I feel like this card is very powerful and it's 1 card that I'm stressing about when working with my mana base. Strip Mine was put on the list because it's over-powered. Wasteland is very nearly as powerful in Vintage format yet you can play 4 copies in a deck. Do you see this card being restricted?
The variety of artifact mana and fetches can get around Wasteland, undercutting it's usefulness, it's still a solid card, but mana denial strategies in vintage are hard to implement.
Admittedly that's a perfect storm but you need to stack up the power of single target land destruction against some pretty ridiculous cards/turns. And simply playing a few basic lands in vintage decks (with fetches) can make you largely immune to wasteland. Not wholly but largely.
In Legacy, Wasteland is more powerful because there are fewer fast mana options, in Vintage not so much.
Ok, to wit, it makes sense that it can be got around. But, a good example would be Stone Rain, a very reasonable land destruction card. It costs the slot in your deck that the Wasteland card would take, and it costs 2R. Say you have a Sol Ring and Badlands in play. It takes a combo of 3 cards including the 1 in your hand to make the land destruction happen. With Wasteland, say you have 3 in your hand that's 3 lands of your opponents, assuming they are non-fetch non-basic, down the tubes. This is all theoretical, but how much play does it see anyway?!
Not happening because WotC thinks wasteland can be played around with basic lands. What Mondu said as well. Those lands with just 2 answers in an entire deck to them? Pretty disgusting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Not happening because WotC thinks wasteland can be played around with basic lands. What Mondu said as well. Those lands with just 2 answers in an entire deck to them? Pretty disgusting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
it cant be restricted, there are way too many lands in vintage that you have to have an answer for: bazaar, workshop, academy, & library; to name a few.
If Wasteland is the ONE card you are worrying about when building your manabase, chances are your deck is trying to do something OP and degenerate anyway, which is why Wasteland should be around to police the format.
Wasteland just polices specialty lands (which are themselves OP, there's a reason they are all banned in Legacy) and ambitious manabases. Strip Mine is restricted because it polices fair decks too, not just degenerate decks, which makes it rough for the guy just trying to play mono-swamps.
Strip mine is restricted because it kills any land. Not to mention running 8 total lands that blow up lands would make workshops pretty stupid especially with crucible of worlds that they would auto run 4 of alongside 4 waste 4 strip. But yeah wasteland is basically a good balancing tool so people can't just get away with running all the degenerate lands they want or rather that they can but wasteland answers them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Only if bazaar, workshop, and orchard also are restricted.
Exactly this. Without Wasteland these other very powerful lands would run rampant and there wouldn't be a reason to run any deck not running one of these or Library or Academy.
I'll give you another vantage point to think from:
WoTC openly proclaimed the vintage pillars a few years ago: Force of Will decks, Mana Drain decks, Dark Ritual Deck, Workshop Decks, and Bazaar of Baghdad Decks. These were the pillars they vowed to never get rid of. Of these 5 pillars, Workshops have gotten stronger, Rituals have gotten weaker (due to more efficient countermagic), Bazaar decks are diversifying, and Force of Will/ Mana Drain decks have suffered, due to there being more numberous efficient creatures than there are efficient countermagic for it. A lot of that has to do with there being more efficient hate bears, but a lot more has to do with more efficient lands like Cavern of Souls.
Cavern makes Force of Will a largely dead card, so much so that blue decks are using more creatures than ever to simply not lose to aggressive strategies. Wasteland in the appropriate deck shells, serves to combat these strategies for blue decks equipped to use it, while combatting some of the other problematic lands in the format, like Tolarian academy, forbidden orchard, workshops, and library of Alexandria (Landstill is such a deck, a are blue based fish decks, like Bug and Rug decks).
Without access to wasteland, blue can also call victim to the format's woes, just like any other strategy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Sure, wasteland can be played around by playing bad cards. So can a lot of the cards in this format. That doesn't make it a good idea to run basics, usually.
That said, I really don't think Wasteland should be restricted as long as Bazaar and Workshop exist.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
(Yes I know about Trinsphere, Lodestone Golem, Thorn of Amethyst and the like). They are primarily used in conjunction with these types of cards, but be advised that Wasteland does little to stop something like any Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Time Vault & Voltaic Key.
Admittedly that's a perfect storm but you need to stack up the power of single target land destruction against some pretty ridiculous cards/turns. And simply playing a few basic lands in vintage decks (with fetches) can make you largely immune to wasteland. Not wholly but largely.
In Legacy, Wasteland is more powerful because there are fewer fast mana options, in Vintage not so much.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
Currently Playing:
Retired
Currently Playing:
Retired
RGVintage DragonsRG
GVintage ElvesG
UGModern BiomancerUG
WJareth HighlanderW
Wasteland just polices specialty lands (which are themselves OP, there's a reason they are all banned in Legacy) and ambitious manabases. Strip Mine is restricted because it polices fair decks too, not just degenerate decks, which makes it rough for the guy just trying to play mono-swamps.
Currently Playing:
Retired
No, Strip Mine was originally restricted because Nether Void decks were oppressing the format.
It stayed restricted because they printed Wasteland the next year and a 52 card format wouldn't be fun for anyone.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Sure Strip Mine, Balance & other LD are out there, but they don't specifically target non-basics.
Until the format is being overrun by 5WastesAnd4Stifle.dec it won't be restricted.
WoTC openly proclaimed the vintage pillars a few years ago: Force of Will decks, Mana Drain decks, Dark Ritual Deck, Workshop Decks, and Bazaar of Baghdad Decks. These were the pillars they vowed to never get rid of. Of these 5 pillars, Workshops have gotten stronger, Rituals have gotten weaker (due to more efficient countermagic), Bazaar decks are diversifying, and Force of Will/ Mana Drain decks have suffered, due to there being more numberous efficient creatures than there are efficient countermagic for it. A lot of that has to do with there being more efficient hate bears, but a lot more has to do with more efficient lands like Cavern of Souls.
Cavern makes Force of Will a largely dead card, so much so that blue decks are using more creatures than ever to simply not lose to aggressive strategies. Wasteland in the appropriate deck shells, serves to combat these strategies for blue decks equipped to use it, while combatting some of the other problematic lands in the format, like Tolarian academy, forbidden orchard, workshops, and library of Alexandria (Landstill is such a deck, a are blue based fish decks, like Bug and Rug decks).
Without access to wasteland, blue can also call victim to the format's woes, just like any other strategy.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
That said, I really don't think Wasteland should be restricted as long as Bazaar and Workshop exist.