Well, it appears new floor rules have been issued by the DCI. I have not had time to compare both rulesets, but here are the changes I have seen so far.
Taking notes moved from 2.9 to 2.11 and new section added about looking up Oracle Text
Players may refer to Oracle text, either electronically or in paper form, at any time. They must do so publicly and
in a format (such as gatherer.wizards.com, other official Wizards of the Coast sources, or printouts of their
sources) which contains no other strategic information. If a player wishes to view Oracle text in private, he or she
must ask a judge.
New Section 2.13 Life totals
2.13 Life Totals
At the start of a match, each player must indicate how he or she will keep track of his or her life total. This
method must be visible to both players during the match. A shared method is acceptable as long as all players in
the match have access to it.
A change in a player’s life total should be accompanied by a verbal announcement by that player of the new life
total.
If a player notices a discrepancy in a recorded or announced life total, he or she is expected to point it out as soon
as the discrepancy is noticed. Failure to do so will be considered a Cheating – Fraud penalt
Electronic Devices moved to 2.12 and the following changes:
Players may use electronic devices to do the following:
• Keep track of life totals or other game-relevant information.
• Take and review notes (as outlined in section 2.11).
• Generate a random number when the game calls for one.
• Briefly answer personal calls not related to the game (with permission of the opponent).
Players may not use electronic devices to access outside strategic sources (websites, forums, etc) or communicate
with others in order to receive outside assistance. Players that spend excessive time on any of the above uses of
electronic devices may be subject to Slow Play penalties.
Players wishing to view information privately on electronic devices during matches must request permission from
a judge.
The Head Judge of an event may further restrict or forbid the use of electronic devices during matches.
Rest of the changes here:
March 20, 2012
Section 2.2: Premier tournament playoff play/draw rule added.
Section 2.9: Appeals to Head Judge moved to this section.
Section 2.11: Taking notes moved to this section and updated.
Section 2.12: Electronic Devices moved to this section and updated.
Section 2.13: Life Totals section added.
Section 3.7: New releases updated.
Section 4.1: Free Information list updated.
Section 6.3: Standard format updated.
Section 6.4: Extended format updated.
Section 6.7: Block Constructed format updated. Banned cards added.
Section 6.8: Modern format updated.
Appendix E: Avacyn Restored Limited product mix added.
I will say no about 150% of the time. Do that crap in between matches, not during a game.
Seriously? Life doesn't stop during a match, ya know. I know my wife would only call me if it was important enough to get an immediate response. I can see saying if the call isn't important, I need them to call back. But something like "My wife just wanted to let me know she took my soon to the hospital, but it's minor. So a quick update, and I'll get the full story later." would be just fine.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I will say no about 150% of the time. Do that crap in between matches, not during a game.
yeah man life doesn't stop for magic. especially when you have a job that requires you to have communication access (like in the army... not smart to not answer a phone) or you have emergencies.
Anyway, I'm curious, how will they mesh together the ban on consulting strategic information through electronics, and the explicit sanctioning of gatherer? Because Gatherer itself has a forum-style comment page as well as a vote stars. The stars and ranking might be irrelevant from a strategy perspective (You can identify your opponent's wood elemental as not a good card without gatherer having to tell it to you), but what about the tactical tips people love to post in the comments?
I wouldn't whatsoever say remove that section, but I'd say that if anyone ever considers it a problem (which honestly I would find unlikely anyway), there could be a 'tournament view' for gatherer that strips out non-essential information.
Seriously? Life doesn't stop during a match, ya know. I know my wife would only call me if it was important enough to get an immediate response. I can see saying if the call isn't important, I need them to call back. But something like "My wife just wanted to let me know she took my soon to the hospital, but it's minor. So a quick update, and I'll get the full story later." would be just fine.
The problem now is, what happens when someone's buddy calls when he is on camera, and says its important, like a family matter? its probably a 1/10,000 likelihood of happening, but clearly some people will explore any avenue to gain an advantage, even twice.
I do like something of the changes for allowing phones (game stats; life/poison, oracle text of cards), but I feel like these changes are going to make it too easy for people to gain information off the opponent.
Taking phone calls is a thorny issue, it gives ample opportunity to cheat, especially in Europe, where the short travel distances allow for a multitude of players of different nationalities together, what stops me from spying on the other player and then calling my friend to tell him in Spanish what hand his opponent has, when I know for a fact that the judges or his rival have no idea of the language. I believe cellphones should be turned off during playtime.
Taking phone calls is a thorny issue, it gives ample opportunity to cheat, especially in Europe, where the short travel distances allow for a multitude of players of different nationalities together, what stops me from spying on the other player and then calling my friend to tell him in Spanish what hand his opponent has, when I know for a fact that the judges or his rival have no idea of the language. I believe cellphones should be turned off during playtime.
If you beleive that has happened in a match the process hasn't changed. Raise your hand a call a judge over, explain the situation to them and let them investigate. If it does turn out that the call was providing Outside assistance then it will treated as such with the appropriate penalties being imposed.
If either player starts acting shady about the call once the judge has gotten involved remind them that lying to a judge during an investigation is just going to make things worse by upgrading the penalty from a game loss/match loss for the outside assistance to a DQ for lying to a judge.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
So I can use an electronic device to access Oracle text, can I also use it to get rulings? In iMTG they're just a tap away and it's really handy sometimes for some complicated cards.
If you beleive that has happened in a match the process hasn't changed. Raise your hand a call a judge over, explain the situation to them and let them investigate. If it does turn out that the call was providing Outside assistance then it will treated as such with the appropriate penalties being imposed.
If either player starts acting shady about the call once the judge has gotten involved remind them that lying to a judge during an investigation is just going to make things worse by upgrading the penalty from a game loss/match loss for the outside assistance to a DQ for lying to a judge.
That is all fine, but still, how can you truly prove what the player was speaking about, if you have no clue of the language your opponent spoke. I think it gives too much chance to cheat.
On topic: I already do the life thing anyway but its nice to know its a rule.
I agree on the life, I still use pen and paper cause I didn't feel using a phone was ok at all. Honestly I thought it should be against the rules but now, shoot. I guess it's cool cause I never forget my phone but it never fails i forget a pen and/or paper and have to scrounge some up.
As for personal calls. Pisses me off every time someone just picks up their phone and starts chatting. If it's important then fine make it fast but no chit chat. It slows them down and in my opinion messes w/ the game. Like other have said too my wife knows where I am. If she is calling then it must be important. I have no problem w/ people checking txt messages.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The king of Yavimaya's waters pays constant attention to his subjects . . . and thrives on their adulation.
Can't remember who it was against, but PV attacked into the guy thinking he was at a lower life total. When he found out that the guy was at a higher life, he called a judge and thought they could go back because he thought that life was a board state and it was his opponent's responsibility to make sure that PV had the correct life total for him. PV ended up appealing to the head judge but he wasn't able to rewind.
That is all fine, but still, how can you truly prove what the player was speaking about, if you have no clue of the language your opponent spoke. I think it gives too much chance to cheat.
Put simply I don't need abosolute proof, a judge insvestigation is not a court of law so doesn't have the same burden of proof/guilt. If I have a reasonable suspicion that the call/text was about the current game that is grounds for applying the penalty for outside interference.
That and as I said in my previous post I would verbally warn the player involved that lying to me is going to result in a worse penatly that simply admitting to the outside assistance if I find some one that contradicts his story.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
So, no magiccards.info? Gatherer may be official but the website has some serious performance issues (especially in a smartphone over 3G at the other side of the planet), and the card searcher could be better.
Now would be a good time for someone to code an app for the Kindle Fire. As far as I can tell there isn't an MTG life counter available for it, might be able to make some money on it.
So, no magiccards.info? Gatherer may be official but the website has some serious performance issues (especially in a smartphone over 3G at the other side of the planet), and the card searcher could be better.
Its the guarentee of having the current official wording that is important. Also with most cases of wanting the current oracle wording you are going to have the card there in front of you so why aren't you just searching on that?
Using gatherer to find the name of a card is going to take a while and it is possible that you could get slammed with a slow play penalty if you can't find it quickly. I would still call a judge over to get the card names just to prevent that possibility and potentially get yourself a time extention if the judge has issues finding it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The clause "HJ may enforce phones differently if he wishes" hopefully makes it so that Phones always will be especially mentioned at start of GPs as disallowed (Its ok in approx first four rounds, but rounds later than that will have spectators roaming (because some people drop after two-three losses)). I cant imagine allowing phones at PTs at all.
If I was the DCI - OoO - I wouldnt write anything about phones at all. What will be the next, that they say its ok to use hearing aids too ? The dci puts words on things that delve into an area that is almost impossible to keep track of, and once they do that the questions will be on them and not on the players (which is how it should be). Because then (most) players will refrain from using phones and those that still do stick out (and thus it becomes easier to spot those who misuse phones (for cheating purposes/stalling).
So, no magiccards.info? Gatherer may be official but the website has some serious performance issues (especially in a smartphone over 3G at the other side of the planet), and the card searcher could be better.
They want you to use their new iOS app to do that kind of search. They also adjusted the rules so now you can use the same app to track life totals. WotC is very smart, sometimes, in a bad way .
Sounds like good, reasonable rules. I hope some of this carries over to FNM players, as I am sick of people not having their own life keeping devices, not announcing life changes, etc.
They want you to use their new iOS app to do that kind of search. They also adjusted the rules so now you can use the same app to track life totals. WotC is very smart, sometimes, in a bad way .
Yes the irony will be when people start to use apps like iMTG to track life and look-up cards etc. Imagine the look on their faces when a Pro uses iMTG or similar instead of their beloved app i cannot wait for the show to start.
At a risk of sounding like a cynic, i suspect we might see someone try to use a family emergency call to code in info on someones hand. They tried reading of glasses this will be no different. That will be another good show
The clause "HJ may enforce phones differently if he wishes" hopefully makes it so that Phones always will be especially mentioned at start of GPs as disallowed (Its ok in approx first four rounds, but rounds later than that will have spectators roaming (because some people drop after two-three losses)). I cant imagine allowing phones at PTs at all.
If I was the DCI - OoO - I wouldnt write anything about phones at all. What will be the next, that they say its ok to use hearing aids too ? The dci puts words on things that delve into an area that is almost impossible to keep track of, and once they do that the questions will be on them and not on the players (which is how it should be). Because then (most) players will refrain from using phones and those that still do stick out (and thus it becomes easier to spot those who misuse phones (for cheating purposes/stalling).
I hear they allow wheelchairs too.
People can always find a way to cheat, but while this game is competitive, it isn't lucrative (in so much as that you can't make a living JUST playing magic). So for Wizards to make a profit they decided to get MORE people to play. Like disabled persons that find Magic a perfect fit (minimal dexterity required).
Also I think the phone thing is better than texts. Sure it could be cheated, but there are many more things important than magic. Making sure that those calls are limited to those important things is paramount though.
Taking notes moved from 2.9 to 2.11 and new section added about looking up Oracle Text
New Section 2.13 Life totals
Electronic Devices moved to 2.12 and the following changes:
Rest of the changes here:
Link to the Tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
I will say no about 150% of the time. Do that crap in between matches, not during a game.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
Seriously? Life doesn't stop during a match, ya know. I know my wife would only call me if it was important enough to get an immediate response. I can see saying if the call isn't important, I need them to call back. But something like "My wife just wanted to let me know she took my soon to the hospital, but it's minor. So a quick update, and I'll get the full story later." would be just fine.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
yeah man life doesn't stop for magic. especially when you have a job that requires you to have communication access (like in the army... not smart to not answer a phone) or you have emergencies.
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
So a potential family emergency is crap? Nice to know, buddy.
On topic: I already do the life thing anyway but its nice to know its a rule.
I wouldn't whatsoever say remove that section, but I'd say that if anyone ever considers it a problem (which honestly I would find unlikely anyway), there could be a 'tournament view' for gatherer that strips out non-essential information.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
The problem now is, what happens when someone's buddy calls when he is on camera, and says its important, like a family matter? its probably a 1/10,000 likelihood of happening, but clearly some people will explore any avenue to gain an advantage, even twice.
I do like something of the changes for allowing phones (game stats; life/poison, oracle text of cards), but I feel like these changes are going to make it too easy for people to gain information off the opponent.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
If you beleive that has happened in a match the process hasn't changed. Raise your hand a call a judge over, explain the situation to them and let them investigate. If it does turn out that the call was providing Outside assistance then it will treated as such with the appropriate penalties being imposed.
If either player starts acting shady about the call once the judge has gotten involved remind them that lying to a judge during an investigation is just going to make things worse by upgrading the penalty from a game loss/match loss for the outside assistance to a DQ for lying to a judge.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
What are you speaking of?
That is all fine, but still, how can you truly prove what the player was speaking about, if you have no clue of the language your opponent spoke. I think it gives too much chance to cheat.
I agree on the life, I still use pen and paper cause I didn't feel using a phone was ok at all. Honestly I thought it should be against the rules but now, shoot. I guess it's cool cause I never forget my phone but it never fails i forget a pen and/or paper and have to scrounge some up.
As for personal calls. Pisses me off every time someone just picks up their phone and starts chatting. If it's important then fine make it fast but no chit chat. It slows them down and in my opinion messes w/ the game. Like other have said too my wife knows where I am. If she is calling then it must be important. I have no problem w/ people checking txt messages.
Can't remember who it was against, but PV attacked into the guy thinking he was at a lower life total. When he found out that the guy was at a higher life, he called a judge and thought they could go back because he thought that life was a board state and it was his opponent's responsibility to make sure that PV had the correct life total for him. PV ended up appealing to the head judge but he wasn't able to rewind.
Now, life total is a game state.
Put simply I don't need abosolute proof, a judge insvestigation is not a court of law so doesn't have the same burden of proof/guilt. If I have a reasonable suspicion that the call/text was about the current game that is grounds for applying the penalty for outside interference.
That and as I said in my previous post I would verbally warn the player involved that lying to me is going to result in a worse penatly that simply admitting to the outside assistance if I find some one that contradicts his story.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Its the guarentee of having the current official wording that is important. Also with most cases of wanting the current oracle wording you are going to have the card there in front of you so why aren't you just searching on that?
Using gatherer to find the name of a card is going to take a while and it is possible that you could get slammed with a slow play penalty if you can't find it quickly. I would still call a judge over to get the card names just to prevent that possibility and potentially get yourself a time extention if the judge has issues finding it.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
If I was the DCI - OoO - I wouldnt write anything about phones at all. What will be the next, that they say its ok to use hearing aids too ? The dci puts words on things that delve into an area that is almost impossible to keep track of, and once they do that the questions will be on them and not on the players (which is how it should be). Because then (most) players will refrain from using phones and those that still do stick out (and thus it becomes easier to spot those who misuse phones (for cheating purposes/stalling).
Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
They want you to use their new iOS app to do that kind of search. They also adjusted the rules so now you can use the same app to track life totals. WotC is very smart, sometimes, in a bad way .
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Yes the irony will be when people start to use apps like iMTG to track life and look-up cards etc. Imagine the look on their faces when a Pro uses iMTG or similar instead of their beloved app i cannot wait for the show to start.
At a risk of sounding like a cynic, i suspect we might see someone try to use a family emergency call to code in info on someones hand. They tried reading of glasses this will be no different. That will be another good show
I hear they allow wheelchairs too.
People can always find a way to cheat, but while this game is competitive, it isn't lucrative (in so much as that you can't make a living JUST playing magic). So for Wizards to make a profit they decided to get MORE people to play. Like disabled persons that find Magic a perfect fit (minimal dexterity required).
Also I think the phone thing is better than texts. Sure it could be cheated, but there are many more things important than magic. Making sure that those calls are limited to those important things is paramount though.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island