A crazy work schedule has kept me from testing with teammates, but conversing with a few of the guys has brought up an interesting point if view. Lately, Vintage has become more creature-rich than at any point in its history, which has slowed the metagame down significantly. Also, Vintage is the most diverse I've ever remembered it being. With the level of power creep being what it has been until this last block, and the abundance and diversity of efficient creature effects existing more than ever before, would it be possible to create a competitive Survival list for Vintage?
In my opinion, if we are not there, we are on the cusp. Survival Strategies have these relevant options available to it:
Free creatures - (basking root walla)
Free Graveyard removal - (faerie macabre)
Free lotus Petals - (Elvish Spirit Guide)
One mana Disenchants - (wispmare evoke cost)
One mana shatters - (ingot chewer)
One mana removal spell - (discarded Big Game Hunter)
One mana combat prevention - (spore frog)
One mana Wasteland protection - (Deathrite Shaman, Quirion ranger)
Tutorable Pithing Needle - (Phyrexian Revoker)
Cheap discard effects - (mesmeric fiend)
Extra copies of Survival - (Fauna Shaman)
Protection From Counterspells - (Aether Vial, Veshing Shusher)
TPS containment - (Spirit of the Labyrinth)
Tutorable Reanimation Spell - (Loyal Retainers)
When you have all this, and a means to protect your graveyard and keep recycling your threats (Emrakul shuffling Graveyard back in), you have the foundation of a very powerful deck.
Questions did come up over this archetype.
Why would someone play this over Oath? Oath's power is limited to deck construction. You need to ru. Fewer creatures to maximize potential. Survival strategies aren't affected by the same deck construction rules but can run similar threats.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
If the Shops matchup needs more work, I can bring in two Welders into the board to do the "revolving door" play with them and Gorilla Shaman
1) use Gorrilla Shaman to smash a mox
2) weld out an artifact for the mox
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2
If I go that route, then I'd swap out Elesh Norn for Sphinx of the Steel Wind to shore up the fish match-up and get an edge on Shops... There are other ways to tool the board too. This is a rough list, but it looks promising.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
Abrubt decay does nail most of the pieces of this deck, but the idea is that there are too many threats for 4x abrupt decay to deal with efficiently. Between 8x survival effects, and the ability to tutor for discard, I think it would take more than the surface view of "Survival<Abrupt Decay" because of the deck's heavu discard package combined with Emrakul's ability to reshuffle in your threats at will. How exactly do you see abrupt decay decks fighting through the disruption?
This Survival deck is not "applejacks" This deck does not use mana elves to play its threats. The threats are wither cheated into play, or bypass the stack completely. That helps take counterspells out of the equation. Even though both decks run 4x survival, their methods for gaining the tempo and utlizing their namesake tutor are completely different. The above deck functions more like a "Keeper" list that utilizes creatures instead of spells. The list I introduced in the second post functions more like a reanimator list with a heavy discard component, which is to use discard to keep the opponent off-balance, then cheat your threats into play. The difference is that it cheats smaller threats into play as well.
Years ago, I had tried to utilize Orcish Lumberjack into a Survival Shell. The problem with it, is that while you gain a lotus for every forest you burn out, over the course of many turns, the lumberjack actually puts you BEHIND in mana, to the point where the dazes and mana leaks you fight on turns 1 and 2 are still as effective against you on turn 7 and 8. That just wasn't acceptable to me. Shops have since gotten brutally more efficient, further punishing this strategy.
I would like to test this deck against burning oath, and look forward to the opportunity to do just that next weekend.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I've been able to get quite some testing in with this deck.
Vs. MonoRed Shops - by far the hardest shop variant to play against. The maindeck null rods really slow down the deck, but as it poses no immediate threats, it is possible to bleed them
Out of recursive threats. You are the control deck in this match-up and have inevitability. Faerie Macabre put in a lot of work. In one game, I was able to remove all strip mines and barbarian rings to remove all the wincons from their deck. Also, active vials are difficult for smokestack decks to deal with.
Forgemaster Shops - vialing in dryad arbor into double therapy allowed the deck to proactively strip forgemasters and bombs for metalworker. The match-up fluctuated with draws, some draws won't get you there, and there are other draws that this shop deck cannot beat. Your tinker target is better than theirs, but you get to force them to tap down forgemaster to go for it.
Expresso - played the match-up but due to opponent'a lack of proficiency, I'll run another testing session before posting the results.
Cagebreaker Dredge - another hand-dependent match-up. Game 1 isn't as bad as one thinks, as you have cabal therapies to kill your creatures as well as vialing-in blockers and creatures that can hit the yard at will. Oftentimes, opening on maindeck faerie macabre will slow then down long enough for vial to get the necessary counters to keep dredge in check. Their hate basically evens out our hate, making games. 2/3 about 50/50. Fatestitchers builds are dramatically faster and make it unfair game 1.
tPS - this deck gets rolled hard to TPS. Didn't get opportunity to play boarded games, but TPS went 6-0 against this deck in game 1s.
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Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I think caleb durward from CFB did an artical and video serise with a vintage survival deck (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-godlike-tech/ turns out he did)
I find it interesting that you have no vengevines, as that seems to be one of the best reasons to play the deck, having hasty 4/3 usally beats most decks.
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In my opinion, if we are not there, we are on the cusp. Survival Strategies have these relevant options available to it:
Free creatures - (basking root walla)
Free Graveyard removal - (faerie macabre)
Free lotus Petals - (Elvish Spirit Guide)
One mana Disenchants - (wispmare evoke cost)
One mana shatters - (ingot chewer)
One mana removal spell - (discarded Big Game Hunter)
One mana combat prevention - (spore frog)
One mana Wasteland protection - (Deathrite Shaman, Quirion ranger)
Tutorable Pithing Needle - (Phyrexian Revoker)
Cheap discard effects - (mesmeric fiend)
Extra copies of Survival - (Fauna Shaman)
Protection From Counterspells - (Aether Vial, Veshing Shusher)
TPS containment - (Spirit of the Labyrinth)
Tutorable Reanimation Spell - (Loyal Retainers)
When you have all this, and a means to protect your graveyard and keep recycling your threats (Emrakul shuffling Graveyard back in), you have the foundation of a very powerful deck.
Questions did come up over this archetype.
Why would someone play this over Oath? Oath's power is limited to deck construction. You need to ru. Fewer creatures to maximize potential. Survival strategies aren't affected by the same deck construction rules but can run similar threats.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Vintage Survival
Lands - 20
7 Fetches
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Dryad Arbor
Artifact Excel- 6
1 Black Lotus
5 Mox
Engine - 12
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Aether Vial
Utility- 23
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Wispmare
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Emrakul, the Eons Torn
1 Anger
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Spore Frog
1 Gorilla Shaman
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Greater Gargadon
Sideboard:
3 Faerie Maabre
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Dryad Militant
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Gaddock Teeg
If the Shops matchup needs more work, I can bring in two Welders into the board to do the "revolving door" play with them and Gorilla Shaman
1) use Gorrilla Shaman to smash a mox
2) weld out an artifact for the mox
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2
If I go that route, then I'd swap out Elesh Norn for Sphinx of the Steel Wind to shore up the fish match-up and get an edge on Shops... There are other ways to tool the board too. This is a rough list, but it looks promising.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Abrubt decay does nail most of the pieces of this deck, but the idea is that there are too many threats for 4x abrupt decay to deal with efficiently. Between 8x survival effects, and the ability to tutor for discard, I think it would take more than the surface view of "Survival<Abrupt Decay" because of the deck's heavu discard package combined with Emrakul's ability to reshuffle in your threats at will. How exactly do you see abrupt decay decks fighting through the disruption?
This is the deck you're talking about
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Trygon Predator
1 Hammer Mage
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Kalonian Hydra
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Orcish Lumberjack
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Null Rod
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
2 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
2 Forest
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Trygon Predator
1 Null Rod
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Caldera Hellion
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gilded Drake
This Survival deck is not "applejacks" This deck does not use mana elves to play its threats. The threats are wither cheated into play, or bypass the stack completely. That helps take counterspells out of the equation. Even though both decks run 4x survival, their methods for gaining the tempo and utlizing their namesake tutor are completely different. The above deck functions more like a "Keeper" list that utilizes creatures instead of spells. The list I introduced in the second post functions more like a reanimator list with a heavy discard component, which is to use discard to keep the opponent off-balance, then cheat your threats into play. The difference is that it cheats smaller threats into play as well.
Years ago, I had tried to utilize Orcish Lumberjack into a Survival Shell. The problem with it, is that while you gain a lotus for every forest you burn out, over the course of many turns, the lumberjack actually puts you BEHIND in mana, to the point where the dazes and mana leaks you fight on turns 1 and 2 are still as effective against you on turn 7 and 8. That just wasn't acceptable to me. Shops have since gotten brutally more efficient, further punishing this strategy.
I would like to test this deck against burning oath, and look forward to the opportunity to do just that next weekend.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Vs. MonoRed Shops - by far the hardest shop variant to play against. The maindeck null rods really slow down the deck, but as it poses no immediate threats, it is possible to bleed them
Out of recursive threats. You are the control deck in this match-up and have inevitability. Faerie Macabre put in a lot of work. In one game, I was able to remove all strip mines and barbarian rings to remove all the wincons from their deck. Also, active vials are difficult for smokestack decks to deal with.
Forgemaster Shops - vialing in dryad arbor into double therapy allowed the deck to proactively strip forgemasters and bombs for metalworker. The match-up fluctuated with draws, some draws won't get you there, and there are other draws that this shop deck cannot beat. Your tinker target is better than theirs, but you get to force them to tap down forgemaster to go for it.
Expresso - played the match-up but due to opponent'a lack of proficiency, I'll run another testing session before posting the results.
Cagebreaker Dredge - another hand-dependent match-up. Game 1 isn't as bad as one thinks, as you have cabal therapies to kill your creatures as well as vialing-in blockers and creatures that can hit the yard at will. Oftentimes, opening on maindeck faerie macabre will slow then down long enough for vial to get the necessary counters to keep dredge in check. Their hate basically evens out our hate, making games. 2/3 about 50/50. Fatestitchers builds are dramatically faster and make it unfair game 1.
tPS - this deck gets rolled hard to TPS. Didn't get opportunity to play boarded games, but TPS went 6-0 against this deck in game 1s.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
I find it interesting that you have no vengevines, as that seems to be one of the best reasons to play the deck, having hasty 4/3 usally beats most decks.