Well, after a little break i'm back to playing azusa every now and again when i have time. So far i'm 2-0 since my return. i've beaten GAAIV and GoST ( not easy by any means), so things are looking good right off the bat. I added a few more draw engines, and just recently added Not of this World which can be clutch in protecting your threats. Eureka is another card i've been messing with, and has been a pretty fun. fortunately, I haven't been punished for using it yet.
A small update. I did like the idea of moving Jace, MA to the board in favor of Sphinx main after some more thought, so good call TOG thanks for the extra push. I guess I was thinking about more situations where i'm ahead to justify jace, MA. I didn't get to test much last night, but i beat my friend's esper deck in the one match i did get to test. I changed the board a good amount, and i like how it looks and feels.
Adept is fine in the board, fantastic even, but both Jace in the same 60 seems awkward imo.
they both serve different roles, and that's why i think it's a good enough reason to put both of them in there. Jace, AOT is almost always going to -2 all day everyday and when he's not -2'ng you shouldn't be playing Adept anyway. the basic idea is that Jace, AOT is your Sphinx's Revelation and you want to keep chaining them so that you draw all of your answers since all of them except for Ratchet bomb and Far // Away don't provide card advantage.
I was running 4 Jace, AoT and 1 Jace, MA for a while in Esper and I liked that set up. But 4/4 is completely overkill. You will have one stick and have 2 more in your hand wondering "WTF?"
I wanted to share my list in hopes of getting some more opinions on it or get some discussion going about certain cards.
I'm shocked to say the least, but in my testing on cockatrice i'm undefeated from about 12 matches(small results to pull from overall, but still holds some merit) with various users playing decks ranging from Mono Red, Naya, GR Devotion, U devotion, Esper, and BW Midrange. At worst I would say i'm at a good starting point.
The deck looks pretty straight-forward. probably the 2 biggest things i'm doing that are different is using Jace, Memory Adept as my Alternate Win con, and using Dimir Charm.
Jace, Memory Adept: If you remember last season he was a house and this season is no different. I added him as an extra card drawer since i don't have Azorious Charm to cantrip, and i feel light playing only 9 cards that draw. He also finishes the game fairly quickly. I had also initially considered Prognostic Sphinx in this spot.
Dimir Charm: This was just a dumb idea i wanted to try out, but it's been working above my expectation. there are A LOT of <=2 power creatures in this format which makes it Doom Blade 9-12 against most aggro/Devotion matches (the problem area for this Archetype). Against midrange you're using Dimir Charm as a counterspell for their Disruption(Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return) and Card Advantage (Read the Bones). Against Control you're kind of waiting until you are ahead to really use it to full power for example if their behind on say land drops you can keep it that way.
Here's a list i've been working out so far the past few weeks. I plan on tuning this more for states coming up soon, so any good help or suggestions would be awesome, thanks.
I've been working on a deck on the side that resembles this deck very closely, and have been having a lot of fun, and surprisingly good results with. It's a tempo deck, and aims for an earlier game than the OP's list. I'm testing Rapid Hybridization, because it's a cute synergy with Tidebinder Mage (turning big dudes into green frogs then being able to tap them down) and also being a good response to spot removal. I also want to explore Thoughtseize, since sweepers are an issue, because sometimes 2 golgari charms don't show up especially with a lack of card advantage.
I know I posted this in the Control Party thread, but I feel i'll get more progression in tuning the deck if I made the deck it's own thread, plus it's a little different from the UR control lists i'm seeing pop up. Here's the list:
The overall gameplan game 1 is to use permission on mid-late game bombs that your spot removal can't answer permanently, keep the smaller guys under control with your jets and mortars, and refill with draw so your endgame is ready once your opponent has exhausted their resources/ threats. Over the course of my testing sprees i'll get down to 20 or less cards by the time the game is done, and my opponent is in topdeck mode, and i still have 5+ card hand, and i'm plowing away with Aetherling or Niv-Mizzet with plenty of mana at my expense.
I suspect it will be a surprise to you that there are no Young Pyromancer shenanigans in the main( seeing some other lists on the forum ). It's a great card no doubt, and the deck can certainly fuel it's needs, but I feel it's a huge liability in an unknown format especially when there are plenty of aggro decks that are going to coming right off the bat. I do however think it will be a good sideboard strategy for mirrors.
Another card you might be surprised to not see present in the maindeck is Anger of the Gods. It's a great sweeper, and something I personally have been waiting for, for a long time. I don't think it's quite maindeck-able without having more information about the metagame, because it doesn't hit a lot of important creatures that are heavy hitters that can be back breaking if left unanswered such as Loxodon smiter, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Stormbreath Dragon just to name a few, so with all that in mind i saw myself being safer playing Mizzium Mortars over Anger of the Gods maindeck. My other spot removal of choice is Cyclonic rift. This is because, since the deck plays so many counters if something important does get through your counters or you couldn't otherwise answer with a Mizzium mortars or Magma Jet, then you can bounce it and counter it on the way back if your opponent casts it again later. Rift, and Mortars are also late game sweepers( fringe case, but it's there ).
the sideboard is fairly straightforward, and i'm testing Burning Earth/Stormbreath Dragon to see how they fare in the mirror. I think in the end I will need some number of Pithing Needle, but i'm going for simplicity, and with a card like Steam Augury playing very streamlined and using 3-4 ofs you set your self up better to get the cards you want when you need them.
If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask here preferably, but PMs are fine too. Also, feel free to shed light on any weak areas as this is a work in progress, and built with many general answers going into the new metagame.
Although i'm having success with my Esper Walkers list I wanted to share the working of my UR list since a lot of people are on the B or W splash control decks. It's extremely Draw-go, draws a tons of cards, and is a blast (for you ) to play.
EDIT: I'm testing Stormbreathe dragon, but i'm also considering Young Pyromancer instead for control (where it comes in)
Edit: Also Encroaching Wastes is a useless card now that all the innistrad utility lands are rotating, and if you're trying to colour screw your opponent it will just as likely colour screw you since UWR's mana base is quite shakey to begin with
Omenspeaker is not a trash card. It just doesn't fit the control deck everyone else is trying to make.
Encroaching wastes is not as bad as you're making out to be. people are playing underworld connections, and other land enchantments.
In other news, where do we stand on Hundred Handed One right now? If I'm honest I was really excited about playing it when this thread first started, but I haven't seen it in the more recent lists. Is the general consensus that it's not good enough?
Hundred Handed One is a pretty sick wall, and far from a bad card. Testing with it was really good. The only problem i have with it is being a 4 drop it interferes with Jace, and Verdict which you're most likely playing 3-4 of each.
This is a walker variant Esper control deck i'm currently have been testing on cockatrice. I just built the SB this morning after being satisfied with the main. Omenspeaker might not be a Cantrip in a can, but it filters dead draws that you normally get even if you had a draw spell making it a lot better in this more tap-out style control. Negate is my counter of choice since the only things your worried about are...well...spells. Out of the board we go a more proactive mid range and try to race with aggro with Vizkopas and more removal, alongside certain gods. Control we go all in with Walkers, Gods, Seize, and such. midrange is basically the same board plan as aggro. I'm sure there's still plenty of room to improve upon, but it's been a good start without even knowing the meta since it still threatens the board without having to worry as much about the meta-game with 1-1 answers.
I focused on just perfect mana for my intial build. This is most likely wrong going forward(Burning Earth is a thing), but I'd rather start here than try to figure the perfect numbers for everything.
Thank you for what you've done, and in such a short period of time too!
I checked the cards and only 5 images were missing: Hammer of Purphoros, Medomai the Ageless, Ordeal of Heliod, Swan Song, and Thoughtseize.
Thanks again for the patch
2 Prognostic Sphinx
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Doom Blade
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Far // Away
4 Dimir Charm
3 Opportunity
2 Divination
2 Thoughtseize
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Mutavault
6 Swamp
8 Island
3 Ultimate Price
1 Negate
1 Gainsay
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
1 Notion Thief
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Far // Away
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Jace, Memory Adept
they both serve different roles, and that's why i think it's a good enough reason to put both of them in there. Jace, AOT is almost always going to -2 all day everyday and when he's not -2'ng you shouldn't be playing Adept anyway. the basic idea is that Jace, AOT is your Sphinx's Revelation and you want to keep chaining them so that you draw all of your answers since all of them except for Ratchet bomb and Far // Away don't provide card advantage.
where's 4/4? haha I'm pretty sure it's 4/2
I'm shocked to say the least, but in my testing on cockatrice i'm undefeated from about 12 matches(small results to pull from overall, but still holds some merit) with various users playing decks ranging from Mono Red, Naya, GR Devotion, U devotion, Esper, and BW Midrange. At worst I would say i'm at a good starting point.
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Doom Blade
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Far // Away
4 Dimir Charm
3 Opportunity
2 Divination
2 Thoughtseize
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Mutavault
6 Swamp
8 Island
3 Ultimate Price
2 Negate
1 Gainsay
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Opportunity
1 Aetherling
2 Pharika's Cure
1 Far // Away
1 Ratchet Bomb
Jace, Memory Adept: If you remember last season he was a house and this season is no different. I added him as an extra card drawer since i don't have Azorious Charm to cantrip, and i feel light playing only 9 cards that draw. He also finishes the game fairly quickly. I had also initially considered Prognostic Sphinx in this spot.
Dimir Charm: This was just a dumb idea i wanted to try out, but it's been working above my expectation. there are A LOT of <=2 power creatures in this format which makes it Doom Blade 9-12 against most aggro/Devotion matches (the problem area for this Archetype). Against midrange you're using Dimir Charm as a counterspell for their Disruption(Thoughtseize, Rakdos's Return) and Card Advantage (Read the Bones). Against Control you're kind of waiting until you are ahead to really use it to full power for example if their behind on say land drops you can keep it that way.
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Ral Zarek
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Negate
3 Chained to the Rocks
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Temple of Triumph
4 Steam Vents
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Lightning Strike
5 Island
3 Plains
3 Mountain
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
2 Sire of Insanity
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Lightning Strike
3 Rakdos's Return
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Blood Crypt
5 Swamp
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Mutavault
4 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pithing Needle
3 Peak Eruption
4 Anger of the Gods
This is the deck i've been grinding for the TCG 5k in Waco that i hopefully can attend this saturday. Input would be awesome!
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Annihilating Fire
4 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Rakdos guildgate
8 Mountain
5 Swamp
3 Peak Eruption
4 Skullcrack
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Erebos
2 Underworld Connections
2 Dreadbore
4 Spike Jester
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Annihilating Fire
2 Rakdos's Return
12 Mountain
4 Blood Crypt
4 Swamp
1 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Rakdos Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Dreadbore
4 Peak Eruption
4 Tidebinder Mage
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Nightveil Specter
3 Master of Waves
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 AEtherling
2 Golgari Charm
4 Simic Charm
4 Syncopate
4 Rapid Hybridization
6 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Opportunity
4 Magma Jet
4 Dissolve
3 Syncopate
4 Steam Augury
4 Cyclonic Rift
4 Counterflux
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Mountain
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Burning Earth
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Anger of the Gods
The overall gameplan game 1 is to use permission on mid-late game bombs that your spot removal can't answer permanently, keep the smaller guys under control with your jets and mortars, and refill with draw so your endgame is ready once your opponent has exhausted their resources/ threats. Over the course of my testing sprees i'll get down to 20 or less cards by the time the game is done, and my opponent is in topdeck mode, and i still have 5+ card hand, and i'm plowing away with Aetherling or Niv-Mizzet with plenty of mana at my expense.
I suspect it will be a surprise to you that there are no Young Pyromancer shenanigans in the main( seeing some other lists on the forum ). It's a great card no doubt, and the deck can certainly fuel it's needs, but I feel it's a huge liability in an unknown format especially when there are plenty of aggro decks that are going to coming right off the bat. I do however think it will be a good sideboard strategy for mirrors.
Another card you might be surprised to not see present in the maindeck is Anger of the Gods. It's a great sweeper, and something I personally have been waiting for, for a long time. I don't think it's quite maindeck-able without having more information about the metagame, because it doesn't hit a lot of important creatures that are heavy hitters that can be back breaking if left unanswered such as Loxodon smiter, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, and Stormbreath Dragon just to name a few, so with all that in mind i saw myself being safer playing Mizzium Mortars over Anger of the Gods maindeck. My other spot removal of choice is Cyclonic rift. This is because, since the deck plays so many counters if something important does get through your counters or you couldn't otherwise answer with a Mizzium mortars or Magma Jet, then you can bounce it and counter it on the way back if your opponent casts it again later. Rift, and Mortars are also late game sweepers( fringe case, but it's there ).
the sideboard is fairly straightforward, and i'm testing Burning Earth/Stormbreath Dragon to see how they fare in the mirror. I think in the end I will need some number of Pithing Needle, but i'm going for simplicity, and with a card like Steam Augury playing very streamlined and using 3-4 ofs you set your self up better to get the cards you want when you need them.
If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask here preferably, but PMs are fine too. Also, feel free to shed light on any weak areas as this is a work in progress, and built with many general answers going into the new metagame.
EDIT: I'm testing Stormbreathe dragon, but i'm also considering Young Pyromancer instead for control (where it comes in)
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Opportunity
4 Magma Jet
4 Dissolve
3 Syncopate
4 Steam Augury
4 Cyclonic Rift
4 Counterflux
4 Mountain
4 Izzet Guildgate
4 Steam Vents
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Burning Earth
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Anger of the Gods
Omenspeaker is not a trash card. It just doesn't fit the control deck everyone else is trying to make.
Encroaching wastes is not as bad as you're making out to be. people are playing underworld connections, and other land enchantments.
Hundred Handed One is a pretty sick wall, and far from a bad card. Testing with it was really good. The only problem i have with it is being a 4 drop it interferes with Jace, and Verdict which you're most likely playing 3-4 of each.
EDIT: Updated List
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10723161&postcount=322
I focused on just perfect mana for my intial build. This is most likely wrong going forward(Burning Earth is a thing), but I'd rather start here than try to figure the perfect numbers for everything.
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Gideon, Champion of Justice
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
2 Detention Sphere
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Merciless Eviction
4 Azorius Charm
2 Read the Bones
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Silence
4 Watery Grave
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Thoughtseize
1 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Pithing Needle
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Detention Sphere
and Elspeth. Thanks for the patch