MTG Salvation

Tolarian Scholar is also better in context. That context being you at 2 life and your opponent attacking with a 3/2 Trampler.

And Lava Dart is better than Lightning Bolt in context, that's why it's probably the most played card across two eternal formats when the other one is unplayable. Is that how it works?

Well I do run Lava Dart so I can support the need for a repeated ping without the dominance of Fireslinger-style creatures.

I was simply listing examples of the other solid 3cmc bodies that will likely face competition for the slot. I likely have to cut a spell or a higher cmc to fit the cantrip flyer. Still will.

But much as the stiff competition for White 3cmc, this is facing a glut of other choices

As a talking point:
Non-Functional reprint 360s as well as 540+, will have no debate about cycling the Wizard in. 360, depending on what you want X/U to do will cut different things. I simply like my Stitched Mangler more than most.
It is a similar discussion to what I faced for saying First Sphere Gargantua was a Staple

Two planeswalker deck cards are worth talking about, but won’t make the cut for most of us.

Wildfire Elemental 2RR
Summon elemental
Whenever an opponent is dealt noncombat damage, creatures ya control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
3/3

Savage Gorger 1BB
Summon vamp
Flying
At Beginning of your endstep put a +1/+1 counter on Gorger if an opponent lost life this turn.
1/1

and...

Gorging Vulture 2B
Summon Bird
Flying
When Gorging Vulture enters the battlefield, put the top four cards of your library into your graveyard. You gain 1 life for each creature card put into your graveyard this way.
2/2

The ajani deck has some uncommon lifegain matters cards. I really wish we could see some soul sisters / lifegain payoff cards at common soon.

Black ones are intriguing. Savage Gorger is definitely worth a test

The Vulture is the best self-mill creature ever printed. No stapple by any means, but very nice card for graveyard archetypes.

Intriguing, repeatable abilities. But they are another in the Invoker line of mana sinks on ho-hum bodies



I like that indeed does say your control, but also it adds the counter. Not great, but better than the competition

Vorstclaw in green ramp?

There are many better options in ramp.

• Greater Sandwurm
  
• Havenwood Wurm
  
• Jungle Weaver
  
• Krosan Tusker
  
• Oakgnarl Warrior
  
• Rampaging Hippo
  
• Eldrazi Devastator
  
• Ulamog's Criusher
  
• Wrecking Beast
  

I say this as a vanilla large body is often not as good as a slightly smaller evasive, or sometimes alternate use (cycling) body. I personally like the higher cost cycling bodies as Rakp may need to see more cards instead of striving for a "dies to Doom Blade" fatty

Top Cards to Consider: (Staple and Cubeables)

• Cloudkin Seer
  
• Audacious Thief
  
• Silverback Shaman
  
• Winged Words

Honorable Mention: (Borderline / RolePlayers)

• Destructive Digger
  
• Gorging Vulture
  
• Savage Gorger
  
• Unholy Indenture
  
• Wildfire Elemental
  
• Boreal Elemental

WHY?
Most of the top cards either do something better than the competition, or are varied enough that they may slot better into prominent archetypes.

HM's do some cute things, but are either niche or challenge a 360's more competitive slots for a card that may work out less than what is cut.

What isn't listed
I, .like many can say "______ is a decent choice", but from the debates we often have here about efficiency and more reliable options, they just aren't beyond what we have.
Better Red flying bodies? Cool, but isn't a better beat-stick more needed?
Cool 6cmc tap abilities? Ok, we have Invokers already, and they have mostly been cut.
No new archetypes come about. And the usual stuff is coming in. Standard Core Set fare.

I agree with the above assessment. I want to try the digger, because red doesnt get too many creatures like that.

On a different note, can you gents access the "This or That" forum? When i try it says forbidden.

Should we also try to update the dropdown listings before the site goes to historical preservation?

I am all for it. Here is what needs done:
-Format all the updates, by color and CMC (Creature or Non too) into Staple, Cubeable, Borderline and Bad
-Agree on those ratings
-Message Al with the total update

Quote from Night_Hydra »

Top Cards to Consider: (Staple and Cubeables)

• Cloudkin Seer
  
• Audacious Thief
  
• Silverback Shaman
  
• Winged Words

Honorable Mention: (Borderline / RolePlayers)

• Destructive Digger
  
• Gorging Vulture
  
• Savage Gorger
  
• Unholy Indenture
  
• Wildfire Elemental
  
• Boreal Elemental

WHY?
Most of the top cards either do something better than the competition, or are varied enough that they may slot better into prominent archetypes.

HM's do some cute things, but are either niche or challenge a 360's more competitive slots for a card that may work out less than what is cut.

What isn't listed
I, .like many can say "______ is a decent choice", but from the debates we often have here about efficiency and more reliable options, they just aren't beyond what we have.
Better Red flying bodies? Cool, but isn't a better beat-stick more needed?
Cool 6cmc tap abilities? Ok, we have Invokers already, and they have mostly been cut.
No new archetypes come about. And the usual stuff is coming in. Standard Core Set fare.

I like what you're doing here

Does anyone happen to know what the last set to be included in Al's drops downs was?

I always have the most recent set in my signature. The last set added was Rivals of Ixalan.

There is the authority. Now, we just need to compile a post-Rivals set and send it over. Progress!

Ok, so ill take a crack at it, likely this weekend. Ill start with Nights reviews, but we can confirm with others. What might be helpful would be links to said ratings (i know M20 is here and MH1 is on the main). I can provide email if easier.

Also you should see my comments on those two mH1 cards

No worries. I am doing green Thurs and Fri. Just post to that thread and the community will respond.

I will gladly change ratings. But some cards have been adjusted for a set that came out after its release

i had a stroke, im super slow at typing now. so im late.

first glance inclusions:
T1
Cloudkin Seer
Audacious Thief sick card
Blood Burglar maybe. replacing child

Goblin Smuggler having haste makes the cut for me. smuggle that thief
T2:
Squad Captain whites first "fatty". yay


Boneclad Necromancer
Gorging Vulture
Bone Splinters

Why are people so hyped up about Audacious Thief? Stealer of Secrets was never anything more than Borderline, and while this doesn't have to connect, it's still a 2/2 for 3 in a world full of efficient removal at 1 and 2 CMC. The only straight up Staples I see are Cloudkin Seer and Silverback Shaman, and maybe Winged Words. I wanna low-key try Boneclad Necromancer though, since a floor case of 5/5 worth of stats spread across two bodies isn't that bad, and it can disrupt Flashback cards and incidental graveyard synergies in my cube.

removal works in both directions. you can attack with thief and draw into it before they block

Well the Thief is mostly strictly better and it's black and black has the weakest creatures, while blue is pretty much the most stacked color of all.

Quote from Zephyr Scarlet »

Why are people so hyped up about Audacious Thief? Stealer of Secrets was never anything more than Borderline, and while this doesn't have to connect, it's still a 2/2 for 3 in a world full of efficient removal at 1 and 2 CMC. The only straight up Staples I see are Cloudkin Seer and Silverback Shaman, and maybe Winged Words. I wanna low-key try Boneclad Necromancer though, since a floor case of 5/5 worth of stats spread across two bodies isn't that bad, and it can disrupt Flashback cards and incidental graveyard synergies in my cube.

Boneclad Necromancer's floor case is a 3/3 vanilla for 5. So that's an absolutely abysmal floor case paired with a ceiling that's just on par for a 5 drop in black. It's unplayable.

I kinda agree with you on Thief though. Even when it was spoiled I for some reason thought it would play out worse than it looks, and after playing with it on Arena it has been pretty disappointing indeed. On the surface it looks like the best of both worlds between Phyrexian Rager and Stealer of Secrets, but in practise it's pretty similar to Stealer and worse than Rager. It suffers from the same insurmountable problem that all of those Scroll Thief variants have: they're only good when your opponent can't deal with a mediocre body hitting them every turn on turn 4 or later. Whenever that happens, you were probably winning the game no matter what. However, when the game is close and your opponent is able to stop a vanilla 2/2 from attacking them, which in practise should be in over 80% of games, they are literally Grey Ogres and a full card down on Phyrexian Rager. All Thief had going for it over Stealer is that you can basically cycle it away from play by suiciding it. That's not nothing, and if your opponent actually had to trade for it it's actually good, but still not better than Rager. I'm still suspecting Rager's average will be higher than his.

Quote from Izor »

Quote from Zephyr Scarlet »

Why are people so hyped up about Audacious Thief? Stealer of Secrets was never anything more than Borderline, and while this doesn't have to connect, it's still a 2/2 for 3 in a world full of efficient removal at 1 and 2 CMC. The only straight up Staples I see are Cloudkin Seer and Silverback Shaman, and maybe Winged Words. I wanna low-key try Boneclad Necromancer though, since a floor case of 5/5 worth of stats spread across two bodies isn't that bad, and it can disrupt Flashback cards and incidental graveyard synergies in my cube.

Boneclad Necromancer's floor case is a 3/3 vanilla for 5. So that's an absolutely abysmal floor case paired with a ceiling that's just on par for a 5 drop in black. It's unplayable.

I kinda agree with you on Thief though. Even when it was spoiled I for some reason thought it would play out worse than it looks, and after playing with it on Arena it has been pretty disappointing indeed. On the surface it looks like the best of both worlds between Phyrexian Rager and Stealer of Secrets, but in practise it's pretty similar to Stealer and worse than Rager. It suffers from the same insurmountable problem that all of those Scroll Thief variants have: they're only good when your opponent can't deal with a mediocre body hitting them every turn on turn 4 or later. Whenever that happens, you were probably winning the game no matter what. However, when the game is close and your opponent is able to stop a vanilla 2/2 from attacking them, which in practise should be in over 80% of games, they are literally Grey Ogres and a full card down on Phyrexian Rager. All Thief had going for it over Stealer is that you can basically cycle it away from play by suiciding it. That's not nothing, and if your opponent actually had to trade for it it's actually good, but still not better than Rager. I'm still suspecting Rager's average will be higher than his.

Ah, you're right on Necromancer. I thought it exiled any card which could also mean nabbing Flashback things, but now I see why it hasn't been discussed much.

What are the thoughts on Wildfire Elemental for Swarm? Firing 2 burnspells at your opponents face gives you a Path of Anger's Flame for free. It's obviously nuts with Fireslinger, Thermo-Alchemist and Firebrand Archer.