For a control deck, specificially Grixis Control, I was looking for some more win conditions. So far I have Keranos and JTMS. I'm curious about Lone Revenant and Master of Waves. Are either of these viable? Are there any other good win conditions I missed?
Keranos is pretty bad in vintage. Costs far too much. Tezzeret the seeker is way better because the turn after tezz resolves you win (tutor for time vault, take infinite turns, win with tezz ultimate eventually since you'll get enough artifacts to bash with or you can win with jace ultimate into jace ultimate/deck opponent.)
Tinker into blightsteel is another control finisher of choice typically. Very compact and only adds 1 dead card to your maindeck (tinker robot usually can't be cast at 12 mana but it sometimes does happen.)
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Tinker into blightsteel is another control finisher of choice typically. Very compact and only adds 1 dead card to your maindeck (tinker robot usually can't be cast at 12 mana but it sometimes does happen.)
12 mana accidents happen more often than you might think if you run most of the broken fast mana. Especially if you also run Mana Drain.
I'm still not that much of a fan of Blightsteel because he's not that hard to kill. Trading Tinker and a Mox for the opponent's Swords to Plowshares and 11 life is a bad deal.
Tinker into blightsteel is another control finisher of choice typically. Very compact and only adds 1 dead card to your maindeck (tinker robot usually can't be cast at 12 mana but it sometimes does happen.)
12 mana accidents happen more often than you might think if you run most of the broken fast mana. Especially if you also run Mana Drain.
I'm still not that much of a fan of Blightsteel because he's not that hard to kill. Trading Tinker and a Mox for the opponent's Swords to Plowshares and 11 life is a bad deal.
Usually if you're going for the kill, you would want to do it with counterspell backup no matter what the kill condition is. Blightsteel is impervious to most removal spells and kills in one turn, and for three mana. You don't get that kind of deal with most other wincons.
Usually if you're going for the kill, you would want to do it with counterspell backup no matter what the kill condition is. Blightsteel is impervious to most removal spells and kills in one turn, and for three mana. You don't get that kind of deal with most other wincons.
I find people survive Blightsteel more than I'd like, and I prefer to tinker for the silly blue artifact creature (can't remember the name but it has Shroud and is enormous).
As for the rest of the deck - Time Vault and Voltaic Key and/or Tezzeret is gold. It will let you draw a Mind Sculptor, ultimate it twice, then pass the turn (or Ancestral the opponent) with multiple counterspells in hand.
Plus, if you draw one half of Time Vault and Key, Tinker wins the game. If you draw Tezzeret on his own and can make him stick, he wins the game after your opponent has one turn. Just remember to tinker away your Mana Crypt if you have one...
Edit: Not really suggesting Keranos, but he's better than he seems as he is so damn hard to remove if he resolves. Unless you do something stupid and make him a creature...
Usually if you're going for the kill, you would want to do it with counterspell backup no matter what the kill condition is. Blightsteel is impervious to most removal spells and kills in one turn, and for three mana. You don't get that kind of deal with most other wincons.
I find people survive Blightsteel more than I'd like, and I prefer to tinker for the silly blue artifact creature (can't remember the name but it has Shroud and is enormous).
Tendrils of Agony is sometimes the kill of choice even in non-storm builds as you can often cast 5 spells in a turn and simply kill someone with 10 damage if they have taken other damage via shocks, pains, Pyromancer tokens, Bob etc.
Tendrils of Agony is sometimes the kill of choice even in non-storm builds as you can often cast 5 spells in a turn and simply kill someone with 10 damage if they have taken other damage via shocks, pains, Pyromancer tokens, Bob etc.
I firmly believe most decks that can manage the mana should have one Tendrils to Burning Wish for to use in this exact situation.
It isn't rare to make the following play or something similar in the fairly late game (in my UBRwg control deck, where the only non-Grixis cards are sideboard Balance and Regrowth as Wish targets):
Me: Ancestral Recall targetting myself
Opponent: Mental Misstep
Me: OK, that resolves (grin looking at the Yawgmoth's Will in my hand).
Me: Demonic Tutor for Black Lotus. Cast Lotus. Crack it.
Me: Yawgmoth's Will (storm = 5). Flashback Ancestral.
Opponent: another Misstep (S=7).
Me: Lotus, crack, Demonic Tutor for Burning Wish, Wish for Tendrils, Tendrils for 22.
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Tinker into blightsteel is another control finisher of choice typically. Very compact and only adds 1 dead card to your maindeck (tinker robot usually can't be cast at 12 mana but it sometimes does happen.)
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12 mana accidents happen more often than you might think if you run most of the broken fast mana. Especially if you also run Mana Drain.
I'm still not that much of a fan of Blightsteel because he's not that hard to kill. Trading Tinker and a Mox for the opponent's Swords to Plowshares and 11 life is a bad deal.
Usually if you're going for the kill, you would want to do it with counterspell backup no matter what the kill condition is. Blightsteel is impervious to most removal spells and kills in one turn, and for three mana. You don't get that kind of deal with most other wincons.
I find people survive Blightsteel more than I'd like, and I prefer to tinker for the silly blue artifact creature (can't remember the name but it has Shroud and is enormous).
As for the rest of the deck - Time Vault and Voltaic Key and/or Tezzeret is gold. It will let you draw a Mind Sculptor, ultimate it twice, then pass the turn (or Ancestral the opponent) with multiple counterspells in hand.
Plus, if you draw one half of Time Vault and Key, Tinker wins the game. If you draw Tezzeret on his own and can make him stick, he wins the game after your opponent has one turn. Just remember to tinker away your Mana Crypt if you have one...
Edit: Not really suggesting Keranos, but he's better than he seems as he is so damn hard to remove if he resolves. Unless you do something stupid and make him a creature...
Inkwell Leviathan, I'm assuming.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
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I firmly believe most decks that can manage the mana should have one Tendrils to Burning Wish for to use in this exact situation.
It isn't rare to make the following play or something similar in the fairly late game (in my UBRwg control deck, where the only non-Grixis cards are sideboard Balance and Regrowth as Wish targets):
Me: Ancestral Recall targetting myself
Opponent: Mental Misstep
Me: OK, that resolves (grin looking at the Yawgmoth's Will in my hand).
Me: Demonic Tutor for Black Lotus. Cast Lotus. Crack it.
Me: Yawgmoth's Will (storm = 5). Flashback Ancestral.
Opponent: another Misstep (S=7).
Me: Lotus, crack, Demonic Tutor for Burning Wish, Wish for Tendrils, Tendrils for 22.