Grim Long
A Vintage deck, by Adam Barnello
12th place at a StarCityGames Power 9 Tournament tournament in Rochester, New York, United States on 2006-06-18Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Grimlong is a deck devoted to dropping bomb after bomb after bomb from your hand, overwhelming an opponent with dangerous spells until you break through their wall of counters or disruption. It's 5 color manabase allows it to utilize the most broken spells in each color, seen through its use of Burning Wish, Xantid Swarm, and Balance. It's post sideboard control matchup improves with the addition of Force of Will and additional Xantid Swarms, and the bounce spells attempt to stem the onslaught of lock pieces and artifact-based disruption from Stax and Fish.
Does anyone have the latest grimlong list?
And does anyone think the deck is still viable or not?
I think it could be with some changes *cough*empty the warrens*cough* in the board and possibly maindeck. especially in the gift heavy meta.
Does anyone have the latest grimlong list?
And does anyone think the deck is still viable or not?
I think it could be with some changes *cough*empty the warrens*cough* in the board and possibly maindeck. especially in the gift heavy meta.
Besides, I have always loved long varients....
What do you think?
Sure, I think the deck is viable. However, I don't think the deck would be any better with EtW main deck or even sideboard. I don't see how that would help you in the Gifts matchup.
However, I would check out the new Ritual Gifts decks. I feel this deck is a new incarnation of Long. From testing, I feel that the deck is better than Long for a few reasons:
1. Setting up the win is much easier.
2. Protecting the win is much easier.
3. Draw-7's are not necessary.
I won't clog up this thread, but if you want I can PM you more info.
for the people that play this deck a lot, what match-ups does grim long have trouble with? What cards in these decks make the match-ups difficult and/or what is it about these decks that make it difficult?
for the people that play this deck a lot, what match-ups does grim long have trouble with? What cards in these decks make the match-ups difficult and/or what is it about these decks that make it difficult?
A generally problem match up is Meandeck Gifts. However, if your a skill pilot who has practiced, you can beat anything really.
Hurkyl's Recall, IIRC, worked really well for me MD. It really helps against running out of gas as you go for the combo. A Turn 2 kill was the best I managed with it MD, Turn 3 otherwise.
'93-'94: Black Lotus, the moxen, and Mishra's Workshop introduced. Artifacts are broken.
'98-'99: Tolarian Academy, Tinker, Memory Jar, and Metalworker introduced. Artifacts still extremely broken.
'03-'04: Wizards decides to base a full block around broken artifacts.
'08-'09: You do the math. There will be broken artifacts in Rock Block. You will see.
ALL YOU NAIVE FOOLS SHALL SEE!!!
-Jed
Edge of Autumn? I have a hard time figuring that one out. Since you have no basics you are playing it for the cycling ability. Wouldn't Chromatic Sphere make more sense in a 4c build like yours? Being afraid of Null Rod, if this is the case, hardly makes up for the times you will be able to use it to your advantage.
I everything else looks alright, I mean, it's all pretty standard for Grim Long but you are cutting a lot of restricted bombs for OK effects.
I fail to see Mind's Desire. I personally don't see a good enough reason to cut it... It can turn a measly storm count of 4 into a win, even though you have to be careful when you aren't holding much else. And Time Walk? I have found some people to underestimate this card immensely (on par with LED), there are times where Walking just to get the extra draw and land drop will win you the game. Not counting all the baiting you can do to get one of your bombs countered (Wheel, Tinker, Will, Ancestral) and Walking right after.
No Necropotence and No Yawgmoth's Bargain need a good explanation as well... Swamp -> Ritual -> Necro is one of the strongest openings in Vintage, bar none.
Are any of these omissions intentional, experimental, or overlooked?
I have read the thread on the gifts deck, and since the gifts ungiven restriction announcement, posts there are trying to work gush into the deck.
I guess this has some advantages (free, and adding to the storm count, plus maybe something else I am missing???) but why not build the grim long.dec at the top of this thread, and run 1 darksteel colossus?
I may be missing someting about the differences in these two decks, and would appreciate some clarification.
thanks.
Grim Long tends to run Duress to get through an opponents counterwall while Pitch Long runs Force of Will/Misdirection. The two decks are very similar and probably don't need different names. Chang Stax is 5 Color stax, while Uba Stax is mono red and abuses the Uba Mask+Bazaar draw engine. Meandeck is the name of a Vintage team which puts their name in front of the decks they play.
I have read the thread on the gifts deck, and since the gifts ungiven restriction announcement, posts there are trying to work gush into the deck.
I guess this has some advantages (free, and adding to the storm count, plus maybe something else I am missing???) but why not build the grim long.dec at the top of this thread, and run 1 darksteel colossus?
I may be missing someting about the differences in these two decks, and would appreciate some clarification.
thanks.
The one DSC is for Tinder-ing purposes. Its very bomby to get turn 1-2 DSC.
For sure. I get that you want to it out fast, but what I am really asking is this:
Is the only appreciable difference among pitch/gifts/grim the choice of spell (tendrils for damage or brainfreeze for decking) to storm?
I suppose that Empty the Warrens is the creature version of the storm archetype.
The other big T1 decks have way different (or divergent may be a better word) strategies- either lock or meddle or whatever goblins to be effective.
For sure. I get that you want to it out fast, but what I am really asking is this:
Is the only appreciable difference among pitch/gifts/grim the choice of spell (tendrils for damage or brainfreeze for decking) to storm?
I suppose that Empty the Warrens is the creature version of the storm archetype.
The other big T1 decks have way different (or divergent may be a better word) strategies- either lock or meddle or whatever goblins to be effective.
Both Grim Long and Pitch Long run Tendrils as their win condition, Brain Freeze is a poor option because you need much more storm to win. The difference between the decks is Pitch Long runs Force of Will/Misdirection to protect its bombs and Grim Long runs Duress. This results in some minor differences in how the decks play, outside of that they are virtually identical.
Tinker into DSC is a poor choice because combo doesn't want to be waiting 3 turns to win, it wants to win right now by Tinkering up Memory Jar. Memory Jar is also nice because it is pretty easy to hardcast.
Unfortunately, the deck does not generate enough storm to make the brain freeze kill viable. To my understanding, the only deck that can easily kill with the freeze is bomberman. Tendrils of victory is probably the best method to my knowledge (or empty the warrens against stax).
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1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
Creatures
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Xantid Swarm
Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire
1 Regrowth
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel Of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Lands
4 City Of Brass
1 Forbidden Orchard
3 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea
Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Force Of Will
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Balance
1 Tendrils Of Agony
A Vintage deck, by Adam Barnello
12th place at a StarCityGames Power 9 Tournament tournament in Rochester, New York, United States on 2006-06-18Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
1 Black Lotus (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lion's Eye Diamond (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lotus Petal (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Crypt (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Vault (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Memory Jar (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Emerald (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Jet (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Pearl (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Ruby (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Sapphire (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Sol Ring (Restricted in Vintage)
Creatures
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Xantid Swarm
Enchantments
1 Necropotence (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (Restricted in Vintage)
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mystical Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Vampiric Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Burning Wish (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Demonic Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Duress
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Regrowth (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Timetwister (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tinker (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Wheel Of Fortune (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Windfall (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Will (Restricted in Vintage)
Lands
4 City Of Brass
2 Forbidden Orchard
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea
Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy (Restricted in Vintage)
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Xantid Swarm
4 Force Of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Balance (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk (Restricted in Vintage)
Grimlong is a deck devoted to dropping bomb after bomb after bomb from your hand, overwhelming an opponent with dangerous spells until you break through their wall of counters or disruption. It's 5 color manabase allows it to utilize the most broken spells in each color, seen through its use of Burning Wish, Xantid Swarm, and Balance. It's post sideboard control matchup improves with the addition of Force of Will and additional Xantid Swarms, and the bounce spells attempt to stem the onslaught of lock pieces and artifact-based disruption from Stax and Fish.
RON PAUL
R[ƎVO˩]UTION
The Philosophy of Liberty
And does anyone think the deck is still viable or not?
I think it could be with some changes *cough*empty the warrens*cough* in the board and possibly maindeck. especially in the gift heavy meta.
Besides, I have always loved long varients....
What do you think?
Sure, I think the deck is viable. However, I don't think the deck would be any better with EtW main deck or even sideboard. I don't see how that would help you in the Gifts matchup.
However, I would check out the new Ritual Gifts decks. I feel this deck is a new incarnation of Long. From testing, I feel that the deck is better than Long for a few reasons:
1. Setting up the win is much easier.
2. Protecting the win is much easier.
3. Draw-7's are not necessary.
I won't clog up this thread, but if you want I can PM you more info.
-DShell
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
A generally problem match up is Meandeck Gifts. However, if your a skill pilot who has practiced, you can beat anything really.
Battle Royale Mafia
(Come see who won!)
1 Black Lotus (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lion's Eye Diamond (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Lotus Petal (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Crypt (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mana Vault (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Memory Jar (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Emerald (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Jet (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Pearl (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Ruby (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Mox Sapphire (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Sol Ring (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Street Wraith
1 Ancestral Recall (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Demonic Tutor (Restricted in Vintage)
4 Duress
2 Edge of Autumn
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Timetwister (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Tinker (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Wheel Of Fortune (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Windfall (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Yawgmoth's Will (Restricted in Vintage)
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
Seems good, so far.
'98-'99: Tolarian Academy, Tinker, Memory Jar, and Metalworker introduced. Artifacts still extremely broken.
'03-'04: Wizards decides to base a full block around broken artifacts.
'08-'09: You do the math. There will be broken artifacts in Rock Block. You will see.
ALL YOU NAIVE FOOLS SHALL SEE!!!
-Jed
Edge of Autumn? I have a hard time figuring that one out. Since you have no basics you are playing it for the cycling ability. Wouldn't Chromatic Sphere make more sense in a 4c build like yours? Being afraid of Null Rod, if this is the case, hardly makes up for the times you will be able to use it to your advantage.
I everything else looks alright, I mean, it's all pretty standard for Grim Long but you are cutting a lot of restricted bombs for OK effects.
I fail to see Mind's Desire. I personally don't see a good enough reason to cut it... It can turn a measly storm count of 4 into a win, even though you have to be careful when you aren't holding much else. And Time Walk? I have found some people to underestimate this card immensely (on par with LED), there are times where Walking just to get the extra draw and land drop will win you the game. Not counting all the baiting you can do to get one of your bombs countered (Wheel, Tinker, Will, Ancestral) and Walking right after.
No Necropotence and No Yawgmoth's Bargain need a good explanation as well... Swamp -> Ritual -> Necro is one of the strongest openings in Vintage, bar none.
Are any of these omissions intentional, experimental, or overlooked?
Modern
Mono-U Tron
Zombie Loam
Infect
Legacy
Delver
TES
I guess this has some advantages (free, and adding to the storm count, plus maybe something else I am missing???) but why not build the grim long.dec at the top of this thread, and run 1 darksteel colossus?
I may be missing someting about the differences in these two decks, and would appreciate some clarification.
thanks.
T1RAnkh-Sligh
same question for chang stax and uba stax?
What exactly is meant by meandeck?
These decks seem to be very similer, what sets them apart?
The one DSC is for Tinder-ing purposes. Its very bomby to get turn 1-2 DSC.
Is the only appreciable difference among pitch/gifts/grim the choice of spell (tendrils for damage or brainfreeze for decking) to storm?
I suppose that Empty the Warrens is the creature version of the storm archetype.
The other big T1 decks have way different (or divergent may be a better word) strategies- either lock or meddle or whatever goblins to be effective.
T1RAnkh-Sligh
Both Grim Long and Pitch Long run Tendrils as their win condition, Brain Freeze is a poor option because you need much more storm to win. The difference between the decks is Pitch Long runs Force of Will/Misdirection to protect its bombs and Grim Long runs Duress. This results in some minor differences in how the decks play, outside of that they are virtually identical.
Tinker into DSC is a poor choice because combo doesn't want to be waiting 3 turns to win, it wants to win right now by Tinkering up Memory Jar. Memory Jar is also nice because it is pretty easy to hardcast.
Check out the H/W List playa:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=80563
Member of the Syndicate
Syndicate Members:5
My AIM is Satriani744 (shocker, right?;))
It's a great way to get in touch with me for trades, or just chattin'. Just don't stalk me please.
I've only played with the deck on apprentice and I haven't tested the idea yet. Maybe someone who runs the thing could try it out though.
.Because replicate doesn't actually play the spells, it only puts spells on the stack, so it doesn't increase the storm count.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor