For me the problem is really the guild slot. Flyers don't really need a lord or payoff card to work well, they're already useable on their own. And Azorius has a lot of great cards. I run Soulherder, Reflector Mage and Migratory Route and even though I consisdered Kangee I decided that ultimately I want/need the other cards more.
If it was a 3UU or 3WW card I'd run it for sure, but in a guild it's just not worth it when I only have three slots.
I have 6 guild slots, and I only want one flying lord, which still offers a lot of options/competition. Wizards has really been hitting that archetype hard recently. And you're right - the blue/white flying archetype doesn't need a lord to be good - I've won plenty of regular booster drafts off the back of unpumped flyers.
These cards are all interesting and certainly not bad, but for me, they just don't beat out competition at their respective slots. I'm at 360, though, so real estate is valuable. If I were to go up to 450, these would probably be the types of cards I'd be looking at.
I can see that. I am at 400, so I guess I do have a few extra slots. But I also really like those cards.
Thanks again for pulling this project together, the Average Peasant Cube list is a really useful tool and it's great to have access to all the raw data.
I color coded the list on CubeTutor. The filter function on that site is much easier to use in my experience. I didn't filter or categorize the cards on CubeCobra. In my experience that wasn't something I used on CubeCobra very much just due to the interface. If you are disappointed by this and want me to categorize CubeCobra as well, I certainly can.
I know that I personally would gain some value from having the tags applied to the CubeCobra list. Primarily for the cube-to-cube comparison tool, where CC lets you filter for tags while comparing cubes and CT does not.
CubeCobra appears to have a Mass Edit function to add tags, but I'm not sure how it compares to CubeTutor's interface.
Other things that stood out for me in the new list:
- Duress was in less cubes than I thought.
- No Kor Blademaster or other cheap double strikers in many cubes.
- Peregrine Drake is not even on the list (7 cubes).
- Fewer people tried Malefic Scythe or already removed it.
- Oketra's Monument in a decent amount of cubes, but Whitemane Lion is not.
- Duress seems to be one of those cards that plays much better in rare/powered cubes than it does in a creature-dominated format such as Peasant.
- I have Peregrine Drake sticking around primarily as a compliment to Ghostly Flicker, but outside of the combo it's much harder to justify its spot these days.
- I've been testing the Scythe since it has a unique design and I'm a big fan of colored artifacts, but it has definitely underperformed the few times it showed up and I expect will be on its way out soon.
- Oketra's Monument is always just on the fringe of playable and sticks around mostly due to the lack of interesting non-creature spells in white. I tried Whitemane Lion, but it generally just felt like a worse Kor Skyfisher.
- I recently added Scale Up to test and so far I've been very impressed. Once you start looking for it, you soon realize that there are a LOT of board states where an overloaded Scale Up just ends the game, even some times when Overrun wouldn't. With it being easier to cast than Overrun and having a cheap emergency mode, I'm somewhat surprised to see that it has dropped in usage.
- Reality Shift just doesn't stack up to the premium removal we have access to in other colors. Even in Simic, I think I would rather be running fight spells or sleep effects than giving my opponent a free 2/2 (or worse).
- I imagine that Vampire of the Dire Moon was supplanted by Foulmire Knight in most lists, outside of those with dedicated lifegain archetypes.
- Similarly, I added Goblin Oriflamme (good) when it first released but ended up cutting it for Bolt Hound (great). I could see running both in larger cubes.
Thanks again for pulling this project together, the Average Peasant Cube list is a really useful tool and it's great to have access to all the raw data.
I color coded the list on CubeTutor. The filter function on that site is much easier to use in my experience. I didn't filter or categorize the cards on CubeCobra. In my experience that wasn't something I used on CubeCobra very much just due to the interface. If you are disappointed by this and want me to categorize CubeCobra as well, I certainly can.
I know that I personally would gain some value from having the tags applied to the CubeCobra list. Primarily for the cube-to-cube comparison tool, where CC lets you filter for tags while comparing cubes and CT does not.
CubeCobra appears to have a Mass Edit function to add tags, but I'm not sure how it compares to CubeTutor's interface.
I agree with Mitas that this would be nice if it's not too much work.
Thanks for putting the list together! Probably a good thing that the mail system is quite stressed these days, as I will at least contemplate my next update and orders for a couple of weeks.
I agree with Mitas that this would be nice if it's not too much work.
I can make it happen, friends. I want this to be as useful to everyone as it can be. I'll work on it this weekend and probably finish up next week during the holidays.
Do either of you know of an easy way on CubeCobra to filter down by tags once they're applied? On CT, I can just check the tags I want to see until I get to the cube size I'm looking for. CubeCobra seems to want me to manually type each tag into the filter and I've had trouble entering more than one for the filter. That's why I don't generally use CC for that function.
Calibreto, unfortunately I don't know of an easy way to filter anf I agree that CT is superior for that. What I realised is that when I look at changes, I often consider each slot on the curve, like white 4 drops. Then it is useful to compare the average cube to your own, and you will be able to see the tags in the comparison. When looking at such a smaller sample size, it doesn't feel necessary to use the filter function.
Yeah, it appears that currently the only way to filter for tags is by manually typing them into the filter line. Filtering for multiple tags seems to be working for me though, for example: "tag:hybrid or tag:removal"
One useful feature that CC does have is the ability to "sort" by tag, so for example you could primary sort by 'color category' and secondary sort by 'tag' to quickly see which are the most/least played cards in each color.
Order of Midnight is way more popular than I expected. Kinda forgot about it.
Murmuring Mystic is great, but I'm similarly surprised at its popularity. I don't remember people talking about it much when it came out.
Do Spectral Sailor and Enclave Cryptologist not step on each other's toes (both are 31-33 lists)? I figured you would generally only want one of them. Do decks just play both? Or do they just go in different decks?
I've been happy with Scale Up, but I also play a ton of green aggro.
They are essentially the same card, so this might just be nostalgia on the preference of Faith's Fetters. Even so, I think there's plenty of room at 360 for both, so I don't see a reason to really be choosing one of the other right now.
Definitely. In my experience, peasant cubes often run a good amount of enchantments as both removal options and role players. There's also plenty of artifacts and artifact creatures in the mix. Rec Sage is still great imo.
Amazing. In a dedicated ETB blink style deck, is one of the most fun and most powerful cards you can pick up. Even in a regular old Azorius or UWX tempo shell, you're going to have good targets to blink each turn. Even just the aforementioned Faith's Fetters. Reset it each turn to the best target on the board and gain four life for your trouble.
I actually find the popularity of the Baloth a little surprising myself. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's pretty good. It's a six mana 4/5 draw two in Golgari. That's decent value.
Order of Midnight is way more popular than I expected. Kinda forgot about it.
I love Order of Midnight. It's the best Gravedigger variant available imo. And you get that sweet Seb McKinnon art showcase version.
Murmuring Mystic is great, but I'm similarly surprised at its popularity. I don't remember people talking about it much when it came out.
I actually added Mystic after hearing the Solely Singleton guys gushing about it. It immediately over performed in the first draft after I added it.
Do Spectral Sailor and Enclave Cryptologist not step on each other's toes (both are 31-33 lists)? I figured you would generally only want one of them. Do decks just play both? Or do they just go in different decks?
I only just added Sailor with my update after this year's comparison, so I can't say much about it specifically. I think the two can go in the same decks, but can also play different roles in different decks. They both dig through your deck to help find what you're looking for, but Sailor can also slot right into UX tempo/flyers while Cryptologist is great for reanimator or other graveyard decks.
I still prefer Faith's Fetters because the gain 4 is sometimes a 2-for-1 and it is more versatile than Cast Out since it does shut off non-mana producing abilities on lands, like Treetop Village and similar.
I love Reclamation Sage, especially since I have lots of artifact mana available, and keeping that in check is great.
Soulherder is basically absurd with any single other creature with an ETB ability, even the small ones like Scry 2 or gain 2 life. My only issues are that Soulherder is only OK with a non-ETB creature and is just straight up bad on its own.
Baloth Null is a beefy 3-for-1, which is what I want in my expensive spells. I think it is hard to find 3 better Golgari cards than it.
I think Order of Midnight would have been an okay CUbe card without the adventure, but the adventure certainly makes it much better.
I was also not playing Spectral Sailor until recently. I had decided with Zendikar Rising to move my blue threats towards cheaper creatures that can have an outsized impact like Sailor, Faerie Vandal, Brineborn Cutthroat, and Ominous Seas. Sailor has good synergy with those by having flash and adding card draw, then picked up extra synergy with Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator and Merchant Raiders from Commander Legends.
Order of Midnight is way more popular than I expected. Kinda forgot about it.
I was hesitant when I first added it, but after playing it, I absolutely love it. Early game, you just drop it for aggressive flying damage. Mid to late game, you probably send it on an adventure to get something else back and then cast it. It's great. It's flexible, cheap, and like Calibretto said, "it's the best Gravedigger variant available." Particularly because you don't have to wait until it costs 4 and you have something in the graveyard to make it worth casting.
I wholeheartedly agree that Order of Midnight is great. It just goes to show that adding two meh cards together makes for a great card.
Soulherder is bananas if it goes off. Definitely one of the stronger midrange archtypes in my cube, be it pure Azorius, Bant or Esper. Getting Omenspeaker every turn is fine, getting Mist Raven each turn is bananas.
I'd say Spectral Sailor goes in more decks than the Enclave Cryptologist. Cryptologist is more for control, whilst I can see running the Sailor in blue aggro decks where you wanna counter or play flashy threats, then equip them with bonesplitters. Both are great, tho.
As for Inquisition of Kozilek and co... I find hand disruption to generally be pretty useful, even if you don't hit anything you still get information, which allows you to plan better. And getting a removal spell or whatever can be backbreaking for some decks. I do find that the discard effects tend to be better in tandem with one another, though. But sometimes you get to be on the play and have them discard something turn 1, 2 and sometimes 3 and that's usually a done deal.
looking at cards I have and others don't It seems like my cube is going all out on tokens in a way other cubes are clearly not
I just wanted to point out that that's ok! Tokens strategies are sweet and if you and your group have fun with pushing that harder than the "average" cube, you should keep that up.
I can't stress enough that I never want this project to be seen as what a peasant cube "should" look like, but more of an exercise in data to see what's popular and what's not and what's changed from year to year.
Longtime peasant cuber here and I think this is an awesome project. I have a 450 peasant cube with rare lands (10 pain lands, 10 shock lands). In playing we have found a pretty extensive number of cards that lead to pretty miserable games so I notably exclude things like overrun, soulherder, ephemerate, sphinx's tutelage, propaganda, shrine of loyal legions, ghostly flicker. Has anyone else had the same experience with a lot of these cards? I feel like Palace Jailer, Feast of Succession, Loxodon Warhammer and Maze of Ith are all pretty close to being bannable also.
In playing we have found a pretty extensive number of cards that lead to pretty miserable games so I notably exclude things like overrun, soulherder, ephemerate, sphinx's tutelage, propaganda, shrine of loyal legions, ghostly flicker. Has anyone else had the same experience with a lot of these cards? I feel like Palace Jailer, Feast of Succession, Loxodon Warhammer and Maze of Ith are all pretty close to being bannable also.
Of the cards you listed, Loxodon Warhammer is often on people's banlist, but I don't think I've ever seen the others banned. I've never found Warhammer to be a problem, so I run it.
I removed Shrine of Loyal Legions (and Shrine of Burning Rage) since they didn't really ever make good gameplay (I don't like adding slots for artifact removal so ymmv), but that was years ago and C/Ube has definitely sped up in that time. I did the same thing with Palace Jailer a bit more recently, but it at least sometimes had interesting gameplay.
I've also personally deliberately avoided Feast of Succession, Maze of Ith, Propaganda, and Overrun since I can't imagine I would like the gameplay they make. I've definitely also seen other people mention avoiding Overrun due to its feast or famine nature. Other people seem to similarly avoid them since they aren't in most cubes. Palace Jailer and Loxodon Warhammer are also both only in 25-27 cubes despite being among the strongest cards we have access to.
I've never had or heard of people having tons of problems with the blink cards or Sphinx's Tutelage, but both can definitely be incredibly oppressive against a deck that doesn't have a focused plan.
I've never had or heard of people having tons of problems with the blink cards or Sphinx's Tutelage, but both can definitely be incredibly oppressive against a deck that doesn't have a focused plan.[/quote]
My experience with Sphinx's tutelage was that it created matchup problems. Decks that lacked reach or enchantment removal had a hard time racing this plus card draw spells, and in control mirrors this card was actually unbeatable. The blue white blink archetype won 4 drafts in a row when we added it. Souldherder demolishes green decks that lack removal (plus it grows out of removal range very fast) and ephemerate paired so well with mulldrifter, cloudblazer, riftwing cloudskate, etc. that those combinations ran away with games. This archetype had an inevitability feeling that we decided to do away with rather quickly, and replace with a blue white control archetype instead.
The Monarch mechanic is incredibly busted. Mechanics meant for multiplayer gameplay can be pretty messed up in 1v1 games. Feast of succession and Palace Jailer are especially guilty of this. There is this odd balance between wanting to add more monarch cards so you can become the monarch without combat, but by increasing the number of monarch cards in the cube you increase the number of games where this will be involved.
Pretty sure BrownDog5117 gutted his blink deck a few years back by removing a lot of the cards TheModernCuber mentioned. He was reporting similar degeneracy if I recall correctly. Maybe have a read through his cube thread.
Part of this discussion has me wondering if there's a handy way to use the data to see what percentage of cards in each person's cube are removal cards. I know I can see the common card names and how many decks they are in, but that doesn't give me context of how often they will be drawn in a given cube.
I have always been an advocate of packing answers rather than banning cards. For example, Loxodon Warhammer can be answered by destroying/exiling the artifact, destroying/exiling/tapping/bouncing the creature, forcing them to sacrifice the creature, fogging the damage, preventing lifegain, etc. A lot of these can result in massive tempo swings after they pay the creature's cost plus 6 to play and equip the hammer.
My cube is 400 cards, and after going through my list just now, I apparently run 120 cards with one form of removal or another (breakdown below), not counting combat tricks/pump.
- 28 destroy effects (creature, artifact, or enchantment)
- 30 damage creature
- 10 exile
- 6 sacrifice
- 7 -x/-x
- 7 tuck, bounce
- 8 counterspell
- 5 tap
- 1 permanent theft
- 4 temporary theft (which removes a blocker, adds an attacker, allows you to use a sac outlet, etc.)
- 16 deathtouch
That may sound like a lot, but some of these can't be pointed where you want (like a deathtouch creature or forced sacrifice), some are too small to kill what you want (like -1/-1 or pinging for 1 damage against a larger creature), some have a narrow window of utility (like counterspells), and some are just temporary, until end of turn. Maybe you will have creature removal in hand when you need artifact removal or vice versa. Additionally, there are plenty of protection effects, blink effects, pump effects, and reanimation to blank out or negate removal. Interaction and skill are key.
But, caveats aside, approximately 30% of the nonland cards that you draw could be some form of removal, or approximately 17% of all cards that you draw. (Hope I did that math right). That still leaves plenty of threats , and you have to use the removal judiciously, but it also means cards are less likely to run away with the game.
So, back to the question - is there a way to analyze the average asfan of removal? Am I running a really removal-heavy cube, or are these numbers fairly typical?
There aren't quite enough colors to match the number of tags, so I had to group the three highest groupings together as one color. I also set the secondary sort to a default of "Tags" (rather than "Types-Multicolor"), which gives a nice visualization to the ranking of cards within each color.
I think this is an interesting topic. To get a proper ratio of the average, we have to use the spreadsheet with all the information. I suspect that the cards that were not included, have a lower percentage of removal thn the average cube. This is partly based on my experience with rebuilding my cube to closely match the top 200 cards of the first MTGS average list.
I think it would be interesting to go one step further and build the average 360 cube. I would not go for the top 360 cards, as it would probably be quite a lot of removal. I would rather see the average curve, average amount of removal and other spells. Then those slots could be filled with the top X cards from each category.
I had some time so I went ahead and created a clone of the CubeCobra list with tags added.
This is great. Thank you for taking the time to do this. I had good intentions, but work and life have just not left me with the free time I'd like to have.
On the subject of banning cards from peasant for power level, I guess I do this, but only for a few cards that are egregiously not in line with peasant power level. Cards like Land Tax, Sylvan Library, Maze of Ith, and Sol Ring all fall into this category for me. The more modern uncommon "mistakes" do make the cut for me, though. I run both Ghostly Prison and Propaganda, Skullclamp, and Loxodon Warhammer. I think cards like this add a bit of power or bomb level cards that also still have that peasant feel. To me they do, anyway.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I know that I personally would gain some value from having the tags applied to the CubeCobra list. Primarily for the cube-to-cube comparison tool, where CC lets you filter for tags while comparing cubes and CT does not.
CubeCobra appears to have a Mass Edit function to add tags, but I'm not sure how it compares to CubeTutor's interface.
- Duress seems to be one of those cards that plays much better in rare/powered cubes than it does in a creature-dominated format such as Peasant.
- I have Peregrine Drake sticking around primarily as a compliment to Ghostly Flicker, but outside of the combo it's much harder to justify its spot these days.
- I've been testing the Scythe since it has a unique design and I'm a big fan of colored artifacts, but it has definitely underperformed the few times it showed up and I expect will be on its way out soon.
- Oketra's Monument is always just on the fringe of playable and sticks around mostly due to the lack of interesting non-creature spells in white. I tried Whitemane Lion, but it generally just felt like a worse Kor Skyfisher.
- I recently added Scale Up to test and so far I've been very impressed. Once you start looking for it, you soon realize that there are a LOT of board states where an overloaded Scale Up just ends the game, even some times when Overrun wouldn't. With it being easier to cast than Overrun and having a cheap emergency mode, I'm somewhat surprised to see that it has dropped in usage.
- Reality Shift just doesn't stack up to the premium removal we have access to in other colors. Even in Simic, I think I would rather be running fight spells or sleep effects than giving my opponent a free 2/2 (or worse).
- I imagine that Vampire of the Dire Moon was supplanted by Foulmire Knight in most lists, outside of those with dedicated lifegain archetypes.
- Similarly, I added Goblin Oriflamme (good) when it first released but ended up cutting it for Bolt Hound (great). I could see running both in larger cubes.
Formerly hedgehogger
I agree with Mitas that this would be nice if it's not too much work.
Thanks for putting the list together! Probably a good thing that the mail system is quite stressed these days, as I will at least contemplate my next update and orders for a couple of weeks.
I can make it happen, friends. I want this to be as useful to everyone as it can be. I'll work on it this weekend and probably finish up next week during the holidays.
Do either of you know of an easy way on CubeCobra to filter down by tags once they're applied? On CT, I can just check the tags I want to see until I get to the cube size I'm looking for. CubeCobra seems to want me to manually type each tag into the filter and I've had trouble entering more than one for the filter. That's why I don't generally use CC for that function.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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One useful feature that CC does have is the ability to "sort" by tag, so for example you could primary sort by 'color category' and secondary sort by 'tag' to quickly see which are the most/least played cards in each color.
Formerly hedgehogger
So people prefer Faith's Fetters over Cast Out?
Inquisition of Kozilek is hand disruption even good in peasant?
I.. should probably try to find space for Burst lightning
Reclamation Sage is still popular?
How good is Soulhearder?
Baloth Null surprisingly popular hmm.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Murmuring Mystic is great, but I'm similarly surprised at its popularity. I don't remember people talking about it much when it came out.
Do Spectral Sailor and Enclave Cryptologist not step on each other's toes (both are 31-33 lists)? I figured you would generally only want one of them. Do decks just play both? Or do they just go in different decks?
I've been happy with Scale Up, but I also play a ton of green aggro.
They are essentially the same card, so this might just be nostalgia on the preference of Faith's Fetters. Even so, I think there's plenty of room at 360 for both, so I don't see a reason to really be choosing one of the other right now.
Why wouldn't hand disruption be good in peasant? Hand disruption is generally just good in Magic.
Definitely. In my experience, peasant cubes often run a good amount of enchantments as both removal options and role players. There's also plenty of artifacts and artifact creatures in the mix. Rec Sage is still great imo.
Amazing. In a dedicated ETB blink style deck, is one of the most fun and most powerful cards you can pick up. Even in a regular old Azorius or UWX tempo shell, you're going to have good targets to blink each turn. Even just the aforementioned Faith's Fetters. Reset it each turn to the best target on the board and gain four life for your trouble.
I actually find the popularity of the Baloth a little surprising myself. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's pretty good. It's a six mana 4/5 draw two in Golgari. That's decent value.
I love Order of Midnight. It's the best Gravedigger variant available imo. And you get that sweet Seb McKinnon art showcase version.
I actually added Mystic after hearing the Solely Singleton guys gushing about it. It immediately over performed in the first draft after I added it.
I only just added Sailor with my update after this year's comparison, so I can't say much about it specifically. I think the two can go in the same decks, but can also play different roles in different decks. They both dig through your deck to help find what you're looking for, but Sailor can also slot right into UX tempo/flyers while Cryptologist is great for reanimator or other graveyard decks.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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I love Reclamation Sage, especially since I have lots of artifact mana available, and keeping that in check is great.
Soulherder is basically absurd with any single other creature with an ETB ability, even the small ones like Scry 2 or gain 2 life. My only issues are that Soulherder is only OK with a non-ETB creature and is just straight up bad on its own.
Baloth Null is a beefy 3-for-1, which is what I want in my expensive spells. I think it is hard to find 3 better Golgari cards than it.
I think Order of Midnight would have been an okay CUbe card without the adventure, but the adventure certainly makes it much better.
I was also not playing Spectral Sailor until recently. I had decided with Zendikar Rising to move my blue threats towards cheaper creatures that can have an outsized impact like Sailor, Faerie Vandal, Brineborn Cutthroat, and Ominous Seas. Sailor has good synergy with those by having flash and adding card draw, then picked up extra synergy with Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator and Merchant Raiders from Commander Legends.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Soulherder is bananas if it goes off. Definitely one of the stronger midrange archtypes in my cube, be it pure Azorius, Bant or Esper. Getting Omenspeaker every turn is fine, getting Mist Raven each turn is bananas.
I'd say Spectral Sailor goes in more decks than the Enclave Cryptologist. Cryptologist is more for control, whilst I can see running the Sailor in blue aggro decks where you wanna counter or play flashy threats, then equip them with bonesplitters. Both are great, tho.
As for Inquisition of Kozilek and co... I find hand disruption to generally be pretty useful, even if you don't hit anything you still get information, which allows you to plan better. And getting a removal spell or whatever can be backbreaking for some decks. I do find that the discard effects tend to be better in tandem with one another, though. But sometimes you get to be on the play and have them discard something turn 1, 2 and sometimes 3 and that's usually a done deal.
WiJ
Peasant 540 Cube
I think I'll try out burst lightning, soulherder and Balroth Null (again)
I don't have those man lands so I guess I don't really need faith's fetters, especially since cast out has flash.
looking at cards I have and others don't It seems like my cube is going all out on tokens in a way other cubes are clearly not
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I just wanted to point out that that's ok! Tokens strategies are sweet and if you and your group have fun with pushing that harder than the "average" cube, you should keep that up.
I can't stress enough that I never want this project to be seen as what a peasant cube "should" look like, but more of an exercise in data to see what's popular and what's not and what's changed from year to year.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Anyway here is my cube list - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5ff38025407a6f105e92eeb2
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I've also personally deliberately avoided Feast of Succession, Maze of Ith, Propaganda, and Overrun since I can't imagine I would like the gameplay they make. I've definitely also seen other people mention avoiding Overrun due to its feast or famine nature. Other people seem to similarly avoid them since they aren't in most cubes. Palace Jailer and Loxodon Warhammer are also both only in 25-27 cubes despite being among the strongest cards we have access to.
I've never had or heard of people having tons of problems with the blink cards or Sphinx's Tutelage, but both can definitely be incredibly oppressive against a deck that doesn't have a focused plan.
My experience with Sphinx's tutelage was that it created matchup problems. Decks that lacked reach or enchantment removal had a hard time racing this plus card draw spells, and in control mirrors this card was actually unbeatable. The blue white blink archetype won 4 drafts in a row when we added it. Souldherder demolishes green decks that lack removal (plus it grows out of removal range very fast) and ephemerate paired so well with mulldrifter, cloudblazer, riftwing cloudskate, etc. that those combinations ran away with games. This archetype had an inevitability feeling that we decided to do away with rather quickly, and replace with a blue white control archetype instead.
The Monarch mechanic is incredibly busted. Mechanics meant for multiplayer gameplay can be pretty messed up in 1v1 games. Feast of succession and Palace Jailer are especially guilty of this. There is this odd balance between wanting to add more monarch cards so you can become the monarch without combat, but by increasing the number of monarch cards in the cube you increase the number of games where this will be involved.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I have always been an advocate of packing answers rather than banning cards. For example, Loxodon Warhammer can be answered by destroying/exiling the artifact, destroying/exiling/tapping/bouncing the creature, forcing them to sacrifice the creature, fogging the damage, preventing lifegain, etc. A lot of these can result in massive tempo swings after they pay the creature's cost plus 6 to play and equip the hammer.
My cube is 400 cards, and after going through my list just now, I apparently run 120 cards with one form of removal or another (breakdown below), not counting combat tricks/pump.
- 28 destroy effects (creature, artifact, or enchantment)
- 30 damage creature
- 10 exile
- 6 sacrifice
- 7 -x/-x
- 7 tuck, bounce
- 8 counterspell
- 5 tap
- 1 permanent theft
- 4 temporary theft (which removes a blocker, adds an attacker, allows you to use a sac outlet, etc.)
- 16 deathtouch
That may sound like a lot, but some of these can't be pointed where you want (like a deathtouch creature or forced sacrifice), some are too small to kill what you want (like -1/-1 or pinging for 1 damage against a larger creature), some have a narrow window of utility (like counterspells), and some are just temporary, until end of turn. Maybe you will have creature removal in hand when you need artifact removal or vice versa. Additionally, there are plenty of protection effects, blink effects, pump effects, and reanimation to blank out or negate removal. Interaction and skill are key.
But, caveats aside, approximately 30% of the nonland cards that you draw could be some form of removal, or approximately 17% of all cards that you draw. (Hope I did that math right). That still leaves plenty of threats , and you have to use the removal judiciously, but it also means cards are less likely to run away with the game.
So, back to the question - is there a way to analyze the average asfan of removal? Am I running a really removal-heavy cube, or are these numbers fairly typical?
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/mtgs2020tagged
There aren't quite enough colors to match the number of tags, so I had to group the three highest groupings together as one color. I also set the secondary sort to a default of "Tags" (rather than "Types-Multicolor"), which gives a nice visualization to the ranking of cards within each color.
Formerly hedgehogger
I think it would be interesting to go one step further and build the average 360 cube. I would not go for the top 360 cards, as it would probably be quite a lot of removal. I would rather see the average curve, average amount of removal and other spells. Then those slots could be filled with the top X cards from each category.
This is great. Thank you for taking the time to do this. I had good intentions, but work and life have just not left me with the free time I'd like to have.
On the subject of banning cards from peasant for power level, I guess I do this, but only for a few cards that are egregiously not in line with peasant power level. Cards like Land Tax, Sylvan Library, Maze of Ith, and Sol Ring all fall into this category for me. The more modern uncommon "mistakes" do make the cut for me, though. I run both Ghostly Prison and Propaganda, Skullclamp, and Loxodon Warhammer. I think cards like this add a bit of power or bomb level cards that also still have that peasant feel. To me they do, anyway.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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