I am currently building a Worldgorger deck for type 1 and was wondering how (or if) the unrestriction of stroke of genius has changed the build at all (for bazaar and non-bazaar builds).
Thanks,
Askindava
Edit: This post will now host a reasonable approximation of the most up to date build as per request.
Dragon Combo is still a good deck, not Tier 1 right now, but it could return. Basically, Dragon doesn't use Stroke to win anymore, it usually gets either Ambassador Laquatus or Sliver Queen into the yard along with the Dragon, uses the Animate Dead/Necromancy/Dance of the Dead combo to generate infinite mana, then chooses either of the above creatures to reanimate and then funnels the mana into them to either deck your opponent or win with massive Sliver beatz.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
{Ivory Tower}
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
I thought that ambassador would be the right way to go, but I still dont know about sliver queen, doen't using her over ambassador just give your opponent another turn to respond?
Yes, Ambassador is better than the Queen, unless your opponent is playing Gaea's Blessing. Which means you should play the Ambassador. Feel free to include Stroke if you want, but it requires a blue, which you might not always have free, whereas the others need only colorless to let you win.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
{Ivory Tower}
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
That's a really interesting idea, and one I hadn't thought of if you don't want to use Laquatus. I, however, think Blessing is so rare that the added speed of the mill-kill makes it better than using Caller. However, if you wanted to you could use it to get around Root Maze.
Really good idea, fireballchannel.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
{Ivory Tower}
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
Stroke of Genius has not affected Dragon in any way at all. Adding stoke just makes the combo unnecessarily complex and risky. Why bother stroking your opponent when Laquatas does the same thing off the Animate Dead for your Dragon? Efficiency = good.
Posted by Fels
Might use it in the non-bazaar builds. Just a tip.
A non Bazaar build?Bazaars in Dragons is like a Turkey to Thanksgiving.They gotta go together cuz then ur only weapons is Buried Alive or Intuition. which slows the deck down way to much and makes it more of a target.
Posted by Magemoth
Why bother stroking your opponent when Laquatas does the same thing off the Animate Dead for your Dragon?
What opponent doesn't like be to stroked?I would laugh so hard if a opponent said,"Why didn't you stroke me??."
A non Bazaar build?Bazaars in Dragons is like a Turkey to Thanksgiving.They gotta go together cuz then ur only weapons is Buried Alive or Intuition. which slows the deck down way to much and makes it more of a target.
The first post at the end said (bazaar and non-bazaar builds) The non bazaar used stuff around bazaar and did not inlude it. It was a completly different build and ran off stroke of genuise and such. I actually did a little bit of research for this. So try not to make me sound like im a complete m0ran god! :). Im not sure why it wasn't inluded in the non-bazaar build either. I did happen to run into a few while researching this deck to..soo. Yea..that's why I said that.
I think that you might want to run stroke in some situations ( for example, your meta=dragon and EVERYONE runs 4x Tormod's Crypt SB) so that you could, in response to a Tormod's Crypt, Necromancy a WGD and go infinite. the Laquatus would be RFG, but Stoke would stay in hand. This, however, is so rare that it is a better idea to run Laquatus. Nt worrying about countermagic is Tech.
I think that you might want to run stroke in some situations ( for example, your meta=dragon and EVERYONE runs 4x Tormod's Crypt SB) so that you could, in response to a Tormod's Crypt, Necromancy a WGD and go infinite. the Laquatus would be RFG, but Stoke would stay in hand. This, however, is so rare that it is a better idea to run Laquatus. Nt worrying about countermagic is Tech.
I definatly agree. There is no point anymore to run stroke, after they restricted it everyone one found better ways to build that deck. Then laquatus came about. You really do not need stroke. Really even if it is a dragon meta=wich is a sorry meta imo, you still wont need it. It's dead if you have laquatus.
Stroke is better than a lot of people give it credit for being... I'll leave it at that.
As for Caller vs. Queen, Queen beats for 7 when things go wrong. Caller serves for 2. Against Root Maze you draw the game and go again... or just Force the damn thing.
Yea, root maze is horrible. That's why I pack naturalize on sideboard. Screw drawing, I wanna win:). Or you can just continue your infinite loop of animate dead, gorger, with nothing to do, till they get bored and quit. It's not your fault your stuck in a loop.
I do agree with sliver queen over others though. If there is a root maze out. You can still animate the sliver queen and kill them that way. Atleast there is a hope. I chose that over the ambassador, that's just me though.
With the ambassador, you pretty much lose instantly as soon as root maze hits, if you have no FoW. Witch sliver queen you can reanimate it and play with it AND it's good combo with gorger.
Yea, root maze is horrible. That's why I pack naturalize on sideboard. Screw drawing, I wanna win:). Or you can just continue your infinite loop of animate dead, gorger, with nothing to do, till they get bored and quit. It's not your fault your stuck in a loop.
There are very specific circumstances that have to exist in the game for this to happen.
An unbounded loop can only cause the game to end in a draw if it consists solely of mandatory actions. The only way animating Worldgorger is a "mandatory action" is if it is the only creature in any graveyard.
If there is any other creature in either player's graveyard, then the loop consists of optional actions controlled by one player. (It's not a mandatory action because the player has to actively make a choice as to which creature is targeted by the enchantment's CIP ability.) After demonstrating that the loop is indeed unbounded, you name a number of times that the loop happens, and it is assumed the loop is performed that number of times. You CANNOT simply just sit there and perform the actions until time expires. If you do, your opponent can (rightly) call the judge on you for stalling.
There are "tricks" in which you can turn the game into a draw even with other creatures in graveyards. Most of these involve casting a Necromancy in the middle of the loop. You enchant a second creature, then the enchantment and the creature get RFG by the Worldgorger, then they both back into play and you can choose a new target for the Necromancy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
Ok..I know. My hole point was just to point out why sliver queen should be used. I was jus tsort of making a little joke. Wasn't going that much into it. If I confused anybody or whatever, then im glad you cleared that up.
May I ask how Witness is better then Sliver Queen or Caller of the Claw?
It lets you win at instant speed. You don't have to say go and let them possibly topdeck an answer. It also gets around Blessing, and in a pinch, you can actually cast it and have it do something useful. How is it not better than either of those?
The problem with getting another animate spell back is that you have to cast it. If you generated a lot of mana in the first loop that you haven't spent, and your opponent can counter whichever animate spell you retrieved, you could be stuck with enough mana to burn you to death.
I know it may not be particularly likely that they'd do this instead of countering your first animate anyway, but I still think it's opening up an unnecessary window of opportunity to get something countered.
If you don't like having to wait another turn to win with Sliver Queen, what about something like Kumano, Master Yamabushi? The mana base will need changing but Kumano has the added use of dealing with pesky things like Welders if you play it outside of the combo.
I finally figured it out but you have to have a Bazaar on the Field.You Animate the Dragon,Cycle through ur deck,Animate the Witness,Bring an Animate Spell back to ur hand,Pay with ur open land,Animate the Dragon,Bring everything to ur hand,Play Cunning Wish for Laquatus,Dump Laquatus with Bazaar,Animate the Laquatus so the loop is finished,Mill away til the Blessings then hit the Blessings with one of ur spells since u have all of the them in ur hand.You end up discarding the Rest at Discard step but its a Clean Kill as long as you have spells to get rid of Blessing.
Thanks,
Askindava
Edit: This post will now host a reasonable approximation of the most up to date build as per request.
4 Intuition
3 Read the Runes
1 Cunning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Entomb
Sorceries (8):
3 Deep Analysis
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Necromancy
2 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
Creatures (5):
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
Artifacts (9):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Island
1 Swamp
Lands (14):
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Forbidden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
Dragon Combo is still a good deck, not Tier 1 right now, but it could return. Basically, Dragon doesn't use Stroke to win anymore, it usually gets either Ambassador Laquatus or Sliver Queen into the yard along with the Dragon, uses the Animate Dead/Necromancy/Dance of the Dead combo to generate infinite mana, then chooses either of the above creatures to reanimate and then funnels the mana into them to either deck your opponent or win with massive Sliver beatz.
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
Edit:Occam`sRazor beat me to it
T1 Spoils Dragon Deck
T1 Illusions Donate Deck
Bonus Most pt.2
I wanted you for nothing more then hating you for what you were!
By Taking Back Sunday
Really good idea, fireballchannel.
God is dead, and we have killed him - Nietzsche
I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul - Henley
It is wasteful to do with more, what can be done with less - William of Occam
D'oh - Homer Simpson
Legacy - Full English Breakfast
Vintage - Dragon, Cerebral Assasin, Oath
A non Bazaar build?Bazaars in Dragons is like a Turkey to Thanksgiving.They gotta go together cuz then ur only weapons is Buried Alive or Intuition. which slows the deck down way to much and makes it more of a target.
What opponent doesn't like be to stroked?I would laugh so hard if a opponent said,"Why didn't you stroke me??."
T1 Spoils Dragon Deck
T1 Illusions Donate Deck
Bonus Most pt.2
I wanted you for nothing more then hating you for what you were!
By Taking Back Sunday
The first post at the end said (bazaar and non-bazaar builds) The non bazaar used stuff around bazaar and did not inlude it. It was a completly different build and ran off stroke of genuise and such. I actually did a little bit of research for this. So try not to make me sound like im a complete m0ran god! :). Im not sure why it wasn't inluded in the non-bazaar build either. I did happen to run into a few while researching this deck to..soo. Yea..that's why I said that.
Legacy - Full English Breakfast
Vintage - Dragon, Cerebral Assasin, Oath
I definatly agree. There is no point anymore to run stroke, after they restricted it everyone one found better ways to build that deck. Then laquatus came about. You really do not need stroke. Really even if it is a dragon meta=wich is a sorry meta imo, you still wont need it. It's dead if you have laquatus.
Legacy - Full English Breakfast
Vintage - Dragon, Cerebral Assasin, Oath
As for Caller vs. Queen, Queen beats for 7 when things go wrong. Caller serves for 2. Against Root Maze you draw the game and go again... or just Force the damn thing.
-John
I do agree with sliver queen over others though. If there is a root maze out. You can still animate the sliver queen and kill them that way. Atleast there is a hope. I chose that over the ambassador, that's just me though.
With the ambassador, you pretty much lose instantly as soon as root maze hits, if you have no FoW. Witch sliver queen you can reanimate it and play with it AND it's good combo with gorger.
Legacy - Full English Breakfast
Vintage - Dragon, Cerebral Assasin, Oath
There are very specific circumstances that have to exist in the game for this to happen.
An unbounded loop can only cause the game to end in a draw if it consists solely of mandatory actions. The only way animating Worldgorger is a "mandatory action" is if it is the only creature in any graveyard.
If there is any other creature in either player's graveyard, then the loop consists of optional actions controlled by one player. (It's not a mandatory action because the player has to actively make a choice as to which creature is targeted by the enchantment's CIP ability.) After demonstrating that the loop is indeed unbounded, you name a number of times that the loop happens, and it is assumed the loop is performed that number of times. You CANNOT simply just sit there and perform the actions until time expires. If you do, your opponent can (rightly) call the judge on you for stalling.
There are "tricks" in which you can turn the game into a draw even with other creatures in graveyards. Most of these involve casting a Necromancy in the middle of the loop. You enchant a second creature, then the enchantment and the creature get RFG by the Worldgorger, then they both back into play and you can choose a new target for the Necromancy.
Legacy - Full English Breakfast
Vintage - Dragon, Cerebral Assasin, Oath
If you're trying to play around Blessings, I'd say Eternal Witness is a better choice for a kill condition than Sliver Queen.
T1 Spoils Dragon Deck
T1 Illusions Donate Deck
Bonus Most pt.2
I wanted you for nothing more then hating you for what you were!
By Taking Back Sunday
It lets you win at instant speed. You don't have to say go and let them possibly topdeck an answer. It also gets around Blessing, and in a pinch, you can actually cast it and have it do something useful. How is it not better than either of those?
I'm assuming you bazaar your library into your graveyard, then regrowth a kill card, like consume spirit. But I don't play the deck, I don't know.
Nah, you regrowth another animate, restart the loop and have infinite regrowths to Ancestral out your opponent or just Time Walk forever.
I know it may not be particularly likely that they'd do this instead of countering your first animate anyway, but I still think it's opening up an unnecessary window of opportunity to get something countered.
If you don't like having to wait another turn to win with Sliver Queen, what about something like Kumano, Master Yamabushi? The mana base will need changing but Kumano has the added use of dealing with pesky things like Welders if you play it outside of the combo.
T1 Spoils Dragon Deck
T1 Illusions Donate Deck
Bonus Most pt.2
I wanted you for nothing more then hating you for what you were!
By Taking Back Sunday