I have been toying with some ideas, but they are very preliminary. Trying to work on an aggro deck. Fish like with a green splash instead of a black splash. The deck is not going so well at the moment.
Green does not offer much in vintage other than creatures.
But to add to the list of cards that can't be played
Gifts
Fact or fiction
empty the warrens
leyline of the void
massacre
uba mask
I've tried Gaddock Teeg in three decks already - UGW Fish, GWB Fish-style Thing and GW Mana Denial. In my opinion the GW list has been best; it can secure a lock fairly quickly and then attack with creatures.
Metal_Militia
And that list is shorter than any of the other colors. There are some good Green cards, but not enough to make a cohesive strategy around.
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I think this card has the most potential in GW fish, with Weathered Wayfarer, Life from Loam, Mindcensor and other usual Fish cards in that color. Running it with blue seems sub optimal because once it hits the board you can't protect it with FOW. GWB might also be an option giving you Therapy/Duress as disruption. Combined with other hate it could bring fish back to the format.
In your UGw Fish, shouldn't it will be better to put aether vial somewhere ? Maybe instead of all those Moxes and black lotus ? Putting Gaddock in instant when someone is trying to play something that cost 4 or more can be fun for you, and horrible of the other player
In your UGw Fish, shouldn't it will be better to put aether vial somewhere ? Maybe instead of all those Moxes and black lotus ? Putting Gaddock in instant when someone is trying to play something that cost 4 or more can be fun for you, and horrible of the other player
Fun yes, cute trick yes, but not needed. I would rather play those moxen and have the ability to do thing on turn one which is very important in vintage.
Is tarmogoyf better than Jotun Grunt though. Yes i know it can be bigger but isn't anti will tech better in type 1.
Fun yes, cute trick yes, but not needed. I would rather play those moxen and have the ability to do thing on turn one which is very important in vintage.
Is tarmogoyf better than Jotun Grunt though. Yes i know it can be bigger but isn't anti will tech better in type 1.
@ Scravenger: Aether Vial is not needed.
@ Stupid: Grunt is a tempo loss in the aggro goals of the deck if drawn in multiples, where as Tarmogoyf is just a constant 2cc beat stick. In testing this came up, and Goyf is just so amazing.
Wouldn't tormod's crypt work better than leyline of the void? With just black lotus producing black you have to have it in your opening hand. Try play testing it I guess, but it seems that it could be replaced to me. Although I do not play in a lot of vintage tourneys. Thoughts?
Wouldn't tormod's crypt work better than leyline of the void? With just black lotus producing black you have to have it in your opening hand. Try play testing it I guess, but it seems that it could be replaced to me. Although I do not play in a lot of vintage tourneys. Thoughts?
Leyline is run in all kinds of decks that do not support Black, that's why it's versatile. If your in a position to be hard casting Leyline, your probably in heaps of trouble anyways.
I prefer this over Crypt because of the MD stifles and Mage, hitting a turn 0 Leyline just makes it that much harder to play around. In addition, artifact removal is much more en mass in the meta game right now.
I do but I'm not too keen on spending THAT much money on cards, so I'm a Fish player.
I've been playing Fish for years now and I can tell you that you need Force FAR more than you need to stop opposing 4+ cc spells.
Against Flash he's useless, they can cast everything in their deck bar FoW and that includes 4 manaless hard counters.
Against GAT he's a minor nuisance: Rushing River, Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor and the like will deal with him and they can still cast all of their tutors and dig/draw spells except for Gush.
In the Fish mirror he does basically nothing if not being a 2/2 for GW.
Against Stax they can Tinker for Trisk and you only stop Smokestack, sure it's a pretty good card to stop, but Meddling Mage on Smokestack does just about the same thing, while staying in your colours and being more flexible in other situations.
Force of Will MUST be played in this format if you can support them and my point was that Teeg is nigh useless, while FoW are musts so playing both makes no sense to me given the limited use he has...
Well perhaps you missed the disscussion in this thread, it was about using Teeg in a deck, and if he could be relevant. Hence the posting of proto deck list's.
The thing is, if they bounce Teeg they have to get there storm up before hand, using methods that don't involve ANY 4cmc spells, because otherwise once they bounce him your FoWs open back up. Also making them do the extra flip to bounce him is about as much as you can hope for from a 2 mana critter.
Teeg, in conjunction with Chalice at 1, and/or 2 would be very hard to deal with.
You'd have to do some real tricks to get a Chalice at 2 and Teeg in play simultaneously. If you play Teeg first you can't play Chalice at anything because of the X in the casting cost, and if you played Chalice for 2 first there's the matter of Teeg costing 2.
Although getting a Chalice for 1 out first is realistic and would pretty much leave them stuck fishing for Echoing Truth.
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You'd have to do some real tricks to get a Chalice at 2 and Teeg in play simultaneously. If you play Teeg first you can't play Chalice at anything because of the X in the casting cost, and if you played Chalice for 2 first there's the matter of Teeg costing 2.
Although getting a Chalice for 1 out first is realistic and would pretty much leave them stuck fishing for Echoing Truth.
True.
Although the power of Teeg and Chalice at 1 seems ridiclous against GaT. So long as you can protect against Etruth, your laughing.
2 SoFI 3 Jitte 1 Balance - sometimes I need a reset button 1 Aura of Silence 2 Abolish 4 Swords to Plowshares 2 Exalted Angel 3 Jotun Grunt 2 Ramosan Sergeant - card advantage 3 Teeg 4 Whipcorder 4 Soltari Priests 1 Hound of Konda 4 Lion
1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Emerald 1 Sol Ring 1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland 4 Flagstones of Trokair - helps thin the deck, plus it can pull a Savannah 4 Savannah 4 Horizon Canopies - helps thin the deck 4 Plains
SB 1 Teeg 2 Silver Knight 4 Angel’s Grace - anti combo 4 Seal of Cleansing 4 Pithing Needle - anti pernicious deed
The best deck Teeg is used in is in Dawn of the Dead.
Even though a lot say that Teeg is weak in this deck, its still needed in here because a maindecked Teeg is one of the best weapons you have against combo along with the Duress and Thoughseizes.
Tarmogoyf should be in there for sure since your already using green to play teeg. Also i would rather play Fetchs then the canopies and Flagstones. Try Flooded Strand or Wooded Foothills. You should also be using deck tags.
Gaddock Teeg GW
Legendary Creature - Kithkin Advisor
Noncreature spells with converted mana cost 4 or greater can't be played.
Noncreature spells with {X} in their mana costs can't be played.
The sheer volume of good spells in Vintage that this blocks is amazing.
From Manaless Ichorid:
Dread Return
Unmask
Chalice of the Void
From GAT:
Force of Will
Misdirection
Gush
From Pitch Long:
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Force of Will
Misdirection
Mind's Desire
Tendrils of Agony
From Chang Stax:
Smokestack
Sundering Titan
Triskelion
Karn, Silver Golem
It's unfortunate that this guy happens to be two of the weaker colors in Vintage but it seems like there might be something here.
Green does not offer much in vintage other than creatures.
But to add to the list of cards that can't be played
Gifts
Fact or fiction
empty the warrens
leyline of the void
massacre
uba mask
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
In our opinion, it would best in U/G/w Threshold. With Top/Counter Balance in board. It has tested well.
Sadly, he is in such terrible colors...
It doesn't block these. Noncreature spells only.
Not that those guys get hardcasted that much in Stax anyway
This guy is looking like a splash at best... there just aren't enough decent green cards in this format.
And that list is shorter than any of the other colors. There are some good Green cards, but not enough to make a cohesive strategy around.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
Here is U/W/g Fish build I came up with and was testing against the best decks in the meta with my team, tests are good so far:
Lands
3 Savannah
4 Tundra
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
Creatures
4 Meddling Mage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Savannah Lions
3 Gaddock Teeg
Spells
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
3 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
Sideboard
3 Null Rod
2 Leyline of Singularity
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Rushing River
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Oxidize
2 Pithing Needle
And, here is the proto-thresh list I mentioned earlier:
Lands
3 Savannah
4 Tropical Island
3 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
Creatures
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
Spells
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Opt
1 Echoing Truth
2 Null Rod
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Misdirection
3 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
Sideboard
1 Null Rod
1 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Oxidize
Fun yes, cute trick yes, but not needed. I would rather play those moxen and have the ability to do thing on turn one which is very important in vintage.
Is tarmogoyf better than Jotun Grunt though. Yes i know it can be bigger but isn't anti will tech better in type 1.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
@ Scravenger: Aether Vial is not needed.
@ Stupid: Grunt is a tempo loss in the aggro goals of the deck if drawn in multiples, where as Tarmogoyf is just a constant 2cc beat stick. In testing this came up, and Goyf is just so amazing.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
Wouldn't tormod's crypt work better than leyline of the void? With just black lotus producing black you have to have it in your opening hand. Try play testing it I guess, but it seems that it could be replaced to me. Although I do not play in a lot of vintage tourneys. Thoughts?
Leyline is run in all kinds of decks that do not support Black, that's why it's versatile. If your in a position to be hard casting Leyline, your probably in heaps of trouble anyways.
I prefer this over Crypt because of the MD stifles and Mage, hitting a turn 0 Leyline just makes it that much harder to play around. In addition, artifact removal is much more en mass in the meta game right now.
Pact of negation
Daze
Mana Leak
Counterspell
Mana Drain
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795
Umm, yes. Do you even play vintage?? If so, please explain the following:
Without FoW,
How would you suggest dealing with Flash's Turn 1-3 kill zone with multiple counter backup?
How do you protect your win conditions, and defend against the opponent when Teeg is not in play?
How do protect against Turn 1 broken hands by Stax and Workshop Aggro?
etc;etc;etc;etc;etc;
This is why Daze is part of the disruption package, to give you protection when he hits the table.
Furthermore, these decks are half aggro, the loss for your opponent to play FoW, Mis-D, and on other 4cc spells is much more crippling.
Well perhaps you missed the disscussion in this thread, it was about using Teeg in a deck, and if he could be relevant. Hence the posting of proto deck list's.
This is why Fish decks's run Daze, Mana Drain, Mana Leak, Counterspell, R.E.B.'s, Pyroblast etc; etc; etc; etc;.
The fact that he stops Gush alone, is huge in the current Meta.
Yes, he would shut out your FoW, so what? He shut's out their:
~FoW
~Gush
~Tendrils
~Warrens
Teeg, in conjunction with Chalice at 1, and/or 2 would be very hard to deal with.
You'd have to do some real tricks to get a Chalice at 2 and Teeg in play simultaneously. If you play Teeg first you can't play Chalice at anything because of the X in the casting cost, and if you played Chalice for 2 first there's the matter of Teeg costing 2.
Although getting a Chalice for 1 out first is realistic and would pretty much leave them stuck fishing for Echoing Truth.
True.
Although the power of Teeg and Chalice at 1 seems ridiclous against GaT. So long as you can protect against Etruth, your laughing.
2 SoFI
3 Jitte
1 Balance - sometimes I need a reset button
1 Aura of Silence
2 Abolish
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Exalted Angel
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Ramosan Sergeant - card advantage
3 Teeg
4 Whipcorder
4 Soltari Priests
1 Hound of Konda
4 Lion
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Flagstones of Trokair - helps thin the deck, plus it can pull a Savannah
4 Savannah
4 Horizon Canopies - helps thin the deck
4 Plains
SB
1 Teeg
2 Silver Knight
4 Angel’s Grace - anti combo
4 Seal of Cleansing
4 Pithing Needle - anti pernicious deed
Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even though a lot say that Teeg is weak in this deck, its still needed in here because a maindecked Teeg is one of the best weapons you have against combo along with the Duress and Thoughseizes.
Tarmogoyf should be in there for sure since your already using green to play teeg. Also i would rather play Fetchs then the canopies and Flagstones. Try Flooded Strand or Wooded Foothills. You should also be using deck tags.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B