This is a view of a Team GWS Deck based on tendrils and wrecking control. It has a horrible matchup vs stax, and I'm looking for what people think are acceptable sideboarding options, being that there are 15 slots open (cause the MD wrecks control).
There is an topic on it on http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26778.0, but since it's restricted to full members, I'd like to start a discussion here, where anyone can chime in on the deck's strengths and weaknesses.
Some SB slots I have thought about include Defense Grids 3-4, and 4x Duress or perhaps Cabal Therapy (depends on your knowledge of T1). Sacred Ground is also a possability, and maybe Energy Flux as well. Darkblast and Night of Souls Betrayal are also incredibly good vs. random 1/1's (Oath tokens, Bob, Welder, etc). Needle also crossed my mind. Any suggestions, thoughts, or comments? It seems like GWS has a deck that thouroughly trumps control, (hey, I live in New England) so help me beat Stax and opposing combo!
I havnt looked to deeply into that particular build (there are a number of tendrils decks out right at this moment, so its hard to test them all)
I do know that manplan has hit top 8 at the last two power tournies here in california...so if you want validation that it works, yes, apparently it works.
Although I have only been playing this particular build for a few weeks, I've done a good deal of testing with it and t8d at one of the California p9 tournies. Stax is indeed a terrible matchup, as your mana is very open to them, and chalice hurts, badly. To deal with random chalices I play 1 md Chain of Vapor, as there aren't enough chalices to justify more locally. If there were more of a presence of chalices and other such hate, I would reccomend mding Hurkyl's Recall, as it evades chalice for 1, which will happen. For the ocasional stax matchup I sideboard 3 Hurkyl's Recall and 2 Elvish Spirit Guide, relying on the time-honored tradition of waiting to recall at the opponents EOT and go off. Although this by no means allows stax to be a good matchup, it does give you a fighting chance. If you're worrying about stax in your meta, I'd consider a different deck, myself.
As for a sideboard, I've found that disruption in the form of Cabal Therapy is very strong, so far it's better than Duress, but I haven't decided for certain. Running a mini-toolbox of "trinkets" has worked wonders for me, with the Trinket Mages combining with the already large tutor count to find them early and often. For this I use 1-3 Tormod's Crypt, depending on metagame, 1 Pithing Needle, and sometimes 1 Engineered Explosives, again based on metagame. If combo is very prevalent I've found Stifle to be an excellent SB card, as it comes out of nowhere and basically seals the game for you. In a more drain-heavy meta Abeyance as a 1-2 of has worked well, throwing off your opponents gameplan dramatically, whether played pre-combo or even mid-combo. In my testing I've found Shattering Spree to be surprisingly sub-par in Man Plan, often not willing to invest the red mana. Other SB choices are very meta-dependant, and such cards as Balance, Duress, Seal of Cleansing, more bounce, more Elvish Spirit Guides, Darksteel Colossus, Sundering Titan, and surprisingly even Force of Will can fill the remaining slots.
Hope this helps, and this is an amazing deck, very explosive and consistant.
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It could try to get in Shattering Spree. That at least seems decent against stax.
In this deck, Rebuild or Hurkyl's Recall would be way better. Besides, they help with storm, so they're not gonna be dead when you want to go off.
My question is:
How is Swarm better than Duress? Furthermore, how is Defense Grid better than Duress?
Neither of these cards are proactive. Besides, with Control decks becoming Combo-Control, your best bet is to play Duress and try to combo off before them. Playing a Swarm or a Grid and allowing them an extra turn is not such a good plan. Control decks nowadays are as fast, if not faster, than most conventional combo decks.
Well, that is definatly a valid point, and the loss of proactive disruption is somewhat unfortunate. Defense Grip is rather poor, and I've cut it in favor of metagame slots, as it simply wasn't up to par. The advantages of this slower disruption are definatly large, however. Xantid Swarm allows you to win through any number of problematic spells, whereas Duress/Cabal Therapy don't always hit all their disruption. Also, the card advantage provided by Dark Confidant is incredible against control, allowing you many more "outs" around their counters. Last, by playing with men, you gain two advantages; the ability to play superior cards and a decreased dependancy on storm. The damage from Trinket Mage and/or Dark Confidant really helps this deck, allowing it to win easily off a much lower storm count. As for superior cards, the ability to play Culling the Weak is outstanding. It is essentially a Cabal Ritual that always has threshold as well as being easier to cast, and thereby is immesurably useful in general. All in all, from my testing the benefits of using slower disrutpion far outweigh the penalties, even though it is only relevant game 1, as there should be Duress and/or Cabal Therapy sideboard for control matchups.
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The advantages of this slower disruption are definatly large, however. Xantid Swarm allows you to win through any number of problematic spells, whereas Duress/Cabal Therapy don't always hit all their disruption.
True. But how often is your opponent going to have more counters than you have threats? Especially when going off. It's nearly impossibly for them to have 10+ counterspells when you go off. Duress picks the most threatning spell and you just go off.
Also, the card advantage provided by Dark Confidant is incredible against control, allowing you many more "outs" around their counters. Last, by playing with men, you gain two advantages; the ability to play superior cards and a decreased dependancy on storm.
Confidant is the obvious choice. Everyone and their mom have been running him in variants of Tendrils.
The damage from Trinket Mage and/or Dark Confidant really helps this deck, allowing it to win easily off a much lower storm count. As for superior cards, the ability to play Culling the Weak is outstanding. It is essentially a Cabal Ritual that always has threshold as well as being easier to cast, and thereby is immesurably useful in general. All in all, from my testing the benefits of using slower disrutpion far outweigh the penalties, even though it is only relevant game 1, as there should be Duress and/or Cabal Therapy sideboard for control matchups.
Confidant is the only creature Tendrils should be playing. The ability to play it turn one is crazy. Mage's 2U cost seems a little too high for what it does. How is Culling the Weak better than Mana Drain? The ability to counter a HUGE threat, which then enables you to seal the deal... Culling requires a creature, which isn't Combo's cup of tea.
With all this talk of beating control, you forgot Mind's Desire. This must have been a mistake. Desire just beats control, hands down. Duress and Desires just win the control matchup. Playing Drains helps too.
Drain TPS and even I.T. are examples that Tendrils based decks need to be faster. Playing Swarms main, along with Mages still makes no sense to me. Bob, on the other hand, is a no-brainer...
There is an topic on it on http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26778.0, but since it's restricted to full members, I'd like to start a discussion here, where anyone can chime in on the deck's strengths and weaknesses.
Some SB slots I have thought about include Defense Grids 3-4, and 4x Duress or perhaps Cabal Therapy (depends on your knowledge of T1). Sacred Ground is also a possability, and maybe Energy Flux as well. Darkblast and Night of Souls Betrayal are also incredibly good vs. random 1/1's (Oath tokens, Bob, Welder, etc). Needle also crossed my mind. Any suggestions, thoughts, or comments? It seems like GWS has a deck that thouroughly trumps control, (hey, I live in New England) so help me beat Stax and opposing combo!
-Nick
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
Mana
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
3 Culling the Weak
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Trinket Mage
3 Dark Confidant
Tutors
4 Grim Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
Misc.
2 Defense Grid
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Echoing Truth
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
4 Brainstorm
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I do know that manplan has hit top 8 at the last two power tournies here in california...so if you want validation that it works, yes, apparently it works.
Cant really comment on much more though
This deck really seems like it could use 1 or 2 Rebuilds main.
Given the deck's mana base, it almost seems like Engineered Explosives could work in the sideboard, especially since Trinket Mage can find it.
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As for a sideboard, I've found that disruption in the form of Cabal Therapy is very strong, so far it's better than Duress, but I haven't decided for certain. Running a mini-toolbox of "trinkets" has worked wonders for me, with the Trinket Mages combining with the already large tutor count to find them early and often. For this I use 1-3 Tormod's Crypt, depending on metagame, 1 Pithing Needle, and sometimes 1 Engineered Explosives, again based on metagame. If combo is very prevalent I've found Stifle to be an excellent SB card, as it comes out of nowhere and basically seals the game for you. In a more drain-heavy meta Abeyance as a 1-2 of has worked well, throwing off your opponents gameplan dramatically, whether played pre-combo or even mid-combo. In my testing I've found Shattering Spree to be surprisingly sub-par in Man Plan, often not willing to invest the red mana. Other SB choices are very meta-dependant, and such cards as Balance, Duress, Seal of Cleansing, more bounce, more Elvish Spirit Guides, Darksteel Colossus, Sundering Titan, and surprisingly even Force of Will can fill the remaining slots.
Hope this helps, and this is an amazing deck, very explosive and consistant.
Thanks to iloveatogs for the great Banner!
and Zoobamaphooza for the great Avatar!
In this deck, Rebuild or Hurkyl's Recall would be way better. Besides, they help with storm, so they're not gonna be dead when you want to go off.
My question is:
How is Swarm better than Duress? Furthermore, how is Defense Grid better than Duress?
Neither of these cards are proactive. Besides, with Control decks becoming Combo-Control, your best bet is to play Duress and try to combo off before them. Playing a Swarm or a Grid and allowing them an extra turn is not such a good plan. Control decks nowadays are as fast, if not faster, than most conventional combo decks.
Thanks to iloveatogs for the great Banner!
and Zoobamaphooza for the great Avatar!
True. But how often is your opponent going to have more counters than you have threats? Especially when going off. It's nearly impossibly for them to have 10+ counterspells when you go off. Duress picks the most threatning spell and you just go off.
Confidant is the obvious choice. Everyone and their mom have been running him in variants of Tendrils.
Confidant is the only creature Tendrils should be playing. The ability to play it turn one is crazy. Mage's 2U cost seems a little too high for what it does. How is Culling the Weak better than Mana Drain? The ability to counter a HUGE threat, which then enables you to seal the deal... Culling requires a creature, which isn't Combo's cup of tea.
With all this talk of beating control, you forgot Mind's Desire. This must have been a mistake. Desire just beats control, hands down. Duress and Desires just win the control matchup. Playing Drains helps too.
Drain TPS and even I.T. are examples that Tendrils based decks need to be faster. Playing Swarms main, along with Mages still makes no sense to me. Bob, on the other hand, is a no-brainer...