Because he IS running strip mine, and you can't read.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
WOW if you would have read my deck list before you posted. He seems to just post things without reading just to fit in I think {no punt intended, but only a clear fact through~out all the threads I read}. I hope a mod sees that it does case sparks.
I will state for the record:,
I didn't run a Gifts Ungiven.
I did run a STRIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
If anyone has anymore questions that aren't a given I would love to share my outcome I had that day, and the reasons I made my deck changes.
I was just questioning if it was worth the slot to run Crucible with only 1x Strip Mine and potentially re-use of fetchlands, discarded lands. CS is a very tight list and every slot counts. But since you had a good day with the build it didn't matter. But don't say that the build can't be improved on.
If you were running Strategic Planning, then it would be (to me at least) easier to justify the crucible in the MD because then you will get a virtual draw 2 discard 1 card from SP if at least one of those cards was a land.
So if it was me, I would consider using something (for example) Rack and Ruin instead of the 1x MD Crucible in your build.
I was just questioning if it was worth the slot to run Crucible with only 1x Strip Mine and potentially re-use of fetchlands, discarded lands. CS is a very tight list and every slot counts. But since you had a good day with the build it didn't matter. But don't say that the build can't be improved on.
If you were running Strategic Planning, then it would be (to me at least) easier to justify the crucible in the MD because then you will get a virtual draw 2 discard 1 card from SP if at least one of those cards was a land.
So if it was me, I would consider using something (for example) Rack and Ruin instead of the 1x MD Crucible in your build.
D3@D
Just checking where I said it couldn't be improved.........I didn't say that, so ok than lol.
If I could get my hands on plannings than that would be a different story now wouldn't it? If I ever run the version with the LoA than I will drop the Strip and use the Rack.
Ok, I take that back, I exagerated, but I do think they are grossly overrrated. They were good at first, thanks to the surprise effect, but I've played with them for a while and I think that the only thing they do is being drained more often than, say, impulse would be. It's not really a good spell. They are supposed to help you abuse more Yawg-will and crucible, both are singletons. And actually, they kinda fail at that. I won't play them anymore, and that's not because I didn't try. One can like them and have success, but I was really underwhelmed.
Just try to remember that price is driven by scarcity and not sole playability.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Ok, I take that back, I exagerated, but I do think they are grossly overrrated. They were good at first, thanks to the surprise effect, but I've played with them for a while and I think that the only thing they do is being drained more often than, say, impulse would be. It's not really a good spell. They are supposed to help you abuse more Yawg-will and crucible, both are singletons. And actually, they kinda fail at that. I won't play them anymore, and that's not because I didn't try. One can like them and have success, but I was really underwhelmed.
Just try to remember that price is driven by scarcity and not sole playability.
I think I could agree with you, but I haven't tried them yet. I mean I don't see any 1st place Plannings decks {I'm sure someone will correct me on that one}, but I do see other C.S. builds winning that spot though.
I do wish I could find some just to try for myself. Either way C.S. is a sweet arch-type, and will forever be my Fav.
Ok, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding: I never meant to say that you said "The build cannot be improved". But was the kind of feeling I got from your response.
Anyway, I just gave you my opinion about your build, how can I know that you can't get SP's or wanted a LOA instead of Strip Mine etc.
I was just saying that there was some room for questions on you card choices, thats all. No need to.. "quote.." response.."lol!".
Now, here is my build for discussion. Feel free to rip it apart and give me some suggestions on improvements that can be made. (I've tried SP but didn't find it worth the investment. But, the fact that it is a blue spell is what draws me to use it again rather than NW.)
Hey I'm not a bad guy, and I'm always open to positive comments from guys that at least read my post first. That's not directed at you bud.
I like your deck here, and have a few comments and Qs.
1. How do you the like playing Triskelavus? I find him slow, but I'm curious to your answer.
2. The Nights Whisper looks like a great choice, and if I'm correct a while back a few members talked about that card. How are your results so far with it?
3. Why run a stripe mine in a build like this one without the CoW? Not to be rude but that one just seems pointless, and I think others share that same opinion.
4. I see the ponder but why use it if this isn't a set up combo deck? I know I thought about it awhile ago, but that was a misdirected thought after reading the comments from some vintage pros on M.de.
Other than those few things to say/ask I think your deck and it looks very competitive.
Just hope everything is cool between us now:) (It is very easy to misunderstand people in forums unfortunately)
To answer you questions:
1. I've always been a fan of Triskelavus. And I haven't really regarded him as slow. IMO he gets in more damage than what Triskelion would have in most situation. Since you can attack with evasion (flying) and sac. Plus, you can use them to get more mana from your Academy and or fuel some sweet tricks with Welder/Slaver etc.
2. Night's Whisper has been quite good IMO, but I wish they were blue sometimes. But other than that, it gives me cards for a reasonable casting cost.
3. I see your point, and I've had questions about it before as well. I used to have LOA in there, but never really liked it because my playstyle is quite aggressive. However, the real reason is because I got a very good offer for my LOA so I sold it and figured that Strip Mine could be just as good or at least ok enough to cash in some $$ for the LOA.
4. Ponder is really just my 4th Night's Whisper. I didn't want to have too many non-blue spells, and I didn't want to run Gifts or any more "utility" spells either. So I figure Ponder could be put there to help me dig or even just for the shuffle. If you want you could put an Impulse there instead or whatever. (Ponder is the first card to go if I need to do some tweaks.)
First thing all you need is 18 U cards for the force to be effective, so you're good there and that's a fact.
I would drop Ponder for a little known card called Memory Jar or run the Gifts, and I have destroyed opp's with this one {Jar}. The advantage is sick with welders {I don't care what others are doing with just 2 Welders.......run 3 and trust me}. I have played too many games now with 2 and wished I could just draw into one...........and not.
Keep the Titan because you're on the right page and D.C. is a sideboard card at best in this build.
Now I would make a choice either rack or Fire/ice so you can get the Cow in there.
And me and you never had a problem bud. We all know who the guy is that doesn't read before he posts {I hope he stops, because sparks with fumes cause massive flames} Mods don't like flames, and sometimes it's hard to hold back when someone leaves themselves so open for comments.
If you have any idea's that might help me I'm open for your comments. I will give the N.W's a try very soon. That uncommon is kinda hard to trade for I have noticed.
I see your points, but for now I will just replace the Ponder with a Memory Jar and skip the Gifts + CoW. I just like my utility cards as it is now. Rack and Ruin + Fire//Ice and Echoing Truth deals with pretty much anything that comes into play at the moment. (This usually is sufficient in game one at least)
I see your points, but for now I will just replace the Ponder with a Memory Jar and skip the Gifts + CoW. I just like my utility cards as it is now. Rack and Ruin + Fire//Ice and Echoing Truth deals with pretty much anything that comes into play at the moment. (This usually is sufficient in game one at least)
[EMAIL="D3@D"]D3@D[/EMAIL]
Sounds good to me, and it's nice to have something different anyways. If me and you were to team up at a tourney with like 2 other C.S. decks we would win for sure if our builds had those small changes from one another to surprise opps.
I like it and just keep tuning it.
I really love this arch-type. I've got 5 T1 decks at the moment (Highlander Storm, Angel Oath, Red Mud Aggro, CS and Cerebral Assassin) And CS is my most played one when I compete.
I believe this deck can be meta-gamed to compete in most situations. Anyone found any new cards from Shards that may see some play-testing in this deck?
I really love this arch-type. I've got 5 T1 decks at the moment (Highlander Storm, Angel Oath, Red Mud Aggro, CS and Cerebral Assassin) And CS is my most played one when I compete.
I believe this deck can be meta-gamed to compete in most situations. Anyone found any new cards from Shards that may see some play-testing in this deck?
Oh yes my friend and they call him the Seeker!
c.Capsule I think can be used with the extra mana and welder tricks too.
The biggest issue I noticed though was if Tazzeret didn't hit play or couldn't last long enough to do his thing after fetching a Time Vault or something then he wasn't really all that worth while. While he is usable I don't he's going to be as meta warping as many people think, to be honest I think Painter is better than him in general power levels.
a) Allows Slaver lock
b) Gets damage through while doing that.
Sometimes I wonder if you even play magic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
The above list uses exactly the same creature base as I am. (I think I posted my build one or two pages back). Anyway, Triskelavus is really good in CS.
I'm pondering too........{Grammer. Grammer. Grammer}
I'm not a fan of the Triskelavus, but I'll never lie to you guys with false posts, and have clearly stated when I have been wrong. A great player, and person with high ethic will always do the right thing.
My main reason for this add is to show that Plannings is a sweet HTF card, but good old faithful is winning the top spots {Top anyone?}.
D3@D you did have that stated bud, and I knew that one. I just love theTriskelion because I'm a old school kinda guy.
I will state for the record:,
I didn't run a Gifts Ungiven.
I did run a STRIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
If anyone has anymore questions that aren't a given I would love to share my outcome I had that day, and the reasons I made my deck changes.
If you were running Strategic Planning, then it would be (to me at least) easier to justify the crucible in the MD because then you will get a virtual draw 2 discard 1 card from SP if at least one of those cards was a land.
So if it was me, I would consider using something (for example) Rack and Ruin instead of the 1x MD Crucible in your build.
D3@D
Just checking where I said it couldn't be improved.........I didn't say that, so ok than lol.
If I could get my hands on plannings than that would be a different story now wouldn't it? If I ever run the version with the LoA than I will drop the Strip and use the Rack.
Ok, I take that back, I exagerated, but I do think they are grossly overrrated. They were good at first, thanks to the surprise effect, but I've played with them for a while and I think that the only thing they do is being drained more often than, say, impulse would be. It's not really a good spell. They are supposed to help you abuse more Yawg-will and crucible, both are singletons. And actually, they kinda fail at that. I won't play them anymore, and that's not because I didn't try. One can like them and have success, but I was really underwhelmed.
Just try to remember that price is driven by scarcity and not sole playability.
I think I could agree with you, but I haven't tried them yet. I mean I don't see any 1st place Plannings decks {I'm sure someone will correct me on that one}, but I do see other C.S. builds winning that spot though.
I do wish I could find some just to try for myself. Either way C.S. is a sweet arch-type, and will forever be my Fav.
Anyway, I just gave you my opinion about your build, how can I know that you can't get SP's or wanted a LOA instead of Strip Mine etc.
I was just saying that there was some room for questions on you card choices, thats all. No need to.. "quote.." response.."lol!".
Now, here is my build for discussion. Feel free to rip it apart and give me some suggestions on improvements that can be made. (I've tried SP but didn't find it worth the investment. But, the fact that it is a blue spell is what draws me to use it again rather than NW.)
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
Artifact-Mana: 9
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mindslaver
1 Tormod's Crypt
Creatures: 6
3 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan (sometimes I use DC here)
1 Triskelavus
Instant: 19
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Fire // Ice
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rack and Ruin
3 Night's Whisper
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
I like your deck here, and have a few comments and Qs.
1. How do you the like playing Triskelavus? I find him slow, but I'm curious to your answer.
2. The Nights Whisper looks like a great choice, and if I'm correct a while back a few members talked about that card. How are your results so far with it?
3. Why run a stripe mine in a build like this one without the CoW? Not to be rude but that one just seems pointless, and I think others share that same opinion.
4. I see the ponder but why use it if this isn't a set up combo deck? I know I thought about it awhile ago, but that was a misdirected thought after reading the comments from some vintage pros on M.de.
Other than those few things to say/ask I think your deck and it looks very competitive.
To answer you questions:
1. I've always been a fan of Triskelavus. And I haven't really regarded him as slow. IMO he gets in more damage than what Triskelion would have in most situation. Since you can attack with evasion (flying) and sac. Plus, you can use them to get more mana from your Academy and or fuel some sweet tricks with Welder/Slaver etc.
2. Night's Whisper has been quite good IMO, but I wish they were blue sometimes. But other than that, it gives me cards for a reasonable casting cost.
3. I see your point, and I've had questions about it before as well. I used to have LOA in there, but never really liked it because my playstyle is quite aggressive. However, the real reason is because I got a very good offer for my LOA so I sold it and figured that Strip Mine could be just as good or at least ok enough to cash in some $$ for the LOA.
4. Ponder is really just my 4th Night's Whisper. I didn't want to have too many non-blue spells, and I didn't want to run Gifts or any more "utility" spells either. So I figure Ponder could be put there to help me dig or even just for the shuffle. If you want you could put an Impulse there instead or whatever. (Ponder is the first card to go if I need to do some tweaks.)
I could perhaps do: (?)
-1 Ponder
-1 Welder
+1 Gifts
+1 CoW
Thanks for the questions.
D3@D
I would drop Ponder for a little known card called Memory Jar or run the Gifts, and I have destroyed opp's with this one {Jar}. The advantage is sick with welders {I don't care what others are doing with just 2 Welders.......run 3 and trust me}. I have played too many games now with 2 and wished I could just draw into one...........and not.
Keep the Titan because you're on the right page and D.C. is a sideboard card at best in this build.
Now I would make a choice either rack or Fire/ice so you can get the Cow in there.
And me and you never had a problem bud. We all know who the guy is that doesn't read before he posts {I hope he stops, because sparks with fumes cause massive flames} Mods don't like flames, and sometimes it's hard to hold back when someone leaves themselves so open for comments.
If you have any idea's that might help me I'm open for your comments. I will give the N.W's a try very soon. That uncommon is kinda hard to trade for I have noticed.
D3@D
Sounds good to me, and it's nice to have something different anyways. If me and you were to team up at a tourney with like 2 other C.S. decks we would win for sure if our builds had those small changes from one another to surprise opps.
I like it and just keep tuning it.
I believe this deck can be meta-gamed to compete in most situations. Anyone found any new cards from Shards that may see some play-testing in this deck?
Oh yes my friend and they call him the Seeker!
c.Capsule I think can be used with the extra mana and welder tricks too.
The Seeker looks def. broken if it hits play.
1 Ponder
1 Cunning Wish
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Mana Drain
1 Tinker
1 Fire/Ice
2 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Time Vault
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Sundering Titan
1 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Crypt
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
2 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
The biggest issue I noticed though was if Tazzeret didn't hit play or couldn't last long enough to do his thing after fetching a Time Vault or something then he wasn't really all that worth while. While he is usable I don't he's going to be as meta warping as many people think, to be honest I think Painter is better than him in general power levels.
150 Participants
8 rounds of Swiss
- followed by T8 Playoffs
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x MOx Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
2x Sensi's Diving Top
1x Sol Ring
2x Mindslaver
1x Tormod's Crypt
Spell
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Echoing truth
1x Fact or Fiction
4x Mana Drain
1x Gifts Ungiven
4x Force of Will
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Mystical Tutor
4x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Fire//Ice
3x Goblin Welder
1x Gorilla Shaman
1x Sundering Titan
1x Triskelavus
Land
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Island
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Underground Sea
4x Volcanic Island
S.B.
1x Duplicant
2x Duress
3x Extripate
3x Pyroclasm
2x Rack and Ruin
1x Razormane Masticore
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Trinisphere
1x Yixlid Jailer
a) Allows Slaver lock
b) Gets damage through while doing that.
Sometimes I wonder if you even play magic.
I'm not a fan of the Triskelavus, but I'll never lie to you guys with false posts, and have clearly stated when I have been wrong. A great player, and person with high ethic will always do the right thing.
My main reason for this add is to show that Plannings is a sweet HTF card, but good old faithful is winning the top spots {Top anyone?}.
D3@D you did have that stated bud, and I knew that one. I just love theTriskelion because I'm a old school kinda guy.