Bomberman recently placed 3rd and 8th at the Quebec Vintage Championships. This deck uses the Auriok Salvager+Black Lotus combo to create infinite mana.
3rd: Martin Bonneville Bomberman
4 Force of will 3 Brainstorm 3 Thirst for knowledge 4 Mana drain 1 Time walk 1 Fact or fiction 1 Ancestral recall 3 Aether vial 2 Phyrexian furnace 1 Engeneered explosive 2 Aether spellbomb 1 Pithing needle 4 Trinket mage 3 Medling mage 4 Auriokd salvagers
4 Flooded strand 4 Tundra 6 Island 1 Mox jet 1 Mox ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox emerald 1 Mox pearl 1 Sol ring 1 Black lotus 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Polluted delta
SB : 4 Sword to plowshare 1 Chalice of the void 2 Disenchant 1 Tormod’s crypt 2 Exalted angel 3 Energy flux 2 Veldaken shackles
8th: Lany Chabot-Laroche Bomberman the original
3 Aether spelbomb 1 Ancestral recall 2 Aura of silence 4 Auriok salvager 1 Black lotus 4 Brainstorm 1 Engineered explosive 1 Fact or fiction 4 Flooded strands 4 Force of will
5 Island 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Lion eye diamond 4 Mana drain 4 Meddling mage 1 Mox pearl 1 Mox sapphire 3 Phyrexian furnace 3 Plains 1 Sol ring 1 Strip mine 2 Swords to plowshares 1 Time walk 3 Trinket mage 4 Tundra
SB : 2 Disenchant 2 Energy flux 2 Sword to plowshare 2 Exalted angel 2 Back to basic 3 Brain freeze 2 Veldaken shackles
Here is the list I am currently running.
BomberMan:
4 Auriok Salvagers 4 Trinket Mage 4 Meddling Mage 1 Darksteel Colossus 1 Tinker 1 Mystical Tutor 4 Brainstorm 3 Thirst for Knowledge 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 1 Echoing Truth 1 Time Walk 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 1 Black Lotus 1 Lion’s Eye Diamond 1 Pyrite Spellbomb 1 Pithing Needle 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Phrexyain Furnace 2 AEther Spellbomb 4 Flooded Strand 4 Tundra 1 Volcanic Island 6 Island 1 Plains
Sideboard: 3 Serenity 3 STP 2 Seal of Cleansing 2 Vedalken Shackles 1 Old Man of the Sea 1 Decree of Justice 1 Exalted Angel 1 Chalice of the Void 1 Tormod’s Crypt
Some brief card explanations:
LED: This is a card I keep cutting and putting back. It gives you another combo piece, and can be used with Brainstorm and a Spellbomb to give that white mana to cast salvagers. It has won me several games but I am not sure that it is worth it.
Pyrite Spellbomb: This card is the win condition for the deck, get infinite mana then do infinite damage to your opponent. It is technically not necessary for the deck, because you can just draw your deck play all you creatures, time walk and win, holding a handful of counterspells. I keep it in there as a mercy kill.
Volcanic Island: This card is in the deck so I can use Pyrite Spellbomb to take out welders and other small creatures. Running this may be a little to techy and impractical.
Old Man of the Sea: This probably should be a Vedalken Shackles however I only have 2 Shackles and he is signed.
I think this deck may have a chance of competing because it is not just a combo deck, it is a control aggro combo deck. Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
The list I play does not run LOA for proxy reasons, I also did not find to to be all that useful. The first list wins by drawing it's deck with the spellbombs then playing all your creatures and attacking. I chose not to run that in my list for reasons I stated above.
I took the first list (this was via pm to magicplaya) and went -3 aether vial (since with infinite mana this is just silly, heh...I just dont like them here even though you can fetch on and stuff)
I don't like pyrite spellbomb, cause its usually a "win more" card. I do, however, think tinker colossus deserves to be in every blue vintage deck.
Exactly! Pyrite doesn't do anything much now. You ''just'' need to draw your deck, blow all permanents with cc 5 and less, play all your creatures, time walk and win. It is a really frequent misconception of the deck that it is primarly a combo deck. One of its greatest advantages is that it is a combo-control-aggro deck, and that sideboarding against it is pretty tricky, since you decrease your protection against the other ''types'' of the deck when doing so.
Many variations of the deck exist now in our province. There is:
-the original
-VialBomberStill: Commonly called VBS, the deck uses aether vials, standstills,mishra's factories and sometimes voidmage prodigies along with the deck's backbones. This deck normally has better matchups against control decks but are weaker against dragon and oath.
-Nextweek's bomberman: This type focuses mainly on the combo. I don't know a lot about this variation. I don't even know if it's the real name.
Although the deck hasn't proven a lot outside the province of Quebec and that it is metagamed proper to our...well, metagame, I'm sure it has a future in competitive decks everywhere.
From my experiences with the combo, which is generally only played as SalvagerOath out here in california, the spellbomb is a why not inclusion...while it is win more in a few cases, it does everything that aether spellbomb does and is a win now condition in most cases...it still cantrips into draw, it still destroys lots of stuff, and its better against welders and other small creatures on its own outside of the combo than aether spellbomb....
basically other than needing a red source to do the damage there is no reason to NOT run pyrite spellbomb that ive seen...
bomberman is an interesting deck that just hasnt broken through into the T1 meta in the US, its good but generally players in the NE US are playing CS and Gifts now which most players consider better than bomberman (certainly they put up more consistant high results than bomberman anyways)
In talking with magicplaya I feel that it is not a bad choice due in part to it NOT being played around here, nobody is going to be ready for it and its just going to win him a lot of games...most of the decks we had discussed were along those lines, and he seems to be having a great time with bomberman....
Personally in my meta I would never run bomberman, id hate running up against gifts and the solid stax players in our area that are just going to wreck it...personally id play gifts, especially after ravnica is legal with vault/fussilade in it rather than belcher/severance....YES it is THAT good...fricking crazy in testing so far man...
My possition is that the spellbomb is a WHY? inclusion. Its usually a win more card, and I would rather have something else 90% of the time. You already have enough ways to win. I don't think its worth vulrnerizing the mana base for a win-more card.
In my meta its a good choice. Of course, sui is a good choice in my meta. It basically consists of 10 players who take type 2 decks, bad type 2 decks at that, to type 1 and expect to win, and the occasional Ray (which makes things fun every once and while).
And Fussilade/Vault win is beter in gifts. Of course, now I have to go and get a time vault...
Btw, does anyone have any information about this Next Week stuff?
Running pyrite spellbomb to deal with welders and have a faster win condition only costs you probably
-1 Basic
+1 Volcanic
you can easily fetch out a volcanic if you need to kill a welder...its just one more option you have, and it doesnt really hurt, thats where my why not attitude comes in...maybe its just me being used to the Salvager Oath guys running that and not the bomberman setup for the win (although salvager oath runs just as much control and COULD win the same way, but it choses not to since it can just win now with pyrite and lotus if it needs to...)
SalvagerOath has won a few large events here on the west coast, so I have to assume the guys know what they are talking about (and LotusHead one of the original slapjack guys knows salvager decks better than anybody I know)
Do you feel that the 5 moxen that ae in the first list are really nesscary? I only run pearl and sapphire for proxy reasons, but also running full power did not really make sense to me. I have also been wondering about the 1 echoing truth I run in my build, is it really nesscary to have a bounce spell and the explosives. I found it helpful with mystical but I am not sure if it is a wasted slot. This is my first time playing with nameing cards (meddling mage, pithing needle) what do I name against the current top decks? On pyrite spellbomb I run it as a mercy kill and also so I don't have to spend 5 min. setting up and swinging with a bunch of creatures, it is just easier. It also keeps you from losing to random things like form of the dragon Once again here is my current list for refrence.
BomberMan:
4 Auriok Salvagers 4 Trinket Mage 4 Meddling Mage 1 Darksteel Colossus 1 Tinker 1 Mystical Tutor 4 Brainstorm 3 Thirst for Knowledge 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 1 Echoing Truth 1 Time Walk 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt 1 Black Lotus 1 Lion’s Eye Diamond 1 Pyrite Spellbomb 1 Pithing Needle 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Phrexyain Furnace 2 AEther Spellbomb 4 Flooded Strand 4 Tundra 1 Volcanic Island 6 Island 1 Plains
Sideboard: 3 Serenity 3 STP 2 Seal of Cleansing 2 Vedalken Shackles 1 Old Man of the Sea 1 Decree of Justice 1 Exalted Angel 1 Chalice of the Void 1 Tormod’s Crypt
you need to be able to accelerate as quickly as possible into draw and creatures, this generally means that running the maximum amount of moxen is a MUST, I suppose you can get away with less, but thats really less than optimal. You also dont ever mind accelerating into a very early Tinker/Collosus which becomes more and more difficult with less artifacts like moxen in there...basically you should run them if you can.
Echoing Truth is probably not needed here with both Aether Spellbomb and EE and Pyrite Spellbomb in the deck....SB maybe, but probably not (even though I love echoing truth..)
Needle can shut of welders and bazaars and wastelands and all sorts of juicy stuff really...the list is big and its a very situational question...same thing with meddling mage, but generally it shuts off big things like yawgmoths will and tinker, or things that ruin your day like crypts and bounce and stuff...
The reason why Bomberman is good here while not as good in US is that it doesn't have a good matchup against Stax. The decks that hurt it the most are decks that put a very early lock (Stax) or that outdraw it quickly (Gro-A-Tog). However, metagaming against those decks haven't been really experienced so there's place for innovation. However, Gifts has bad matchups against Bomberman because it just can't stop all the threats of Bomberman that hurt it a lot, especially meddling mages.
Although many different lists were made, the optimal one seems to be U/W. Including a pyrite spellbomb and a volcanic island for small threats (especially welders) isn't necessary. Most lists pack 4-7 answers against them in stp and aether spellbomb so it can really screw the welder player's tactic. Also, the deck is particularly dependant on its lands, so weakening the base even for one land is sub-optimal.
Why not 5 moxen then? It depends. Some lists run them, but they also run TFK and the like. However, as the deck is combo-control-aggro, you just need to look at your hand and play how it fits. It can go very aggro, very control, etc. It doesn't really need to speed up to the maximum possible.
For truth and needle, it's all a question of metagame, really. But generally, they're SB cards.
STP is so limited when in a deck that can conceivably recurr something like pyrite to deal with any number of welders....of course you can bounce a welder over and over again, but that doesnt help you when you dont have recursion...pyrite deals with welder for good, not for just 1 turn like aether...
The primary reason I would still at least attempt to include it is because it just wins now...without need for time walk in hand....since there are decks that will just win on their next turn regardless of how many creatures, bounce things etc that you might have in play...
the mana base is barely hurt at all...you still run 5 fetches and 5 basics...not really a problem there, heck that is more than most decks in the format run anyways...
heh, again this is all just off of impressions, I havnt tested this out (just cause the deck is really easy to disrupt, just like salvager oath) but that is what I would think...at least running tinker/collosus seems like a good idea to me....
You don't give them a next turn. You draw your deck, play walk, blow up all their permanents less than 5 mana, remove their yard from the game, play meddling mage naming all of their win conditions, colossus, bounce their remaining creatures, needle, and then, if they manage to surive you walk turn, you have and fist full of counterage.
The only creature you'll really kill is welder, which can easily be delt with with a pithing needle and/or a furnace.
And of course running tinker colossus is a good idea. tinker colossus is always a good idea. If you aren't running tinker colossus, you better be playing stax.
So if you take out the Pyrite, your ok? I like the Pyrite just because the fact that you have a back-up combo. People can remove your Time Walk and then what are you supposed to do? They can remove your other wins too. But, I'll keep on testing.
I am inclined to still keep the pyrite for welder kill and also it is just easier to combo out. I am cutting the echoing truth, I am not sure what to add perhaps an AEther Spellbomb? I really like MD needle becasue it can be searched out with trinket mage. Also if people could elaborate on what to name with mage. For instance vs. Gifts, do I name Gifts or yawg will, tinker etc. Thanks for the help so far.
For instance vs. Gifts, do I name Gifts or yawg will, tinker etc.
this is really tough to explain to people...it really really depends on the current game state. What else you have in hand, what is currently in play/has been played....
Even naming something like Mana Drain or Force of Will to let yourself win that turn can be very solid...this is a question of experience...its not just something we can tell you IMO.
magicplaya10: Even if you don't cast the walk after the combo, how often will a player win with nothing on the board, an opponent with his hand full of counters, a empty graveyard and a turn to do it? Never...unless you're facing a very bad player.
lunar: For welders, there are stp, spellbombs, furnaces and counters. It is not necessary to include another answer to welders when the deck has so much of them. The aether spellbomb is sure not a permanent answer, but it gives you a turn and that can be pretty good IMO. Anyway, when it is time to recur a pyrite spellbomb, you don't need to care about welders since you win the turn after with 100% chance or so. And of course, tinker/colossus is a good idea. It is now in most lists anyway, but because of the predominance of bomberman and the hate against it here, some won't put it, and I think we can understand them.
I can see we are never going to agree on this...StP though is awful for this deck for anti-welder hate...its pretty limited there since it is not tutorable in your deck and is not reusable like pyrite is...
Im willing to bet some of the reasons why Bomberman isnt currently and probably wont make any more of a splash in the US is due to what im starting to see as a limited view on the deck...people do it all the time, you get something you like and then get stuck in a cage of what you think the deck can and should do...there is no reason why pyrite couldnt be in the deck...having 1 volcanic island in the list is not weakening your mana base, and it is definatly improoving your MD ability to beat stax and workshop aggro...the fact that it just lets you win right now as opposed to the next turn is gravy.
The same thing happened with Oath...people got stuck in a blue based control version of the deck....it wasnt until GWS made it green white and ran chokes and stuff that it finally broke into another top 8...
believe me, im not trying to start an argument any more than we already have...its a disagreement in deck theory...
I understand your point, and of course I have no attention of arguing whatsoever. I just mean that the U/W version here is the most competitive. However, the US metagame is pretty different because we don't have a lot of workshop decks and people tend to tweak their decks a lot. In your area, I have no idea,and I'm sure you could metagame this deck properly.
...However, for the combo part, I still have the same opinion.
the combo part is just icing man...permanent recurable welder removal is the primary reason I would run 1 pyrite spellbomb, for the same reaons decks in the past have run Lava Dart, Death Spark and now Darkblast...the fact that the combo wins right away is just an extra thing that you are correct is probably not really needed....still, I like having the option...
I like having the option too. Although I do not run the Volcanic Island. I figure LED, Lotus, and Mox Ruby should be enough red sources to power the singleton. But I have seriously considered taking it out for Mystical Tutor. But in the end, I like having it. Plus the deck is called BOMBERMAN, whats the man with out the bomb?
LED or not LED; that is the question. So would you guys remove the LED for some other utility and for the fear of screwing up your hand in front of a counter or do you want to maximize your chances to do the combo?
Personally, I would keep it, since I think the danger of the first option is rare and that it wins you games.
And magicplaya10, it's THE bomberman: there are 2-4 bombs in the deck, they just don't need to be destructive!
In the sideboard, instead of Energy Flux, what about Rebuild? I mean, you build up a hand, EOT rebuild and then combo. Plus, I have seen many decks come back from Energy Flux. I have came back from 2 when playing River's Affinity.
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3rd: Martin Bonneville
Bomberman
4 Force of will
3 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for knowledge
4 Mana drain
1 Time walk
1 Fact or fiction
1 Ancestral recall
3 Aether vial
2 Phyrexian furnace
1 Engeneered explosive
2 Aether spellbomb
1 Pithing needle
4 Trinket mage
3 Medling mage
4 Auriokd salvagers
4 Flooded strand
4 Tundra
6 Island
1 Mox jet
1 Mox ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox emerald
1 Mox pearl
1 Sol ring
1 Black lotus
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Polluted delta
SB :
4 Sword to plowshare
1 Chalice of the void
2 Disenchant
1 Tormod’s crypt
2 Exalted angel
3 Energy flux
2 Veldaken shackles
8th: Lany Chabot-Laroche
Bomberman the original
3 Aether spelbomb
1 Ancestral recall
2 Aura of silence
4 Auriok salvager
1 Black lotus
4 Brainstorm
1 Engineered explosive
1 Fact or fiction
4 Flooded strands
4 Force of will
5 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Lion eye diamond
4 Mana drain
4 Meddling mage
1 Mox pearl
1 Mox sapphire
3 Phyrexian furnace
3 Plains
1 Sol ring
1 Strip mine
2 Swords to plowshares
1 Time walk
3 Trinket mage
4 Tundra
SB :
2 Disenchant
2 Energy flux
2 Sword to plowshare
2 Exalted angel
2 Back to basic
3 Brain freeze
2 Veldaken shackles
Here is the list I am currently running.
BomberMan:
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Meddling Mage
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Phrexyain Furnace
2 AEther Spellbomb
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
6 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Serenity
3 STP
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Old Man of the Sea
1 Decree of Justice
1 Exalted Angel
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Tormod’s Crypt
Some brief card explanations:
LED: This is a card I keep cutting and putting back. It gives you another combo piece, and can be used with Brainstorm and a Spellbomb to give that white mana to cast salvagers. It has won me several games but I am not sure that it is worth it.
Pyrite Spellbomb: This card is the win condition for the deck, get infinite mana then do infinite damage to your opponent. It is technically not necessary for the deck, because you can just draw your deck play all you creatures, time walk and win, holding a handful of counterspells. I keep it in there as a mercy kill.
Volcanic Island: This card is in the deck so I can use Pyrite Spellbomb to take out welders and other small creatures. Running this may be a little to techy and impractical.
Old Man of the Sea: This probably should be a Vedalken Shackles however I only have 2 Shackles and he is signed.
I think this deck may have a chance of competing because it is not just a combo deck, it is a control aggro combo deck. Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
and how does the first list win? it has no win condition other than beat down....
+1 Pyrite Spellbomb (cause why not...)
+1 Tinker
+1 DSC
just like you did, id also go -1 basic island +1 volcanic as well....nice to see that somebody else had the same ideas about the deck, heh...
In the place of vial #3 I added mystical tutor, becasue with tinker, its just plain good.
Exactly! Pyrite doesn't do anything much now. You ''just'' need to draw your deck, blow all permanents with cc 5 and less, play all your creatures, time walk and win. It is a really frequent misconception of the deck that it is primarly a combo deck. One of its greatest advantages is that it is a combo-control-aggro deck, and that sideboarding against it is pretty tricky, since you decrease your protection against the other ''types'' of the deck when doing so.
Many variations of the deck exist now in our province. There is:
-the original
-VialBomberStill: Commonly called VBS, the deck uses aether vials, standstills,mishra's factories and sometimes voidmage prodigies along with the deck's backbones. This deck normally has better matchups against control decks but are weaker against dragon and oath.
-Nextweek's bomberman: This type focuses mainly on the combo. I don't know a lot about this variation. I don't even know if it's the real name.
Although the deck hasn't proven a lot outside the province of Quebec and that it is metagamed proper to our...well, metagame, I'm sure it has a future in competitive decks everywhere.
basically other than needing a red source to do the damage there is no reason to NOT run pyrite spellbomb that ive seen...
bomberman is an interesting deck that just hasnt broken through into the T1 meta in the US, its good but generally players in the NE US are playing CS and Gifts now which most players consider better than bomberman (certainly they put up more consistant high results than bomberman anyways)
In talking with magicplaya I feel that it is not a bad choice due in part to it NOT being played around here, nobody is going to be ready for it and its just going to win him a lot of games...most of the decks we had discussed were along those lines, and he seems to be having a great time with bomberman....
Personally in my meta I would never run bomberman, id hate running up against gifts and the solid stax players in our area that are just going to wreck it...personally id play gifts, especially after ravnica is legal with vault/fussilade in it rather than belcher/severance....YES it is THAT good...fricking crazy in testing so far man...
In my meta its a good choice. Of course, sui is a good choice in my meta. It basically consists of 10 players who take type 2 decks, bad type 2 decks at that, to type 1 and expect to win, and the occasional Ray (which makes things fun every once and while).
And Fussilade/Vault win is beter in gifts. Of course, now I have to go and get a time vault...
Btw, does anyone have any information about this Next Week stuff?
-1 Basic
+1 Volcanic
you can easily fetch out a volcanic if you need to kill a welder...its just one more option you have, and it doesnt really hurt, thats where my why not attitude comes in...maybe its just me being used to the Salvager Oath guys running that and not the bomberman setup for the win (although salvager oath runs just as much control and COULD win the same way, but it choses not to since it can just win now with pyrite and lotus if it needs to...)
SalvagerOath has won a few large events here on the west coast, so I have to assume the guys know what they are talking about (and LotusHead one of the original slapjack guys knows salvager decks better than anybody I know)
BomberMan:
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Meddling Mage
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Phrexyain Furnace
2 AEther Spellbomb
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
6 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Serenity
3 STP
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Old Man of the Sea
1 Decree of Justice
1 Exalted Angel
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Tormod’s Crypt
Echoing Truth is probably not needed here with both Aether Spellbomb and EE and Pyrite Spellbomb in the deck....SB maybe, but probably not (even though I love echoing truth..)
Needle can shut of welders and bazaars and wastelands and all sorts of juicy stuff really...the list is big and its a very situational question...same thing with meddling mage, but generally it shuts off big things like yawgmoths will and tinker, or things that ruin your day like crypts and bounce and stuff...
Although many different lists were made, the optimal one seems to be U/W. Including a pyrite spellbomb and a volcanic island for small threats (especially welders) isn't necessary. Most lists pack 4-7 answers against them in stp and aether spellbomb so it can really screw the welder player's tactic. Also, the deck is particularly dependant on its lands, so weakening the base even for one land is sub-optimal.
Why not 5 moxen then? It depends. Some lists run them, but they also run TFK and the like. However, as the deck is combo-control-aggro, you just need to look at your hand and play how it fits. It can go very aggro, very control, etc. It doesn't really need to speed up to the maximum possible.
For truth and needle, it's all a question of metagame, really. But generally, they're SB cards.
The primary reason I would still at least attempt to include it is because it just wins now...without need for time walk in hand....since there are decks that will just win on their next turn regardless of how many creatures, bounce things etc that you might have in play...
the mana base is barely hurt at all...you still run 5 fetches and 5 basics...not really a problem there, heck that is more than most decks in the format run anyways...
heh, again this is all just off of impressions, I havnt tested this out (just cause the deck is really easy to disrupt, just like salvager oath) but that is what I would think...at least running tinker/collosus seems like a good idea to me....
The only creature you'll really kill is welder, which can easily be delt with with a pithing needle and/or a furnace.
And of course running tinker colossus is a good idea. tinker colossus is always a good idea. If you aren't running tinker colossus, you better be playing stax.
Oh, I almost forgot: Add Snow Covered Lands!
this is really tough to explain to people...it really really depends on the current game state. What else you have in hand, what is currently in play/has been played....
Even naming something like Mana Drain or Force of Will to let yourself win that turn can be very solid...this is a question of experience...its not just something we can tell you IMO.
lunar: For welders, there are stp, spellbombs, furnaces and counters. It is not necessary to include another answer to welders when the deck has so much of them. The aether spellbomb is sure not a permanent answer, but it gives you a turn and that can be pretty good IMO. Anyway, when it is time to recur a pyrite spellbomb, you don't need to care about welders since you win the turn after with 100% chance or so. And of course, tinker/colossus is a good idea. It is now in most lists anyway, but because of the predominance of bomberman and the hate against it here, some won't put it, and I think we can understand them.
Im willing to bet some of the reasons why Bomberman isnt currently and probably wont make any more of a splash in the US is due to what im starting to see as a limited view on the deck...people do it all the time, you get something you like and then get stuck in a cage of what you think the deck can and should do...there is no reason why pyrite couldnt be in the deck...having 1 volcanic island in the list is not weakening your mana base, and it is definatly improoving your MD ability to beat stax and workshop aggro...the fact that it just lets you win right now as opposed to the next turn is gravy.
The same thing happened with Oath...people got stuck in a blue based control version of the deck....it wasnt until GWS made it green white and ran chokes and stuff that it finally broke into another top 8...
believe me, im not trying to start an argument any more than we already have...its a disagreement in deck theory...
...However, for the combo part, I still have the same opinion.
LED or not LED; that is the question. So would you guys remove the LED for some other utility and for the fear of screwing up your hand in front of a counter or do you want to maximize your chances to do the combo?
Personally, I would keep it, since I think the danger of the first option is rare and that it wins you games.
And magicplaya10, it's THE bomberman: there are 2-4 bombs in the deck, they just don't need to be destructive!
In the sideboard, instead of Energy Flux, what about Rebuild? I mean, you build up a hand, EOT rebuild and then combo. Plus, I have seen many decks come back from Energy Flux. I have came back from 2 when playing River's Affinity.