Arguably the Strongest deck in the Current Vintage environment, Meandeck gifts is a control/combo hybrid, capable of fufilling the control role until the point of breaking out into a combination of spells resulting in either Tinkering for Darksteel Colossus and Time Walking to victory, or Recouping Yawgmoth's Will into a Tendrils of Agony kill. This is achieved on the strong shoulders of Gifts Ungiven and Mana Drain. It is said that Gifts is the most difficult Vintage deck to play, containing an effective infinite decision tree, and rewarding tight play more than any other deck. This is not a Vintage beginner's deck.
The rest of the slots are free for metagame slots. One could fill these with extra draw (Gifts, Scroll, TfK, FoF, Srying), extra pitch counters (I definitly like having 2 Mis-Ds), extra bounce, and a huge variety of metagame hate.
Furthermore, the shown list is only one of the variations of Gifts. Gifts X and Brassman Gifts are both very viable solutions, and the lists played by the Pease brothers display this (running TfKs and maindeck hate). Repeal has also seen success within gifts, fulling a much faster storm and serving as relativly strong bounce.
Just as this is the most difficult to play, it is also the most difficult to build properlly, demanding an intense comprehension of the metagame to make the proper calls.
BAM is my own term. I was sick and tired of writing out SoLoMoxenCryptVaultPetal... Etc.
BAM = Broken Artifact Mana
This is also really cool, cause when your opponant plays null rod, they become Dead Artifact MAna, DAM.
BAM will usually progress in the following order: Lotus, On-Color Moxen, Off-Color Moxen, Crypt, Ring, Vault, Petal. If it progresses differntly, I write them out, but otherwise, I will use BAM. Usually, there are 9 BAM, and order is rarelly broken, usually around crypt and ring if it is, or a transplaced Petal.
I always use BAM. I figure, eventually it will catch on, and I might as well keep using it so that it does catch on.
Unfortunately, that breaks the "export deck to Apprentice/MODO/OCTGN" feature. So for partial decklists it's OK... but for full decklists please write out each card individually.
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I'm curious, as I'm building this deck ( completely foiled! )...
Does anyone run Plague Spitter in the sideboard? Is aggro even out there in the current format? Is fish around enough for massacre to be there, either?
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I'm curious, as I'm building this deck ( completely foiled! )...
Does anyone run Plague Spitter in the sideboard? Is aggro even out there in the current format? Is fish around enough for massacre to be there, either?
Running a maindeck Empty the Warrens and 2 or 3 in the board is the best way to beat fish and stax. It's really easy for gifts just to ride a medium sized ETW to the win. Pyroclasm and Massacre are decent options and might become more relevant when people start adapting to Empty the Warrens.
You might also consider trying Thrashing Wumpus in the sideboard, as it just demolishes any kind of creatures if it resolves. Additionally, it's not too bad of a clock by itself. If you want to get REALLY techy you could try Caltrops.
Massacre is not as good nowadays because of Jotun Grunt running around. That being said, it's still an ok card.
ETW is really the best option you have against aggro control. Due to Grunt and the recent popularity of b-man, clasm and massacre have lost a lot of their power.
Against things like fish and stax you don't use etw like a win condition, although it can easily become one. Much more often, it basically serves as a giant wall for fishies or infinite industrial resources (a la smokestack or tanglewire). Just play it with a storm of 3 or so, which is really, really easy, and you can actually usually ride the time and resources bought with the tokens to a win.
In this respect, they are often better than Massacre and Clasm, as they are good in two matches, allowing more sb space for other matchups or w/e.
Honestly, that leaves only a few real "problem" creatures left. Above all the rest is probably Confidant, which can single-handedly destroy you. Meddling Mage can also be a problem. I use Lava Dart in a fish oriented meta as it is flexable, effeceint, and essentially creates a storm of 3 for tendrils (2 to your opponant = 1 storm).
Thrashing Wumpus is difficult to use in Gifts, its much better in Combo, simply because Gifts isn't capable of creating so much black mana, since at most only 4 rituals are used. It also slows you down, and usually when wumpus is usable, etw is a stronger, uncounterable option. As for Caltrops and Plague Spitter, with either in play you can't use etw, which really sucks.
If you don't find those are enough, the best "creature solutions" are probably Old Man of the Sea and Threads of Disloyalty. They are cheap, only require blue, so your mana base is relativly safe, and they can really cause fish players problems.
If you are worried about oposing etw tokens, the best option is probably either E-Truth or Slice and Dice (its uncounterable and cantrips, which is nice).
Can you play a strong Gifts deck WITHOUT Mana Drain?
Or is that essentially an entirely different deck?
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Can you play a strong Gifts deck WITHOUT Mana Drain?
Or is that essentially an entirely different deck?
Eh, if you cut Drain, you're almost forced to look elsewhere for the control, meaning Duress or Misdirection. If you run Misdirection, then you end up just taking the remaining steps to Pitch Long.
Can you play a strong Gifts deck WITHOUT Mana Drain?
Or is that essentially an entirely different deck?
Gifts without Drains becomes Pitch Long, after you cut the stuff that is bad without drains. Drains can be weak in certain metagames and cutting them down to 2 or 3 in certain cases is not unheard of.
The above posts are actually incorrect. There is a variation known as "ritual gifts". This varient is bascially similar in design and play to gifts, but slightly more aggressive and opting for a set of dark rituals as an accelerant over Drains.
As you can see, it retains basic gifts principles, keeping the whole recoup idea consistant and running a similar game plan, but it is more devouted towards combo, and runs rituals instead of drains, and duresses in the "meta" slots of the original deck. This deck is relativly new, but has put up results.
I would like to also mention that even in normal Gifts, I often sideboard out drains against a lot. For instance, fish or other aggro strategies render them much weaker. However, drains are very strong against other control and good against combo as well. Despite Drain's actual power, which is very high, I believe that the threat of a drain is much more powerful than the drain itself. Even in like ritual gifts, you can leave UU up and you opponants will actually play around the drain a lot.
I am about a click away from getting a playset of Drains but I really do question if they're cost is worth it in play. I've been playtesting a lil' bit and notice drains almost act as a dead card as I'm simply trying to combo out.
A friend of mine laughed ( and made a good point ) that Mana Drains are basically $100 FoW pitches. If that's the case, maybe it's time to re-think that purchase...
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I advocate winning expensive cards, which is the only way that is feasible for me ;).
However, the power of drain cannot be ignored. First is the huge psychological advantage. The next is that that drains should not be treated as control cards but as rituals that slow your opponant. Usually, a drain will enable you to counter an opponants spell, which may or may not be significant, in return for allowing you to cast a gifts off of one island.
It should be noted that they are usually dead while trying to "go off", but you shouldn't be going off with regular gifts until you can gaurentee a win or are forced into it. Use drains as tools towards helping you go off, and towards denying your opponants strategy, and often similtaniously.
Drains are also dead in certain matchups, like fish or Ichorid, but against stax they are the reason you are able to push through, coupled with mass bounce. Drains are also integral towards winning counter wars with other control decks, and to gaining the advantage gifts currently has over combo.
However, I would not advocate throwing 300 dollars away for a set of drains unless you have 300 bucks floating around with nothing better to do with. With the amount of 15 and up proxy events occuring, spending the money doesn't seem worth it. Furthermore, a lot of events give the tings away as prizes, which is how I got mine, so thats a feasible option.
I would say drains are worth it if you want to play gifts as a gifts deck, but I'll say I don't think I would have ever gotten them if it weren't for prizes. I just don't have the funds, but I can't speak for you. If you have the money, rest assured knowing that 1) drains won't go down in value (assuming you are purchasing them for 80-100 if english, 60-80 if italian), 2) they are a pillar of the format, and integral not only to gifts control, but many other decks (esspecially control slaver), and 3) Gifts doesn't play the same w/o drains. It isn't essential to own drains, however, so you'll just have to make a judgement call.
I appreciate your words, you've provided a lot of good points and insight.
I've decided NOT to go with Drains, at least not right now. I think that the decklist I prefer to play is not in need of them as it's more of the Ritual-Gifts list you posted with my own variation.
I can see owning drains, but I can't see spending the money on them as I would probably rather buy a piece of power or even foil out my deck and just proxy them if I end up wanting to use them.
Maybe apart of this is that I remember drains making the big jump from $10 - $20 and thinking that was ridiculous even then as a younger kid, haha.
Anyhow, again, thank you - you had a lot of good things to say and it helped me understand their importance and 'value' in full.
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Non-Basic Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
I'm looking to build this deck but I'm wondering what the second set of Polluted Delta are supposed to be.
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Also, is Mind Twist no good anymore? It seems it would be some good in this deck, but I'm pretty out of touch with the format now... I used to play when the abyss version of "The Deck" was the deck to beat.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Mindtwist is way to slow, vulnerable, and expensive. It basically says "Drain Me", will only hit opponants who don't care about it (ie, stax, ichorid), it helps a lot of players (ichroid, stx), and if it resolves, it is likely your opponant didn't have much, and if he did, hymn or duress would have been just as good.
Twist could be erratad to say "you may play 60 copies of this in your deck" and no one would play with it. Its too slow now adays.
The critical turns of vintage are turn 1 and 2. By turn 2, most games have already ended, in essence (although the game might not "end" for a few more turns). Twist doesn't really do anything for those "cirtical" turns, and as such it isn't really powerful anymore.
The whole concept of "the deck" is now totally obsolete simply because the format is too fast and resliant. Storm ended control's ability to counter combo decks, and as such combo became retarded fast, control became retarded fast to compensate, aggro became the control deck of the format (except ichorid) in addition to stax, and all of those decks cant afford even 3 mana to pull off a hymn, and any more and it will just run head first into a drain and allow your opponant to win. By turn 2-4, combo has won or lost, control has gained control, aggro has dropped its hand, as has stax, and ichorid has already destroyed its own deck. Twist only does anything by then, and as such it is simply obsolete, in addition to its opposition of the abysse, and any creature that costs more than 2 mana (that aren't artifacts).
I do recomend this deck, it is by far one of the strongest decks available, in addition to combo, but if you had been playing vintage before Gat or Long came around and then stopped, the format is not even recognizable.
if you had been playing vintage before Gat or Long came around and then stopped, the format is not even recognizable.
Yeah, tell me about it. All of the decks look like one another, but with 4 different cards and names, yet they play much differently from each other. I've got a lot of testing and practicing to do... especially since right now I can't even goldfish that January 07 list any faster than turn 4. Like I said, lots of practice ahead.
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Yeah, tell me about it. All of the decks look like one another, but with 4 different cards and names, yet they play much differently from each other.
Very true, I feel the same way.
It's really quite amazing how different they can be, how just a few cards change everything.
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The funniest part is how by changing like 3 cards at once is practically a revolution. Who rembers the resistance to repeal in gifts? Or even to ETW? And yet, that one single card, run as a singleton in every deck its played in, which isn't even that many, has fundamentally changed several archtypes, made at least two archtypes obsolete, drastically shifted the metagame, and given rise to different varients of combo. A single common that is played as a one of has changed the entire format.
Vintage has become the epitomy of effeicnety. I mean, Mana Crypt is too freakin slow now. How ridiculous is that?
So I've been playing Andy Probasco's list for about 3-4 days now and simply can't beat mono-black on a consistant basis. Is this normal or do I just need to learn the deck better? I admit I'm not very good with it yet, but the discard + sinkhole-wasteland-stripmine + Null Rod just destroys me. I have made two changes to the list as well. I dropped the Library of Alexandria in exchange for a mana vault because the Library rarely ever drew me cards, and I always drew too much land (I never thought I'd drop this card from any deck). I also changed the fetch lands to a 2 & 3 count to help with the pithing needle situation.
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RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
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By Stephen MenendianMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Misdirection
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
1 Recoup
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Rushing River
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
Arguably the Strongest deck in the Current Vintage environment, Meandeck gifts is a control/combo hybrid, capable of fufilling the control role until the point of breaking out into a combination of spells resulting in either Tinkering for Darksteel Colossus and Time Walking to victory, or Recouping Yawgmoth's Will into a Tendrils of Agony kill. This is achieved on the strong shoulders of Gifts Ungiven and Mana Drain. It is said that Gifts is the most difficult Vintage deck to play, containing an effective infinite decision tree, and rewarding tight play more than any other deck. This is not a Vintage beginner's deck.
The following is the "core" of the deck:
3 Merchant Scroll (arguably)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
1 Yawgy's Win
1 Tinker
1 Tinker Target (could be colossus or titan)
1 Recoup
1 Tendrils (could be burning wish)
1 D-Tutor
1 M-Tutor
1 Recall
The rest of the slots are free for metagame slots. One could fill these with extra draw (Gifts, Scroll, TfK, FoF, Srying), extra pitch counters (I definitly like having 2 Mis-Ds), extra bounce, and a huge variety of metagame hate.
Furthermore, the shown list is only one of the variations of Gifts. Gifts X and Brassman Gifts are both very viable solutions, and the lists played by the Pease brothers display this (running TfKs and maindeck hate). Repeal has also seen success within gifts, fulling a much faster storm and serving as relativly strong bounce.
Just as this is the most difficult to play, it is also the most difficult to build properlly, demanding an intense comprehension of the metagame to make the proper calls.
BAM = Broken Artifact Mana
This is also really cool, cause when your opponant plays null rod, they become Dead Artifact MAna, DAM.
BAM will usually progress in the following order: Lotus, On-Color Moxen, Off-Color Moxen, Crypt, Ring, Vault, Petal. If it progresses differntly, I write them out, but otherwise, I will use BAM. Usually, there are 9 BAM, and order is rarelly broken, usually around crypt and ring if it is, or a transplaced Petal.
I always use BAM. I figure, eventually it will catch on, and I might as well keep using it so that it does catch on.
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Tormod's Crypt
Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pyroblast
3 Repeal
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
Non-Basic Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pyroblast
1 Rebuild
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Repeal
3 Duress
2 Empty the Warrens
** DigitalLogic on MTGO **
Does anyone run Plague Spitter in the sideboard? Is aggro even out there in the current format? Is fish around enough for massacre to be there, either?
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Running a maindeck Empty the Warrens and 2 or 3 in the board is the best way to beat fish and stax. It's really easy for gifts just to ride a medium sized ETW to the win. Pyroclasm and Massacre are decent options and might become more relevant when people start adapting to Empty the Warrens.
Massacre is not as good nowadays because of Jotun Grunt running around. That being said, it's still an ok card.
Magic Rules Advisor
How Creatures Die
Targets | Triggered Abilities | Priority and the Stack | Older Articles
Against things like fish and stax you don't use etw like a win condition, although it can easily become one. Much more often, it basically serves as a giant wall for fishies or infinite industrial resources (a la smokestack or tanglewire). Just play it with a storm of 3 or so, which is really, really easy, and you can actually usually ride the time and resources bought with the tokens to a win.
In this respect, they are often better than Massacre and Clasm, as they are good in two matches, allowing more sb space for other matchups or w/e.
Honestly, that leaves only a few real "problem" creatures left. Above all the rest is probably Confidant, which can single-handedly destroy you. Meddling Mage can also be a problem. I use Lava Dart in a fish oriented meta as it is flexable, effeceint, and essentially creates a storm of 3 for tendrils (2 to your opponant = 1 storm).
Thrashing Wumpus is difficult to use in Gifts, its much better in Combo, simply because Gifts isn't capable of creating so much black mana, since at most only 4 rituals are used. It also slows you down, and usually when wumpus is usable, etw is a stronger, uncounterable option. As for Caltrops and Plague Spitter, with either in play you can't use etw, which really sucks.
If you don't find those are enough, the best "creature solutions" are probably Old Man of the Sea and Threads of Disloyalty. They are cheap, only require blue, so your mana base is relativly safe, and they can really cause fish players problems.
If you are worried about oposing etw tokens, the best option is probably either E-Truth or Slice and Dice (its uncounterable and cantrips, which is nice).
Or is that essentially an entirely different deck?
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Eh, if you cut Drain, you're almost forced to look elsewhere for the control, meaning Duress or Misdirection. If you run Misdirection, then you end up just taking the remaining steps to Pitch Long.
Magic Rules Advisor
How Creatures Die
Targets | Triggered Abilities | Priority and the Stack | Older Articles
Gifts without Drains becomes Pitch Long, after you cut the stuff that is bad without drains. Drains can be weak in certain metagames and cutting them down to 2 or 3 in certain cases is not unheard of.
Here is one such deck:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Island
1 Snowcovered Island
1 Swamp
// Spells
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Recoup
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mana Vault
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
As you can see, it retains basic gifts principles, keeping the whole recoup idea consistant and running a similar game plan, but it is more devouted towards combo, and runs rituals instead of drains, and duresses in the "meta" slots of the original deck. This deck is relativly new, but has put up results.
I would like to also mention that even in normal Gifts, I often sideboard out drains against a lot. For instance, fish or other aggro strategies render them much weaker. However, drains are very strong against other control and good against combo as well. Despite Drain's actual power, which is very high, I believe that the threat of a drain is much more powerful than the drain itself. Even in like ritual gifts, you can leave UU up and you opponants will actually play around the drain a lot.
I am about a click away from getting a playset of Drains but I really do question if they're cost is worth it in play. I've been playtesting a lil' bit and notice drains almost act as a dead card as I'm simply trying to combo out.
A friend of mine laughed ( and made a good point ) that Mana Drains are basically $100 FoW pitches. If that's the case, maybe it's time to re-think that purchase...
Spread the word.
However, the power of drain cannot be ignored. First is the huge psychological advantage. The next is that that drains should not be treated as control cards but as rituals that slow your opponant. Usually, a drain will enable you to counter an opponants spell, which may or may not be significant, in return for allowing you to cast a gifts off of one island.
It should be noted that they are usually dead while trying to "go off", but you shouldn't be going off with regular gifts until you can gaurentee a win or are forced into it. Use drains as tools towards helping you go off, and towards denying your opponants strategy, and often similtaniously.
Drains are also dead in certain matchups, like fish or Ichorid, but against stax they are the reason you are able to push through, coupled with mass bounce. Drains are also integral towards winning counter wars with other control decks, and to gaining the advantage gifts currently has over combo.
However, I would not advocate throwing 300 dollars away for a set of drains unless you have 300 bucks floating around with nothing better to do with. With the amount of 15 and up proxy events occuring, spending the money doesn't seem worth it. Furthermore, a lot of events give the tings away as prizes, which is how I got mine, so thats a feasible option.
I would say drains are worth it if you want to play gifts as a gifts deck, but I'll say I don't think I would have ever gotten them if it weren't for prizes. I just don't have the funds, but I can't speak for you. If you have the money, rest assured knowing that 1) drains won't go down in value (assuming you are purchasing them for 80-100 if english, 60-80 if italian), 2) they are a pillar of the format, and integral not only to gifts control, but many other decks (esspecially control slaver), and 3) Gifts doesn't play the same w/o drains. It isn't essential to own drains, however, so you'll just have to make a judgement call.
I've decided NOT to go with Drains, at least not right now. I think that the decklist I prefer to play is not in need of them as it's more of the Ritual-Gifts list you posted with my own variation.
I can see owning drains, but I can't see spending the money on them as I would probably rather buy a piece of power or even foil out my deck and just proxy them if I end up wanting to use them.
Maybe apart of this is that I remember drains making the big jump from $10 - $20 and thinking that was ridiculous even then as a younger kid, haha.
Anyhow, again, thank you - you had a lot of good things to say and it helped me understand their importance and 'value' in full.
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I'm looking to build this deck but I'm wondering what the second set of Polluted Delta are supposed to be.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
The deck had 64 cards so I imagine they just listed Delta twice by accident.
Also, is Mind Twist no good anymore? It seems it would be some good in this deck, but I'm pretty out of touch with the format now... I used to play when the abyss version of "The Deck" was the deck to beat.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Twist could be erratad to say "you may play 60 copies of this in your deck" and no one would play with it. Its too slow now adays.
The critical turns of vintage are turn 1 and 2. By turn 2, most games have already ended, in essence (although the game might not "end" for a few more turns). Twist doesn't really do anything for those "cirtical" turns, and as such it isn't really powerful anymore.
The whole concept of "the deck" is now totally obsolete simply because the format is too fast and resliant. Storm ended control's ability to counter combo decks, and as such combo became retarded fast, control became retarded fast to compensate, aggro became the control deck of the format (except ichorid) in addition to stax, and all of those decks cant afford even 3 mana to pull off a hymn, and any more and it will just run head first into a drain and allow your opponant to win. By turn 2-4, combo has won or lost, control has gained control, aggro has dropped its hand, as has stax, and ichorid has already destroyed its own deck. Twist only does anything by then, and as such it is simply obsolete, in addition to its opposition of the abysse, and any creature that costs more than 2 mana (that aren't artifacts).
I do recomend this deck, it is by far one of the strongest decks available, in addition to combo, but if you had been playing vintage before Gat or Long came around and then stopped, the format is not even recognizable.
Yeah, tell me about it. All of the decks look like one another, but with 4 different cards and names, yet they play much differently from each other. I've got a lot of testing and practicing to do... especially since right now I can't even goldfish that January 07 list any faster than turn 4. Like I said, lots of practice ahead.
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...
Very true, I feel the same way.
It's really quite amazing how different they can be, how just a few cards change everything.
Spread the word.
Vintage has become the epitomy of effeicnety. I mean, Mana Crypt is too freakin slow now. How ridiculous is that?
Also, congrats on your baby Jay C!
RG Playing undercosted burn and over-powered creatures since 1994. RG
"I finally figured out what One With Nothing is good for!" says Paul. "Oh yeah? What?" comes the reply. "It comboes with Tarmogoyf!"
True story...