So, my question to you is this. Do you think that you could help build the best Vintage legal budget deck ever? I'm thinking that one could make a deck for $300 or less that could almost certainly win T2 every time. Do you think something Meandeck Tendrils-esque would work with this budget? I'm thinking that with proper mana acceleration we could do this. The first thing to consider are the fastest easiest combos. I just found in another thread the combo of Grindstone and Painter's Servant. I have to rank this 6 mana combo as one of the fastest that I have seen. Angel's Grace can combo with lots of cards like Ad Nauseum and Channel, although I haven't researched enough to see if it can combo for an instant win for a small amount of mana. Possibly something with Intruder Alarm? Any ideas are welcome.
Decks do not exist in a vacuum. Goldfishing for the win is not a good indicator of a good deck, While it is certainly possible to create a cheap combo deck, good and best is another thing
If we're talking about an extreme budget, I'd rather build a gw zoo/hate or even elves rather than attempt to substitute the power cards in a combo deck.
Anyway, if we're talking about painter's servant, a teammate ran this in a recent vintage tournament (landing 7th):
First, at the original post, there is no such thing as a deck that wins every time. Even your $300 T2 deck will lose. It is the nature of the game. Formats shift, you have to mulligan, you topdeck poorly...there are a lot of factors that affect the outcome of a game. Not just how well your deck is built. Granted, that most certainly helps, but if I built T2 superfriends for $300, and play Red Deck Wins 4 times in a tournament, I'm probably going to go 1-3 or 0-4 in the tournament.
Vintage is an even more impossible-to-tackle animal, because the format is SO diverse. Standard right now is pretty much aggro vs control with one random combo deck thrown in there. You walk into a vintage tournament and can expect to see about 16 different decks spanning the whole aggro-combo-control spectrum. That makes this exercise even more difficult.
Now, if you think Painterstone is the fastest combo you've ever seen, than vintage isn't for you. A 6 mana combo will not win in this format, when there are Threemana combos that win the game (or at least give you infinite turns) well before your combo comes online. Oh yeah, and unless you're playing Tezz or stax, everyone runs Null Rod in vintage. And Tezz and Stax both have ways of dealing with your combo.
If you do want to build a budget deck, I agree that W/x hate is probably going to be your best bet. Something along the lines of the old TMWA decks (the Mindsensor wins again). Run things like Aven Mindsensor to shut down tutors and fetches, Samurai of the Pale Curtain to shut down dredge and dragon and anything else that wants to abuse the graveyard. If you want to add red you get Magus of the Moon to hose duals/Bazaars/Wastelands, you get Viashino Heretic to beat artifact based decks, Mox Monkey does this well also. You'll need ways to beat combo, but that's the nature of this format, you can't beat it all with one fell swoop. If you could, vintage wouldn't exist.
Edit: Ok, so I guess Vault/key is technically a 4 mana combo, but the point still stands.
Decks do not exist in a vacuum. Goldfishing for the win is not a good indicator of a good deck, While it is certainly possible to create a cheap combo deck, good and best is another thing
If we're talking about an extreme budget, I'd rather build a gw zoo/hate or even elves rather than attempt to substitute the power cards in a combo deck.
Anyway, if we're talking about painter's servant, a teammate ran this in a recent vintage tournament (landing 7th):
I think Elves! or some sort of G/x haterade build is the best "budget" deck.
Elves! does (less) unfair things than other combo decks, but it still *does* go off on turn 3 reliably. Also, instant backup plan, where you can (and often do) beat down with a whooole bunch of elves to win.
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Be they worthy or just plain riff-raff, my warhead shall punish all without distinction. -Rip Van Winkle
Not gonna lie, that deck looks pretty cool. Though I have no idea why there are two vault of the whispers?
For the academy.
Academy is there to get the painter-grinds out early.
Would probably have put more vaults, except that magus of the moon was already a serious problem. Null rod as well, I'd imagine.
(note that while the decklist had a black lotus in the final list, this was an last-moment inclusion; there was probably as spare lotus on the day of the tournament)
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
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If we're talking about an extreme budget, I'd rather build a gw zoo/hate or even elves rather than attempt to substitute the power cards in a combo deck.
Anyway, if we're talking about painter's servant, a teammate ran this in a recent vintage tournament (landing 7th):
2 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
2 Vault of Whispers
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Stripmine
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
2 Dark Depths
4 Painter' Servant
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sign in Blood
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Extirpate
1 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Grindstone
1 Sensei'sDivining Top
2 Skullclamp
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Yixlid Jailer
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Diabolic Edict
Unpowered.
Other decks in that tournament:
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1304
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I love the random oops synergy of grindstone and extirpate
Vintage is an even more impossible-to-tackle animal, because the format is SO diverse. Standard right now is pretty much aggro vs control with one random combo deck thrown in there. You walk into a vintage tournament and can expect to see about 16 different decks spanning the whole aggro-combo-control spectrum. That makes this exercise even more difficult.
Now, if you think Painterstone is the fastest combo you've ever seen, than vintage isn't for you. A 6 mana combo will not win in this format, when there are Three mana combos that win the game (or at least give you infinite turns) well before your combo comes online. Oh yeah, and unless you're playing Tezz or stax, everyone runs Null Rod in vintage. And Tezz and Stax both have ways of dealing with your combo.
If you do want to build a budget deck, I agree that W/x hate is probably going to be your best bet. Something along the lines of the old TMWA decks (the Mindsensor wins again). Run things like Aven Mindsensor to shut down tutors and fetches, Samurai of the Pale Curtain to shut down dredge and dragon and anything else that wants to abuse the graveyard. If you want to add red you get Magus of the Moon to hose duals/Bazaars/Wastelands, you get Viashino Heretic to beat artifact based decks, Mox Monkey does this well also. You'll need ways to beat combo, but that's the nature of this format, you can't beat it all with one fell swoop. If you could, vintage wouldn't exist.
Edit: Ok, so I guess Vault/key is technically a 4 mana combo, but the point still stands.
There was an unpowered mono-red there, too.
I think Elves! or some sort of G/x haterade build is the best "budget" deck.
Elves! does (less) unfair things than other combo decks, but it still *does* go off on turn 3 reliably. Also, instant backup plan, where you can (and often do) beat down with a whooole bunch of elves to win.
For the academy.
Academy is there to get the painter-grinds out early.
Would probably have put more vaults, except that magus of the moon was already a serious problem. Null rod as well, I'd imagine.
(note that while the decklist had a black lotus in the final list, this was an last-moment inclusion; there was probably as spare lotus on the day of the tournament)
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn