Considering the vast majority of Vintage tournaments in the United States (essentially all but Vintage Worlds and side events at GPs and such) allow proxies (ranging from 10 proxy to unlimited proxy), Vintage is cheaper than Legacy much of the time and, for some decks like Dark Times, cheaper than Standard at other times.
B. Has a bad reputation for being too broken to be considered fair or to have good matches.
This myth, while persistent in general, is usually dissuaded after watching a couple games of Vintage, either in a tournament setting or people testing for a tournament.
it's beyond resuscitation and i don't hear the ambulance.
Vintage Worlds at GenCon this year had significantly more spectators than Legacy Worlds at the same venue the next day.
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So basically what you're saying is that vintage is as strong as ever and this entire thread is erroneous? or what are you saying?
no offense but to me half your post is blown out of proportion and I don't even know where to begin.
lets start with: if there were
plenty of Vintage tournaments that reward Power and other high value cards for prizes
, then threads lie this wouldn't exist. so rather than destroying my post, maybe you could enlighten us all as to where to find vintage tournaments to play in, as I can't find anything.
As far as I'm concerned, they are all broken cards that are strictly overpowered and dropping a single mox allows for a turn one counterbalance or Tinker, depending on your hand. Lotus lets you drop top and CB on turn one, with mana to activate top in the form of a land, and even possibly a mox
-ABC
I seriously doubt it, if you think it is a format dominated by combo. In fact, the top deck in Vintage right now is a U/b control list.
There are no "archetypes have already been shut off" either. Everything is represented in Vintage - Control, Combo, and Aggro (and the hybrids like Aggro-Control).
As for "no good counter spells available," Force of Will, Mana Drain, Mental Misstep, Spell Pierce, and Flusterstorm would like to have a chit chat with you.
____
Given that Vintage has access to the best countermagic ever printed in Force of Will, Mana Drain, Daze, and Stifle (yes, I consider it countermagic), I think your definition of "good" isn't matching up with, well, anybody's.
Geez Guys I was refering to MODERN, not vintage. go back and re-read my posts.(Shakes head) It's alright we all have our moments I forgive you.
Yes I have two Vintage decks and play every week against Jace Vault/TMWA/Reanimator/Dredge and Tendrils Combo. Just to name a few. BTW the top 3 decks at worlds were Dredge and 2 Bob Gush Vault decks. With tinker Blightsteel as the main win con. and you're telling me it's not about combo.....
Vintage control decks almost always feature a combo finish (Tinker->Robot, Valut/Key, Oath/Orchard). They are essentially control decks though, since, in order to get to the point where they can safely deploy that combo, their deck is designed to generate card advantage through things like:
*) Jace, The Mind Sculptor.
*) Gush/Fastbond.
*) Tutoring for Ancestral, resolving Ancestral
*) Resolving and protecting Dark Confidant.
*) Setting up a significant midgame Yawgmoth's Will.
Meanwhile, they prevent the opposing strategy from progressing as much as possible (either through stack control against things like TPS, or board control against decks like Dredge or MUD).
It's deceptive that they are control decks in the games where the decks fail to interact very meaningfully and they turn 2 tinker, but that's just the speed of the format at work. Turn 2 in Vintage can be turn 4-5 in other formats due to the effect of the restricted list cards.
I live in a fairly large metro area (Minneapolis/St. Paul) and Vintage tournaments are sadly few and far between. I built a vintage deck and was able to play it for the first time recently and had a BLAST. I wasn't playing one of the '4 archetypes' and was playing my deck for the first time but I still did ok and had a lot of fun (I was a bad mulligan away from 4-1 and top 8). The games were fun, interactive and usually went beyond turn 2 (I had one game go into the double digits of turns). I plan on buying more vintage and legacy staples as I can but I have only been playing for a year and just don't have many right now. About half the dudes there were old players with only a few proxies (15 were allowed, I used 2) and about half were new players. There is interest in this format but there are three problems:
1. The cost: The restricted list is really hurting the format and legacy. Dual lands and power 9 are just too important and getting too expensive. The bigger issue is with supply. I think there would be some decrease in value with reprintings but we can look at some examples from Magic itself (instead of tobacco cards) to see that the older cards will retain significant value:
--A. An alpha Black Lotus is worth over $3000, Unlimited is worth about $1000
--B. An alpha Lightning Bolt is worth almost $30 (as is the Judge promo) while an M12 bolt is worth less than $1.
I think the best plan would be to reprint many of these cards as foil special editions that are sold as singles for a fraction of their value. Sell a foil black lotus with a new picture for $300. Sell the Moxen with new pictures for $150 each, etc. Sell dual lands (so people can actually read them) in playsets for $100. They could also include them as foil rares in regular packs at extreme rarity as this would certainly help them sell more packs.
2. The perception of turn 1 kills in Vintage. It is true that die rolls are more important in Vintage and you better have a way to win or stop your opponent from winning by turn 2 most times or you will certainly lose but I saw very few Vintage games end ridiculously quickly. The games tended to be interactive and fun to watch. I guess Vintage is akin to NBA basketball. Some will find it boring to see the same powerful plays used by multiple teams to give themselves the best chance to win but others will enjoy knowing that they are watching the highest level of the game they love. I guess Legacy is NCAA and Standard is High School in this analogy, haha. Perhaps Modern is semi-pro?
3. I stated this before in this thread but I think maybe it deserves repeating. Wizards does not give a crap about eternal formats. They care about making money; they are a business. They will give the most support to things that make them money (aka Standard and Limited, BUY MOAR PACKS!). More people playing Vintage and Legacy probably means less people playing their cash cows and that makes for a sad wizard with a droopy wizard's hat. They realized that EDH doesn't really draw much from the same player pool as competitive standard (or feed the same desire); then they made a profit and moved on. I think they could make a ton following my plan above but maybe they know something I don't or are really just that serious about the reserved list and don't want to anger a few thirty-five year old basement dwellers that have never heard of a 401K or an IRA.
I personally hope something happens to revive vintage as it seems like such an incredible format and Magic at its most powerful. Reprinting of too-expensive staples and more sanctioned tournaments seem like the best ideas. Maybe they could sanction proxy tournaments at FNM, PTQ or GP levels but require no proxies at PTs, Nationals and Worlds?
Vintage control decks almost always feature a combo finish (Tinker->Robot, Valut/Key, Oath/Orchard). They are essentially control decks though, since, in order to get to the point where they can safely deploy that combo
I know, I have a Time Vault Deck that is protected by Force, Spell Pierce and the like. I don't need a breakdown.
anyone misunderstanding at this point read this as it pertains to the modern Format:
I don't see modern contributing to the demise of vintage. Many of the players that were hopeful of the format are already priced out, don't want to play since entire archetypes have already been shut off, and are flat out disappointed in the presence of combo and the lack of diversity already. With no good counter spells available, in an environment where 1st turn kills are possible - combo will rule and no one wants to play a format dominated by combo.........(cough cough)
Obviously Solaran_X and Binary Missed all of the already's and were thrown by the comment about first turn kills. YES, they are possible in modern. So stop attacking me just because you misunderstand my post!
BTW the top 3 decks at worlds were Dredge and 2 Bob Gush Vault decks. With tinker Blightsteel as the main win con. and you're telling me it's not about combo.....
So you're saying that because a deck contains a two-card combo, we should classify the deck as a combo deck?
Should decks with Helm/Leyline be reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Hexmage/Depths be reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Foundry/Sword to reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Painter/Grindstone be reclassified to combo?
I mean...it's a two card combo (sometimes two two-card combos) being put into a control deck as a win condition. That doesn't suddenly turn the entire deck into a combo deck. A combo deck is a deck like the Dredge variants, or the Storm variants. Or the old school Academy lists. Saying I'm playing a combo deck because I Tinkered into a Blightsteel on turn 2 is a pretty bad way to try and make Vintage look bad by insinuating that every other deck is combo.
If a two card combo makes a deck into a combo deck...then every single format is dominated by combo. Not just Vintage.
As for "lack" of tournaments - go to the tournament announcements section of www.themanadrain.com
I can typically find about 3-5 tournaments a month within a 5 hour drive of my house.
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yep anytime 2 cards can combine effects to create a game winning scenario IS COMBO. you want to put it in a control shell and call it control combo? Fine, it's still combo.
yep anytime 2 cards can combine effects to create a game winning scenario IS COMBO. you want to put it in a control shell and call it control combo? Fine, it's still combo.
Well that explains why you have such a horrible view of Vintage - you're considering every single U/x Control deck to be a combo deck because of Tinker or Time Vault.
That's a pretty terrible way of looking at the format. If this was just your opinion, I could live it. Unfortunately, you're causing the community a lot of harm by telling the uninformed that Vintage is dominated by combo by considering all decks that run Tinker or Time Vault to be a combo deck just like Storm, Dredge, and Dragon.
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Should decks with Helm/Leyline be reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Hexmage/Depths be reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Foundry/Sword to reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Painter/Grindstone be reclassified to combo?
I would have to consider those combos, not on the same level as say Tendrils Combo. But also, not the same level of combo as say Sensei's Divining Top + Voltaic Key
I would have to consider those combos, not on the same level as say Tendrils Combo. But also, not the same level of combo as say Sensei's Divining Top + Voltaic Key
But would you tell someone that a deck running any of those two cards combos is a combo deck? Or are they merely a two card combo serving as a win condition in a non-combo deck? As an example, would you say Dark Times is a combo deck because it has Helm/Leyline and Hexmage/Depths? Or would you say Thopter Sword in Legacy is a combo deck because it has Foundry/Sword in it?
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I see your last few posts as nothing but back peddling out of the fact that you called me out erroneously and are now trying to save face with what seems to be a rather flimsy hair splitting argument, particularly considering all of the guff you've dished out in my direction:
That's a pretty terrible way of looking at the format
Well that explains why you have such a horrible view of Vintage
Have you ever actually PLAYED Vintage before?
I seriously doubt it,...
Considering I gave you the opportunity to settle this off of the public forum (which you were apparently not interested in), I will make this my final post on the matter as this thread is officially Jacked. Sorry to the OP.
Types:
1. Aggro
2. Control
3. Combo
Sub Types:
A. Aggro-Control
B. Mid-Range
C. Control-Combo
D. Aggro-Combo
E. Aggro-Control-Combo
If you are proposing that a deck utilizing a two card combo/ Infinite that"wins the game" upon resolve/activation, can exist outside of Type 3 or Sub Types C, D and E, I would love to hear a more in depth analysis of why.
here's a definition of Control-Combo I found online, first search result:
Control-Combo is a control deck with a combo finisher that it can spring quickly if need be.
Sounds a lot like you're so called "Control deck."
Considering I gave you the opportunity to settle this off of the public forum (which you were apparently not interested in), I will make this my final post on the matter as this thread is officially Jacked. Sorry to the OP.
Types:
1. Aggro
2. Control
3. Combo
Sub Types:
A. Aggro-Control
B. Mid-Range
C. Control-Combo
D. Aggro-Combo
E. Aggro-Control-Combo
If you are proposing that a deck utilizing a two card combo/ Infinite that"wins the game" upon resolve/activation, can exist outside of Type 3 or Sub Types C, D and E, I would love to hear a more in depth analysis of why.
here's a definition of Control-Combo I found online, first search result:
Sounds a lot like you're so called "Control deck."
Actually, I had already written my post when I noticed your message. But whatever.
A Combo deck wins by using it's combo. Let's look at accepted Combo decks in Vintage.
TPS, ANT, Drain Tendrils, Bob Tendrils, et al win by generating a massive Storm count and then hitting you with Tendrils.
Turtle Dredge, Fatestitcher Dredge, Manaless Dredge, et al win by putting a lot of their cards in the bin, and replaying certain ones by flashing back freebies (Narcomoebas) and generating a lot of Zombies and swinging.
Dragon wins by generating infinite mana because of the interaction between Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead/Necromancy and Worldgorger Dragon, then reanimating Oona, Queen of the Fae and milling the opponent's entire library while generating a slew of Fairy tokens and gaining a lot of life.
These decks are Combo decks - their only win is their Combo, and if you can disrupt the Combo...they cannot win. Storm decks have a hell of a time beating MUD lists because of Thorn of Amethyst/Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere/Lodestone Golem packages. Dredge lists have a hell of a time beating Leyline of the Void/Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus. Dragon has the same weaknesses as Dredge, and the added weakness to a well-timed Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile.
Without the combo, Combo decks lose. There are no alternatives - they're all-in on that combo, win or lose.
Now...let's look at Jace Bob Control/Jace Gush Control/Bob Gush Control. By your definition, these are "Combo" decks (although now you're also acknowledging that they are Control as well). If I lose one half of either of my "combos" (Tinker/Blightsteel Colossus or Time Vault/Voltaic Key), do I fold on the spot because my win condition is gone?
No. I am not a Combo deck. You did not stop me from winning. I can, and have, won with beat down by Dark Confidants and Trygon Predators while continuing to control the board well enough to protect my 2/1s and 2/3s.
Or am I, according to you, an Aggro/Control/Combo superdeck?
Let's look at Dark Times. Mono-black deck that includes 4 Leyline of the Void, 1 Helm of Obedience, 4 Vampire Hexmage, and 2-3 Dark Depths. According to you, this is a Combo deck. However, the deck has no other combo elements - the rest of the deck is a mono-black control list. Thoughtseize, Duress, Diabolic Edict, etc., etc. With Necropotence and Dark Confidant for draws. And Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and (sometimes) Imperial Seal for tutoring.
This is another Control deck with a Combo finisher...but is not stopped by preventing it's two combos. It can still swing en masse with Hexmages and Dark Confidants for the win (and I have many times), protected by my discard and creature destruction.
Is this Control, or another Aggro/Control/Combo superdeck that uses all three roles?
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Even if moxes were 150 each and lotus were 300 that would still be fairly prohibitive.
The reprint list is asinine. They can only lose by restricting what they are able to reprint. More customers would be better off if they didn't collude with the high end secondary market by agreeing not to reprint the big bling. They should be appeasing customers, not a small segment of the secondary market.
Even if moxes were 150 each and lotus were 300 that would still be fairly prohibitive.
The reprint list is asinine. They can only lose by restricting what they are able to reprint. More customers would be better off if they didn't collude with the high end secondary market by agreeing not to reprint the big bling. They should be appeasing customers, not a small segment of the secondary market.
And it really is just the collectors (and likely the big stores) who would be mad at Wizards abolishing the Reserved List and reprinting the big money cards in some form. I have yet to meet a Vintage player who supported the idea of the Reserved List or refused to play an opponent with proxied Power and such in a friendly game.
It seems, at least to me, that most Vintage players play simply for the love of the game.
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Vintage should exist because you want some format that supports magic as a whole. Employ any card. That's what cracks me up about the semi-casual players whining about the power level of vintage. It's every card ever. Ofcourse there are decks that can win faster than any other. And just like the top decks in any format. The cards involved in making the deck are high in price. If you think about it that way. At least you only have to buy the p9 once. You'll spend much more than that in reinventing your deck every standard season.
Except there are standard tournaments. Which give you some incentive to win which help you make your money back. No such thing for vintage.
Except for the semi-regular Vintage events (IE - within a five hour drive of where I live) that award Power and other format staples (such as Mana Drains) to top placers.
Besides...as I've said before...most Vintage players play for the love of the game, not the phat lootz they can win in tournaments. Vintage is the only format where you can play with every single card you own (that doesn't involve ante or flipping the card)...Vintage is the purest form of Magic (with the least restrictions).
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And it really is just the collectors (and likely the big stores) who would be mad at Wizards abolishing the Reserved List and reprinting the big money cards in some form. I have yet to meet a Vintage player who supported the idea of the Reserved List or refused to play an opponent with proxied Power and such in a friendly game.
It seems, at least to me, that most Vintage players play simply for the love of the game.
I think the bigger companies favored the removal of the reserved list last time it was discussed (right before they made their "last" change to the policy a few years ago).
They know that any reprint would be in a limited premium form and, while it may drop the value of existing reserve list cards, if it would breathe life into Vintage and increase legacy's popularity even more, that means more singles sold over all, more tournaments they can hold, etc.
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Considering the vast majority of Vintage tournaments in the United States (essentially all but Vintage Worlds and side events at GPs and such) allow proxies (ranging from 10 proxy to unlimited proxy), Vintage is cheaper than Legacy much of the time and, for some decks like Dark Times, cheaper than Standard at other times.
This myth, while persistent in general, is usually dissuaded after watching a couple games of Vintage, either in a tournament setting or people testing for a tournament.
Are rather common, if you know where to look.
Ratings are largely irrelevant now with the shift to "Planeswalker Points."
I see plenty of Vintage tournaments that reward Power and other high value cards for prizes, or format staples (Mana Drains, Jace, etc., etc.).
Vintage Worlds at GenCon this year had significantly more spectators than Legacy Worlds at the same venue the next day.
no offense but to me half your post is blown out of proportion and I don't even know where to begin.
lets start with: if there were , then threads lie this wouldn't exist. so rather than destroying my post, maybe you could enlighten us all as to where to find vintage tournaments to play in, as I can't find anything.
You're trolling right?
Geez Guys I was refering to MODERN, not vintage. go back and re-read my posts.(Shakes head) It's alright we all have our moments I forgive you.
Yes I have two Vintage decks and play every week against Jace Vault/TMWA/Reanimator/Dredge and Tendrils Combo. Just to name a few. BTW the top 3 decks at worlds were Dredge and 2 Bob Gush Vault decks. With tinker Blightsteel as the main win con. and you're telling me it's not about combo.....
*) Jace, The Mind Sculptor.
*) Gush/Fastbond.
*) Tutoring for Ancestral, resolving Ancestral
*) Resolving and protecting Dark Confidant.
*) Setting up a significant midgame Yawgmoth's Will.
Meanwhile, they prevent the opposing strategy from progressing as much as possible (either through stack control against things like TPS, or board control against decks like Dredge or MUD).
It's deceptive that they are control decks in the games where the decks fail to interact very meaningfully and they turn 2 tinker, but that's just the speed of the format at work. Turn 2 in Vintage can be turn 4-5 in other formats due to the effect of the restricted list cards.
1. The cost: The restricted list is really hurting the format and legacy. Dual lands and power 9 are just too important and getting too expensive. The bigger issue is with supply. I think there would be some decrease in value with reprintings but we can look at some examples from Magic itself (instead of tobacco cards) to see that the older cards will retain significant value:
--A. An alpha Black Lotus is worth over $3000, Unlimited is worth about $1000
--B. An alpha Lightning Bolt is worth almost $30 (as is the Judge promo) while an M12 bolt is worth less than $1.
I think the best plan would be to reprint many of these cards as foil special editions that are sold as singles for a fraction of their value. Sell a foil black lotus with a new picture for $300. Sell the Moxen with new pictures for $150 each, etc. Sell dual lands (so people can actually read them) in playsets for $100. They could also include them as foil rares in regular packs at extreme rarity as this would certainly help them sell more packs.
2. The perception of turn 1 kills in Vintage. It is true that die rolls are more important in Vintage and you better have a way to win or stop your opponent from winning by turn 2 most times or you will certainly lose but I saw very few Vintage games end ridiculously quickly. The games tended to be interactive and fun to watch. I guess Vintage is akin to NBA basketball. Some will find it boring to see the same powerful plays used by multiple teams to give themselves the best chance to win but others will enjoy knowing that they are watching the highest level of the game they love. I guess Legacy is NCAA and Standard is High School in this analogy, haha. Perhaps Modern is semi-pro?
3. I stated this before in this thread but I think maybe it deserves repeating. Wizards does not give a crap about eternal formats. They care about making money; they are a business. They will give the most support to things that make them money (aka Standard and Limited, BUY MOAR PACKS!). More people playing Vintage and Legacy probably means less people playing their cash cows and that makes for a sad wizard with a droopy wizard's hat. They realized that EDH doesn't really draw much from the same player pool as competitive standard (or feed the same desire); then they made a profit and moved on. I think they could make a ton following my plan above but maybe they know something I don't or are really just that serious about the reserved list and don't want to anger a few thirty-five year old basement dwellers that have never heard of a 401K or an IRA.
I personally hope something happens to revive vintage as it seems like such an incredible format and Magic at its most powerful. Reprinting of too-expensive staples and more sanctioned tournaments seem like the best ideas. Maybe they could sanction proxy tournaments at FNM, PTQ or GP levels but require no proxies at PTs, Nationals and Worlds?
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I know, I have a Time Vault Deck that is protected by Force, Spell Pierce and the like. I don't need a breakdown.
anyone misunderstanding at this point read this as it pertains to the modern Format:
Obviously Solaran_X and Binary Missed all of the already's and were thrown by the comment about first turn kills. YES, they are possible in modern. So stop attacking me just because you misunderstand my post!
So you're saying that because a deck contains a two-card combo, we should classify the deck as a combo deck?
Should decks with Helm/Leyline be reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Hexmage/Depths be reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Foundry/Sword to reclassified to combo?
Should decks with Painter/Grindstone be reclassified to combo?
I mean...it's a two card combo (sometimes two two-card combos) being put into a control deck as a win condition. That doesn't suddenly turn the entire deck into a combo deck. A combo deck is a deck like the Dredge variants, or the Storm variants. Or the old school Academy lists. Saying I'm playing a combo deck because I Tinkered into a Blightsteel on turn 2 is a pretty bad way to try and make Vintage look bad by insinuating that every other deck is combo.
If a two card combo makes a deck into a combo deck...then every single format is dominated by combo. Not just Vintage.
As for "lack" of tournaments - go to the tournament announcements section of www.themanadrain.com
I can typically find about 3-5 tournaments a month within a 5 hour drive of my house.
Well that explains why you have such a horrible view of Vintage - you're considering every single U/x Control deck to be a combo deck because of Tinker or Time Vault.
That's a pretty terrible way of looking at the format. If this was just your opinion, I could live it. Unfortunately, you're causing the community a lot of harm by telling the uninformed that Vintage is dominated by combo by considering all decks that run Tinker or Time Vault to be a combo deck just like Storm, Dredge, and Dragon.
I would have to consider those combos, not on the same level as say Tendrils Combo. But also, not the same level of combo as say Sensei's Divining Top + Voltaic Key
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
But would you tell someone that a deck running any of those two cards combos is a combo deck? Or are they merely a two card combo serving as a win condition in a non-combo deck? As an example, would you say Dark Times is a combo deck because it has Helm/Leyline and Hexmage/Depths? Or would you say Thopter Sword in Legacy is a combo deck because it has Foundry/Sword in it?
Considering I gave you the opportunity to settle this off of the public forum (which you were apparently not interested in), I will make this my final post on the matter as this thread is officially Jacked. Sorry to the OP.
Types:
1. Aggro
2. Control
3. Combo
Sub Types:
A. Aggro-Control
B. Mid-Range
C. Control-Combo
D. Aggro-Combo
E. Aggro-Control-Combo
If you are proposing that a deck utilizing a two card combo/ Infinite that"wins the game" upon resolve/activation, can exist outside of Type 3 or Sub Types C, D and E, I would love to hear a more in depth analysis of why.
here's a definition of Control-Combo I found online, first search result:
Sounds a lot like you're so called "Control deck."
Actually, I had already written my post when I noticed your message. But whatever.
A Combo deck wins by using it's combo. Let's look at accepted Combo decks in Vintage.
TPS, ANT, Drain Tendrils, Bob Tendrils, et al win by generating a massive Storm count and then hitting you with Tendrils.
Turtle Dredge, Fatestitcher Dredge, Manaless Dredge, et al win by putting a lot of their cards in the bin, and replaying certain ones by flashing back freebies (Narcomoebas) and generating a lot of Zombies and swinging.
Dragon wins by generating infinite mana because of the interaction between Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead/Necromancy and Worldgorger Dragon, then reanimating Oona, Queen of the Fae and milling the opponent's entire library while generating a slew of Fairy tokens and gaining a lot of life.
These decks are Combo decks - their only win is their Combo, and if you can disrupt the Combo...they cannot win. Storm decks have a hell of a time beating MUD lists because of Thorn of Amethyst/Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere/Lodestone Golem packages. Dredge lists have a hell of a time beating Leyline of the Void/Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus. Dragon has the same weaknesses as Dredge, and the added weakness to a well-timed Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile.
Without the combo, Combo decks lose. There are no alternatives - they're all-in on that combo, win or lose.
Now...let's look at Jace Bob Control/Jace Gush Control/Bob Gush Control. By your definition, these are "Combo" decks (although now you're also acknowledging that they are Control as well). If I lose one half of either of my "combos" (Tinker/Blightsteel Colossus or Time Vault/Voltaic Key), do I fold on the spot because my win condition is gone?
No. I am not a Combo deck. You did not stop me from winning. I can, and have, won with beat down by Dark Confidants and Trygon Predators while continuing to control the board well enough to protect my 2/1s and 2/3s.
Or am I, according to you, an Aggro/Control/Combo superdeck?
Let's look at Dark Times. Mono-black deck that includes 4 Leyline of the Void, 1 Helm of Obedience, 4 Vampire Hexmage, and 2-3 Dark Depths. According to you, this is a Combo deck. However, the deck has no other combo elements - the rest of the deck is a mono-black control list. Thoughtseize, Duress, Diabolic Edict, etc., etc. With Necropotence and Dark Confidant for draws. And Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and (sometimes) Imperial Seal for tutoring.
This is another Control deck with a Combo finisher...but is not stopped by preventing it's two combos. It can still swing en masse with Hexmages and Dark Confidants for the win (and I have many times), protected by my discard and creature destruction.
Is this Control, or another Aggro/Control/Combo superdeck that uses all three roles?
No it's...
A. Lack of interest
B. People assuming the format is won on coin tosses
C. Proxies
It's like me saying I'm not miserable because I have a cold the problem is my...
A. Headache
B. Runny Nose
C. Sore Eyes
Of course not being able to reprint staples is what is killing the format all the other problems listed are just SYMPTOMS of that problem.
The reprint list is asinine. They can only lose by restricting what they are able to reprint. More customers would be better off if they didn't collude with the high end secondary market by agreeing not to reprint the big bling. They should be appeasing customers, not a small segment of the secondary market.
And it really is just the collectors (and likely the big stores) who would be mad at Wizards abolishing the Reserved List and reprinting the big money cards in some form. I have yet to meet a Vintage player who supported the idea of the Reserved List or refused to play an opponent with proxied Power and such in a friendly game.
It seems, at least to me, that most Vintage players play simply for the love of the game.
Reach out and torch someone . . .
Except for the semi-regular Vintage events (IE - within a five hour drive of where I live) that award Power and other format staples (such as Mana Drains) to top placers.
Besides...as I've said before...most Vintage players play for the love of the game, not the phat lootz they can win in tournaments. Vintage is the only format where you can play with every single card you own (that doesn't involve ante or flipping the card)...Vintage is the purest form of Magic (with the least restrictions).
I think the bigger companies favored the removal of the reserved list last time it was discussed (right before they made their "last" change to the policy a few years ago).
They know that any reprint would be in a limited premium form and, while it may drop the value of existing reserve list cards, if it would breathe life into Vintage and increase legacy's popularity even more, that means more singles sold over all, more tournaments they can hold, etc.