This clearly dethrones Geist of Saint Traft as the fastest killing resilient 3-drop ever printed (not that Geist was Vintage playable), and in the right deck, is potentially a replacement for other 3+ mana threats like Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Tinker into Blightsteel Colossus. Casting Mentor - Mox - Time Walk is almost always game over, as is untapping with Mentor, then casting Mystical Tutor for Time Walk in the upkeep.
Of course, it can also brick occasionally and the white mana is a problem.
I've spectated a lot of games online where people were playing with it. It ends the game VERY quickly and insane with mox's. I'd say it's definitely good enough to be played.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
I can't see how this won't be a thing. Will it be the best thing? perhaps not, but it's undeniably powerful. You can cast it turn 2-3 and protect it and grind out a win with a handful of tokens, or cast it turn 2-3 and blow the hell up and end the game in short order. Plus its in a tribe that has already seen success in the format.
Lol, I know Modern and Vintage are two very different formats, but I still think it is funny that many people are saying Monastery Mentor isn't good enough for modern, and yet here in the Vintage thread people are praising it. #MentorsInAllFormats
Thats because Vintage is a different format... Is Lodestone Golem played in modern? What about Phyrexian Revoker? Forbidden Orchard? In vintage You can land this fast and it has enough cheap/free noncreature spells to trigger it's ability. The noncreature part is what really takes it over the edge as suddenly a third of your mana base triggers it's ability. When I saw this card my first thought was that it was vintage playable and my second was that people would try and jam it into Standard and Modern deck it has no business in. (Thanks Patrick Chapin and the rest of team SCG for all of my free wins at fnm for the next Month!)
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Lol, I know Modern and Vintage are two very different formats, but I still think it is funny that many people are saying Monastery Mentor isn't good enough for modern, and yet here in the Vintage thread people are praising it. #MentorsInAllFormats
Context is everything.
In Modern it has to put up with Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix, which are a 4 to 8-of in a significant proportion of the field. Finally Anger of the Gods and Wrath of God (plus a million clones, two of which can't be countered) are at least fringe playables and they totally whelp Mentor.
In Vintage, you do occasionally encounter Bolt or Swords, but there is literally no better feeling than using Mental Misstep on the opponent's Bolt in this situation.
I expect Mentor will largely replace JtMS in most Vintage decks that would run him, whereas in Modern, JtMS would (if legal) be the superior card.
Or to take a historical example - Yawgmoth's Will was never banned in Standard despite being a card that was, for a long time, considered Vintage's best finisher.
If Tarmogoyf were just spoiled in Fate Reforged, nobody would say it was good in Modern either. Modern is generally more conservative than Ann Coulter at a John Birch Society barbeque.
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If Tarmogoyf were just spoiled in Fate Reforged, nobody would say it was good in Modern either. Modern is generally more conservative than Ann Coulter at a John Birch Society barbeque.
I don't think people are wrong about Mentor being unspectacular in Modern.
It's not so great in a format where Lightning Bolt is legal and you can't protect it for free (technically you can with Mutagenic Growth but that card doesn't fit the strategies Mentor will be played in). For those reasons Geist is similar but superior in Modern. In Vintage however, there's free spells, including Moxen which you would play anyway, and Misstep/FoW/Misdirection which protect Mentor, and in addition 2W is a lot easier than 1WU in a format where Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are legal.
Turn 1 Fetchland ==> Tundra, Crypt, Mentor with either Misstep or FoW backup is a huge, huge play, almost as deadly as turn 1 Land, Lotus, JtMS. Whereas in Modern, turn 3 Mentor is 'meh', and turn 4 Mentor with backup is just OK.
...It's not so great in a format where Lightning Bolt is legal...
By God, I will never hear the end of Lightning Bolt. I think I'll just quit bringing a deck to Modern FNM and just bring four Lightning Bolts and demand my opponent automatically concede.
Nevertheless, plenty of creatures exist in Modern that die to Lightning Bolt, yet still get played because the turn your opponent DIDN'T HAVE ONE is the turn where the card rewards you in dividends. In BW Tokens, I've already tested Mentor and concluded that it's fitting right in. Between the hand disruption, the token spells, and Sorin, it literally adds value to every single non-land card in the deck besides the Tidehollow Scullers - another Bolt target that gets run anyway.
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Lol, I know Modern and Vintage are two very different formats, but I still think it is funny that many people are saying Monastery Mentor isn't good enough for modern, and yet here in the Vintage thread people are praising it. #MentorsInAllFormats
I know, I Lol'd so hard we I saw this thread after the discussion in the rumor mill. I think someone called the rumor mill the humor mill once, haha
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Standard:
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
I don't think this card will replace Jace the Mindscultpor in control lists. There is a tension in playing Mentor, and that is with your mana base and deck construction.
All the broken cards and enablers are spells. Monastery Mentor will definately be played in control decks due to the nature of the card. You need blue to chain the effects to get more tokens, but black doesn't offer you much of anything aside from tutors and the occasional targeted discard effect, and sometimes a sideboard. Decks that look to grind the long game are not going to play mentor, but decks that look to use Mentor in place of Tinker for Colossus will. A resolved mentor will usually end the game as fast as a blightsteel, but without the potential of a really dead card in hand.
I think this will push URW into a real thing, which will create other ripples, like increased hate for grave strategies, (since these boards will pack more RIP just due to sheer color density in a tournament), more REB (which will create more misstep wars, and shakier mana bases, which will let fish decks engage the tug or war for playability. I feel that null rod decks will become more popular, and that Shops has one more reason to close games out faster. I also feel that this pushes Pyromancer further out of the format, as they cannot profitably attack into or defend against a board of Mentor tokens. The extra colors also means that wasteland gains more value in decks, as color screw is one of the few ways to keep Mentor from making more tokens.
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Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Well I don't play Vintage but I like to keep up with all formats and it definitely looks like MM might be the real deal here...http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9549&d=254871&f=VI. 16 Mentors in the Top 8 here.
Yeah I posted this thread when the card had potential but wasn't proven. Now, it's a proven card although more in tempo and less in control than I expected.
I believe its good in vintage and just ok in standard. I played against it the other day as me and a group of friends play vintage once a month for various reasons: mostly cause of work. I sideboard 2x volcanic fallout, 1x reverence, and 1x Norn's Anne for small creature decks with swarm affects because of this I've locked my friends out of the game. My full sideboard list For vintage.
I run a Grixis control with vault key. It is good against dredge, jund type decks, but rough matchup is Mud because of the grindy game. Storm isn't bad for the mainboard is very good in having answers, its funny siding in Praetor'Praetor's grasp and taking the win condition in most decks; hint i run 4 copies of Snapcaster so it can get 2 cards and is devastating to decks that have 1 or 2 card win conditions.
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This clearly dethrones Geist of Saint Traft as the fastest killing resilient 3-drop ever printed (not that Geist was Vintage playable), and in the right deck, is potentially a replacement for other 3+ mana threats like Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Tinker into Blightsteel Colossus. Casting Mentor - Mox - Time Walk is almost always game over, as is untapping with Mentor, then casting Mystical Tutor for Time Walk in the upkeep.
Of course, it can also brick occasionally and the white mana is a problem.
What's your thoughts?
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Context is everything.
In Modern it has to put up with Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix, which are a 4 to 8-of in a significant proportion of the field. Finally Anger of the Gods and Wrath of God (plus a million clones, two of which can't be countered) are at least fringe playables and they totally whelp Mentor.
In Vintage, you do occasionally encounter Bolt or Swords, but there is literally no better feeling than using Mental Misstep on the opponent's Bolt in this situation.
I expect Mentor will largely replace JtMS in most Vintage decks that would run him, whereas in Modern, JtMS would (if legal) be the superior card.
Or to take a historical example - Yawgmoth's Will was never banned in Standard despite being a card that was, for a long time, considered Vintage's best finisher.
I don't think people are wrong about Mentor being unspectacular in Modern.
It's not so great in a format where Lightning Bolt is legal and you can't protect it for free (technically you can with Mutagenic Growth but that card doesn't fit the strategies Mentor will be played in). For those reasons Geist is similar but superior in Modern. In Vintage however, there's free spells, including Moxen which you would play anyway, and Misstep/FoW/Misdirection which protect Mentor, and in addition 2W is a lot easier than 1WU in a format where Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are legal.
Turn 1 Fetchland ==> Tundra, Crypt, Mentor with either Misstep or FoW backup is a huge, huge play, almost as deadly as turn 1 Land, Lotus, JtMS. Whereas in Modern, turn 3 Mentor is 'meh', and turn 4 Mentor with backup is just OK.
By God, I will never hear the end of Lightning Bolt. I think I'll just quit bringing a deck to Modern FNM and just bring four Lightning Bolts and demand my opponent automatically concede.
Nevertheless, plenty of creatures exist in Modern that die to Lightning Bolt, yet still get played because the turn your opponent DIDN'T HAVE ONE is the turn where the card rewards you in dividends. In BW Tokens, I've already tested Mentor and concluded that it's fitting right in. Between the hand disruption, the token spells, and Sorin, it literally adds value to every single non-land card in the deck besides the Tidehollow Scullers - another Bolt target that gets run anyway.
I know, I Lol'd so hard we I saw this thread after the discussion in the rumor mill. I think someone called the rumor mill the humor mill once, haha
N/A
Modern:
Grishoalbrand / Grixis Death's Shadow / Jeskai Control / UW Control
All the broken cards and enablers are spells. Monastery Mentor will definately be played in control decks due to the nature of the card. You need blue to chain the effects to get more tokens, but black doesn't offer you much of anything aside from tutors and the occasional targeted discard effect, and sometimes a sideboard. Decks that look to grind the long game are not going to play mentor, but decks that look to use Mentor in place of Tinker for Colossus will. A resolved mentor will usually end the game as fast as a blightsteel, but without the potential of a really dead card in hand.
I think this will push URW into a real thing, which will create other ripples, like increased hate for grave strategies, (since these boards will pack more RIP just due to sheer color density in a tournament), more REB (which will create more misstep wars, and shakier mana bases, which will let fish decks engage the tug or war for playability. I feel that null rod decks will become more popular, and that Shops has one more reason to close games out faster. I also feel that this pushes Pyromancer further out of the format, as they cannot profitably attack into or defend against a board of Mentor tokens. The extra colors also means that wasteland gains more value in decks, as color screw is one of the few ways to keep Mentor from making more tokens.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
2x Volcanic Fallout
1x Pithing Needle
1x Myre Battlesphere
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Steel Sabotage
1x Tormods Crypt
1x Reverence
1x Norn's Annex
1x Leyline of the void
1x Praetor's Grasp
1x Windfall
1x Graffdigger's Cage
I run a Grixis control with vault key. It is good against dredge, jund type decks, but rough matchup is Mud because of the grindy game. Storm isn't bad for the mainboard is very good in having answers, its funny siding in Praetor'Praetor's grasp and taking the win condition in most decks; hint i run 4 copies of Snapcaster so it can get 2 cards and is devastating to decks that have 1 or 2 card win conditions.