When I just did a checkup on CubeCobra by having 8 bots draft, every single one of them went with a WUBR pile and put their green cards in their sideboard.
When I just did a checkup on CubeCobra by having 8 bots draft, every single one of them went with a WUBR pile and put their green cards in their sideboard.
Yea the draft bots are simply broken for playtesting hahaha. Maybe wirh higher powered cube it's more realistic but even then, there's always at least mono colored player, maybe 3 3c+, and the rest are 2 colors...
I have not done a lot with Cube Cobra's drafter, so I figured I would try it after all of your experiences. No joke, the bots really do hate green. All but 1 bot drafted 4+ colors and only two had green in the main deck. Of those green decks, one had Spider Spawning and no other green cards.
I can't really talk about the other two, but I do run Seal Away. It is by no means top-tier removal, but control appreciates flash and white has a fair number of ways to tap creatures, so it can hit blockers/static ability creatures in a pinch. Pacifism has the upside of locking down blockers (without requiring a tapper), but the fact the creature can still activate abilities, tap, crew vehicles, be sacrificed/bounced, etc. leads me to favor Seal Away. But, the difference is not that great.
I am not sure. Oona's Prowler is both an enabler and aggro threat (1B for a 3/1 flier is pretty good), whereas Putrid Imp seems more like just an enabler (1/1 or 2/2 that cannot block is not great). I was hesitant to add Putrid Imp to my cube since I did not feel like I needed an all-in card, but one that had some upside for other strategy. Cabal Initiate has better stats than Putrid Imp and can grow to a 3/3 with mill/dredge. The other options would be something like Olivia's Dragoon or Vampire Hounds which are not really exciting. I guess I can always hope that it gets downshifted at some point in the future.
I mean, Heirloom Mirror was felt by many to be too much of a do-nothing as a black discard outlet despite rummaging and evolving into a big flier at the end. Cabal Initiate just does not have the stats and the lifelinking only really matters if you get through which is unlikely unless you are already at Threshold. Plus, a card for an expected 2 life is... not great. I would rather (and do) run Miasmic Mummy, for example. The timing is more restrictive but at least it is symmetrical and can even go to an aggressive deck at times without being a high priority pick for those.
Cards in my cube that I was surprised didn't make it into the aggregate cube:
Coalition Honor Guard - If you're looking for straight-up power level, this is it. Privileged Position attached to a 2/4 is nothing to sneeze at. I find this works best in combo-oriented decks (like ones running Soulherder) as a way to protect their pieces.
Blinding Beam - I'd encourage you to cast this a few times and see how it feels. If you play powered removal this card goes down, but if your cube emphasizes the board state, this straight up wins you the board for 2 turns.
Nevermaker - Decent stats any way you cast it, and enables soft-locks if you support flicker.
Can't speak highly enough about these.
With my cube at 360, there's not much chaff. When every deck is going to have 30+ playables anyway, these land-spells make for more interesting picks, as they are inherently less powerful than the average spell but will increase the spell-density of your deck. I also like mechanics that alleviate screw.
Cards in my cube that I was surprised didn't make it into the aggregate cube:
Coalition Honor Guard - If you're looking for straight-up power level, this is it. Privileged Position attached to a 2/4 is nothing to sneeze at. I find this works best in combo-oriented decks (like ones running Soulherder) as a way to protect their pieces.
I ran this until about a year ago. I liked it in theory but honestly never saw it shine. A lot of times I saw it in sideboards rather than maindecks, which is a shame because I never really got to judge it for what it can do. I eventually cut it when I decided to make room for the Thriving lands.
Dumped the top 360 into a Cubecobra cube so it's easy to use the compare lists feature.
I don't run any of the top 360 cards you mention except for Mortarpod, which is mostly just a filler for the artifact section and if you need another outlet for the sacrifice deck. Will get cut as soon as I find something better.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Ghor-Clan Rampager were cut not so long ago. Gray Merchant is great in mono black, but Vampire Sovereign is better anywhere else and I even cut that one for being boring. Gruul has tons of great options now so I don't feel the need to run the mediocre Rampager. Never had any of the others in my cube.
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Bastion of Remembrance is great for the sacrifice deck as it's very hard to remove. Easily worth the additional mana over Zulaport Cutthroat, but I run both and don't plan to cut one of them anytime soon.
Sphinx of the Guildpact is from a limited set with lots of multicolor removal. In CU/be there is hardly any. A 5/5 flyer with hexproof would be good enough for a colored section easily, as a colorless creature it's just awesome as it can go into any deck.
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Gush is such a great card for any low curve deck that is 50%+ blue, no idea why this isn't more popular. And it's even playable in a higher curve deck as eventually you will run out of lands to play and then you can get a draw spell for free. Should be a cube staple from my pov.
Cut Consul's Lieutenant because it's a WW card that wants to be cast on turn 2 if possible at all, which is pure luck outside of mono white. For 1W it would be a no-brainer obviously.
I guess Soltari Champion isn't as popular because some people avoid shadow as a mechnic and because it's an online-only uncommon? Because other than that it's one of the best cards in white for sure and should also be a staple.
To be honest I had no idea that Imperial Recruiter is so cheap now. I was never a huge fan of it, but this makes me reconsider it as it's a fun card at least. Will see if I can find room for it.
Cut Gaea's Anthem because it's the wrong color and green has other ways to pump their creatures. Personally I allow up to one (reasonable) rare per color to fill holes I can't fill otherwise so I run Glorious Anthem in white instead where this effect fits much better.
Fire Covenant can be a brutal removal card, I even cut it for some time because I felt in some games it was too unfair when you could get a 3 for 1 for a few points of life and 3 mana.
Had Goblin Trenches in for a while, but it's a slow all-or-nothing card and I don't like that.
Calibretto - Thanks for sorting this out again. Legend.
(technically it's the top 372 but the extra 12 cards were as popular as the 351st card so I figure it's less arbirtrary this way)
I'm very surprised to see that Clarion Spirit is not on the top 372, the card is incredible.
Thanks Calibretto for the work and n00b1n8R for the condensed list!
Obviously, Gaea's Anthem is a good card, but I think more than the "wrong color" argument, it's that Curse of Predation exists at virtually the same mana cost and is doing a very similar - if not superior, more on theme - job. I've often thought about running both myself, but I imagine there's not room for both at smaller sizes.
I'm running Gaea's Anthem. I feel Curse of Predation is OP and stopped running it long ago. I believe some others have done so too.
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I wish all archetypes could be equally hated. Or loved, but the former better reflects the mindset of the vocal portion of the player base. My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Yeah i axed Curse of Predation (and Curse of Shallow Graves) in like 2015 for being too strong. I like the format better when there aren't many uninteractive game warping bombs. There's a certainlu more effective enchantment/artifact removal in the format today so perhaps it's time to revisit those cards (and Loxodon Warhammer and Grafted Wargear).
I'm running both Gaea's Anthem and Curse of Predation at 400. Green is the color of big, beefy creatures, so ways to make them bigger and beefier feel on theme to me. If I could only run one, it would be Curse of Predation, as it has better synergy with the +1/+1 counter archetype, and its boost sticks around even after it gets destroyed.
We have so many removal pieces now that don't require a dedicated slot like Disenchant - think Cathar Commando, Dawnbringer Cleric, Thrashing Brontodon, Qasali Pridemage, all of which offer other options or at least a body - as well as so much efficient removal that can kill a creature no matter how big it grows, that I find these cards don't have to be a bogeyman if we run enough answers.
I am curious about certain cards high on the Average Peasant Cube list that people are not playing for any specific reason. I have 8 cards played by 25 or more of the 40 participating cubes that are not in my 512 card cube for a variety of reasons.
Wall of Omens, Filigree Familiar, and Pyroclasm are all cards that I think damage aggro too much in the early game. Into the Roil and Temur Sabertooth both feel like generic value cards that push towards really grindy games. That said, maybe there is a little more setup to Temur Sabertooth than I think, but I imagine that card gets extremely oppressive with any other ETB creature. Sentinel of the Eternal Watch is weird for me. I want most of my white cards to be aggro focused, which this certainly is not. And it both feels too dominating against certain board states while also generating little value if it gets removed early. Icy Manipulator is out for no specific reason, I suppose. It just seems a little boring. Cloudkin Seer is only out because I wanted the weird Mystery Booster card Innocuous Insect in and felt this was the best replacement.
I am curious about certain cards high on the Average Peasant Cube list that people are not playing for any specific reason. I have 8 cards played by 25 or more of the 40 participating cubes that are not in my 512 card cube for a variety of reasons.
I don't have my cube 100% updated as I haven't gotten to take it out in about 1,5 years. Still, aggro's a bit too strong and none of these cards have posed problems for me. I've only cut one such card that I feel is too good at fleecing aggro.
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I wish all archetypes could be equally hated. Or loved, but the former better reflects the mindset of the vocal portion of the player base. My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
It's that time of year again, friends. I try to do these just before or after the final set of the year and here we are. Definitely some interesting new inclusions, cards that jumped some spots, cards that fell some spots and cards that fell completely off from last year.
I hope this project is as useful to you as it is to me. I really feel like a new peasant cuber could basically take to top 360 cards here and build a pretty decent cube to start with. I enjoying seeing stuff that I might be over or under valuing throughout the year. I noticed a lot of Commander Legends stuff that I need to take a second look at in my next update.
Thaaaank you very much for putting this together! It is very useful and much appreciated. I would even go so far as to say that I love it
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch is weird for me. I want most of my white cards to be aggro focused, which this certainly is not. And it both feels too dominating against certain board states while also generating little value if it gets removed early.
For my peasant list, white is as much a control color as it is an aggro color. In addition to it's suite of removal spells, I'm also running cards like Ghostly Prison and Dovin, Hand of Control to help facilitate this.
Into the Roil and Temur Sabertooth both feel like generic value cards that push towards really grindy games. That said, maybe there is a little more setup to Temur Sabertooth than I think, but I imagine that card gets extremely oppressive with any other ETB creature.
Into the Roil is just a good value card. It's been in and out a few times over the years. It's good in both tempo and control decks and that's why it keeps coming back. Temur Sabretooth plays toward the blink/bounce strategy in Bant. It's also great at protecting both itself as well as your other creatures. It is a grindy monster, but I guess that's what I like about it.
Icy Manipulator is out for no specific reason, I suppose. It just seems a little boring.
Classic card is classic. It has one job and does it pretty well. Also, again, I'm trying to support control decks in some fashion and Icy fits right into those shells.
Cloudkin Seer is only out because I wanted the weird Mystery Booster card Innocuous Insect in and felt this was the best replacement.
I think the Seer is one of the best cards to have come out in the past few years for peasant (and pauper) cubes. It's an evasive threat that replaces itself. What more could you ask for at common for 2U?
Was kind of surprised to see that Calciderm and Blastoderm are down to 10-14 lists this year. For those that have cut them, have you ever missed them? They've actually felt kind of underwhelming lately and I really dislike having to explain/remember the difference between Vanishing and Fading.
In my case, I think that they were cut mostly because there are so many more interesting choices. They are still strong - especially when hasted - but they just interact with almost nothing that you can do, either, because of Shroud.
While they both still seem good to me, I feel there's a bit of a difference between the two. Blastoderm is more in line with what green wants in my cube (a big, hard-hitting, difficult-to-deal-with threat, which especially if brought out a turn early via a mana-elf, can be game winning). I even run a few cards in green like Heir of the Wilds and Nessian Hornbeetle (used to run Kronch Wrangler too) that specifically want 4-power-or-greater creatures. Meanwhile, Calciderm is just a good card that doesn't really line up with the token, +1/+1 counter, and aura stuff white is doing in my cube. Also, it coming down on turn four instead of turn three - as Blastoderm often does - doesn't feel as impactful.
It's been a long time since I ran either of the 'derms. There's just more powerful things you can do at those costs in both green and white. If I wanted a big dumb beater in green, I'd be looking at Iwamori. He has some evasion in trample and he sticks around forever (barring removal, of course). There's also Cytoplast Root-Kin or Bannerhide Krushok that both help with other strategies besides just beating down. White doesn't have much in the big dumb beater category, but that's also not really what white is looking to do. Those beat down decks tend to go wide and overwhelm.
Another issue with the 'derms, IMO, is their lack of any sort of evasion. If you can cast them early and get in a couple times, that's great, but there's just so many dispensable blockers running around nowadays with recursive creatures or tokens. It's very easy to just watch the timer tick down on your 5/5 for no real value.
thx for the list and all the other Peasant spoiler discussions, I was able to update my cube alot with it. I stopped playing around 2019, am updating now. Inspiring Overseer seems insane btw.
thx for the list and all the other Peasant spoiler discussions, I was able to update my cube alot with it. I stopped playing around 2019, am updating now. Inspiring Overseer seems insane btw.
Glad you found it helpful! Stick around and I'll be putting together the 2022 list in a couple months.
Huge thank you for this! Recently moved to a new area and want to be able to cube with people but my regular cube is not proxied and I don't want to worry about theft. So, I just started building a peasant cube. Figure it could be a stepping stone that allows me to find a playgroup I can trust with the regular cube -- also just something I could take anywhere with less concern.
My process for building my peasant cube started by extracting commons/uncommons from my regular cube. Unsurprisingly, they pretty much all translate to peasant. Then I self identified some powerhouse uncommons that fell just short of my regular cube list, those also are in most peasant lists. Next, I looked at peasant archetypes from existing lists, identified the key role players for the archetypes I would also want. Next, I used this list to identify my outliers. I identified outliers as the cards I am running which appeared in less than 15 other lists or the cards I'm not running which appeared in 15 or more lists. My last steps are looking at 2022 peasant threads for inclusions from this year that and then filling in a few gaps to complete the list.
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Well, green is clearly the worst color.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Yea the draft bots are simply broken for playtesting hahaha. Maybe wirh higher powered cube it's more realistic but even then, there's always at least mono colored player, maybe 3 3c+, and the rest are 2 colors...
I can't really talk about the other two, but I do run Seal Away. It is by no means top-tier removal, but control appreciates flash and white has a fair number of ways to tap creatures, so it can hit blockers/static ability creatures in a pinch. Pacifism has the upside of locking down blockers (without requiring a tapper), but the fact the creature can still activate abilities, tap, crew vehicles, be sacrificed/bounced, etc. leads me to favor Seal Away. But, the difference is not that great.
I am not sure. Oona's Prowler is both an enabler and aggro threat (1B for a 3/1 flier is pretty good), whereas Putrid Imp seems more like just an enabler (1/1 or 2/2 that cannot block is not great). I was hesitant to add Putrid Imp to my cube since I did not feel like I needed an all-in card, but one that had some upside for other strategy. Cabal Initiate has better stats than Putrid Imp and can grow to a 3/3 with mill/dredge. The other options would be something like Olivia's Dragoon or Vampire Hounds which are not really exciting. I guess I can always hope that it gets downshifted at some point in the future.
Makes sense. I will keep testing. Thanks!
My 2-Player Signed Legacy Cube
My Lord of the Rings Cube
Coalition Honor Guard - If you're looking for straight-up power level, this is it. Privileged Position attached to a 2/4 is nothing to sneeze at. I find this works best in combo-oriented decks (like ones running Soulherder) as a way to protect their pieces.
Blinding Beam - I'd encourage you to cast this a few times and see how it feels. If you play powered removal this card goes down, but if your cube emphasizes the board state, this straight up wins you the board for 2 turns.
Nevermaker - Decent stats any way you cast it, and enables soft-locks if you support flicker.
Pondering Mage - Pretty comparable to mulldrifter.
Hobgoblin Captain - Maybe people are slow on updating their lists? Not sure why War-Name Aspirant made it but this didn't.
Havoc Jester - Most people run some sort of sac archetype, right? I feel like this fits the bill, though if 5 CMC is a deal breaker I can buy that.
Captured By Legacs - Don't sleep on this one. Pacifism that hits hard is a real beating.
Spell lands:
Makindi Stampede
Jwari Disruption
Pelakka Predation
Spikefield Hazard
Can't speak highly enough about these.
With my cube at 360, there's not much chaff. When every deck is going to have 30+ playables anyway, these land-spells make for more interesting picks, as they are inherently less powerful than the average spell but will increase the spell-density of your deck. I also like mechanics that alleviate screw.
I've never tried any of the others you listed
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/mtgs2021p360
Calibretto - Thanks for sorting this out again. Legend.
(technically it's the top 372 but the extra 12 cards were as popular as the 351st card so I figure it's less arbirtrary this way)
Surprised to see the following cards in the top 360. I thought these fell off the powerlevel cliff years ago:
Master Splicer
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Ghor-Clan Rampager
Mortarpod
Spider Spawning (I cut it years ago feeling that the support wasn't good enough. Are we there yet?)
How good is:
Slaughter the Strong
Waker of Waves (compared to Phyrexian Ingester)
Sling-Gang Lieutenant compared to Marsh Flitter
Bastion of Remembrance (better than Zulaport Cutthroat?)
Rimrock Knight
Tibalt, Rakish Instigator
Frilled Mystic
Tatyova, Benthic Druid
Sphinx of the Guildpact
Surprised these cards are not as popular
Gush
Consul's Lieutenant
Soltari Champion
Imperial Recruiter (this is a <$10 card now! surely it's not budget that's keeping this guy down in 2021)
Gaea's Anthem (just a wrong-colour thing?)
Fire Covenant
Goblin Trenches
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I don't run any of the top 360 cards you mention except for Mortarpod, which is mostly just a filler for the artifact section and if you need another outlet for the sacrifice deck. Will get cut as soon as I find something better.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Ghor-Clan Rampager were cut not so long ago. Gray Merchant is great in mono black, but Vampire Sovereign is better anywhere else and I even cut that one for being boring. Gruul has tons of great options now so I don't feel the need to run the mediocre Rampager. Never had any of the others in my cube.
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Bastion of Remembrance is great for the sacrifice deck as it's very hard to remove. Easily worth the additional mana over Zulaport Cutthroat, but I run both and don't plan to cut one of them anytime soon.
Sphinx of the Guildpact is from a limited set with lots of multicolor removal. In CU/be there is hardly any. A 5/5 flyer with hexproof would be good enough for a colored section easily, as a colorless creature it's just awesome as it can go into any deck.
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Gush is such a great card for any low curve deck that is 50%+ blue, no idea why this isn't more popular. And it's even playable in a higher curve deck as eventually you will run out of lands to play and then you can get a draw spell for free. Should be a cube staple from my pov.
Cut Consul's Lieutenant because it's a WW card that wants to be cast on turn 2 if possible at all, which is pure luck outside of mono white. For 1W it would be a no-brainer obviously.
I guess Soltari Champion isn't as popular because some people avoid shadow as a mechnic and because it's an online-only uncommon? Because other than that it's one of the best cards in white for sure and should also be a staple.
To be honest I had no idea that Imperial Recruiter is so cheap now. I was never a huge fan of it, but this makes me reconsider it as it's a fun card at least. Will see if I can find room for it.
Cut Gaea's Anthem because it's the wrong color and green has other ways to pump their creatures. Personally I allow up to one (reasonable) rare per color to fill holes I can't fill otherwise so I run Glorious Anthem in white instead where this effect fits much better.
Fire Covenant can be a brutal removal card, I even cut it for some time because I felt in some games it was too unfair when you could get a 3 for 1 for a few points of life and 3 mana.
Had Goblin Trenches in for a while, but it's a slow all-or-nothing card and I don't like that.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
I'm very surprised to see that Clarion Spirit is not on the top 372, the card is incredible.
Thanks Calibretto for the work and n00b1n8R for the condensed list!
My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
We have so many removal pieces now that don't require a dedicated slot like Disenchant - think Cathar Commando, Dawnbringer Cleric, Thrashing Brontodon, Qasali Pridemage, all of which offer other options or at least a body - as well as so much efficient removal that can kill a creature no matter how big it grows, that I find these cards don't have to be a bogeyman if we run enough answers.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Wall of Omens, Filigree Familiar, and Pyroclasm are all cards that I think damage aggro too much in the early game.
Into the Roil and Temur Sabertooth both feel like generic value cards that push towards really grindy games. That said, maybe there is a little more setup to Temur Sabertooth than I think, but I imagine that card gets extremely oppressive with any other ETB creature.
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch is weird for me. I want most of my white cards to be aggro focused, which this certainly is not. And it both feels too dominating against certain board states while also generating little value if it gets removed early.
Icy Manipulator is out for no specific reason, I suppose. It just seems a little boring.
Cloudkin Seer is only out because I wanted the weird Mystery Booster card Innocuous Insect in and felt this was the best replacement.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I don't have my cube 100% updated as I haven't gotten to take it out in about 1,5 years. Still, aggro's a bit too strong and none of these cards have posed problems for me. I've only cut one such card that I feel is too good at fleecing aggro.
My 540ish Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
I couldn't have said it any better. Lol.
Thaaaank you very much for putting this together! It is very useful and much appreciated. I would even go so far as to say that I love it
Legacy Cube
For my peasant list, white is as much a control color as it is an aggro color. In addition to it's suite of removal spells, I'm also running cards like Ghostly Prison and Dovin, Hand of Control to help facilitate this.
Into the Roil is just a good value card. It's been in and out a few times over the years. It's good in both tempo and control decks and that's why it keeps coming back. Temur Sabretooth plays toward the blink/bounce strategy in Bant. It's also great at protecting both itself as well as your other creatures. It is a grindy monster, but I guess that's what I like about it.
Classic card is classic. It has one job and does it pretty well. Also, again, I'm trying to support control decks in some fashion and Icy fits right into those shells.
I think the Seer is one of the best cards to have come out in the past few years for peasant (and pauper) cubes. It's an evasive threat that replaces itself. What more could you ask for at common for 2U?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Another issue with the 'derms, IMO, is their lack of any sort of evasion. If you can cast them early and get in a couple times, that's great, but there's just so many dispensable blockers running around nowadays with recursive creatures or tokens. It's very easy to just watch the timer tick down on your 5/5 for no real value.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Glad you found it helpful! Stick around and I'll be putting together the 2022 list in a couple months.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My process for building my peasant cube started by extracting commons/uncommons from my regular cube. Unsurprisingly, they pretty much all translate to peasant. Then I self identified some powerhouse uncommons that fell just short of my regular cube list, those also are in most peasant lists. Next, I looked at peasant archetypes from existing lists, identified the key role players for the archetypes I would also want. Next, I used this list to identify my outliers. I identified outliers as the cards I am running which appeared in less than 15 other lists or the cards I'm not running which appeared in 15 or more lists. My last steps are looking at 2022 peasant threads for inclusions from this year that and then filling in a few gaps to complete the list.