There are a bunch of decktypes that can win on turn 1 semi-reliably on the play, provided that their opponent cannot Force of Will or Mindbreak Trap. And in that case, there lies the problem. Dedicated turn 1 kill decks only work well on the play, which is 50% of games, and even then, only if opponent cannot do something to stop you, which can also be rare. Because of that, they are not very popular. It is more popular to play a deck that can stop 1 turn kills and has some game against other decks, too.
edit: Cards that come to mind that can hose these decks on the draw:
Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sancity, Chancellor of the Annex, Gemstone Caverns+1cc instant, Force of Will, Mindbreak Trap
Add Serum Powder to find any of the above.
Most vintage games last on average 4-5 turns so even though most decks have a way to win turn one or two it virtually never happens for many reasons, as already stated above. I play Oath for the most part and it can be very fast; turn one oath of druids, which pretty much means turn 2 win, unless your opponent counters the oath and you don't have a counter to respond with, or they bounce/destroy your oath on their turn. Storm can be equally fast. Hell Gush can win turn two with a tinker on turn one.
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Main Decks:
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Zombie
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Last Stand Legacy
:symu::symb: Reanimator
Merfolk
:symb::symr: Dragon Stompy Vintage
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LED was banned in vintage because it made a fast deck that was too fast too good right?
LED isn't banned in Vintage; it's restricted. You're right that the restriction of LED was a response by the DCI to a particular deck, though. That deck was called Long.
Lion's Eye Diamond and Burning Wish were restricted when Wizards' staff decided that Long was too fast and consistent. (Brainstorm was restricted later during a period involving the dominance of blue control decks.) To adapt to the restriction, Long evolved into various related decks like Grim Long, Death Long, and Gifts Long.
There is a modern interpretation of Long called Gitaxian Long, but strategies as all-in as Long aren't currently well-positioned with the preponderance of Mental Missteps and even Mindbreak Traps being played today.
There are plenty of fast powerful decks, but they aren't played as people are playing disruption to stop those exact decks, and the disruption is good vs other decks too. This leaves you sitting in the water watching while the opponent exectues his plan. Instead individuals chose to play powerful resilient decks, these are not quite as fast but can fight thru hate and disrupt their opponent - making it again into an interactive game.
It's similar to how aggro builds can be built, they could pack a disenchant effect (giving them more versatility) but adding these type of cards can slow them down. Of course as the game has evolved versatilty has given them aggro answers (ala things like Qasali Pridemage for disenchant effects).
Stormcombo and Belcher are fast, but contrary to what people say about Vintage, 90% Game Over on Turn 2 is not possible.
You can builder Fatestitcher Dredge to achieve a 90% turn 2 kill ratio, but it's a complete glass cannon that folds to GY hate as you can't maindeck ANY anti-hate in that build.
There's also an old Meandeck Tendrils build that you could manage to get about 90% Turn 2 and 60% turn 1 kills Goldfishing, but again it folds to hate and it was WAAAYYYYY to complicated to actually run in a tournament.
The fastest real (ie tournament playable) deck in vintage is Dredge. A properly built dredge deck will consistently kill on turn 2 (well over 50% of the time), and hit a very very high turn 3 kill rate, and be very very hard to stop unless the opponent main decks Grafdigger's Cage or Leyline of the Void. The issue is you have a very very hard game 2 and 3, especially since Cage was printed, since it's the 2nd best Dredge hate out there.
The fastest blue based decks are also turn 3 decks, but with a much lower percentage of turn 2 kills and a much higher percentage of games going past turn 3.
The format is really really hateful toward decks that are this fast right now though. Sure, you can build some broken monstrosity that wins on Turn 1 pretty often, but vintage has the best answer cards ever printed. There are viable decks that run 4 Force of Will, 4 Mental Misstep, 2-4 Mana Drain , 2 Flusterstorm and can bring in Mindbreak Traps from the sideboard. There's a whole pillar of decks powered by Mishra's Workshop that punish people for runn land0light with tons of accelerants by running Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amythest, Lodestone Golem, etc... And the faster you are, the less room you have for answers of your own when the blue mage goes "island, mana crypt, tinker --> Blightsteel Colossus".
The best decks, the ones with the most stability and consistent ability to put up tournament results, generally are killing later than ever in Vintage. Yes, they have crazy starting lines that do happen (like the Tinker example above), but they usually play slower, more grindy games.
I guess what I'm saying is, I think you're asking the wrong question. I assume if you want the fastest deck, it is because you want to win games. Speed does kill, but it's not as relevant as it was in the format in the past. Resilience, versatility of answers, and the ability to create card advantage or VCA are much more important in the format than speed. This wasn't true 10 years ago, when answers were not as well developed and you pretty much always wanted to run the fastest thing you could jam 4 Force of Wills into, but it's certainly true today.
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I can get rainbow deck off in 1-4 turns fairly consistently. It also just happens to be one of the most expensive decks possible. 5 color storm is essentially what it is.
Actually you can build Metalworker Combo MUD to acheive a close to 90% turn two win ratio, or higher!. Infact, you can even win on the first turn with this deck because of Time Vault and Voltaic Key. The point is to play Metalworker first turn. Then second turn play Umbral Mantle, or Staff of Domination with lots of artifacts in your hand and win.
Flashhulk was bonkers broken (even for vintage) because of how hard it was to counter and its speed, but these days "fast" isn't what I would use to describe vintage. Vintage is usually more like a game of chess. You might could win turn one or turn two, but can you protect your win-con, while stopping your opponents wincon? That's what makes vintage interesting.
Flashhulk was bonkers broken (even for vintage) because of how hard it was to counter and its speed, but these days "fast" isn't what I would use to describe vintage. Vintage is usually more like a game of chess. You might could win turn one or turn two, but can you protect your win-con, while stopping your opponents wincon? That's what makes vintage interesting.
Agreed. Vintage is much more interesting and intense than people give it credit for. When everything is broken, nothing is overpowered.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Agreed. Vintage is much more interesting and intense than people give it credit for. When everything is broken, nothing is overpowered.
Indeed. Vintage is by far the most skill intensive format now. On the other hand, standard is pretty stupid right now, where games just go "Prime Time, gg" or any other broken card which is impossible to answer.
Indeed. Vintage is by far the most skill intensive format now. On the other hand, standard is pretty stupid right now, where games just go "Prime Time, gg" or any other broken card which is impossible to answer.
It would appear there are just as many false assumptions about standard as there are vintage.
I love Vintage. It is and always will be my favorite format.
The reason there is no deck that is going to do what you want it to do with that kind of consistency is because there are too many answers in Vintage, not the least of which is Force of Will, which in an opening hand on the draw can stop anything the player on the play throws at him.
I compare Vintage to a gun fight between two dead shots where the only variables are who draws first and how quickly the other person can get out of the way of a speeding bullet.
Vintage is like nothing you'll ever play as far as the game of Magic goes. I play Oath and I love it. It can lock down the game on turn 2. It can also blow up in your face.
One last thing. Not all Vintage games end in two turns or less. Many turn into a battle of wits with counters and tutors flying all over the place. Because of this, a solid opening hand is SO important, otherwise, you're pretty much dead.
Indeed. Vintage is by far the most skill intensive format now. On the other hand, standard is pretty stupid right now, where games just go "Prime Time, gg" or any other broken card which is impossible to answer.
Can you show me all the top 8 decks that run Titan's as there win con still? Cause if I remember right, there are only three decks that are really running titans and winning right now. Frites, R/G Ramp and Wolf Run Ramp.
Vintage may require more skill just because of the card pool, but standard still requires plenty of thought and execution.
Back on topic, I don't know of a single vintage deck that can't realistically have a god hand that could win on turn 1 or 2. By the same token, I don't know of a single vintage deck that actually does, because everyone is going to run some sort of defense. Unlike standard, decks cant get away with going all aggro or all combo. Everything is going to have some control elements because cards ARE that powerful, to the point that your opponent has the exact same capacity to win on turn one or two (but again, won't because your running a defense like force of will, Orim's Chant ect.) . Because of this, you need to protect your self at the same time as you go for your win con.
The only way to get those levels of consistency against the current field would be to break the Ban/Restricted list for Vintage, but that's probably as expensive as a house.
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Describe fastest, because there are plenty of decks that can win on turn 1, but at the same time there are plenty of decks that win on turn 6 that are probably better.
Case and point is shops. I have seen shops players get opening hands that, while they didn't win the game turn 1, basically locked the match from that point on. Turn one plays with a workshop or ancient tomb and moxen into a trinisphere or lodestone golem can often be game over right then and there, even though the deck has to run through the motions for 4 more turns.
Fastest is not always best, especially in a format where so many threats double as answers. Unless your decks wincons are all also answers to many of the countermeasures you will face its probably not great to just rush out a godhand blindly.
I would say that overall I would think dredge is on average the fastest. You can build the deck to have turn 1 wins if you play lotus, mox, petal, recall, and fatestitchers of some number, but even if your not playing a T1 build the deck goes off on turn 2 pretty often, at least goldfish.
When everything is broken, nothing is overpowered.
LOL @ nothing is overpowered in vintage. funny joke is funny
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edit: Cards that come to mind that can hose these decks on the draw:
Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sancity, Chancellor of the Annex, Gemstone Caverns+1cc instant, Force of Will, Mindbreak Trap
Add Serum Powder to find any of the above.
My Deck Index
Main Decks:
Vampire
Zombie
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Last Stand
Legacy
:symu::symb: Reanimator
Merfolk
:symb::symr: Dragon Stompy
Vintage
:symu::symb::symg: Demon Oath
MUD
:symu::symr: Landstill
Lion's Eye Diamond and Burning Wish were restricted when Wizards' staff decided that Long was too fast and consistent. (Brainstorm was restricted later during a period involving the dominance of blue control decks.) To adapt to the restriction, Long evolved into various related decks like Grim Long, Death Long, and Gifts Long.
There is a modern interpretation of Long called Gitaxian Long, but strategies as all-in as Long aren't currently well-positioned with the preponderance of Mental Missteps and even Mindbreak Traps being played today.
It's similar to how aggro builds can be built, they could pack a disenchant effect (giving them more versatility) but adding these type of cards can slow them down. Of course as the game has evolved versatilty has given them aggro answers (ala things like Qasali Pridemage for disenchant effects).
To answer the question directly, none exsist. Other members have explained why there is no deck that fits that profile.
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You can builder Fatestitcher Dredge to achieve a 90% turn 2 kill ratio, but it's a complete glass cannon that folds to GY hate as you can't maindeck ANY anti-hate in that build.
There's also an old Meandeck Tendrils build that you could manage to get about 90% Turn 2 and 60% turn 1 kills Goldfishing, but again it folds to hate and it was WAAAYYYYY to complicated to actually run in a tournament.
The fastest real (ie tournament playable) deck in vintage is Dredge. A properly built dredge deck will consistently kill on turn 2 (well over 50% of the time), and hit a very very high turn 3 kill rate, and be very very hard to stop unless the opponent main decks Grafdigger's Cage or Leyline of the Void. The issue is you have a very very hard game 2 and 3, especially since Cage was printed, since it's the 2nd best Dredge hate out there.
The fastest blue based decks are also turn 3 decks, but with a much lower percentage of turn 2 kills and a much higher percentage of games going past turn 3.
The format is really really hateful toward decks that are this fast right now though. Sure, you can build some broken monstrosity that wins on Turn 1 pretty often, but vintage has the best answer cards ever printed. There are viable decks that run 4 Force of Will, 4 Mental Misstep, 2-4 Mana Drain , 2 Flusterstorm and can bring in Mindbreak Traps from the sideboard. There's a whole pillar of decks powered by Mishra's Workshop that punish people for runn land0light with tons of accelerants by running Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amythest, Lodestone Golem, etc... And the faster you are, the less room you have for answers of your own when the blue mage goes "island, mana crypt, tinker --> Blightsteel Colossus".
The best decks, the ones with the most stability and consistent ability to put up tournament results, generally are killing later than ever in Vintage. Yes, they have crazy starting lines that do happen (like the Tinker example above), but they usually play slower, more grindy games.
I guess what I'm saying is, I think you're asking the wrong question. I assume if you want the fastest deck, it is because you want to win games. Speed does kill, but it's not as relevant as it was in the format in the past. Resilience, versatility of answers, and the ability to create card advantage or VCA are much more important in the format than speed. This wasn't true 10 years ago, when answers were not as well developed and you pretty much always wanted to run the fastest thing you could jam 4 Force of Wills into, but it's certainly true today.
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Agreed. Vintage is much more interesting and intense than people give it credit for. When everything is broken, nothing is overpowered.
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Indeed. Vintage is by far the most skill intensive format now. On the other hand, standard is pretty stupid right now, where games just go "Prime Time, gg" or any other broken card which is impossible to answer.
It would appear there are just as many false assumptions about standard as there are vintage.
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The reason there is no deck that is going to do what you want it to do with that kind of consistency is because there are too many answers in Vintage, not the least of which is Force of Will, which in an opening hand on the draw can stop anything the player on the play throws at him.
I compare Vintage to a gun fight between two dead shots where the only variables are who draws first and how quickly the other person can get out of the way of a speeding bullet.
Vintage is like nothing you'll ever play as far as the game of Magic goes. I play Oath and I love it. It can lock down the game on turn 2. It can also blow up in your face.
One last thing. Not all Vintage games end in two turns or less. Many turn into a battle of wits with counters and tutors flying all over the place. Because of this, a solid opening hand is SO important, otherwise, you're pretty much dead.
Wouldn't trade Vintage for anything.
Can you show me all the top 8 decks that run Titan's as there win con still? Cause if I remember right, there are only three decks that are really running titans and winning right now. Frites, R/G Ramp and Wolf Run Ramp.
Vintage may require more skill just because of the card pool, but standard still requires plenty of thought and execution.
Back on topic, I don't know of a single vintage deck that can't realistically have a god hand that could win on turn 1 or 2. By the same token, I don't know of a single vintage deck that actually does, because everyone is going to run some sort of defense. Unlike standard, decks cant get away with going all aggro or all combo. Everything is going to have some control elements because cards ARE that powerful, to the point that your opponent has the exact same capacity to win on turn one or two (but again, won't because your running a defense like force of will, Orim's Chant ect.) . Because of this, you need to protect your self at the same time as you go for your win con.
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Not even a Klondike Bar?
The only way to get those levels of consistency against the current field would be to break the Ban/Restricted list for Vintage, but that's probably as expensive as a house.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Case and point is shops. I have seen shops players get opening hands that, while they didn't win the game turn 1, basically locked the match from that point on. Turn one plays with a workshop or ancient tomb and moxen into a trinisphere or lodestone golem can often be game over right then and there, even though the deck has to run through the motions for 4 more turns.
Fastest is not always best, especially in a format where so many threats double as answers. Unless your decks wincons are all also answers to many of the countermeasures you will face its probably not great to just rush out a godhand blindly.
I would say that overall I would think dredge is on average the fastest. You can build the deck to have turn 1 wins if you play lotus, mox, petal, recall, and fatestitchers of some number, but even if your not playing a T1 build the deck goes off on turn 2 pretty often, at least goldfish.
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LOL @ nothing is overpowered in vintage. funny joke is funny
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