Zodiac Dragon annoys me because it has power-level eratta in an era where even time vault don't have that. If it was erattaed back to the original wording
If Zodiac Dragon would be put into your graveyard from anywhere you may return it to your hand
It'd probably be banned in Legacy on the spot, but would it do anything in Vintage?
It'd be a nice dredge utility. Dredge, end up with 8 or more cards, discard cards eot?
Talking about eot discard, that's a good reason for not errata-ing it. You could just discard it over and over to stall out the game.
but then the issue is that you just have a big creature... and niether of them seem good on their own....
Two-card combos need to either:
A. contain cards useful on their own
B. Be game enders..
Tinkersteel is an example of B. Blightsteel is hard to remove and tinker can toolbox for other stuff if need be (Voltaic Vault)
Mongrel dies to just about any removal and so does troll....
Well mongrel + dragon wouldn't require an artifact in play and it is thus much cheaper to burst out than tinkering for BSC. also, what removal are we talking about here? The only playable removal spell that hits this (and not BSC) in vintage is Diabolic Edict. Curfew, if anybody runs that, is a total joke for mongrel/troll but ruins BSC/DSC/Inkwell/etc, Fire/Ice and Darkblast also can't kill them.
This is not only immune to all toughness based removal, but also very resistant to Swords to Plowshares (which BSC is not). STPing a mongrel backed by a dragon can make the game un-winable for the opponent (depending on their deck).
As it's a triggered ability, your opponent would only have to respond to the trigger the first time you discard it to be able to remove Wild Mongrel or Lotleth Troll with Fire//Ice or Lightning Bolt.
Sure they could, assuming you only have one Zodiac Dragon.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
How does Zodiac Dragon get to your hand? MTG Gather says "When Zodiac Dragon is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may return it to your hand."
The combo sounds cool, but he does not do that. Sorry.
How does Zodiac Dragon get to your hand? MTG Gather says "When Zodiac Dragon is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may return it to your hand."
The combo sounds cool, but he does not do that. Sorry.
that's the point of the topic. his original text states that when he is put into your graveyard, you return it to your hand. the oracle text has this errata'd.
and my last post does have some errors (how does BSC not get hit by Diabolic Edict? lulz) due to my sleepiness, but all the destroy effects do not effect the troll which is noteworthy (obviously he's a bit harder to use though). the only thing troll has to worry about is double Darkblast after a draw. in many ways, it is a more solid combo than tinkering a giant robot.
If you have to rely on having two Zodiac Dragons in your hand to get around removal then it's hardly an efficient or particularly viable combo.
I mean, you are assuming the opponent has instant speed removal and the mana to use it on turn one or two, so it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that I would have 2 Dragons.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
I mean, you are assuming the opponent has instant speed removal and the mana to use it on turn one or two, so it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that I would have 2 Dragons.
I don't think you'd want to put all that many Zodiac Dragons in your deck, so having multiples does sound a bit unlikely.
How has this thread gotten this far? It doesn't do what anyone wants it to do. It has to make it to the graveyard, so you need a much more laborious combo to get it into play, sacrifice it, aren't there better actual viable combos?
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If it wasnt for newer printings, one could make the argument that Rukh Egg should have its oracle text changed. But the fact that it has been printed in newer with updated text probably means that Zodiac Dragon will never be changed back, nor any other cards that are worded similarly.
How has this thread gotten this far? It doesn't do what anyone wants it to do. It has to make it to the graveyard, so you need a much more laborious combo to get it into play, sacrifice it, aren't there better actual viable combos?
Because people are talking about what effect the card would have if it was changed back to how it is printed. We are not talking about its current oracle text.
Is this actually power level errata? I assume that the wording on those cards is the way it is just because it's prior to the existence of static abilities that work in places other than the battlefield (So the ability doesn't matter if you discard the card from your hand; it refers only to a zodiac dragon creature, not a zodiac dragon card).
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Is this actually power level errata? I assume that the wording on those cards is the way it is just because it's prior to the existence of static abilities that work in places other than the battlefield (So the ability doesn't matter if you discard the card from your hand; it refers only to a zodiac dragon creature, not a zodiac dragon card).
There might be some argument that it is, considering Guan Yu, Sainted Warrior is in the set, but has the clause that it needs to go to the graveyard from the battlefield. However, the effect is different because the dragon goes to your hand, and the warrior goes into your library.
It'd probably be banned in Legacy on the spot, but would it do anything in Vintage?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicyreturning to your hand is nice, but its simply outclassed in my mind....
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicywhat would you combo it with in vintage?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyBazaar of Baghdad, much better than Squee, Goblin Nabob at this interaction. Who knows what other combos it may fuel: it works exceptionally well with Survival of the Fittest and Tortured Existence. I can guess a couple ridiculously broken things you can do with it and SotF...
that's much too practical, you're just not jumping through enough hoops for that to be good in vintage!
Talking about eot discard, that's a good reason for not errata-ing it. You could just discard it over and over to stall out the game.
but then the issue is that you just have a big creature... and niether of them seem good on their own....
Two-card combos need to either:
A. contain cards useful on their own
B. Be game enders..
Tinkersteel is an example of B. Blightsteel is hard to remove and tinker can toolbox for other stuff if need be (Voltaic Vault)
Mongrel dies to just about any removal and so does troll....
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyWell mongrel + dragon wouldn't require an artifact in play and it is thus much cheaper to burst out than tinkering for BSC. also, what removal are we talking about here? The only playable removal spell that hits this (and not BSC) in vintage is Diabolic Edict. Curfew, if anybody runs that, is a total joke for mongrel/troll but ruins BSC/DSC/Inkwell/etc, Fire/Ice and Darkblast also can't kill them.
This is not only immune to all toughness based removal, but also very resistant to Swords to Plowshares (which BSC is not). STPing a mongrel backed by a dragon can make the game un-winable for the opponent (depending on their deck).
Ok, then there we go...
I could see that as a storm engine....
you draw your whole deck and storm out...
My only question is ensuring you get MoM out...
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicySure they could, assuming you only have one Zodiac Dragon.
The combo sounds cool, but he does not do that. Sorry.
that's the point of the topic. his original text states that when he is put into your graveyard, you return it to your hand. the oracle text has this errata'd.
and my last post does have some errors (how does BSC not get hit by Diabolic Edict? lulz) due to my sleepiness, but all the destroy effects do not effect the troll which is noteworthy (obviously he's a bit harder to use though). the only thing troll has to worry about is double Darkblast after a draw. in many ways, it is a more solid combo than tinkering a giant robot.
I mean, you are assuming the opponent has instant speed removal and the mana to use it on turn one or two, so it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that I would have 2 Dragons.
I don't think you'd want to put all that many Zodiac Dragons in your deck, so having multiples does sound a bit unlikely.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
B Infect
BW Death & Taxes
UBR Affinity
R Burn
UBR Sac Land Tendrils
UBRG Oops, All Spells
WUG Phelddagrif
GGG Omnath, Locus of Mana
BBB Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
RRR Ashling, the Pilgrim
BBW Teysa, Scion of Orzhov
UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner
UUB Vela the Night-Clad
GGB Vhati il-Dal
RUW Ruhan of the Fomori
Because people are talking about what effect the card would have if it was changed back to how it is printed. We are not talking about its current oracle text.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
There might be some argument that it is, considering Guan Yu, Sainted Warrior is in the set, but has the clause that it needs to go to the graveyard from the battlefield. However, the effect is different because the dragon goes to your hand, and the warrior goes into your library.
Here are some cards like Rukh Egg http://magiccards.info/query?q=ct%3A%22goes+to+the+graveyard%22&v=card&s=cname
And cards that where printed like Zodiac Dragon. However, unlike Rukh Egg the other two have oracle texts that read "is put into your graveyard from anywhere,". http://magiccards.info/query?q=ct%3A%22is+put+into+your+graveyard%2C%22&v=card&s=cname
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B