but of course they both cost only 2 mana really.
I've tried a lot with no basic plains because drawing it can be really annoying, but I've found having it available to fetch is so necessary, as well as the second Temple Garden in Knight chains sometimes. Also 25 lands is a must I think. Speaking of, I'm not playing any crappy lands
Burn is hard, always is though, Pod is still difficult, but it's not at all impossible. Feel good about most other things, including GBx obviously.
Only thing I'm really thinking on now is changing one liliana into a pulse or pact or dismember etc, but I really want 4 of them in the deck and don't think there is anything else I want to cut.
I'll post sideboard thoughts tomorrow, would like to see peoples opinions on that
Maybe I should have prefaced my comment with "I understand the Tec Edge Valakut interaction" since it is commonly misunderstood, annoyingly by Scapeshift players some time too
Here's a summary of some of my thoughts on the Scapeshift match-up:
We build and pilot our decks with the assumption our opponents can competently pilot theirs (of course, take advantage when they don't ;))
Scapeshift can deal 18 damage with 7 lands in play, a scapeshift, and 6 mountains + 1 Valakut in their library.
Tec Edging in response to valakut triggers ruins their combo, turning it into a glorified lightning bolt. They know this (they should know this).
As such, if you have a land destruction card in play (a tec edge, Fulminator (a ghost quarter in play is pretty worthless)) the Valakut player will wait until they have 8 lands in play to combo off , since going off before is pointless, and doing it with 8 negates 1 land destruction card.
To all intents and purposes an untapped knight represents a tec edge, so the Valakut player will wait until they have 8 lands.
You aren't going to "get" a competent valakut player at a competitive event.
If you are at less than 18 life, a scapeshift player needs to play 7+X lands to win, where X is the number of land destruction cards you have played at ANY point in time. Using your tec edge before they scapeshift or after, it doesn't matter. If they want to win they need 7+X lands, where X is the number of LD cards you have used on them.
So keeping this in mind, what should we do?
Firstly, leaving up a knight, waiting for them to scapeshift, is a waste of knight beats!
Generally you want to use your land destruction spells at your earliest convenience for two reasons:
1) Leaving up Tec Edge mana, or Knight wastes our resources
2) Hitting them earlier restricts the amount of spells they can cast, and what spells they can cast (they need double green for shift and triple blue for cryptic)
If I have a tec edge I use it as soon as it is convenient for me, if I don't need it, then right now, if I need the mana for this turn then I'll consider waiting till next turn etc. You don't want to keep up your mana waiting for them.
If I untap with a knight in play, I'll generally move to combat to bait cryptic and if they don't cryptic I'll weight up the situation: how big is my knight, what is their life total, do I know the contents of their hand etc but it's pretty good just to tec edge them their, it bufss your knight by two for the next turns (if you do the math you can determine if this reduces or actually increases ur clock, or it just doesn't matter etc)
The exception is fulminator mage, she can attack and still sacrifice, so you kind of want her for the damage until the last possible moment.
So considering all of the above, Ghost Quarter is pretty inconsequential in my opinion.
Infact it is my opinion that the chances of Vault being relevant are actually greater than ghost quarters, because swinging with some big creatures can raise your life above 18, effectively acting as a LD spell making them need another land card.
I'm sure you know this, but for everyone else, be careful, if a scapeshift player untaps with 5 lands in play and draws to 3 cards in hand they can kill you O_o
I side in 2 Mindcensors, 2 Fulminators, make sure I have 8 discard spells and 4 lilianas plus some number of Cage (snapping a scapeshift you discarded is real) for the matchup.
On a seperate note: I've been testing Elspeth as a 4 drop, and she's sweet, jumping a fat goyf or knight gives us the reach we lack, she's an offensive and defensive tool that I really like to see in most matches tbh, her only problem is double white, but as a 4 drop I'm definitely giving her a chance.
I'll post an updated list after my testing today
Another note: I can never decide on 24 or 25 land, running 2 4 drops I'm now inclined to 25 for me.
Sweet. How do you stop Scapeshift with a GQ? if they have a basic mountain in there deck it just adds to the damage they do, right? :/
Solid list, but you only have 23 lands listed. Perhaps a Treetop Village, or Vault is needed?
I'm wondering what the ghost quarter is for in the side?
Anywaysm, good lucks and have funs
1) 3 mana removal spell :/ in a format/deck about efficiency
2) Not many necessary targets. UWr control aren't running many planeswalkers these days, the most popular walkers are Lili and Domri. Creatures with higher than 3 CMC we can answer with path or lili. The only real targets are Karn and Pod. Both of those cards are still subject to discard, and I dont think I want to run it just because of top decked Pods/Karns. Batterskull we beat with Goyf and Knight being bigger.
3) Multiples of things: yah ruining a tribal deck, tokens or storm is pretty sweet, but they arent matchups I'm too concerned about at the moment
4) The GB decks have to run it because their removal isn't as good tbh
5) I'd have to cut a card for it, maybe 1 decay? but I'd rather have the decay against Twin, GBx, Affinity etc and we already have 8 3 drops
6) It's just a 1 of
7) I haven't missed it yet
8) I wouldn't hold it against you for running it though, I love the card too
Questions are good! Thank you
Darkblast is really sweet, it's a fine maindeck card. Has plenty of targets in Pod and Affinity, against GBx it wins Goyf mirrors and kills bob, obviously has strengths in the weenie decks too. Best thing about it is you can just discard it to Lili (like all cards, she's so good) and then get it back when ever you like.
However, that being said, I was thinking last night about the fact that we already have such good removal spells (the best) that we don't need more, and as such should be playing more haymakers instead. Gerry Tompson is currently running Night of the Souls Betrayl in his GB sideboard, I want to go bigger and run Curse of Death's Hold, esppecially as we can ramp to 5 with Knight. It's good against Pod, Affinity, Twin, GBx, Weeniedecks etc So will be testing that over the next week.
The lands are one of the best reasons to run Knight! Game 1 against UWr control, before combat my opponent flashes in a snapcaster mage casting cryptic command, I say sloowwww down, tap my knight, get bojuka bog, and swing with my goyf, sure he's now a 3/4 instead of a 4/5 but now he's chumping with his snap and got no value. Having maindeck graveyard hosing that's tutorable along with the 3 scoozes is huge!
Pass with knight to block, eot get a vault, attack activate and gain a million is huge against all of the aggressive decks. Just knowing I always have that eventual life gain gives me the gaurenteed inevitability
And I don't need to sell you on 2 tec edges
Yah I agree with sideboard batterskull, Tomoharu Saitou (name drop, a friend of a friend, I've beat him in casual packwars :P)has been running sideboard Bloodline Keeper! Going to try it
Golgari charm is sweet, but I think I'm realising that I want bigger things again
Qasali Pridemage is an interesting one! My only fear being that GW on 2 can be difficult, I enjoy that our heaviest cards as Lili and Knight and they are both on 3, and we tend to want GB on turn 2 anyway, so decay isnt that bad. But it is an extremely flexible card, if I feel like I'm missing art/ench destruction that's somewhere I would turn
Finally, it seems like you missed something on Cage, it stops the actual use of birthing pod and Chord of calling too! as well as revilark. I also use it against Storm, Pox, UWr with snaps and random stuff. I admit it is narrow, but Pod is such a shaky match up and it hates on them soo much I really want them.
I've decided to go with the brutal consistency approach after seeing Saitou's list, just playing the cheapest most powerful cards we have against as many different strategies (so many powerful four ofs!) and add another land (the second swamp) bringing my testing list for this week (its always changing, I'll start to settle as I get closer to the event) to this monster:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Scavenging Ooze
Land 25
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Twilight Mire
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Curse of Death's Hold
1 ??? Batterskull/Baneslayer/Bloodline Keeper/Thrun/Phyrexian Arena/Sword of X&X
This list runs slightly less removal than the normal BGx decks, but ours is more powerful and we have more threats because of Knight, which are far more dangerous and not just generic beat sticks either, they are versatile monsters
of note, our sideboards contain a lot of 3s, but that's usually ok, because against some matches we are taking out liliana for other 3s, and against other matches we actually want to raise our curve so we have the more powerful deck (Midrange/control etc)
edit: Saitou's concoction https://twitter.com/TomoharuSaito/status/475656023462539264?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=TomoharuSaito&utm_content=475656023462539264
With Modern PTQs, decided to focus on Modern Junk, and finally came around on Knight instead of Souls
Came up with a list and its been doing well in my local scene (I live in Japan, Nagoya)
Went 5-1 in a competitive event, 2-1 (7-2 for the day) in a small one after and then last weekend came second in a GPT, going 6-3, losing to Scapeshift in the finals (I played it 3 times that day! going 3-4 against it in overall games, I wasn't running Fulminator and now know the error of my ways..)
So far I'm 13-5 in competitive events, and really happy with the deck. We have Path and the biggest midrange creature in the format, plus tutorable land destruction, life gain and graveyard hate, along with the black disruption package and bob.
I plan on going to a PTQ in two weeks and GP Kobe in August which is also Modern (going to be sweeeet), testing nearly every night at the moment, so sourcing for as many opinions discussion as possible, hence here, hi
Current list has a core and then some flexible slots:
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Darkblast
4 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
Threats 15 (+ Lilis)
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 ???
Land 24
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Twilight Mire
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tectonic Edge
3 ???
2 Stony Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Batterskull
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Thoughtseize
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Darkblast
1 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Phyrexian Arena
So yea some flexy slots and the cards I'm considering.
I know I am running the Batterskull, Thoughtsieze and Liliana just not sure where, so that leaves 3 more flexy slots. I'm inclined to run them all maindeck for consistency.. but 8 discard isn't great against aggro etc
Also saw some discussion on swords, and I agree they belong in the sideboard, though Sword of F&F does replace itself manawise and as such is a great tempo play against the not so fast decks in the format.
Magic is hard game.
But yah, thoroughly happy with the deck at the moment, thoroughly happy with my version, just looking for criticism and advice on the last few cards.
Happy to post sideboard thoughts if people want that too, for example Pod is difficult to sideboard for, and wondering how people do that.
Cheers, and may your 3 Bobs in play always flip 2 lands and a Slaughter pact like mine do
Edit: Currently testing Golgari Charm, Batterskull and Courser maindeck, with Lili, Feast and Famine and Thoughtsieze in the side, courser feels real good (though it could be a lingering souls, *sigh*)
Statistically speaking, with the mystics, I feel 22 lands is adequate, though I am willing to move to the safer side of 23, probably adding a swamp, as there are no other untapped black sources we can play. Though that could just be wrong and it should be the last temple of silence..
I don't like sylvan cyratid in this kind of deck at all :/ mystic is there so if you don't have experiment one you can compensate by playing your 3 mana spells on turn 2 right. Cyratid doesn't do that, it ups your mana curve, jumps u from 2 to 4, which isn't what we want and it can't attack.
The golgari charm getting the mystics is pretty much a non issue :/ you decide whether to cast it or not, and if you've used the mystic to get a 3 drop out and then more large creatures on the following turn then it's done it's job and I'm willing to sacrifice it for a psuedo plague wind
Mistcutter/skylasher, I haven't actually tested either to be honest, hvnt played MUD with it yet. Theorising, Mistcutter is good against UW as well, where as lasher not really, and that's it. Definitely could be wrong on that
I also really like loxodon smiter, but dreg mangler is definitely generally the better 3 drop for this.
Turn 1 X1, turn 2 lion, attack for 2, turn 3 mangler attack for 9, yes please.
Smiter is good, but if I would start shaving numbers that is where I would start (if the mana isn't a concern)
Comparing dreg mangler scavenge to bloodbaron isn't right.
Dreg mangle is a 3 mana creature we have 4 of and play on a turn for an immediate surprise impact. Ideally turn 2 or turn 3, but 4 and 5 are still fine.
Bloodbaron is a 5 mana creature that can't do anything until we have 5 mana, though what it does is very strong, fair. But to include it in deck you have to cut cards and add more mana, and raise your mana curve, diluting all the aggression. Dreg mangler is an aggressive 3 drop that ALSO gives u a potential 5 mana play if you get there. Bloodbaron is a slow 5 drop that you have to wait to cast and then attack with.
I did have some in the sideboard, but cut them.
With them you're going midrange again, and being slow and clunky again :/
Im thinking of cutting a smiter for a land and a Selesnya charm for a putrefy, the sideboard also needs changing.
Also going to try -2 decays - putrefy and Selesnya charm + 4 thoughtseize and seeing how I like that.
That's for testing purposes, I always use 4 ofs for testing
Edit: the new -2/-2 1BB is exactly what this deck wanted! Can't wait to test with it!
Figured if I go more aggressive, me taking damage is less of an issue and it puts more pressure on control, while we can still survive aggro with some tricks I'll show you.
I decided to test the deck the past weekend, and went 4-1 in one event (no third game was played in any of the matches) and 3-1 in the other.
I beat Esper, RW, BG, BG, lost to Jund creatures with Flesh/Blood,
Lost to Esper Humans (no experience with match, sideboarded bad), then beat RW, Bant Control and mono black*. I have a lot of confidence in it, but feel it needs some internet hivemind loving.
* Turn 2 pack rat is bad against us, because our creatures on curve are just bigger than pack rats, it's happened against me a few times now, it just doesn't work.
Edit: just realised the TCG article is in a similar vain, so I'm even more confident
Edit 2: I used to run Blood Barons but cut them cause they were so damn expensive and I usually won way before I could cast them (in hand, though my land count is low of course, I always just wished they were a cheaper creature), I had them in the sideboard, but I cut them there too, same reasons.
The game plan is to quickly get a commanding board presence and then secure the win with the best counterspells in the format (see all those 2 mana instants : )
4 Experiment One
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Orzhov Charm
2 Golgari Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
5 Forest
2 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Godless Shrine
3 Temple of Silence
3 Unflinching Courage
1 Last Breath
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Golgari Charm
3 Thoughtseize
2 Underworld Connections
2 Boon Satyr
2 Mistcutter Hydra
So points, I tried soldier of the pantheon, and wasn't too keen, though I'm willing to go back, which I'll talk about later
3 drops: A lot of people say Satyr maindeck, but I think Mangler is better. They are essentially the same card, except Mangler has haste which is awesome, and then you get it's "enchantment" mode after it dies. Which is way better on curve, it also doesn't die to the myriad of Emmisaries, and 2/1s
Satyr is GG, which I guess is easier than GB, but no haste, and once it's cast on curve you can't get it's enchantment mode
Anyways, I would like to cut some smiters I guess for more two drops, but I can't think of any good ones (call of the conclave?? Selesnya Charm?) or maybe one drops.
I love the charms, though I could see moving numbers around, and Orzhov Charm doesn't hit the Dragon, but Putrefy costs 3 mana..
All stuff to think about. Best card in the deck is Experiment One by far, then Advent of the Wurm and Golgari Charm.
The Sideboard, feel there should be another seize (I could even see these main deck to some extent?), I don't think the Underworld Connections belong there.
I foresee a rise in RW devotion decks, and I'm not sure what to do about their nut draws except Thoughtseize and Ratchet Bomb on 2..
Anyways, yah this is a sweet deck I want to work on for some time now.
Some white planeswalker he is.