I have recently acquired a set of Bazaars, and sleeved up Dredge because I had pretty much all the cards from Legacy already. I saw the deck in action a while back and was mesmerized by its raw power. There is 0 Vintage scene locally, but I play Legacy with people weekly. Some of the guys had Vintage staples that they turned into more Legacy stuff recently, but I feel there is interest in Vintage in the group.
The sheer power of Dredge drew me to build another deck, so that when I have people over we can have a Vintage duel. I looked at the stuff I owned, and saw this as my next project... What about a "Duel Deck": Bazaars vs Shops? I traded some Reserve list cards that were collecting dust or cards I had picked up for Commander and grabbed a set of Shops. I built Kuldotha MUD with Metalworkers. Mana Crypt/Sol Ring/Mana Vault and all the lands (Wastelands, Tombs, City of Traitors) are in, but I don't own Power. I don't think I will ever take the plunge, as I would have to trade away Legacy staples for them, and quite a lot of them. Vintage for me is a curiosity so far, nothing more.
Here's my problem: Do you feel like Moxen are necessary in MUD? Can the deck compete without? When I looked at games from the recent BoM, turn 1 Metalworker off Shop was a very solid and frequent play, one my deck can do quite consistently even unpowered.
One last thing, and because all good things come in threes, I put together an Oath deck (Golden Gun version, Emrakul/Blightsteel) with Vault/Key. The deck does play a boatload of counters, black tutors, Thoughtseizes, Mana Crypt/Vault/Sol Ring, but again, no power.
Which deck is most dependant on Power, Oath or MUD? As it is, Oath does feel like the weakest of the 3 lists... But I have yet to test much with the decks. Thanks for your input!
I have recently acquired a set of Bazaars, and sleeved up Dredge because I had pretty much all the cards from Legacy already. I saw the deck in action a while back and was mesmerized by its raw power. There is 0 Vintage scene locally, but I play Legacy with people weekly. Some of the guys had Vintage staples that they turned into more Legacy stuff recently, but I feel there is interest in Vintage in the group.
The sheer power of Dredge drew me to build another deck, so that when I have people over we can have a Vintage duel. I looked at the stuff I owned, and saw this as my next project... What about a "Duel Deck": Bazaars vs Shops? I traded some Reserve list cards that were collecting dust or cards I had picked up for Commander and grabbed a set of Shops. I built Kuldotha MUD with Metalworkers. Mana Crypt/Sol Ring/Mana Vault and all the lands (Wastelands, Tombs, City of Traitors) are in, but I don't own Power. I don't think I will ever take the plunge, as I would have to trade away Legacy staples for them, and quite a lot of them. Vintage for me is a curiosity so far, nothing more.
Here's my problem: Do you feel like Moxen are necessary in MUD? Can the deck compete without? When I looked at games from the recent BoM, turn 1 Metalworker off Shop was a very solid and frequent play, one my deck can do quite consistently even unpowered.
One last thing, and because all good things come in threes, I put together an Oath deck (Golden Gun version, Emrakul/Blightsteel) with Vault/Key. The deck does play a boatload of counters, black tutors, Thoughtseizes, Mana Crypt/Vault/Sol Ring, but again, no power.
Which deck is most dependant on Power, Oath or MUD? As it is, Oath does feel like the weakest of the 3 lists... But I have yet to test much with the decks. Thanks for your input!
Every single vintage event I have ever heard of is at least 10 proxies. The only exception I have found is Eternal Weekend for Vintage Champs. I doubt many would care if your proxied power, in fact it is the norm in a healthy vintage scene.
To answer your question, Mud is more dependant on power than Oath is. Mud ideally can make 4 mana on turn 1, and it is far easier to do that with power than without.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
I really like the three decks you chose! MUD is my favorite, but Oath is close behind. And Dredge is indeed a marvel to watch/play at times.
There is a Legacy version of MUD, so the deck is competitive in tough environments without power. For your own personal meta-game, it will likely be fine. You have the benefit of tweaking all the main decks as you see fit. It is hard to say which deck depends on power more. Both have such broken ways to win without the nine.
Of course, if you consider going to tournaments at some point in the future, you'll want power. Fortunately, the majority of tournaments allow proxies. As long as you have the Workshops, you shouldn't have much trouble meeting a 10 or 15 card limit.
I think Oath relies more heavily on moxen, because it lets you power out Oath turn 1. However, they aren't necessary, just helpful. Unpowered Oath decks have actually done pretty well in Powered tournaments on occasion. But in general all decks benefit from power.
You can certainly play without Moxen, but I do believe that if you had the opportunity to play Moxen, you would. That being said, every tournament I go to usually allows 15 proxies. I also live where Vintage is the most active. Would it not be possible to play with such a rule?
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"An immense river of oblivion is sweeping us away into a nameless abyss." —Ernest Renan, Souvenirs d'Enfance et de Jeunesse
Well, proxy events allow you to write on a basic land with a sharpie and play with that.. so I imagine CE inside sleeves would be fine. I'm not sure you'd want to waste your money on them though. The draw of proxies is that they cost nothing! Revised lands are great for this kind of thing, as there is a lot of free room to write on them.
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"An immense river of oblivion is sweeping us away into a nameless abyss." —Ernest Renan, Souvenirs d'Enfance et de Jeunesse
Don't buy into power unless you are going to use it at eternal weekend, bazaar of moxen, or gen con.
I finished MUD recently and it's fully powered and the way to go. I don't love Dredge vs. Shops only. I feel like you could just a deck like Grixis control along with those 3 as well.
I would go with CE power if you can afford it. It looks just like beta and can be used in some proxy events. Writing on lands is not the same amount of fun to me honetly. I did not own real power, I would over those.
Also, CE has been going up in price and can be used in powered cubes.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
If you are really going to go after it, the going advice seems to be start from the top and work your way down. You already got sapphire out of the way which is great. I would look Lotus, Ancestral, then time walk.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
I won't have to choose between one or the other Picked up both yesterday, ended up letting the Bazaars go.
Right before I went to sleep the other day, I realized I want to play the format for fun, and since I don't have time for tournaments and all, and Dredge isn't exactly an interactive/engrossing experience for the opponent, it just didn't fit the bill. A blue-based deck vs MUD felt like a match I'd want to be on both sides.
I built Demon Oath. Played against my other deck, Affinity MUD yesterday, and the deck felt very solid. They have a really tough time against t1 Oath, or t2 Oath if they play fair. If they're on the play, T1 Lodestone Golem or a dork and Tangle Wire, flooding the board turn 2 for a Ravager kill is another story...
I must say, playing Vintage feels amazing. Good old times!
Sounds like dropping the Bazaars for blue was a good move. Maybe you can encourage a local shop to do a 10-20 proxy event for vintage. 15-20 proxies become really cheap since power, fetches, and duals can be proxied.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
The sheer power of Dredge drew me to build another deck, so that when I have people over we can have a Vintage duel. I looked at the stuff I owned, and saw this as my next project... What about a "Duel Deck": Bazaars vs Shops? I traded some Reserve list cards that were collecting dust or cards I had picked up for Commander and grabbed a set of Shops. I built Kuldotha MUD with Metalworkers. Mana Crypt/Sol Ring/Mana Vault and all the lands (Wastelands, Tombs, City of Traitors) are in, but I don't own Power. I don't think I will ever take the plunge, as I would have to trade away Legacy staples for them, and quite a lot of them. Vintage for me is a curiosity so far, nothing more.
Here's my problem: Do you feel like Moxen are necessary in MUD? Can the deck compete without? When I looked at games from the recent BoM, turn 1 Metalworker off Shop was a very solid and frequent play, one my deck can do quite consistently even unpowered.
One last thing, and because all good things come in threes, I put together an Oath deck (Golden Gun version, Emrakul/Blightsteel) with Vault/Key. The deck does play a boatload of counters, black tutors, Thoughtseizes, Mana Crypt/Vault/Sol Ring, but again, no power.
Which deck is most dependant on Power, Oath or MUD? As it is, Oath does feel like the weakest of the 3 lists... But I have yet to test much with the decks. Thanks for your input!
Every single vintage event I have ever heard of is at least 10 proxies. The only exception I have found is Eternal Weekend for Vintage Champs. I doubt many would care if your proxied power, in fact it is the norm in a healthy vintage scene.
To answer your question, Mud is more dependant on power than Oath is. Mud ideally can make 4 mana on turn 1, and it is far easier to do that with power than without.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
There is a Legacy version of MUD, so the deck is competitive in tough environments without power. For your own personal meta-game, it will likely be fine. You have the benefit of tweaking all the main decks as you see fit. It is hard to say which deck depends on power more. Both have such broken ways to win without the nine.
Of course, if you consider going to tournaments at some point in the future, you'll want power. Fortunately, the majority of tournaments allow proxies. As long as you have the Workshops, you shouldn't have much trouble meeting a 10 or 15 card limit.
Regarding proxies... What is your view on CE Power? My LGS has Pearl and Jet CE, but the corners are cut. Yay or nay?
They're asking 50$/each... which I feel is too much for a "damaged" card... I'm I wrong?
Do proxy-friendly tournaments allow CE to be played as proxies, generally?
Thanks for the input!
I finished MUD recently and it's fully powered and the way to go. I don't love Dredge vs. Shops only. I feel like you could just a deck like Grixis control along with those 3 as well.
I would go with CE power if you can afford it. It looks just like beta and can be used in some proxy events. Writing on lands is not the same amount of fun to me honetly. I did not own real power, I would over those.
Also, CE has been going up in price and can be used in powered cubes.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
For some reason, this feels great.
Grixis control? I'll look into it.
I'm interesting in sleeving Tezzerator... If you had to choose only one, would you play Walk or Recall?
I'm wondering which I should get next. Recall is 200$ more expensive than Walk locally...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
Right before I went to sleep the other day, I realized I want to play the format for fun, and since I don't have time for tournaments and all, and Dredge isn't exactly an interactive/engrossing experience for the opponent, it just didn't fit the bill. A blue-based deck vs MUD felt like a match I'd want to be on both sides.
I built Demon Oath. Played against my other deck, Affinity MUD yesterday, and the deck felt very solid. They have a really tough time against t1 Oath, or t2 Oath if they play fair. If they're on the play, T1 Lodestone Golem or a dork and Tangle Wire, flooding the board turn 2 for a Ravager kill is another story...
I must say, playing Vintage feels amazing. Good old times!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
Is Talrand still the creature of choice now that Young Pyromancer was printed? Do they belong in 2 entirely different decks?
Basically I'm looking to play a ritual-less deck that doesn't rely on Bargain/Necropotence to win.
Any input appreciated!