MTG Salvation

Grimlong is a deck devoted to dropping bomb after bomb after bomb from your hand, overwhelming an opponent with dangerous spells until you break through their wall of counters or disruption. It's 5 color manabase allows it to utilize the most broken spells in each color, seen through its use of Burning Wish, Xantid Swarm, and Balance. It's post sideboard control matchup improves with the addition of Force of Will and additional Xantid Swarms, and the bounce spells attempt to stem the onslaught of lock pieces and artifact-based disruption from Stax and Fish.

They should restrict GrimLong decks to one per event, just for irony's sake.

Does anyone have the latest grimlong list?
And does anyone think the deck is still viable or not?
I think it could be with some changes *cough*empty the warrens*cough* in the board and possibly maindeck. especially in the gift heavy meta.

Besides, I have always loved long varients....

What do you think?

Quote from magicplaya10

Does anyone have the latest grimlong list?
And does anyone think the deck is still viable or not?
I think it could be with some changes *cough*empty the warrens*cough* in the board and possibly maindeck. especially in the gift heavy meta.

Besides, I have always loved long varients....

What do you think?

Sure, I think the deck is viable. However, I don't think the deck would be any better with EtW main deck or even sideboard. I don't see how that would help you in the Gifts matchup.

However, I would check out the new Ritual Gifts decks. I feel this deck is a new incarnation of Long. From testing, I feel that the deck is better than Long for a few reasons:
1. Setting up the win is much easier.
2. Protecting the win is much easier.
3. Draw-7's are not necessary.

I won't clog up this thread, but if you want I can PM you more info.

-DShell

for the people that play this deck a lot, what match-ups does grim long have trouble with? What cards in these decks make the match-ups difficult and/or what is it about these decks that make it difficult?

Quote from urweak

for the people that play this deck a lot, what match-ups does grim long have trouble with? What cards in these decks make the match-ups difficult and/or what is it about these decks that make it difficult?

A generally problem match up is Meandeck Gifts. However, if your a skill pilot who has practiced, you can beat anything really.

Hurkyl's Recall, IIRC, worked really well for me MD. It really helps against running out of gas as you go for the combo. A Turn 2 kill was the best I managed with it MD, Turn 3 otherwise.

I've been testing this variation of it:



Seems good, so far.

@Jedoverlord:

Edge of Autumn? I have a hard time figuring that one out. Since you have no basics you are playing it for the cycling ability. Wouldn't Chromatic Sphere make more sense in a 4c build like yours? Being afraid of Null Rod, if this is the case, hardly makes up for the times you will be able to use it to your advantage.

I everything else looks alright, I mean, it's all pretty standard for Grim Long but you are cutting a lot of restricted bombs for OK effects.

I fail to see Mind's Desire. I personally don't see a good enough reason to cut it... It can turn a measly storm count of 4 into a win, even though you have to be careful when you aren't holding much else. And Time Walk? I have found some people to underestimate this card immensely (on par with LED), there are times where Walking just to get the extra draw and land drop will win you the game. Not counting all the baiting you can do to get one of your bombs countered (Wheel, Tinker, Will, Ancestral) and Walking right after.

No Necropotence and No Yawgmoth's Bargain need a good explanation as well... Swamp -> Ritual -> Necro is one of the strongest openings in Vintage, bar none.

Are any of these omissions intentional, experimental, or overlooked?

I have read the thread on the gifts deck, and since the gifts ungiven restriction announcement, posts there are trying to work gush into the deck.
I guess this has some advantages (free, and adding to the storm count, plus maybe something else I am missing???) but why not build the grim long.dec at the top of this thread, and run 1 darksteel colossus?

I may be missing someting about the differences in these two decks, and would appreciate some clarification.
thanks.

What is the differance between pitch long and grim long?
same question for chang stax and uba stax?
What exactly is meant by meandeck?

These decks seem to be very similer, what sets them apart?

Grim Long tends to run Duress to get through an opponents counterwall while Pitch Long runs Force of Will/Misdirection. The two decks are very similar and probably don't need different names. Chang Stax is 5 Color stax, while Uba Stax is mono red and abuses the Uba Mask+Bazaar draw engine. Meandeck is the name of a Vintage team which puts their name in front of the decks they play.

Quote from NapHowie

I have read the thread on the gifts deck, and since the gifts ungiven restriction announcement, posts there are trying to work gush into the deck.
I guess this has some advantages (free, and adding to the storm count, plus maybe something else I am missing???) but why not build the grim long.dec at the top of this thread, and run 1 darksteel colossus?

I may be missing someting about the differences in these two decks, and would appreciate some clarification.
thanks.

The one DSC is for Tinder-ing purposes. Its very bomby to get turn 1-2 DSC.

For sure. I get that you want to it out fast, but what I am really asking is this:
Is the only appreciable difference among pitch/gifts/grim the choice of spell (tendrils for damage or brainfreeze for decking) to storm?
I suppose that Empty the Warrens is the creature version of the storm archetype.

The other big T1 decks have way different (or divergent may be a better word) strategies- either lock or meddle or whatever goblins to be effective.

Quote from NapHowie

For sure. I get that you want to it out fast, but what I am really asking is this:
Is the only appreciable difference among pitch/gifts/grim the choice of spell (tendrils for damage or brainfreeze for decking) to storm?
I suppose that Empty the Warrens is the creature version of the storm archetype.

The other big T1 decks have way different (or divergent may be a better word) strategies- either lock or meddle or whatever goblins to be effective.

Both Grim Long and Pitch Long run Tendrils as their win condition, Brain Freeze is a poor option because you need much more storm to win. The difference between the decks is Pitch Long runs Force of Will/Misdirection to protect its bombs and Grim Long runs Duress. This results in some minor differences in how the decks play, outside of that they are virtually identical.

Tinker into DSC is a poor choice because combo doesn't want to be waiting 3 turns to win, it wants to win right now by Tinkering up Memory Jar. Memory Jar is also nice because it is pretty easy to hardcast.

Why doesn't long use gigadrowse as a nice easy storm count increaser?

I've only played with the deck on apprentice and I haven't tested the idea yet. Maybe someone who runs the thing could try it out though.

Quote from JoshuaD

Why doesn't long use gigadrowse as a nice easy storm count increaser?

I've only played with the deck on apprentice and I haven't tested the idea yet. Maybe someone who runs the thing could try it out though.

.Because replicate doesn't actually play the spells, it only puts spells on the stack, so it doesn't increase the storm count.