Was just reminded of this card in another thread: Pyreheart Wolf. I started thinking that maybe it is a better replacement of Iroas in this deck:
Pros of Iroas, God of Victory :
Indestructible
Is an enchantment so it can be found by enchantment tutors and is invulnerable to removal.
Also provides protection from combat damage (not just evasion)
Pros of Pyreheart Wolf :
Creature so it can be found by Recruiter and has synergies with all the other cards in the deck.
Can be returns by Alesha
Even without Alesha is double use unless hit by exile removal
Is one cheaper than Iroas
What do you think, is this a good swap?
I think this is a poor swap. Granted Pyreheart wolf has undying you have to be attacking with it in order to gain the effect. Iroas effect is always there as long as he is on the battlefield, not to mention the indestructibility is also helpful. I would 100% keep Iroas.
I never thought about the addition of Loyal Retainers. I think this is another great combo this deck can have, I also can bring back Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in my list. I am definetly going to be adding this card, I'll let you guys know if I have any issues with it.
Shrieking Mogg is pretty cool with a sac outlet, swing all, target the Mogg and hit in unblocked. Repeatable with sac outlet.
I suggested this card in another thread for Alesha, it has a VERY powerful effect, however it is only good if you are reanimating it with Alesha. Other that that it has performed very poor and I just recently took it out of my decklist.
-1 Knight-Captain of Eos
-1 Night's Whisper
-1 Sign in Blood
-1 Triskellion
-1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
-1 Plains
-1 Swamp
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Steelshaper's Gift
+1 Zealous Conscripts
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
+1 Ambition's Cost
+1 High Market
+1 Phyrexian Tower
Straightforward changes for the most part. I'm running Swords as my primary protection for Alesha and FaF has a great effect. The discard is particularly nasty in my meta. I never got to play with Knight-Captain of Eos, but he seemed like a weaker version of Geist-Honored Monk in that she is both defensive (Vigilance) and aggressive (*/* body), wheras the Knight-Captain is purely defense. The Knight-Captain stops opponent's Sword and Jitte triggers which is pretty good so he might work his way back into the list at some point. I needed more sac outlets, so out come basics and in go nonbasics.
Should we play Memory Jar? It says draw 7, and you can use it on someone else's turn as disruption. We can keep using the cards after we discard them with Alesha, and it doesn't create negative CA like Wheel does. Seems worth including but 5 mana is a lot, especially without a way to recur it.
Taking a look at your list from above again I still feel like you are really creature light. I think you could easily just cut out the signets, lanter, ingot, mindstone, and talisman for dudes.
Let me know how Geist-Honored Monk works out for you. I can imagine it being quite good but I feel it's also a bit slow at 5 cmc. Memory Jar seems great if you have interaction with artifacts in your list, for example by adding Goblin Welder. Otherwise I think wheel is better and even it isn't that necessary with the great card draw we already have. Although we can make use of cards we discard, that's only creatures with power 2 or less. Others are already much more difficult and we have few ways to get back artifacts and enchantments. To help this I'm thinking of adding auramamcer to recur enchantments and goblin welder for artifacts. Are there any other creatures which recur artifacts right away?
I'm also looking at adding a Heliod's Pilgrim package although it may be too weak. Animate Dead , Splinter Twin / Gift of Immortality, and Chained to the Rocks could already be a pretty solid package, although space in the list is already very tight. Recurrable tutors are very good with Alesha though, even if the pilgrim is a bit less powerful than Recruiter, Mystic and Matron. What do you think?
I think Geist-Honored Monk is a fine addition to the deck. I am, however, not really sold on Memory Jar, like capitacom said if you choose to stick with all the artifact ramp I think it is fine, but 5 mana is a lot, I think I would want to do something else with that mana.
Heliod's Pilgrim is cute, being able to tutor up animate dead is really powerful and I have always been a fan of Splinter Twin even if we can't really combo with it and just use it for value. It seems pretty good if we have Purphoros, God of the Forge and splinter twin on say a siege gang commander.
I will probably consider a small aura package in the future.
If we do consider a dread return/unburial rights package in this deck would you consider Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite? I know we want to try and combo off/be an aggro deck, but I feel at time Alesha can have problems closing out a game. She provides and immediate effect unlike Angel of Thune, however I wouldn't swap these cards out since they are both insanely powerful. Plus Elesh clears a way for our creatures to get in.
Treasonous Ogre is also an insane card in this style of deck, it allows us to deploy extra threats early in the game while also having the ability to become larger than a 2/3, not to mention you can also recur him with Alesha. It would be nice if we could use the mana he generated on Alesha's ability but I am fine with paying three life and essentially adding a colorless mana to start throw down two or three dudes on turn 5. I would definitely try and test with him if you haven't.
I also think that Reconnaissance is fine. It allows you to attack freely on a cluttered board using Alesha's ability. While not only protecting her but the creature she brings back who can potentially win you the game if it is the missing combo piece you need.
Hey everyone, I am new to the pauper format and decided to pickup this deck. The list I am using is as followed (thanks Zephyr!)
Do you have a generic sideboard for an unknown meta? I have ideas of what I may want to include but would like to know what your guy's suggestions for an unknown meta might be.
3 Helix, 3 Spear, and 2 Pillar was enough to get me there 6/7 times I have ulted chandra, the last time I ulted her I hit an Rites which was enough for me to get there.
I am glad you like the Price and I think dropping a Helix was a justified call. The list looks pretty sweet actually.
The 3rd Obzedat seems strange, control has plenty of ways to get rid of him and it is kind of annoying but I cannot see myself wanting 3 of this guy in the 75.
I also feel that 4 Lootings on 25 land might be a bit much with only 1 Unburial Rites. 3 should be the right count I think, mainly because I noticed that between 25 land and 4 looting, I find myself discarding nonland considerably more often than I was with 26 and 4 when I was not running Unburial Rites. Idk, these numbers are kind of a catch 22 I suppose.
I like that there is no bomb and just extra Wear//Tear in the board, let me know how that impacts your aggro matches and your hexproof matches. I have a hard time dropping bomb, it is still great against Aristocrats, Elves and token strategies that randomly find their way into the middle stages of an event. Aristocrats is one of the bigger selling points of Ratchet Bomb... but man do I want the room I could have instead of them.
4 Helix's seemed like a bit much and made my curve kind of awkward. Being able to take down two creatures against aggro on turn 4 is real nice especially when you can just lay down a Blood Baron next turn. Like at times I almost want to even go down to 2 Helix's but I know it will probably just bite me in the ass later. It is one of my favorite cards in the deck, very good removal and stabilizer. Plus I know I mentioned it in my ast posts, you can dome your opponent with it, gives us extra reach to finish out games faster.
I'm about to edit it, the third Obzedat was a mistake and should be a ratchet bomb in the side. Originally I was running 1 Obzedat main and 1 in the board but ultimately decided to just stick with two in the main.
I am mutual with 4 lootings at the moment. It is real nice having multiple in your opening hand. However I do see your point and it does concern me slightly. I usually only use them later in the game when I am looking for an answer that is not in my hand. I may go down to 3, just going to test it a bit more and see how it goes. If I do decide to go to three I will probably place a Liliana or Rakdos Return in the main in place of a looting.
Well I kind of nullified this last statement. I think Ratchet Bomb is somewhat essential as it can deal with multiple decks fairly nicely. I am just testing the third wear // tear based on your speculation also. Haven't came to a conclusion yet on it but I will let you know for sure about my feelings on it.
Gifts how is your list agressive? you run few creatures and they are high CMC. I ask because I tried an aggressive approach and had it fall apart after two months and my curve was a lot lower than yours. someone said that 26 lands is necessary with lootings and this could be where my list started to fall apart. as posted I would not consider your deck aggressive. Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
I may have worded it badly but I was just trying to state that the list I am using is slightly more aggressive than some lists posted. 2 TMH + Auerlia seems like more of an aggressive approach than say a play set of blood baron and Olivia's not to mention I am running a fairly larger burn package than most lists. I think 4 lootings and 26 lands is perfect, but 25 lands with 4 lootings may be pushing it. I will probably drop a looting for a Liliana or Rakdos Return if I feel like i am having an issue.
I really do enjoy the 2/1 split of Doom Blade and Ultimate Price. I can see why some people can chose not to run Ultimate Price but I haven't had too much of a problem with it thus far. However I see people cutting Searing Spear for these, yes doom blade/ultimate price have better reach but 3 damage to the opponents face can be game breaking especially in a list as aggressive as mine.
I can see why most people have dropped lingering souls from their lists now. Haven't had any success with it.
Boros Charm can be sweet at times but in a deck like this you can just run straight up better cards. I am testing out a list that plays cards like Young Pyromancer, lingering souls, hellrider, sorin, ect.. with Boros Charm. If it has any success I will definitely post it here.
Civilwargoat, I'd suggest you don't compare Sin Collector to Duress but just simply explain why you think Sin Collector is bad for the deck on its own, regardless of what other card(s) could fill the slot. I think Kamahl's getting hung up on the comparison with Duress, at which point he does make a couple of decent arguments.
I thought you were done with this conversation. Seems like you wish to continue blathering on about how you have all of these mathematical and philosophical theories backing your thoughts on a deck that doesn't put up major tournament wins or appearances. You continue to ignore mana cost and purpose of SC vs Duress as well as their weaknesses vs certain match ups and why this merits main deck inclusion. You claim to use SC as a beat down creature with an up side, in a list that runs few low CMC creatures which negates its usefulness as a beat down creature. As for blocking creatures, this is a complete joke. Any opponent attacking into a SC and presenting you with an opportunity to trade his creature for SC either had a plan for this block and or reason to do so based on cards in hand, or is making serious play mistakes. This brings to question this card's roll. You are main decking a card that is normally found in the sideboard of midrange/control decks to combat control decks. So again i'll ask is SC here to rip cards out of hands or to be a ground pounder, because it does neither one of those better than other cards, like Duress (which I admit is not a main deck card) or Vampire Nighthawk.
SC isn't suppose to be better than both Duress or Nighthawk... obviously Nighthawk is a better beater and Duress is better at ripping cards out, however having the utility of doing both of these things (on a lesser scale) is what makes SC good.
This is the list that I have been testing for the past week. Not really sure about the sb yet but it would include some numbers of Wear // Tear, LBZ, Pillar of Flame, Rest in Peace, ect.
Boros Charm is a card that I am testing as a 1 of. I really like it in lists that choose to run Lingering Souls + Aurelia, the Warleader. If it weren't for those two cards I probably wouldn't conisder running it.
I believe that's the trick with Zo-Zu the Punisher. Ignus wouldn't work as this deck wants Vial at three, right? (honest question, I'm not playing it, just scouting as a possible future deck)
Vial can be set at three or two. Honestly it all just depends on your starting hand.
Zo-Zu just acts like a counter I guess. You vial it in response to them scapeshifting and they can choose not to sacrifice their lands or not. He just creates awkward situations for your opponent to deal with.
Anyways I am somewhat new to the modern scene. I have kept up with the metagame happenings though, just never really got into it. I really enjoy this deck and have been testing it for the past few days. I am pretty much just running a standard list. Hopefully once I get more acquainted with the deck I can help a bit more with the discussions to help this deck be more successful.
I think this is a poor swap. Granted Pyreheart wolf has undying you have to be attacking with it in order to gain the effect. Iroas effect is always there as long as he is on the battlefield, not to mention the indestructibility is also helpful. I would 100% keep Iroas.
I never thought about the addition of Loyal Retainers. I think this is another great combo this deck can have, I also can bring back Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in my list. I am definetly going to be adding this card, I'll let you guys know if I have any issues with it.
I suggested this card in another thread for Alesha, it has a VERY powerful effect, however it is only good if you are reanimating it with Alesha. Other that that it has performed very poor and I just recently took it out of my decklist.
Taking a look at your list from above again I still feel like you are really creature light. I think you could easily just cut out the signets, lanter, ingot, mindstone, and talisman for dudes.
What about adding cards like Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Butcher of the Horde, or even Brutal Hordechief/Hellrider?
I think Geist-Honored Monk is a fine addition to the deck. I am, however, not really sold on Memory Jar, like capitacom said if you choose to stick with all the artifact ramp I think it is fine, but 5 mana is a lot, I think I would want to do something else with that mana.
Heliod's Pilgrim is cute, being able to tutor up animate dead is really powerful and I have always been a fan of Splinter Twin even if we can't really combo with it and just use it for value. It seems pretty good if we have Purphoros, God of the Forge and splinter twin on say a siege gang commander.
I will probably consider a small aura package in the future.
Treasonous Ogre is also an insane card in this style of deck, it allows us to deploy extra threats early in the game while also having the ability to become larger than a 2/3, not to mention you can also recur him with Alesha. It would be nice if we could use the mana he generated on Alesha's ability but I am fine with paying three life and essentially adding a colorless mana to start throw down two or three dudes on turn 5. I would definitely try and test with him if you haven't.
I also think that Reconnaissance is fine. It allows you to attack freely on a cluttered board using Alesha's ability. While not only protecting her but the creature she brings back who can potentially win you the game if it is the missing combo piece you need.
Do you have a generic sideboard for an unknown meta? I have ideas of what I may want to include but would like to know what your guy's suggestions for an unknown meta might be.
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Trinket Mage
2 Guardian of the Guildpact
3 Mulldrifter
Instant (15)
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
3 Judge Unworthy
2 Last Breath
4 Mana Leak
3 Treasure Cruise
Equipment (3)
1 Viridian Longbow
1 Sylvok Lifestaff
1 Bonesplitter
Land (22)
4 Tranquil Cove
2 Kabira Crossroads
3 Desert
4 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
4 Helix's seemed like a bit much and made my curve kind of awkward. Being able to take down two creatures against aggro on turn 4 is real nice especially when you can just lay down a Blood Baron next turn. Like at times I almost want to even go down to 2 Helix's but I know it will probably just bite me in the ass later. It is one of my favorite cards in the deck, very good removal and stabilizer. Plus I know I mentioned it in my ast posts, you can dome your opponent with it, gives us extra reach to finish out games faster.
I'm about to edit it, the third Obzedat was a mistake and should be a ratchet bomb in the side. Originally I was running 1 Obzedat main and 1 in the board but ultimately decided to just stick with two in the main.
I am mutual with 4 lootings at the moment. It is real nice having multiple in your opening hand. However I do see your point and it does concern me slightly. I usually only use them later in the game when I am looking for an answer that is not in my hand. I may go down to 3, just going to test it a bit more and see how it goes. If I do decide to go to three I will probably place a Liliana or Rakdos Return in the main in place of a looting.
Well I kind of nullified this last statement. I think Ratchet Bomb is somewhat essential as it can deal with multiple decks fairly nicely. I am just testing the third wear // tear based on your speculation also. Haven't came to a conclusion yet on it but I will let you know for sure about my feelings on it.
I may have worded it badly but I was just trying to state that the list I am using is slightly more aggressive than some lists posted. 2 TMH + Auerlia seems like more of an aggressive approach than say a play set of blood baron and Olivia's not to mention I am running a fairly larger burn package than most lists. I think 4 lootings and 26 lands is perfect, but 25 lands with 4 lootings may be pushing it. I will probably drop a looting for a Liliana or Rakdos Return if I feel like i am having an issue.
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Chandra, Pyromancer
Legendary Creatures (3)
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Instant (8)
2 Doom Blade
3 Searing Spear
1 Ultimate Price
3 Warleader's Helix
Sorcery (11)
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Faithless Looting
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Unburial Rites
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Slayer's Stronghold
2 Sin Collector
3 Wear // Tear
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Rest in Peace
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Duress
Here is the list I am running now. Some notes.
I really do enjoy the 2/1 split of Doom Blade and Ultimate Price. I can see why some people can chose not to run Ultimate Price but I haven't had too much of a problem with it thus far. However I see people cutting Searing Spear for these, yes doom blade/ultimate price have better reach but 3 damage to the opponents face can be game breaking especially in a list as aggressive as mine.
I can see why most people have dropped lingering souls from their lists now. Haven't had any success with it.
Boros Charm can be sweet at times but in a deck like this you can just run straight up better cards. I am testing out a list that plays cards like Young Pyromancer, lingering souls, hellrider, sorin, ect.. with Boros Charm. If it has any success I will definitely post it here.
Thoughts or possible changes?
SC isn't suppose to be better than both Duress or Nighthawk... obviously Nighthawk is a better beater and Duress is better at ripping cards out, however having the utility of doing both of these things (on a lesser scale) is what makes SC good.
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Sin Collector
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Legendary Creatures (3)
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Instant (8)
1 Boros Charm
2 Doom Blade
2 Searing Spear
1 Ultimate Price
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Faithless Looting
2 Lingering Souls
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Unburial Rites
Land (25)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Slayer's Stronghold
This is the list that I have been testing for the past week. Not really sure about the sb yet but it would include some numbers of Wear // Tear, LBZ, Pillar of Flame, Rest in Peace, ect.
Boros Charm is a card that I am testing as a 1 of. I really like it in lists that choose to run Lingering Souls + Aurelia, the Warleader. If it weren't for those two cards I probably wouldn't conisder running it.
Zo-Zu just acts like a counter I guess. You vial it in response to them scapeshifting and they can choose not to sacrifice their lands or not. He just creates awkward situations for your opponent to deal with.
Anyways I am somewhat new to the modern scene. I have kept up with the metagame happenings though, just never really got into it. I really enjoy this deck and have been testing it for the past few days. I am pretty much just running a standard list. Hopefully once I get more acquainted with the deck I can help a bit more with the discussions to help this deck be more successful.