New deck idea (turn 1 win)

  • #1
    i say a deck idea that can win on turn 1 using the new card conflux.
    so i made i deck list that might work with it.

    Traike's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land
    2x swamp
    4x Tropical Island
    4x Tundra
    4x Underground Sea
    4x Volcanic Island

    Creatures
    4x Transguild Courier
    2x Cromat

    Spells
    2x Coalition Victory
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Brainstorm
    4x Dream Halls
    4x Pact of Negation
    4x Chrome Mox
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Diamond
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Ponder
    4x Conflux
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Imperial Seal
    2x Prismatic Omen
    3x Force of Will


    The combo is to get Dream Halls out on turn 1 using a land a mox and black Lotus. When u have it in play you just need to play conflux to get another conflux, Pact and 3 colored cards. Then play another conflux to grab a 3rd conflux, pact, prismatic omen and 2 colored cards (1needs to be green). play the 3rd conflux search for cromat, Coalition Victory and 3 other cards. then play the Cromat, prismatic omen, and Coalition Victory and win.

    If anyone has any ideas to help the deck work better and maybe harder to stop, it would be helpfull.


    Thx to NightfallGemini for the Deck idea.
    Last edited by Traike: 1/5/2009 4:23:57 PM
    Post 100 12/12/09 Hooray!
  • #2
    Sorry to say, but as it is right now, your deck is too vulnerable to removals and permission etc. How do you win against your opponents FOW, Challice, etc..
    Check out my Cube Discussion Thread. Also try the draft simulator at Cube Tutor
  • #3
    I was pleasantly suprised to see that it was a new deck type - I am not sure how viable it is, but it is somewhat unique for the moment. You might play with your mana base some to add a Tolarian Academy and some fetchlands (Flooded Shoreline and Polluted Delta) to help the Dream Halls come out faster and thin for the later game.
  • #4
    Quote from D3@D
    Sorry to say, but as it is right now, your deck is too vulnerable to removals and permission etc. How do you win against your opponents FOW, Challice, etc..


    To deal with FOW I have pact to counter it back. I wasn't even thinking of Challice. how do you think a good way to deal with them plus this deck is meant to go off on turn 1 so challice shouldn't be a problem unless i have to go off late.
    Post 100 12/12/09 Hooray!
  • #5
    Why not go Halls -> conflux -> 5 random cards -> Conflux -> More stuff -> Yawg Will -> more stuff -> tendrils? Less cards.
    Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone
    To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
  • #6
    Quote from armlx
    Why not go Halls -> conflux -> 5 random cards -> Conflux -> More stuff -> Yawg Will -> more stuff -> tendrils? Less cards.


    This.

    If you're playing a card that basically says "Search your deck for 5 cards and put them in your hand" and you have Dream Halls out, there's no need to go for anything gimmicky. Just get a bunch of draw and mana production and blow them out with Tendrils.

    This is actually giving me an idea for a deck (haven't built one in a year or so) so I might post a draft of my own tomorrow.
    I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
  • #7
    Quote from D3@D
    Sorry to say, but as it is right now, your deck is too vulnerable to removals and permission etc. How do you win against your opponents FOW, Challice, etc..


    Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?
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  • #8
    Here is my version. Seem familiar? Its pretty much grimlong with the conflux engine as a win. In a bit of testing, it seems more consistent, but online I always seem to come up a half turn late or a mana short. In real life, I've had a LOT more success Grin

    PocketDimension's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures
    4 Street Wraith

    Spells
    1 Ponder
    4 Dream Halls
    4 Pact of Negation
    3 Force of Will
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Mind's Desire
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Timetwister
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Chain of Vapor
    1 Rebuild
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Conflux

    Lands
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Sunken Ruins
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Tolarian Academy

    Last edited by PocketDimension: 1/7/2009 6:23:56 PM
    I've officially quit magic. Don't like the crap that WotC's been taking on us.
  • #9
    Quote from Immersa
    Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?


    Yes, but that's assuming you can get the Dream Halls into play. If your opponent's on the play and resolves Chalice for 0, that decklist has no chance of playing Dream Halls until turn 5, and that's probably not good enough to win.
    I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
  • #10
    Quote from Immersa
    Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?


    Binary basically answered the question for me.

    I'm not writing off this deck, I just think it has some things it should take into consideration, and it needs to be able to compete with other more consistent decks out there. How often can you rely on the turn 1 win? (with counter backup etc).

    If you're on the draw, how much will a turn one Challice or Duress against you set you back? If you don't have the starting hand to pull of your combo turn one, how likely will you be able to pull it of turn 2? etc..

    Just a thought, why not build around a more controlish approach with Drains?
    Check out my Cube Discussion Thread. Also try the draft simulator at Cube Tutor
  • #11
    Another problem with Dream Halls it is completely symmetric. Your chances of resolving a Conflux against even a tapped out opponent are piss poor because it allows your opponent to FoW you with ANY counterspell, including mana drain.

    I love this idea, but unfortunately dream halls will not be competitive due to the symmetric nature of the card.
  • #12
    sidenote from gatherer:

    Legal In Legacy, Vintage
    Banned In Legacy
    Wink sure

    The first list is of course way too much toying around. A straight tendrils kill is way easier and you can easily cast multiple tendrils with this combo (you don't even have to tutor for draw/recursion, all the free spells from Dreamhalls + 2x tendrils is more than enough) . Of course you need own counterspells of any kind to protect the first Conflux but it's nothing new for a combodeck..you have to play through zero cost counters all the time anyway and they still need 4 blue cards to counter twice.

    The bigger problem is, how to cheat Dream Halls into play as fast and consistent as possible.

    Thnx to Starkiller2 for the signature Smile

    9 Paulo Vitor D. da Rosa Win 1916
  • #13
    Pocket,

    I am again intrigued by your build, but you forgot the Conflux's. I might reccomend going to Cromat over Coalition, at least if Cromat has some value on his own - admittedly you can't find him with Mystical, but if someone does something wierd like play with Exhume or Show and Tell he could come back into play. Plus Desire could actually cast him and you would at least have a 5/5 Beater vs a Coalition that can never go off.
  • #14
    What exactly does Conflux and Prismatic Omen do? I haven't seen a Conflux spoiler anywhere.
    Top8: finishes with own creations:
    7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
  • #15
    Conflux

    :3mana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:SorcerySearch your library for a white card, a blue card, a black card, a red card, and a green card, reveal them, and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library.Illus. Karl Kopinski#102/145


    Copied from the spoiler link above and Prismatic Omen is out of the Shadowmoor expansion.

    Conflux is basically a super tutor and Prismatic enables Coalitions land conditions - useful if you have your 5 color creatures out.
    Last edited by Beralt: 1/6/2009 10:34:06 AM
  • #16
    Why not play a little more controllish and add Mana Drain yourself?
    That way you can very easily cast Dream Halls and stop their accel/draw/threat?
  • #17
    Quote from Neon-chan

    The bigger problem is, how to cheat Dream Halls into play as fast and consistent as possible.


    Is this a job for Academy Rector?
    I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
  • #18
    Quote from Binary
    Is this a job for Academy Rector?

    Then the trouble would be how to get it in the yard....... Flash would have been good, if it weren't for hulk coming along....:-/
  • #19
    Quote from Rubin8or
    Then the trouble would be how to get it in the yard....... Flash would have been good, if it weren't for hulk coming along....:-/


    The old standard for that was Cabal Therapy.
    I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
  • #20
    The problem is, that rector costs only 1 less than dream halls(ok only 1 colored symbol but still) and is in a less favorable color. Flash would be good but in this case we could just play hulk and then we had another deck ^^ Rector could act as Dream Halls 5-8 but then the deck would get really klobo (too many expensive combopieces/cards)

    Thnx to Starkiller2 for the signature Smile

    9 Paulo Vitor D. da Rosa Win 1916
  • #21
    Quote from Neon-chan
    The problem is, that rector costs only 1 less than dream halls(ok only 1 colored symbol but still) and is in a less favorable color. Flash would be good but in this case we could just play hulk and then we had another deck ^^ Rector could act as Dream Halls 5-8 but then the deck would get really klobo (too many expensive combopieces/cards)


    Then run Mana Crypt and Mana Vault. Do you realize that 1 mana less is soooo freakin' significant? Especially when you don't have to pay double blue?
    Top8: finishes with own creations:
    7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
  • #22
    Quote from Beralt
    Pocket,

    I am again intrigued by your build, but you forgot the Conflux's. I might reccomend going to Cromat over Coalition, at least if Cromat has some value on his own - admittedly you can't find him with Mystical, but if someone does something wierd like play with Exhume or Show and Tell he could come back into play. Plus Desire could actually cast him and you would at least have a 5/5 Beater vs a Coalition that can never go off.

    XD
    Misprinted. The victories ARE the confluxes. Thats all there is - it basically plays like grim long, only you're almost guaranteed to win when you play dream halls and have no chance to fizzle (unlike grim long)
    I've officially quit magic. Don't like the crap that WotC's been taking on us.
  • #23
    With all the draw 7 cards available, and Yawgmoth's Bargain, could Niv-Mizzet be an option as a kill condition?
    DCI L1 Judge


  • #24
    I guess my problem with the deck is that you need to resolve Dream Halls to win, which then could turn on any answers your opponent may have in hand. It seems that Bargain, Necropotence, Memory Jar or Mind's Desire are easier to resolve and pretty much win without enabling your opponent further interaction. The extra Blue in Dream Halls casting cost is also critical, Academy helps but it slightly harder to find then non-resticted black mana generators like Cabal & Dark Ritual.

    Nonetheless I am still curious if you can get it into play with Rector. Would like to see a decklist based on that.

    Think that inevitably it's going to have problems because the cards that make up the combo are difficult to use when you don't have the combo.

    But keep working, maybe future cards from Conflux will provide the missing pieces.
  • #25
    I'd definately say that the bluer the better. And I think that the approach with forces and drains is definately the best way to go. The list from the mana drain had a lot of good innovation so far, here is the list, along with a small explanation by bruizar of the tmd forums:

    Halls of Agony.dec

    //Mana
    4 Underground Sea
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault

    //Tutors
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Gifts Ungiven
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    2 Conflux
    1 Research // Development

    // HALLS
    4 Dream Halls

    //Counters
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Force of Will
    3 Pact of Negation
    2 Misdirection

    //Draw & Disruption
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Brainstorm
    3 Duress
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Ponder
    1 Cruel Ultimatum (May be replaced by a useful or or , , or hybrid spell)
    1 Stifle

    //Broken
    1 Yawgmoth's Will


    //Sideboard
    1 Conflux
    1 Research // Development
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    12 Free slots

    Combo Sequence

    1) As soon as you Mana Drain into Dream Halls, play Conflux and tutor for:
    Yawgmoth's Will
    Research & Development
    Pact of Negation
    Conflux
    Cruel Ultimatum

    2) Cast Yawgmoth's will pitching Cruel Ultimatum

    3) Cast Research & Development, pitching Conflux, Move Conflux, Research & Development, and 2 other pitchable cards from your sideboard to your deck.

    4) Cast Conflux from the graveyard pitching Pact of Negation from your hand, tutor for conflux, research & development and 2 other pitchable cards.

    5 till infinity) Cast Research, Casts Conflux, Cast Research, Cast Conflux... etc..

    6) Cast Research for Tendrils of Agony, Conflux, and 2 pitchable cards

    7) Cast Conflux for Tendrils and a pitchable card

    8) Cast Tendrils of Agony

    Pact of Negation is there to protect your combo. Gifts and Fact or Fiction give you 2 free confluxes under Yawgmoth's will. The cards thrown in your graveyard can be played by pitching the ones you got in your hand after resolving Yawgmoth's Will.

    I'm thinking of replacing Cruel Ultimatum with Stand/Deliver. It serves as the card to tutor and pitches for blue. Deliver gives me an extra card to bounce with, which I can play before resolving Dream Halls.//

    The only parts I don't like are the singleton stifles and cruel ultimatum, the pact of negations, but other than that it seems like what you would want out of a dream halls build. It is fairly fast, should win the turn that dream halls comes into play, or at least be pretty far ahead. The combo pieces (conflux, research) pitch to force, and with so much blue, back to basics comes to mind as well.

    The draw engine bugs me a bit, though. If we are forced so far blue, where are all the draw spells?
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