Hello, me again. Is this format "dieing" like evryone seems to say? Is playing paper vintage worthwhile and if not what's the community on MTGO like as well as the price of playing it online? Thanks again guys!
If you don't have people to play face to face with, try Cockatrice. Or MTGO in June. I think it might be a couple grand to power up and get all the duals, fetches and other staples on MTGO, but this is just a guess.
I guess it really depends where you live if there is an active Vintage community or not. Here in the northeast, PA, NY area its alive and kicking. We have monthly tournaments that draw 20 to 30 people.
I also feel Vintage is one of the more affordable formats you can play. Most tournaments allow 10 proxies, and most Vintage cards do not see a lot of play in other formats making them less desirable. Can you imagine how much Yawgmoths Will would cost if you could play it in Legacy?
Proxy up a deck, find a testing partner and have fun!
Kevin
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Vintage! Where the early game is Shuffling, the midgame is Mulliganing, and the Late game is turn 1
Vintage was dead ten years ago. Much like other things and people that died in 2003, it's no deader today. Menendian might churn out a column about it, but people still write stuff about John Lennon and Michael Jackson, too.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I think that "Vintage is dead" is an uninformed statement, although I can see why someone would say that. Vintage is played by a devoted group of people that is by most estimates growing, allbeit extremely slowly. The lack of support from WOTC means that it has to be supported by the players.
Vintage lives on in the dark places of the world, like a fish with no eyes. It just keeps swimming, because it doesn't know what the hell else to do while it subsists on bits of dead things that sink down from the surface.
I would say it's growing slower than the overall population of magic is growing. Thus, over time, a smaller percentage of players play vintage, even though the actual number might be going up.
I expect to see an uptick in Vintage when Vintage Master's hits the digital world - people will discover what a unique format this can be and will want to try it out in RL.
Fact. When you can afford to play Vintage you play Vintage. If your income does not support it you will not play it. If it does you will. It is the same as anything else.
Vintage isn't as dead or stagnant as people make it out to be. The reason people think it is, is because the format is very heavily based around Proxy Tournaments (10-15 proxies allowed in 1k-5k or higher level events), and as such it can't be sanctioned. Yes, Sanctioned Vintage in my area is picking up, and it's forcing more innovation, but people still hesitate and as such it's almost an underground format that thrives but isn't visible... Then again Unpowered Merfolk made 20th at Vintage worlds, so you know, Power isn't the end all be all.
As for stagnation, well the decks that are good don't generally stop being good, it's just new decks are introduced. Sure, some people might say it's stagnation, but in reality it's that Vintage isn't so much archetypes as it is pillars, the pillars are basically archetypes but they're about abusing specific cards as opposed to strategies. For instance, Bazaar decks are often times Dredge, but they can be Dragon... Dragon is a reanimator deck, Dredge is a combo deck, Dredge is also and aggro deck, it's messy... All of them utilize the engine that is Bazaar. Workshop is even trickier, there's aggro shop, forgemaster shop, welder shop, terra-nova shop, etc, etc. They all play differently, from combo, to prison, to toolbox, to aggro, but they all revolve around sol lands and Workshop.
As for diversity, well let's look at Legacy Champs, Vintage Champs, and Bazaar of Moxen, which all happened in one weekend.
Legacy Champs top 8:
2x White Weenie (D&T)
3x Delver (RUG and UR)
1x MUD
1x Tendrils
1x UW Miracles
Legacy BOM:
1x Elves
2x White Weenie (D&T)
3x Tendrils
1x America Delver
1x Maverick
Legacy Deck types: 7-9 depending on how much you differentiate URW, RUG, and UR Delver.
Vintage Cahmps Top 8:
1x Mono U Merfolk
2x RUG Devler
1x 4 Colour Control
1x Burning Oath of Druids
1x Dredge
1x Tendrils
1x UW Resto-Angel Control
BoM top 8 Vintage:
1x BUG Edrich Fish
3x Forgemaster Workshop
1x Almost Blue (Talrand Gush Combo)
1x Sneak and Show
1x Doomsday Maniac
1x Demon Oath (Ok I'll count this as just Oath, even though it's more of a control deck than a combo deck getting Rune-scarred Demon instead of Griselbrand and playing things like Jace and Counters as opposed to redundant combo parts)
Total Vintage Decks: 12 (13 if you differentiate the Oath Decks)...
Even if you're willing to be generous about the Delver lists in Legacy, Vintage already has them beat in diversity of Top 8s without knowing half of the BoM results. It's such a strange and diverse format, but people focus on the random little things and refuse to do research... Oh well, what can you do about it?
I also feel Vintage is one of the more affordable formats you can play. Most tournaments allow 10 proxies, and most Vintage cards do not see a lot of play in other formats making them less desirable. Can you imagine how much Yawgmoths Will would cost if you could play it in Legacy?
Proxy up a deck, find a testing partner and have fun!
Kevin
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Vintage lives on in the dark places of the world, like a fish with no eyes. It just keeps swimming, because it doesn't know what the hell else to do while it subsists on bits of dead things that sink down from the surface.
thanks to DNC of Heroes of the Plane Studios for the coolest sig
vintage-WBdark timesBW
legacy-BGRJund-51/60BGR
RBBob Sligh 48/60BR
GRone land belcherRG
URBTES-54/60URB
Fun deck-BBBBKobolds stormBBBB
As for stagnation, well the decks that are good don't generally stop being good, it's just new decks are introduced. Sure, some people might say it's stagnation, but in reality it's that Vintage isn't so much archetypes as it is pillars, the pillars are basically archetypes but they're about abusing specific cards as opposed to strategies. For instance, Bazaar decks are often times Dredge, but they can be Dragon... Dragon is a reanimator deck, Dredge is a combo deck, Dredge is also and aggro deck, it's messy... All of them utilize the engine that is Bazaar. Workshop is even trickier, there's aggro shop, forgemaster shop, welder shop, terra-nova shop, etc, etc. They all play differently, from combo, to prison, to toolbox, to aggro, but they all revolve around sol lands and Workshop.
As for diversity, well let's look at Legacy Champs, Vintage Champs, and Bazaar of Moxen, which all happened in one weekend.
Legacy Champs top 8:
2x White Weenie (D&T)
3x Delver (RUG and UR)
1x MUD
1x Tendrils
1x UW Miracles
Legacy BOM:
1x Elves
2x White Weenie (D&T)
3x Tendrils
1x America Delver
1x Maverick
Legacy Deck types: 7-9 depending on how much you differentiate URW, RUG, and UR Delver.
Vintage Cahmps Top 8:
1x Mono U Merfolk
2x RUG Devler
1x 4 Colour Control
1x Burning Oath of Druids
1x Dredge
1x Tendrils
1x UW Resto-Angel Control
BoM top 8 Vintage:
1x BUG Edrich Fish
3x Forgemaster Workshop
1x Almost Blue (Talrand Gush Combo)
1x Sneak and Show
1x Doomsday Maniac
1x Demon Oath (Ok I'll count this as just Oath, even though it's more of a control deck than a combo deck getting Rune-scarred Demon instead of Griselbrand and playing things like Jace and Counters as opposed to redundant combo parts)
Total Vintage Decks: 12 (13 if you differentiate the Oath Decks)...
Even if you're willing to be generous about the Delver lists in Legacy, Vintage already has them beat in diversity of Top 8s without knowing half of the BoM results. It's such a strange and diverse format, but people focus on the random little things and refuse to do research... Oh well, what can you do about it?