5 Color Planeswalkers

  • #1
    Been using this on Octgn lately against some friends. Seems very powerful, if a bit slow. Haven't played much vintage so this may just fail in the meta, tips?

    VegaTDM's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Mana
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Lotus Petal
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Opal
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    4x Mox Diamond
    1x Kor Haven
    1x Tolarian Academy
    1x Crystal Quarry
    1x Arcane Sanctum
    1x Crumbling Necropolis
    1x Jungle Shrine
    1x Savage Lands
    1x Seaside Citadel

    Creatures
    4x Axebane Guardian
    2x Æther Membrane
    1x Oona, Queen of the Fae

    Spells
    2x Cruel Ultimatum
    1x Vindicate
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Balance
    1x Burning Wish
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Regrowth
    1x Ponder
    1x Time Walk
    2x Ardent Plea

    Artifacts
    1x Nevinyrral's Disk
    1x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Trinisphere
    1x Door to Nothingness
    1x Defense Grid
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Mycosynth Lattice

    Planeswalkers
    1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
    1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    1x Ajani Vengeant
    1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1x Liliana Vess
    1x Venser, the Sojourner
    1x Chandra Nalaar
    1x Gideon Jura
    1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
    1x Karn Liberated
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1x Vraska the Unseen
    1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

    Decks:
    Standard

    BB Devotion B[MANA]B[/MANA]
    RR Big Red RR
    WW White Power WW
    UU Control UU

    Modern
    GB Tempo Infect BG
    BU Zombies UB

    Legacy
    xX Manaless Dredge xx

    Classic
    BB Extort BB

    Pauper
    GG Infect GG

    EDH
    GB Varolz, the Scar-Striped BG
    RRPurphoros, God of the Forge RRR
  • #2
    I don't mean to be harsh, but this is kind of a mess. Why so many wacky singletons? why is Ardent plea in there? you have all the typical restricted cards, but then you use Jungle Shrine and Kor Haven. Any combo deck will be essentially goldfishing against you. Any control deck will just shut you down. I think a good place to start would be to make a more solid manabase. City of brass and Gemstone mine trump those ETBtapped lands. maybe go down a more controlling route. You don't need all those wallkers, only a few of them are playable. Take the Trinisphere out. Probably things like Balance belong in the board, if they're even in your 75. Mycosynth lattice is out. I assume it was supposed to combo with darksteel forge to make your walkers indestructable, but the forge is mad expensive and in the board with no way to get it game1. I think the only Vintage-worthy walkers are JtMS, Tezz, maybe Lili, Karn and Tamiyo, and probably not Karn. But at any rate they probably don't all need to be together in the same deck. I think you need to ditch every creature you have in the deck. What is your game plan? Sorry if all of that came off as rude but I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done.
  • #3
    Never played much vintage before, threw in a bunch of powerful cards with the intent to see what works and what doesn't.

    Cards:
    Defenders to defend and give more mana, axebane is great for ramping up since it is any color. The red defenders to bounce their creatures back to their hand. More to make them not want to attack then anything. Oona is out of place I guess. Though i do have some cards with exalted to make my 1 attacker if I have one pack some more punch. Ardent plea has exalted for reasons above, cascade helps get out some more mana usually, though i can find a wish/tutor. Several ways to tutor with this deck, and wish to get even more cards. I dont really have any cards that cost less than 3 mana, but trinisphere could be replaced for a better card. The 3 color lands to help with mana. kor haven because why not, i will more than likely have the mana and it can save me a defender, meaning more mana. Or just damage. Looked at city of brass and mine, but since i need to be able to get all colors pretty much constantly i can really depend on a land that will expire or hurt me ever turn of the game. Balance and whatnot are just to help smooth things along before my win combo. Repeat board wipes that dont include my planeswalkers to have board control. mycosynth does some weird stuff, can give me mana with academy, or win me the game if i get Tezz Ult. Darksteel Forge Can combo for unkillable permantants, but can also help protect door to nothingness from removal, or diving top, but i will probably work out most of the artifacts and may not have enough to warrant them. Which will open up more options.


    General gameplan, hope I have on color cards at the start. Build up mana with lands, mox and axebane. If I get a tutor I usually get Lilana so I can use her to tutor repeatedly. Get planeswalkers out and try and win. Generally I have long turns with tons of options and lots of different ways to play out a turn. Having 5 planeswalkers out at once really gives for some great options. I won a game once after getting down to 2 life, tutor for liliana, tutor for karn. Defend until ult, restart and end up winning. The tutors can really turn the game.

    and you dont seem rude, i understand this is a big mess thrown together. What would be some good cards to add?
    Last edited by VegaTDM: 12/31/2012 3:37:14 AM
    Decks:
    Standard

    BB Devotion B[MANA]B[/MANA]
    RR Big Red RR
    WW White Power WW
    UU Control UU

    Modern
    GB Tempo Infect BG
    BU Zombies UB

    Legacy
    xX Manaless Dredge xx

    Classic
    BB Extort BB

    Pauper
    GG Infect GG

    EDH
    GB Varolz, the Scar-Striped BG
    RRPurphoros, God of the Forge RRR
  • #4
    Moved to Miscellaneous Decks.

    What is your actual win condition? Oona? If so there are far better and more reliable win conditions such as Time Vault or Blightsteel Colossus.

    Also, your mana base - cut all the ETB tapped lands, Kor Haven and some of the Mox Diamonds, and add City of Brass/Gemstone Mine, and perhaps even a Mox Opal.

    I hope that helps! Smile
    The Moosette

    Thanks to Gaea's Regent at Yavin IV Studios for the banner, and Feyd_Ruin for the awesome avatar! Grin

    Commander/EDH
    B Xiahou Dun, Cabal Horseman
    G [Primer] Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
    R Diaochan, Artful Beauty
    URG Animar, Soul of Elements
    UBG Damia, Sage of Stone
    W Akroma, Angel of Wrath


    Any problems, queries, suggestions? Feel free to visit my helpdesk!
  • #5
    Vise, my guess is he is wanting to be a casual vintage player. I build relaxed decks like this with my play group. That old school land destruction deck I posted a few months back is a good example but even it is probably more dangerous than this deck listed.

    I figure his deck is not meant to murder a player efficiently or quickly every game. tbh it looks more like a 60 card EDH deck to me :).

    I say all this assuming the author is aware there are decks out there that can pop him on turns 1-3 fairly consistently.
  • #6
    Quote from Jovialmadness
    Vise, my guess is he is wanting to be a casual vintage player. I build relaxed decks like this with my play group. That old school land destruction deck I posted a few months back is a good example but even it is probably more dangerous than this deck listed.

    I figure his deck is not meant to murder a player efficiently or quickly every game. tbh it looks more like a 60 card EDH deck to me :).

    I say all this assuming the author is aware there are decks out there that can pop him on turns 1-3 fairly consistently.


    Of course. Only played Modern and Standard until now. Trying to make it a little more competitive. As is it either explodes and I win, or it fails and I lose. And it does look like an EDH deck lol. I may make an EDH deck like this now that I think of it.


    Quote from BlackVise
    Moved to Miscellaneous Decks.

    What is your actual win condition? Oona? If so there are far better and more reliable win conditions such as Time Vault or Blightsteel Colossus.

    Also, your mana base - cut all the ETB tapped lands, Kor Haven and some of the Mox Diamonds, and add City of Brass/Gemstone Mine, and perhaps even a Mox Opal.

    I hope that helps! Smile


    I've got door to nothingness. Thinking on maybe adding an infinite turn combo or something. Time vault looks interesting.

    Mana base is wacky. makes for weird turn 3-4 stuff. I like the defenders though, helps more than i thought it would. I have mox opal, what good would removing mox diamond do?
    Decks:
    Standard

    BB Devotion B[MANA]B[/MANA]
    RR Big Red RR
    WW White Power WW
    UU Control UU

    Modern
    GB Tempo Infect BG
    BU Zombies UB

    Legacy
    xX Manaless Dredge xx

    Classic
    BB Extort BB

    Pauper
    GG Infect GG

    EDH
    GB Varolz, the Scar-Striped BG
    RRPurphoros, God of the Forge RRR
  • #7
    Quote from VegaTDM
    Mana base is wacky. makes for weird turn 3-4 stuff. I like the defenders though, helps more than i thought it would. I have mox opal, what good would removing mox diamond do?

    Mox Diamond requires a land in hand, so drawing them later in the game is often a dead draw - removing one or two would reduce the risk of that. Smile

    If you can make room for Time Vault I definitely recommend doing so. It would also give you a reason to add Tezzeret the Seeker. Wink
    The Moosette

    Thanks to Gaea's Regent at Yavin IV Studios for the banner, and Feyd_Ruin for the awesome avatar! Grin

    Commander/EDH
    B Xiahou Dun, Cabal Horseman
    G [Primer] Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
    R Diaochan, Artful Beauty
    URG Animar, Soul of Elements
    UBG Damia, Sage of Stone
    W Akroma, Angel of Wrath


    Any problems, queries, suggestions? Feel free to visit my helpdesk!
  • #8
    Quote from BlackVise
    Mox Diamond requires a land in hand, so drawing them later in the game is often a dead draw - removing one or two would reduce the risk of that. Smile

    If you can make room for Time Vault I definitely recommend doing so. It would also give you a reason to add Tezzeret the Seeker. Wink


    Ah I see, with removing some of the dead weigh I think i will have plenty of room for Time Vault & Tezz. And maybe some good support Artifacts.
    Decks:
    Standard

    BB Devotion B[MANA]B[/MANA]
    RR Big Red RR
    WW White Power WW
    UU Control UU

    Modern
    GB Tempo Infect BG
    BU Zombies UB

    Legacy
    xX Manaless Dredge xx

    Classic
    BB Extort BB

    Pauper
    GG Infect GG

    EDH
    GB Varolz, the Scar-Striped BG
    RRPurphoros, God of the Forge RRR
  • #9
    While I'm far from a Vintage expert (I have played Bazaar dredge in the past), I do have experience with 5 Color Super-friends aka Planeswalkers (mainly in EDHC), and this grabbed my attention. I'll give it a shot (assuming this is casual Vintage).

    First, What this deck does not do enough of what Eternal format Super-friend decks are infamous for: taking advantage of all the mass removal that skips planeswalkers because they came before Planeswalkers were invented. While I don't think that even in a casual format you could consistently pull off Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation (you may be able to pull off one of them as a one of, but good luck), Pernicious Deed clears the board while preserving your planeswalkers and is considerably cheap to put into motion. Within your deck, Nevinyrral's Disk a good fit, as is Balance.

    And you need to be getting effective answers from your deck, hence why I'd suggest Preordain (couldn't find room when editing my first draft, but I still like the card enough to mark its presence for future consideration), Brainstorm, and upping your Jace count.

    Also regarding the mana base, Reflecting Pool would be an effective color land as well, but also a risky one because if it's the only land or only accompanied by colorless sources (rulings checked: turns out Reflecting Pool can produce colorless if another land can produce colorless), then it's can't tap for anything. It's also why I'd probably suggest to keep Crystal Quarry in the deck as well.

    Lastly, you do need a secondary win condition. Since you're in five colors, almost anything will work. I'm going to suggest Sun Titan because I discovered just how much Sun Titan excels in Vintage when I played Bazaar Dredge (and I heard it works great with Time Vault). Here, because Armageddon isn't that great in Super-friends (only the bigger red versions I mentioned earlier because they hit a lot more), Sun Titan, in addition to recovery, can pull duty on the Land destruction aspect by recycling Strip Mine and Wasteland.

    So, my first draft to suggest to you.

    Mockingbird's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands: 18
    4 City of Brass
    2 Crystal Quarry
    4 Gemstone Mine
    3 Reflecting Pool
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures: 4
    2x Sun Titan
    2x Snapcaster Mage

    Artifacts: 10
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    2 Nevinyrral's Disk
    1 Sensei's Divining Top

    Enchantments: 3
    3 Pernicious Deed

    Instant: 3
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Vampiric Tutor

    Sorceries: 10
    1 Balance
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Regrowth
    1 Ponder
    1 Time Walk
    2 Vindicate
    1 Wrath of God
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    Planeswalkers: 12
    1 Chandra, the Firebrand
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Karn Liberated
    1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 Venser, the Sojourner
    1 Vraska the Unseen



    Granted this is far from finished (turns out it's pretty hard to edit down to 60, and I still didn't find room for Time Vault, although I suspect Karn or Nicol Bolas would bow out for that), but I hope that it at least gives you a direction that you would want to go. And hopefully more experienced Vintage players will be able to bounce off our ideas as well.
    Last edited by Mockingbird: 1/3/2013 9:32:48 PM
    "... Where is there most truth? The one prays in truth to God though he worships an idol; the other prays falsely to the true God, and hence worships in fact an idol." --Søren Kierkegaard (trans. David F. Swenson)
    Quote from Raggedjoe
    So I play tested this last night. It was... Weird. I felt like I was just playing a pile of terrible cards, but I kept winning.

    My reaction to Storm

    Legacy: 12-Post
    EDH:Teneb, the Land Harvester
    5CC P.P.C.
  • #10
    Updated decklist

    VegaTDM's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Mana
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Lotus Petal
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Opal
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Crystal Quarry
    4x City of Brass
    4x Gemstone Mine
    4x Reflecting Pool

    Creatures
    4x Axebane Guardian
    4x Snapcaster Mage

    Spells
    2x Cruel Ultimatum
    2x Vindicate
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Balance
    1x Burning Wish
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Regrowth
    1x Ponder
    1x Time Walk

    Artifacts
    1x Nevinyrral's Disk
    1x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Door to Nothingness
    1x Mindslaver
    1x Time Vault

    Planeswalkers
    1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
    1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    1x Ajani Vengeant
    1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1x Liliana Vess
    1x Venser, the Sojourner
    1x Chandra Nalaar
    1x Gideon Jura
    1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
    1x Karn Liberated
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1x Vraska the Unseen
    1x Tezzeret the Seeker



    I think I need to work on my sideboard some too. Couldn't really fit any more draw spells in the main deck. I just feel naked without tons of creatures too.
    Decks:
    Standard

    BB Devotion B[MANA]B[/MANA]
    RR Big Red RR
    WW White Power WW
    UU Control UU

    Modern
    GB Tempo Infect BG
    BU Zombies UB

    Legacy
    xX Manaless Dredge xx

    Classic
    BB Extort BB

    Pauper
    GG Infect GG

    EDH
    GB Varolz, the Scar-Striped BG
    RRPurphoros, God of the Forge RRR
  • #11
    Quote from VegaTDM
    I think I need to work on my sideboard some too. Couldn't really fit any more draw spells in the main deck. I just feel naked without tons of creatures too.


    If you feel naked without a bunch of creature cards, then I'm afraid that 5C Superfriends might not be the deck for you. One thing to remember is that many of the planewalkers that you would play make tokens of their own. And what superfriends lacks in creature cards it makes up for in removal. It's why I said play Pernicious Deed.

    Second, I want to go through some of your deck choices in a little more detail.

    Cruel Ultimatum: I don't like this card because it's so color intensive and expensive. Even with massive advantage you gain from it, I think it could be better served as a board wipe to kill all the creatures rather than just one or a tutor like Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal, which as a side note has no reason to be in your side board. That card is mained if you own it (same goes for Wrath of God or Damnation; one should be present in the mainboard even with Burning Wish).

    Door to Nothingness: Too mana intensive. I do not think that you can get Progenitus mana to use this card when you should be winning with your planewalkers. And even if you could get that sort of mana before you should be winning, I'd probably say just play Progenitus instead. He at least comes into play untapped.

    Mindslaver: Mindslaver is cute. Mindslaver can break games. Mindslaver can also be draw a card, play no lands, tap all lands, pass. If you really want the effect, I'm surprised you didn't opt for Sorin Markov. But what I think is that you need to focus more on removal. The standard planeswalker plan is planeswalker -> removal that skips planeswalker type -> win before opponent(s) recover. You could do that with Mindslaver, but you could do it more reliably with the Wrath of God or Damnation from your sideboard.

    Also one thing I have to check regularly with players, you do know that Burning Wish can only fetch Sorcery cards from outside the game/sideboard, don't you?

    About your planeswalkers:
    Lilana Vess: repeatable tutor, discard, and a living death-esque type effect are all nice together, but she is often not going to live long enough to put those effects to abuse. I recommend Liliana of the Veil because she is warps the game fast (and with Black Lotus, as soon as Turn 1). And the Snapcaster Mages help break the symmetry of her discard (granted if you feel you can't find a way to effectively do break the symmetry of her plus, then you shouldn't play her).

    Chandra Nalaar: Play Chandra, the Firebrand instead if you must play a Chandra. Her plus can hit small creatures as well as players, and there is a long list of cards you want to play when you use her Reverberate effect.

    Jace, the Mind Sculptor: while I won't push for multiples of many of the planewalkers that should be run in multiples, Jace is the exception. He is everything a deck like this needs. Draw, control, removal, and victory all rolled into one super-effective package.


    My suggestions that I'm going to push further:
    Pernicious Deed: It kills all artifacts, creatures, and Enchantments that are x or less. This is an important board wipe because since it specifies card types hit and planeswalkers are not on those types. And if you feel that you can hit mana to crack a Cruel Ultimatum or Door to Nothingness, then I'm going to push Decree of Annihilation and Obliterate after all because both of them skip planeswalkers as well and wreck opponent's.

    Wasteland/Strip Mine: Granted I understand if you just don't want to be "that guy that destroys lands," but throwing mana bases off helps Planeswalkers stabilize and keep opponents off balance. Also, you can kill your own lands if you want to make Balance really hurt.

    Sun Titan: I'm going to go through a list of cards that Sun Titan retrieves from your list, and then throw out some cards from mine that would be helpful:
    Black Lotus
    Lotus Petal
    All the Mox and your lands.
    All your creatures.
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Time Vault
    That's over a third of your deck.
    With my suggestions:
    Pernicious Deed
    Liliana of the Veil
    Crucible of Worlds
    Wasteland
    Strip Mine

    That makes about half the deck you can recur with Sun Titan. Granted I'm not pushing him as strongly as I'm insinuating, but he's a big creature that does big things. More important things than Axebane Guardian in my opinion.
    Last edited by Mockingbird: 1/3/2013 12:57:34 PM
    "... Where is there most truth? The one prays in truth to God though he worships an idol; the other prays falsely to the true God, and hence worships in fact an idol." --Søren Kierkegaard (trans. David F. Swenson)
    Quote from Raggedjoe
    So I play tested this last night. It was... Weird. I felt like I was just playing a pile of terrible cards, but I kept winning.

    My reaction to Storm

    Legacy: 12-Post
    EDH:Teneb, the Land Harvester
    5CC P.P.C.
  • #12
    Quote from Mockingbird
    If you feel naked without a bunch of creature cards, then I'm afraid that 5C Superfriends might not be the deck for you. One thing to remember is that many of the planewalkers that you would play make tokens of their own. And what superfriends lacks in creature cards it makes up for in removal. It's why I said play Pernicious Deed.

    Second, I want to go through some of your deck choices in a little more detail.

    Cruel Ultimatum: I don't like this card because it's so color intensive and expensive. Even with massive advantage you gain from it, I think it could be better served as a board wipe to kill all the creatures rather than just one or a tutor like Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal, which as a side note has no reason to be in your side board. That card is mained if you own it (same goes for Wrath of God or Damnation; one should be present in the mainboard even with Burning Wish).

    Door to Nothingness: Too mana intensive. I do not think that you can get Progenitus mana to use this card when you should be winning with your planewalkers. And even if you could get that sort of mana before you should be winning, I'd probably say just play Progenitus instead. He at least comes into play untapped.

    Mindslaver: Mindslaver is cute. Mindslaver can break games. Mindslaver can also be draw a card, play no lands, tap all lands, pass. If you really want the effect, I'm surprised you didn't opt for Sorin Markov. But what I think is that you need to focus more on removal. The standard planeswalker plan is planeswalker -> removal that skips planeswalker type -> win before opponent(s) recover. You could do that with Mindslaver, but you could do it more reliably with the Wrath of God or Damnation from your sideboard.

    Also one thing I have to check regularly with players, you do know that Burning Wish can only fetch Sorcery cards from outside the game/sideboard, don't you?

    About your planeswalkers:
    Lilana Vess: repeatable tutor, discard, and a living death-esque type effect are all nice together, but she is often not going to live long enough to put those effects to abuse. I recommend Liliana of the Veil because she is warps the game fast (and with Black Lotus, as soon as Turn 1). And the Snapcaster Mages help break the symmetry of her discard (granted if you can't find a way to effectively do that, then you shouldn't play her).

    Chandra Nalaar: Play Chandra, the Firebrand instead if you must play a Chandra. Her plus can hit small creatures as well as players, and there is a long list of cards you want to play when you use her Reverberate effect.

    Jace, the Mind Sculptor: while I won't push for multiples of many of the planewalkers that should be run in multiples, Jace is the exception. He is everything a deck like this needs. Draw, control, removal, and victory all rolled into one super-effective package.


    My suggestions that I'm going to push further:
    Pernicious Deed: It kills all artifacts, creatures, and Enchantments that are x or less. This is an important board wipe because since it specifies card types hit and planeswalkers are not on those types. And if you feel that you can hit mana to crack a Cruel Ultimatum or Door to Nothingness, then I'm going to push Decree of Annihilation and Obliterate after all because both of them skip planeswalkers as well and wreck opponent's.

    Wasteland/Strip Mine: Granted I understand if you just don't want to be "that guy that destroys lands," but throwing mana bases off helps Planeswalkers stabilize and keep opponents off balance. Also, you can kill your own lands if you want to make Balance really hurt.

    Sun Titan: I'm going to go through a list of cards that Sun Titan retrieves from your list, and then throw out some cards from mine that would be helpful:
    Black Lotus
    Lotus Petal
    All the Mox and your lands.
    All your creatures.
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Time Vault
    That's over a third of your deck.
    With my suggestions:
    Pernicious Deed
    Liliana of the Veil
    Crucible of Worlds
    Wasteland
    Strip Mine

    That makes about half the deck you can recur with Sun Titan. Granted I'm not pushing him as strongly as I'm insinuating, but he's a big creature that does big things. More important things than Axebane Guardian in my opinion.


    Thanks for the post, some really good info.

    When I learned mtg I played Mono G, so I am somewhat used to have tons of creatures to turn sideways and win. Trying to break this habit by making more diverse decks.

    Pernicious Deed is a good pick. will take out Mindslaver for it. Mindslaver felt awkward in the first place for some reason. Was literally the last card I added to the deck. Actually have never been able to use it in this deck before it gets removed.

    Cruel Ultimatum I really like this card, It may be expensive and semi niche. But when my opponent only has 1 creature I would rather play this then a board wipe. May add this to the sideboard to open up some more room.

    Door to Nothingness That's my alt win. Not always a good card to see. But it was won me a few games. It is a big target for removal though, so I see your point.

    Yes, I am aware burning wish can only fetch Sorceries. May need to add more some to the sideboard to really make it useful.

    Lilana Vess Use for most often for the tutor. Discard when I have plenty of draw spells. Her ult isn't as good in this deck, but it does help. I like Vess better in general, Veil more in mono black.

    I used Chandra Nalaar for the 10 damage ult. But I guess I would be using to reveb on the other one more often. Reveb Time walk? yes plz.

    Jace is easily one of the best cards in the deck. I've seen some people run 4 of. May add another if I can make room.

    Been meaning to add Sun titan.
    Decks:
    Standard

    BB Devotion B[MANA]B[/MANA]
    RR Big Red RR
    WW White Power WW
    UU Control UU

    Modern
    GB Tempo Infect BG
    BU Zombies UB

    Legacy
    xX Manaless Dredge xx

    Classic
    BB Extort BB

    Pauper
    GG Infect GG

    EDH
    GB Varolz, the Scar-Striped BG
    RRPurphoros, God of the Forge RRR
  • #13
    I did some Goldfishing with the following list and I thought that you'd be interested in my initial findings:

    Mockingbird's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands: 19
    4 City of Brass
    2 Crystal Quarry
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Reflecting Pool
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland

    Creatures: 7
    3x Sun Titan
    4x Snapcaster Mage

    Artifacts: 10
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    2 Nevinyrral's Disk
    1 Sensei's Divining Top

    Enchantments: 3
    3 Pernicious Deed

    Instant: 3
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Vampiric Tutor

    Sorceries: 10
    1 Balance
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Regrowth
    1 Ponder
    1 Time Walk
    2 Vindicate
    1 Wrath of God
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    Planeswalkers: 11
    1 Chandra, the Firebrand
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Karn Liberated
    1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 Venser, the Sojourner
    1 Vraska the Unseen



    Yes, I am aware that I'm running a 63 card deck, but I wanted to find the balance for creatures, and this was only a test after all.

    Chandra, the Firebrand: I'm going to start with her because she surprised me as my favorite planeswalker by far in the deck. Not even Jace, the Mind Sculptor (who did awesome on his own) could follow the insanity she set up. How so? It turns out Reverberate on a permanent is a lot stronger in Vintage, especially with Time Walk and Ancestral Recall both legal. The best value I got out of her was when I went Reverberate Time Walk, and then at the end of my second extra turn, I went Snapcaster Mage and Reverberate effect into Time Walk for a grand total of five turns in a row. Overall, if I don't stick with this deck, she has created the desire for me to try out UR Pyromancer's Ascension in Vintage... and I might even see if I can squeeze in a copy of her (I know ANT is stronger, but copying things not meant to be copied is just cheeky).

    Sun Titan: Sun Titan loves Vintage (I don't know if Vintage loves him though). Between him and Crucible of Worlds, Strip Mine is a hard lock card. Other cards that like Sun Titan include Black Lotus, Pernicious Deed, Gemstone Mine (by the way, I would hate this card if it weren't for Crucible or Sun Titan), Snapcaster Mage, and Crucible of Worlds itself. An interesting idea I had was to try Gifts Ungiven to abuse his graveyard mechanic while loading up on cards. Like Preordain though, I don't know where I'd fit it. I'm also having some balance issues with him though. Three is a great number, but at the same time, I have to get that mana... and I'm playing with an over 60 card deck at the moment.

    Overall though, I enjoy the strategy. Things I did note is that overextending is really easy with this deck, and in the long run we're going to have to work out better defenses. For example, yes I was able to set up for Chandra to let me take 5 turns in a row, but I didn't do nearly as much as I wanted to (namely hard lock or win) because I was basically mana flooded and removal flooded (turns out these cards can be dead).
    "... Where is there most truth? The one prays in truth to God though he worships an idol; the other prays falsely to the true God, and hence worships in fact an idol." --Søren Kierkegaard (trans. David F. Swenson)
    Quote from Raggedjoe
    So I play tested this last night. It was... Weird. I felt like I was just playing a pile of terrible cards, but I kept winning.

    My reaction to Storm

    Legacy: 12-Post
    EDH:Teneb, the Land Harvester
    5CC P.P.C.
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