The combo is to get Dream Halls out on turn 1 using a land a mox and black Lotus. When u have it in play you just need to play conflux to get another conflux, Pact and 3 colored cards. Then play another conflux to grab a 3rd conflux, pact, prismatic omen and 2 colored cards (1needs to be green). play the 3rd conflux search for cromat, Coalition Victory and 3 other cards. then play the Cromat, prismatic omen, and Coalition Victory and win.
If anyone has any ideas to help the deck work better and maybe harder to stop, it would be helpfull.
Sorry to say, but as it is right now, your deck is too vulnerable to removals and permission etc. How do you win against your opponents FOW, Challice, etc..
I was pleasantly suprised to see that it was a new deck type - I am not sure how viable it is, but it is somewhat unique for the moment. You might play with your mana base some to add a Tolarian Academy and some fetchlands (Flooded Shoreline and Polluted Delta) to help the Dream Halls come out faster and thin for the later game.
Sorry to say, but as it is right now, your deck is too vulnerable to removals and permission etc. How do you win against your opponents FOW, Challice, etc..
To deal with FOW I have pact to counter it back. I wasn't even thinking of Challice. how do you think a good way to deal with them plus this deck is meant to go off on turn 1 so challice shouldn't be a problem unless i have to go off late.
Why not go Halls -> conflux -> 5 random cards -> Conflux -> More stuff -> Yawg Will -> more stuff -> tendrils? Less cards.
This.
If you're playing a card that basically says "Search your deck for 5 cards and put them in your hand" and you have Dream Halls out, there's no need to go for anything gimmicky. Just get a bunch of draw and mana production and blow them out with Tendrils.
This is actually giving me an idea for a deck (haven't built one in a year or so) so I might post a draft of my own tomorrow.
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Sorry to say, but as it is right now, your deck is too vulnerable to removals and permission etc. How do you win against your opponents FOW, Challice, etc..
Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?
Here is my version. Seem familiar? Its pretty much grimlong with the conflux engine as a win. In a bit of testing, it seems more consistent, but online I always seem to come up a half turn late or a mana short. In real life, I've had a LOT more success
Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?
Yes, but that's assuming you can get the Dream Halls into play. If your opponent's on the play and resolves Chalice for 0, that decklist has no chance of playing Dream Halls until turn 5, and that's probably not good enough to win.
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Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?
Binary basically answered the question for me.
I'm not writing off this deck, I just think it has some things it should take into consideration, and it needs to be able to compete with other more consistent decks out there. How often can you rely on the turn 1 win? (with counter backup etc).
If you're on the draw, how much will a turn one Challice or Duress against you set you back? If you don't have the starting hand to pull of your combo turn one, how likely will you be able to pull it of turn 2? etc..
Just a thought, why not build around a more controlish approach with Drains?
Another problem with Dream Halls it is completely symmetric. Your chances of resolving a Conflux against even a tapped out opponent are piss poor because it allows your opponent to FoW you with ANY counterspell, including mana drain.
I love this idea, but unfortunately dream halls will not be competitive due to the symmetric nature of the card.
I am again intrigued by your build, but you forgot the Conflux's. I might reccomend going to Cromat over Coalition, at least if Cromat has some value on his own - admittedly you can't find him with Mystical, but if someone does something wierd like play with Exhume or Show and Tell he could come back into play. Plus Desire could actually cast him and you would at least have a 5/5 Beater vs a Coalition that can never go off.
:3mana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:SorcerySearch your library for a white card, a blue card, a black card, a red card, and a green card, reveal them, and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library.Illus. Karl Kopinski#102/145
Copied from the spoiler link above and Prismatic Omen is out of the Shadowmoor expansion.
Conflux is basically a super tutor and Prismatic enables Coalitions land conditions - useful if you have your 5 color creatures out.
The problem is, that rector costs only 1 less than dream halls(ok only 1 colored symbol but still) and is in a less favorable color. Flash would be good but in this case we could just play hulk and then we had another deck ^^ Rector could act as Dream Halls 5-8 but then the deck would get really klobo (too many expensive combopieces/cards)
Then run Mana Crypt and Mana Vault. Do you realize that 1 mana less is soooo freakin' significant? Especially when you don't have to pay double blue?
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7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
I am again intrigued by your build, but you forgot the Conflux's. I might reccomend going to Cromat over Coalition, at least if Cromat has some value on his own - admittedly you can't find him with Mystical, but if someone does something wierd like play with Exhume or Show and Tell he could come back into play. Plus Desire could actually cast him and you would at least have a 5/5 Beater vs a Coalition that can never go off.
Misprinted. The victories ARE the confluxes. Thats all there is - it basically plays like grim long, only you're almost guaranteed to win when you play dream halls and have no chance to fizzle (unlike grim long)
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I've officially quit magic. Don't like the crap that WotC's been taking on us.
I guess my problem with the deck is that you need to resolve Dream Halls to win, which then could turn on any answers your opponent may have in hand. It seems that Bargain, Necropotence, Memory Jar or Mind's Desire are easier to resolve and pretty much win without enabling your opponent further interaction. The extra Blue in Dream Halls casting cost is also critical, Academy helps but it slightly harder to find then non-resticted black mana generators like Cabal & Dark Ritual.
Nonetheless I am still curious if you can get it into play with Rector. Would like to see a decklist based on that.
Think that inevitably it's going to have problems because the cards that make up the combo are difficult to use when you don't have the combo.
But keep working, maybe future cards from Conflux will provide the missing pieces.
I'd definately say that the bluer the better. And I think that the approach with forces and drains is definately the best way to go. The list from the mana drain had a lot of good innovation so far, here is the list, along with a small explanation by bruizar of the tmd forums:
Halls of Agony.dec
//Mana
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
//Tutors
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Conflux
1 Research // Development
// HALLS
4 Dream Halls
//Counters
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
2 Misdirection
//Draw & Disruption
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
3 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ponder
1 Cruel Ultimatum (May be replaced by a useful or or , , or hybrid spell)
1 Stifle
//Broken
1 Yawgmoth's Will
//Sideboard
1 Conflux
1 Research // Development
1 Tendrils of Agony
12 Free slots
Combo Sequence
1) As soon as you Mana Drain into Dream Halls, play Conflux and tutor for:
Yawgmoth's Will
Research & Development
Pact of Negation
Conflux
Cruel Ultimatum
2) Cast Yawgmoth's will pitching Cruel Ultimatum
3) Cast Research & Development, pitching Conflux, Move Conflux, Research & Development, and 2 other pitchable cards from your sideboard to your deck.
4) Cast Conflux from the graveyard pitching Pact of Negation from your hand, tutor for conflux, research & development and 2 other pitchable cards.
6) Cast Research for Tendrils of Agony, Conflux, and 2 pitchable cards
7) Cast Conflux for Tendrils and a pitchable card
8) Cast Tendrils of Agony
Pact of Negation is there to protect your combo. Gifts and Fact or Fiction give you 2 free confluxes under Yawgmoth's will. The cards thrown in your graveyard can be played by pitching the ones you got in your hand after resolving Yawgmoth's Will.
I'm thinking of replacing Cruel Ultimatum with Stand/Deliver. It serves as the card to tutor and pitches for blue. Deliver gives me an extra card to bounce with, which I can play before resolving Dream Halls.//
The only parts I don't like are the singleton stifles and cruel ultimatum, the pact of negations, but other than that it seems like what you would want out of a dream halls build. It is fairly fast, should win the turn that dream halls comes into play, or at least be pretty far ahead. The combo pieces (conflux, research) pitch to force, and with so much blue, back to basics comes to mind as well.
The draw engine bugs me a bit, though. If we are forced so far blue, where are all the draw spells?
A not too great card, but what about Last Word? Once dream halls lands (which is the much more important part of the deck) its pretty easy to win with conflux. there's tons of ways to win. But last word is a fine way ot protecting the combo, because with conflux having enough cards to pitch isnt as much of the problem.
However, the fact is most players will stop the first conflux and the dream halls, so tbh i guess last word isnt as good as pact, because pact can counter their counter, and your near garunteed a win next turn.
For the kill, I guess a Yawgmoth's Will route would be simplest. You want as little spots as possible devoted to the kill. However what about...
Conflux->2 Transguild Courier's, 1 Conflux, 1 Searing Wind, 1 Pact of Negation (for further protection). Pitch Curier ->Conflux->Searing Wind and a gold Pitch. For the kill you'd simply need 2 Searing Wind, and 3 pitch cards. I guess you could have a backup Wind, but it seems unnecesary because each time you can fetch Pact's which is ample protection. 5 Slots doesn't seem too bad (not counting the Conflux's themselves, however you need them to go off so you'll want to play as many as possible anyway).
//Mana
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
//Tutors
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Conflux
1 Research // Development
// HALLS
4 Dream Halls
//Counters
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
2 Misdirection
//Draw & Disruption
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
3 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ponder
1 Cruel Ultimatum (May be replaced by a useful or or , , or hybrid spell)
1 Stifle
//Broken
1 Yawgmoth's Will
//Sideboard
1 Conflux
1 Research // Development
1 Tendrils of Agony
12 Free slots
Combo Sequence
1) As soon as you Mana Drain into Dream Halls, play Conflux and tutor for:
Yawgmoth's Will
Research & Development
Pact of Negation
Conflux
Cruel Ultimatum
2) Cast Yawgmoth's will pitching Cruel Ultimatum
3) Cast Research & Development, pitching Conflux, Move Conflux, Research & Development, and 2 other pitchable cards from your sideboard to your deck.
4) Cast Conflux from the graveyard pitching Pact of Negation from your hand, tutor for conflux, research & development and 2 other pitchable cards.
6) Cast Research for Tendrils of Agony, Conflux, and 2 pitchable cards
7) Cast Conflux for Tendrils and a pitchable card
8) Cast Tendrils of Agony
I just threw this deck list together in MWS and tried some test hands. After a few go arounds, I dropped one Island for a third main deck Conflux, and it actually made a lot of difference. I never went off turn one, but did go off turn two (with plenty of combo protection) several times and never went off later than turn three. But that is just goldfishing. I'd have to do some actual play testing to see how well it truly works.
Also, I found that Cruel Ultimatum is really good in the main, because I put two Searing Wind in the sideboard just for fun, and the Ultimatum can be pitched to them. Dunno if it's a great choice, but it works (in theory...)
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
so i made i deck list that might work with it.
2x swamp
4x Tropical Island
4x Tundra
4x Underground Sea
4x Volcanic Island
Creatures
4x Transguild Courier
2x Cromat
Spells
2x Coalition Victory
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
4x Dream Halls
4x Pact of Negation
4x Chrome Mox
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Diamond
1x Black Lotus
1x Ponder
4x Conflux
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
2x Prismatic Omen
3x Force of Will
The combo is to get Dream Halls out on turn 1 using a land a mox and black Lotus. When u have it in play you just need to play conflux to get another conflux, Pact and 3 colored cards. Then play another conflux to grab a 3rd conflux, pact, prismatic omen and 2 colored cards (1needs to be green). play the 3rd conflux search for cromat, Coalition Victory and 3 other cards. then play the Cromat, prismatic omen, and Coalition Victory and win.
If anyone has any ideas to help the deck work better and maybe harder to stop, it would be helpfull.
Thx to NightfallGemini for the Deck idea.
To deal with FOW I have pact to counter it back. I wasn't even thinking of Challice. how do you think a good way to deal with them plus this deck is meant to go off on turn 1 so challice shouldn't be a problem unless i have to go off late.
This.
If you're playing a card that basically says "Search your deck for 5 cards and put them in your hand" and you have Dream Halls out, there's no need to go for anything gimmicky. Just get a bunch of draw and mana production and blow them out with Tendrils.
This is actually giving me an idea for a deck (haven't built one in a year or so) so I might post a draft of my own tomorrow.
Wouldn't this get around Chalice of the Void? Using Dream Halls to cast Conflux is like casting FoW; you can play it for free, but it still has a CMC of 8 where it's relevant (like Mana Drain, etc.) With that example, wouldn't the Chalice need 8 counters to stop it?
4 Street Wraith
Spells
1 Ponder
4 Dream Halls
4 Pact of Negation
3 Force of Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
1 Brainstorm
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Mind's Desire
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Timetwister
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Conflux
3 Polluted Delta
2 Sunken Ruins
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
1 Tolarian Academy
Yes, but that's assuming you can get the Dream Halls into play. If your opponent's on the play and resolves Chalice for 0, that decklist has no chance of playing Dream Halls until turn 5, and that's probably not good enough to win.
Binary basically answered the question for me.
I'm not writing off this deck, I just think it has some things it should take into consideration, and it needs to be able to compete with other more consistent decks out there. How often can you rely on the turn 1 win? (with counter backup etc).
If you're on the draw, how much will a turn one Challice or Duress against you set you back? If you don't have the starting hand to pull of your combo turn one, how likely will you be able to pull it of turn 2? etc..
Just a thought, why not build around a more controlish approach with Drains?
I love this idea, but unfortunately dream halls will not be competitive due to the symmetric nature of the card.
I am again intrigued by your build, but you forgot the Conflux's. I might reccomend going to Cromat over Coalition, at least if Cromat has some value on his own - admittedly you can't find him with Mystical, but if someone does something wierd like play with Exhume or Show and Tell he could come back into play. Plus Desire could actually cast him and you would at least have a 5/5 Beater vs a Coalition that can never go off.
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
:3mana::symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:SorcerySearch your library for a white card, a blue card, a black card, a red card, and a green card, reveal them, and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library.Illus. Karl Kopinski#102/145
Copied from the spoiler link above and Prismatic Omen is out of the Shadowmoor expansion.
Conflux is basically a super tutor and Prismatic enables Coalitions land conditions - useful if you have your 5 color creatures out.
That way you can very easily cast Dream Halls and stop their accel/draw/threat?
Is this a job for Academy Rector?
Then the trouble would be how to get it in the yard....... Flash would have been good, if it weren't for hulk coming along....:-/
Draft it on Cubetutor!
The old standard for that was Cabal Therapy.
Then run Mana Crypt and Mana Vault. Do you realize that 1 mana less is soooo freakin' significant? Especially when you don't have to pay double blue?
7th Place out of 22 people with Enchantress Bloom @The Dragon's Lair in Springfield, MA. (11/19/06). (Legacy)
Misprinted. The victories ARE the confluxes. Thats all there is - it basically plays like grim long, only you're almost guaranteed to win when you play dream halls and have no chance to fizzle (unlike grim long)
Nonetheless I am still curious if you can get it into play with Rector. Would like to see a decklist based on that.
Think that inevitably it's going to have problems because the cards that make up the combo are difficult to use when you don't have the combo.
But keep working, maybe future cards from Conflux will provide the missing pieces.
Halls of Agony.dec
//Mana
4 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
//Tutors
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Conflux
1 Research // Development
// HALLS
4 Dream Halls
//Counters
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
2 Misdirection
//Draw & Disruption
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
3 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Ponder
1 Cruel Ultimatum (May be replaced by a useful or or , , or hybrid spell)
1 Stifle
//Broken
1 Yawgmoth's Will
//Sideboard
1 Conflux
1 Research // Development
1 Tendrils of Agony
12 Free slots
Combo Sequence
1) As soon as you Mana Drain into Dream Halls, play Conflux and tutor for:
Yawgmoth's Will
Research & Development
Pact of Negation
Conflux
Cruel Ultimatum
2) Cast Yawgmoth's will pitching Cruel Ultimatum
3) Cast Research & Development, pitching Conflux, Move Conflux, Research & Development, and 2 other pitchable cards from your sideboard to your deck.
4) Cast Conflux from the graveyard pitching Pact of Negation from your hand, tutor for conflux, research & development and 2 other pitchable cards.
5 till infinity) Cast Research, Casts Conflux, Cast Research, Cast Conflux... etc..
6) Cast Research for Tendrils of Agony, Conflux, and 2 pitchable cards
7) Cast Conflux for Tendrils and a pitchable card
8) Cast Tendrils of Agony
Pact of Negation is there to protect your combo. Gifts and Fact or Fiction give you 2 free confluxes under Yawgmoth's will. The cards thrown in your graveyard can be played by pitching the ones you got in your hand after resolving Yawgmoth's Will.
I'm thinking of replacing Cruel Ultimatum with Stand/Deliver. It serves as the card to tutor and pitches for blue. Deliver gives me an extra card to bounce with, which I can play before resolving Dream Halls.//
The only parts I don't like are the singleton stifles and cruel ultimatum, the pact of negations, but other than that it seems like what you would want out of a dream halls build. It is fairly fast, should win the turn that dream halls comes into play, or at least be pretty far ahead. The combo pieces (conflux, research) pitch to force, and with so much blue, back to basics comes to mind as well.
The draw engine bugs me a bit, though. If we are forced so far blue, where are all the draw spells?
However, the fact is most players will stop the first conflux and the dream halls, so tbh i guess last word isnt as good as pact, because pact can counter their counter, and your near garunteed a win next turn.
For the kill, I guess a Yawgmoth's Will route would be simplest. You want as little spots as possible devoted to the kill. However what about...
Conflux->2 Transguild Courier's, 1 Conflux, 1 Searing Wind, 1 Pact of Negation (for further protection). Pitch Curier ->Conflux->Searing Wind and a gold Pitch. For the kill you'd simply need 2 Searing Wind, and 3 pitch cards. I guess you could have a backup Wind, but it seems unnecesary because each time you can fetch Pact's which is ample protection. 5 Slots doesn't seem too bad (not counting the Conflux's themselves, however you need them to go off so you'll want to play as many as possible anyway).
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
I just threw this deck list together in MWS and tried some test hands. After a few go arounds, I dropped one Island for a third main deck Conflux, and it actually made a lot of difference. I never went off turn one, but did go off turn two (with plenty of combo protection) several times and never went off later than turn three. But that is just goldfishing. I'd have to do some actual play testing to see how well it truly works.
Also, I found that Cruel Ultimatum is really good in the main, because I put two Searing Wind in the sideboard just for fun, and the Ultimatum can be pitched to them. Dunno if it's a great choice, but it works (in theory...)
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