MTG Salvation

Peasant cube friends! It's that time of year again to see where we are in our peasant cube journeys. 2020 may have been quite the terrible year, but we got some pretty sweet stuff for our cubes. I titled this thread as planning because I'm looking to make my life a bit easier and ask folks to post their lists here if they want to be included in the comparison. The only thing I ask is that the cube is relatively up to date. Preferably that would be through ZNR, but M21 is acceptable. I'll still go on the hunt and try to find as many up to date lists as I can, but if the lists come to me, that's all the better. We had just over 30 lists last year. I'd like to get up to 40 to compare this year. More data is certainly not a bad thing!

I also put the call out on Twitter. I know this is the "MTGS" Average Peasant List, but let's face it, these forums aren't seeing nearly the same amount of traffic they once saw. If you know a peasant cuber that keeps up with their cube, but doesn't post here, send them to my Twitter feed (link in sig) with a link to their list!

I hope to start on this sooner rather than later. I normally knock this out during my annual December staycation from work. This year that starts Dec 7, so worst case I'll have it done and posted by the end of that week.

Cheers, friends, and I look forward to seeing what 2020 gave us (other than crippling depression, anyway).

Awesome. Thanks so much for doing this - it's a super-helpful tool.

Here's my list: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/5e6014d7f9730a46084c1e96

Still trying to decide if I'm going to swap in the Thriving lands (they are good, but I only have 2 easy cuts in my lands and need five slots), but otherwise, it is up to date.

I lurk more than anything, but I do keep an updated list (it is going through a little work at the moment).

Edit: my list is in the signature.

Thanks for taking on this project again!

Strangely enough, I've actually been able to get quite a bit of cubing in this year so my list is fairly well-tuned at the moment:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pma

Thanks for doing this! The last one was a source of inspiration.

Anyway, link to my cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/arbor4817_peasant

I remember there were specific rules and certain cards were not allowed based on online rarity and what not in previous years polling. Any notable exclusions I should know about before I submit a list?

I have been a longtime lurker here and this forum has been very helpful in tuning my list. Here is my Peasant Cube List. Hope this helps

I do wonder how the forums could be reinvigorated. Right now, it seems like the format is more or less solved. There is room for discussion, sure, but much less than before.

Also, I would be honoured to still be in. Only the CubeCobra link is up to date, though.

@MechanicalMech: In previous years the only things I've excluded are Conspiracies and Un-cards. I didn't exclude lists for running them, I just didn't include them in the final list. However, I think I'm going to forego that exclusion this year. You know if you want to include those cards in your list and seeing where they fall in the "average" cube might prove helpful to folks looking for which cards are popular.

The only true "criteria" I have for including lists is that they be updated within the last few months, at least with M21. Preferably the list is also at least 360 cards, but finely tuned smaller lists are acceptable as long as they meet the update requirements.

There also the issue with rare land fixing. I guess you could ignore those cards, but that would decrease the % of cubes with Tricolor lands etc.

That's true. I've avoided using true peasant+ cubes. That feels like a completely different format to me. I see rare lands kind of the same as the un/conspiracy cards. You know if you want them and you know which ones you want to use. I'll include cubes that run rare lands, but I won't include those lands in the final list. I think everyone in the peasant cube building business pretty much knows the hierarchy of true peasant fixing options. I am interested to see where the Thriving cycle falls this year, or if it even makes the cut.

This goes back to what this average list is really trying to be for the community. It's not what your cube should look like, but more of a helpful tool for deciding on cuts, swaps, and potential missed gems. If you see that you're running cards in your 360 that don't make even the average 720 (and I definitely am), that doesn't mean you're somehow wrong for running those cards. You can either look at those as cards for potential swaps or you know why you run them are happy with their performance.

I've looked forward to this project since the first set of 2020.

My cube is only 240 cards and designed for two players, so I understand if you give it a pass. Cube link is in my signature.

Thanks for doing this! I've updated my list, though I've gotten less testing than I would've liked due to current events.

I feel like rare lands should be able to be included in the final list or at least get a special mention. I doubt that any would end up making the final list since what people discuss doing with them is pretty diverse, but if enough people use them they should be represented somehow.

Quote from calibretto »

I am interested to see where the Thriving cycle falls this year, or if it even makes the cut.

I'm interested to see this, as well. I bought my copies quite a while ago but only just added them last night. My fixing has always felt adequate, but the Thriving lands do individually support more guilds than any given tri-land, so I wanted to try them. Long story short, I realized my color balance was slightly off, so I cut a couple of blue and white cards plus two non-fixing lands, and I'm excited to see how the Thriving lands perform next draft.

My cubecobra list is the one to use this year.

How do you handle the data collection and analysis Calibreto? Is it all manually downloading lists and making spreadsheets or have you got some scripts?

E: Probably worth posting this to the main and cube subreddits to get some external voices. I know there's peasant cubers over there who don't participate here. Maybe even search cubes on cubetutor/cobra for active peasant lists.

I find it funny that VariSami thinks this format is "solved". There's a lot of variety between lists in which pet cards and archetypes get pushed and while there are certainly staples, I don't think that's ever not been the case. Maybe in 2012 there was more variety but not in the time I've been here and that's probably starting around late 2015.

EE: OK maybe at larger sizes the format is solved (540+) but anybody building a cube that big in our format is signing up for goodstuff soup anyway.

@n00b: Link your CubeCobra. Your sig only points to CubeTutor.

I could probably do scripts (I work in IT and live inside spreadsheets all day), but I honestly don't. I just copy/paste the lists then do some comparisons at the end. Once I'm done, I'll post up the spreadsheet I'm working from as a Google doc so everyone has access to all of the data.

For rare lands, I do agree that if enough folks have resorted to rares for fixing that it should be represented. However, based on what I've seen so far, there's not really a general consensus as to *which* rare lands are appropriate for peasant power levels. Some folks are on RAV shocks, some are on pains, some are on manlands, and some are on a mixture of all of the above. I may note in the final count that X out of Y cubes run rare lands, just to give folks an idea of how many people are choosing to do that.

As to how solved the format is, I don't know. I think if you take the top 360 cards from the average list, you'd end up with a pretty "solved" format as far as archetypes and playability. The truth of the matter is that cube (of all shapes and sizes) is much more complicated than that, though. Your group might have pet cards or archetypes you love. You may want to try out an archetype that's maybe not as popular like say UB Ninjas or Persist Combo.

I think where we are right now for peasant cubes, you can probably build a really tight powerful archetype based 450 list at peasant. You'd have room to support the usual suspects as well as include your faves. When you start getting into 540+ range at peasant, you end up with a lot of really low power level (for cube) cards that are essentially just limited all stars. I'm still on 360 and I had plenty of room to throw in support for persist combo and not feel like I lost much in the way of powerful cards.

Anyway, thank you all for the discussion and keeping this thread active. I just realized I've been on this site for 14 years. Good lord. What have I done with my life? LOL

My Peasant cube has a few too many rules, namely, it is a modern peasant cube and only includes cards that were printed into modern. So it probably won't be included in this but I look forward to seeing the results.

Quote from calibretto »

As to how solved the format is, I don't know. I think if you take the top 360 cards from the average list, you'd end up with a pretty "solved" format as far as archetypes and playability. The truth of the matter is that cube (of all shapes and sizes) is much more complicated than that, though. Your group might have pet cards or archetypes you love. You may want to try out an archetype that's maybe not as popular like say UB Ninjas or Persist Combo.

I have tried the top 180, which ended with way to much removal and green becoming the worst colour. I'm not sure, but I might have tried the top 360 before that. I suspect that the top 360 would also ende up with to much removal, as those slots seem more solved than creatures and archetypes.

Here is my list on cubecobra, which is a bit more up to date than the cubetutor list in my sig.

I have a rule to allow up to one rare per section (WUBRG, guilds, colorless, lands), but currently I only use four of those slots. Did this to fill some holes for archetypes I couldn't properly fill with peasant cards. Don't think that qualifies as a true Peasant+ cube since 401/405 cards are peasant legal, I don't see mine as one at least.

Quote from calibretto »

@n00b: Link your CubeCobra. Your sig only points to CubeTutor.

Woops! My sig now links to both.

Here's my list: http://cubecobra.com/cube/list/5e15392c09f9671fcb1dc6e0

deleted

Here is my list
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/5d651433d6aca45073f7c1fa

Love these projects!

https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantville

Man the transition to Cobra is pretty strong this year.

RIP Cubetutor.