Does white midrange lack cards, though? Seems worse than a lot of what you're running, though I could see it being better than Crop Mate, especially in the early turns where you might not have anything valid in the GY and Crop Mate is a 3 mana 2/2.
Depending on how they play, Rigging Runner and Merfolk Branchwalker might earn permanent spot for me. Monstrosaur and Chart are definitely the standouts though.
Right, this set is worse than the last few that we have had by a wide margin, mostly due to the parasitic nature of the tribal interactions and because the meta is clearly being depowered for a change. My thoughts are...
Under Consideration: Siren Stormtamer: The most likely inclusion of these but blue is tough. Adanto Vanguard: 4 life is not nothing but it also protects itself outside of combat. This is important given my support for auras. Chart a Course: Only if I find room. Storm Fleet Aerialist: If Raid is triggered, it is great.
Definitely testing: Charging Monstrosaur - Solid top end for red Merfolk Branchwalker - Perfect G card for my cube Siren Stormtamer - I think a very solid card that requires strong play from your opponent to play around it Snapping Sailback - I think this card is very strong. Flash allows it to get in for a quick block and then +1/+1. It needs a hard removal spell to really get rid of it (not many creatures can easily block it and burn won't really kill it). Can be chump blocked, it just gets bigger and if playing with +1/+1 lords can cause some major pain. Sky Terror - Really want to test it, not sure what to replace yet.
So white's bad and the set's overall a mediocre catch. Powerful french vanillas work perfectly in my playgroup though, so at least the Monstrosaur will have a secure spot for several sets to come.
Most of the other analysis here (not just Haccy, but all the posts) is pretty safe and accurate. One card that I haven't seen mentioned that I like is Atzocan Archer -- it's defensive and controlling, but really helps shore up a weakness in green.
I'm going to my traditional way-too-quick top 20, divided by tiers, based on how excited I am to slip these new cards in my cube. My initial thoughts are like most: not a ton of great options for us this time.
16) Atzocan Archer- Has an interesting upside to either clear small creatures or finish something off post combat. Lots of existing 3-drops like this in green already.
15) Territorial Hammerskull- Not that long ago I played Master of Diversion, which was a decent enough card. Obviously a better version of that.
14) Imperial Aerosaur- Also not that long ago I played Phantom Monster, and this is significantly better than that.
13) Sky Terror- Basically, a 2/2 unblockable with reach. Not particularly synergistic with anything else in Boros.
12) Shapers of Nature- An interesting card for +1/+1 counter or ramp decks. I will stick with River Hoopoe for now.
11) Storm Fleet Aerialist- Very interesting options for more aggressive blue sections. Will keep this in the back of my mind for sure.
10) Kitesail Freebooter- A more relevant body over Mesmeric Fiend and Brain Maggot, but with less relevant discard.
9) Savage Stomp- Cheaper Hunt the Weak that combines removal with some +1/+1 synergies. Another card to consider if those synergies become even stronger
8) Rigging Runner- Interesting red one-drops always pique my interest. Decent enough from turns 1-3 as a creature, but also conditional on turns 2-3.
7) Ranging Raptors- I think this is a decent comparison to Carven Caryatid, which I do currently run. No idea how reliable the Enrage will be.
6) Unclaimed Territory- I will probably play as an interesting untapped multi-color land over Crumbling Vestige, but that may be better.
5) Merfolk Branchwalker- I have enjoyed Terrain Elemental and I presume the unreliability will make this worse, but the other mode seems fine too.
And now, cards I am definitely cubing:
4) Siren Stormtamer- A decent flying one-drop that can also likely trade for a more relevant card later in the game. Probably the absolute best one of these we have gotten so far.
3) Charging Monstrosaur- Peasant gets a Reality Smasher! I have not previously played any red creatures above four mana until this came along to smash faces.
2) Wanted Scoundrels- I will readily admit this is a high-risk scenario, but I think this will be very hard to kill without spending at least 4 mana in resources and will very happily smash face until your opponent can find an answer.
1) Chart a Course- I am excited to jam this into every blue deck I play. The baseline mode is pretty good on turn 2 and the later upside is tremendous. Cost discount on card draw spells are so amazing because you get an earlier opportunity to cast what your drew. It is the exact thing that made Treasure Cruise so busted.
Rigging Runner - And yet another card I only mention because some people were excited about it. When do you even want to play this guy? I guess turn 3 in combination with another two drop would be the only place in the curve where it really makes sense. Pointless card that isn't even that good if it works out.
Good aggro decks (at least in Mardu colors) have like six one-drops. This one doesn't work well on T1, but it's pretty easy to turn it into the best possible body you can buy for R on T2 or T3 or even T4.
Good aggro decks (at least in Mardu colors) have like six one-drops. This one doesn't work well on T1, but it's pretty easy to turn it into the best possible body you can buy for R on T2 or T3 or even T4.
The absolute main reason why good aggro decks need 6+ one drops is to ensure they can play one on turn 1. And not to play them on turn 3 or later and only if they have the right combination of cards unless they want to waste mana, which is a no-no for an aggro deck and makes the card even worse than it already is.
Uh
The 'right combination' of 1-2-3-4 curve is super improbable for aggro decks, and squeezing in extra 1-drops when you'd otherwise do nothing is the exact opposite of wasting mana
--
Sailor of Means is worse than the 1/4 Turtle for 2. If you want a defensive idiot, you want it early rather than later with a mana refund.
Nobody (AFAIK) plays Vehicle Haste Guy, so I don't see any chance for Nest Robber.
Chart a Course is getting wildly overrated here. I mean, the set doesn't have much 'top end' (though there's almost 30 cards that are at least worthy of fringe consideration) so it's still a top three card, but if half the cubes here aren't including Night's Whisper I really don't see the hype for a worse version of it in a color which has vastly higher competition for draw/filtering.
Chart a Course is getting wildly overrated here. I mean, the set doesn't have much 'top end' (though there's almost 30 cards that are at least worthy of fringe consideration) so it's still a top three card, but if half the cubes here aren't including Night's Whisper I really don't see the hype for a worse version of it in a color which has vastly higher competition for draw/filtering.
For me, Night's Whisper does not really have a deck that wants to play it. Is it a card for black aggro decks that will not want to play it turn 2 and has lower general card quality later game? Is it a card for black controlling decks that might sweat the life loss and does have higher card quality? It is certainly not a bad card in either deck, but gets squeezed out quickly.
Chart a Course does not any of those fit issues for me. If you are aggro and can attack, you are getting a cheap draw two without any other drawback, even if your card quality is a bit worse. If you are controlling, this sets up your hand early to have the exact right answers to survive the early game without the life loss. You might even have some synergy with the discard. Later, you can find room for an attack and hopefully draw high quality cards that can keep your opponent out of the game.
1. When my opponent is playing all-in aggro with stuff like Acidic Soil
2. When I'm trying to set up Exhume + something huge
So that leaves like... 80-90% or more of cube games where I'd rather have the card that's currently seen as mediocre to the point that about half of us don't even run it.
I don't see how any of your points against Night's Whisper don't also apply to Chart a Course, other than the life loss of course. For Whisper you say that aggro decks aren't casting this turn 2 and are getting less benefit than other decks later on, which is a fair assessment. The when talking about Chart a Course it seems like you're excited to have a 2-mana draw two in aggro. Idgi. (Nothing personal of course, just that the point as stated doesn't resonate with me)
If we're directly comparing the two, the life loss is certainly a real downside - I've had that type of card stuck in my hand late game after being put on the back foot. But I think the life loss is less of a downside than the attack trigger if you're the aggressor. Sometimes your opponent just plays a 2/4 that walls your early creatures, and I'm generally not going to throw away a 2-drop on board to get another card in hand. And when I'm playing a more controlling role, I think it's going to vary game-to-game whether the 2 life or the discard is more important, so I'd call that a toss-up.
I'm still pretty sure I'll test the card out, as I do like the design a lot. But especially with the competition for draw/filter effects in blue, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets edged out in the end. I also don't like how it has negative synergy with prowess, when typically a UR spells/prowess sort of deck should love this effect.
@_iO: What is your distinction between "all-in aggro" decks and regular aggro decks? I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I just want to be sure. The idea, as I see it, is that control decks more often lose early due to not being able to cast their spells early than card disadvantage, so an aggro deck that wins on turn 6 as opposed to turn 5 may already buy you enough time. I do not think the distinction is always that clear, especially from game to game, where you cannot know how good their draw is going to be.
@valgatiag: My feeling right now is that the cards are pretty comparable for control decks, likely better early game because card advantage matters less early and more late, while life loss could matter more. In regards to aggressive decks, I just think the life loss drawback would be more relevant for blue decks (that would have more evasive creatures) than getting stonewalled early, although getting stonewalled is definitely a valid concern.
Also, I think I will usually be fine casting this on turn two in control decks. Getting the right answers early is more important than card advantage. And while there are certainly a lot of good options for card draw/filtering, this is probably the second best two-mana option behind Impulse, and ahead of cards like Anticipate or Strategic Planning.
I personally am more excited about steadfast armasaur than anything esle and I'm so happy they waited to give me this card! The fact we had an uncommon spoiler season was really nice. it gave me a bit of extra hype on this. Im in love with the possibilities with him. the steadfast armasaur is one of the most unique uncommons I've seen in a while and Im excited about getting to cube him.
The following are cards I'll auto-include in my cube: Heartless Pillage: I like Mind Rot and this is strictly better. Charging Monstrosaur: I've been waiting for a card like this for a long time. Merfolk Branchwalker: I think she is viable, just a tough decision on what to replace. Sky Terror: Not exactly what I was looking for, but definitely one of the better Boros creatures we've seen.
@_iO: What is your distinction between "all-in aggro" decks and regular aggro decks? I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I just want to be sure. The idea, as I see it, is that control decks more often lose early due to not being able to cast their spells early than card disadvantage, so an aggro deck that wins on turn 6 as opposed to turn 5 may already buy you enough time. I do not think the distinction is always that clear, especially from game to game, where you cannot know how good their draw is going to be.
Speed and reach (burn spells), basically. I'm happy to spend two life points to find my better late-game cards against basically any non-red deck, or even slower red decks. Like... if you have a winning board against any combination of WUBG aggro, it doesn't really* matter if you're at 1 life. (There's stuff like Sleep or Gray Merchant, yes, but immensely fewer possible ways to win than you get from a red deck).
I'd also definitely rather have Anticipate than Chart a Course in my control decks since Anticipate is so much better paired with Mana Leak or any other counterspell, as well as instant-speed removal. And, again... who's playing Anticipate currently?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Actively want to have in my cube:
Solidly maybe:
Buy, but likely never even test:
I dunno but I guess I'd rather have a useless foil copy on hand than 25 cents in my pocket
Maybe Test:
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Autoincludes:
Charging Monstrosaur
Chart a Course
Merfolk Branchwalker
steadfast armasaur (This may be personal preference but Ankylosaur and stegosaurus are my fav dinos from being a kid so that may weigh in a bit)
Duress (the new are is amazing)
Highly debating:
Ruthless Knave
Wanted Scoundrels
Belligerent Brontodon (looking to make toughness matters and Defender a W/G archetype)
Am going to test:
territorial hammerskull
Emissary of Sunrise
Bellowing Aegisaur (again fav dino but also seems still quite strong)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Definite Inclusions:
Charging Monstrosaur: Hoarding Dragon, we hardly knew ye'.
Raptor Hatchling: After some consideration, I will cut another card but this will be tested.
Merfolk Branchwalker: I am just not that great a fan of Terrain Elemental.
Field of Ruin: Specifically due to an open slot and the special features of my cube.
Under Consideration:
Siren Stormtamer: The most likely inclusion of these but blue is tough.
Adanto Vanguard: 4 life is not nothing but it also protects itself outside of combat. This is important given my support for auras.
Chart a Course: Only if I find room.
Storm Fleet Aerialist: If Raid is triggered, it is great.
Other Nods:
Shipwreck Looter
Tempest Caller
Raiders' Wake
Seekers' Squire
Wanted Scoundrels
Fire Shrine Keeper
Rigging Runner
Atzocan Archer
Emergent Growth
Ranging Raptors
Verdant Rebirth
Snapping Sailback
Marauding Looter
Definitely testing:
Charging Monstrosaur - Solid top end for red
Merfolk Branchwalker - Perfect G card for my cube
Siren Stormtamer - I think a very solid card that requires strong play from your opponent to play around it
Snapping Sailback - I think this card is very strong. Flash allows it to get in for a quick block and then +1/+1. It needs a hard removal spell to really get rid of it (not many creatures can easily block it and burn won't really kill it). Can be chump blocked, it just gets bigger and if playing with +1/+1 lords can cause some major pain.
Sky Terror - Really want to test it, not sure what to replace yet.
Very likely/maybe testing:
Adanto Vanguard
Chart a Course
Rigging Runner
Ranging Raptors
Verdant Rebirth
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Pirate's Prize seems exceptionally bad, like... worse than Divination by a good margin.
Most of the other analysis here (not just Haccy, but all the posts) is pretty safe and accurate. One card that I haven't seen mentioned that I like is Atzocan Archer -- it's defensive and controlling, but really helps shore up a weakness in green.
20) Adanto Vanguard and 19) Deeproot Warrior- Interesting two drops that properly get outclassed by the very good recent two-drops we have gotten. In this case, probably would rather play Oketra's Avenger and Rhonas's Stalwart respectively.
18) Snapping Sailback- Really poor man's Great Oak Guardian. Granted, Guardian is, well, great, so maybe a worse version could be okay enough.
17) Sheltering Light- Another one-mana white trick. Probably fails compared to Ajani's Presence.
16) Atzocan Archer- Has an interesting upside to either clear small creatures or finish something off post combat. Lots of existing 3-drops like this in green already.
15) Territorial Hammerskull- Not that long ago I played Master of Diversion, which was a decent enough card. Obviously a better version of that.
14) Imperial Aerosaur- Also not that long ago I played Phantom Monster, and this is significantly better than that.
13) Sky Terror- Basically, a 2/2 unblockable with reach. Not particularly synergistic with anything else in Boros.
12) Shapers of Nature- An interesting card for +1/+1 counter or ramp decks. I will stick with River Hoopoe for now.
11) Storm Fleet Aerialist- Very interesting options for more aggressive blue sections. Will keep this in the back of my mind for sure.
10) Kitesail Freebooter- A more relevant body over Mesmeric Fiend and Brain Maggot, but with less relevant discard.
9) Savage Stomp- Cheaper Hunt the Weak that combines removal with some +1/+1 synergies. Another card to consider if those synergies become even stronger
8) Rigging Runner- Interesting red one-drops always pique my interest. Decent enough from turns 1-3 as a creature, but also conditional on turns 2-3.
7) Ranging Raptors- I think this is a decent comparison to Carven Caryatid, which I do currently run. No idea how reliable the Enrage will be.
6) Unclaimed Territory- I will probably play as an interesting untapped multi-color land over Crumbling Vestige, but that may be better.
5) Merfolk Branchwalker- I have enjoyed Terrain Elemental and I presume the unreliability will make this worse, but the other mode seems fine too.
And now, cards I am definitely cubing:
4) Siren Stormtamer- A decent flying one-drop that can also likely trade for a more relevant card later in the game. Probably the absolute best one of these we have gotten so far.
3) Charging Monstrosaur- Peasant gets a Reality Smasher! I have not previously played any red creatures above four mana until this came along to smash faces.
2) Wanted Scoundrels- I will readily admit this is a high-risk scenario, but I think this will be very hard to kill without spending at least 4 mana in resources and will very happily smash face until your opponent can find an answer.
1) Chart a Course- I am excited to jam this into every blue deck I play. The baseline mode is pretty good on turn 2 and the later upside is tremendous. Cost discount on card draw spells are so amazing because you get an earlier opportunity to cast what your drew. It is the exact thing that made Treasure Cruise so busted.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Fallout Commander
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Good aggro decks (at least in Mardu colors) have like six one-drops. This one doesn't work well on T1, but it's pretty easy to turn it into the best possible body you can buy for R on T2 or T3 or even T4.
Uh
The 'right combination' of 1-2-3-4 curve is super improbable for aggro decks, and squeezing in extra 1-drops when you'd otherwise do nothing is the exact opposite of wasting mana
--
Sailor of Means is worse than the 1/4 Turtle for 2. If you want a defensive idiot, you want it early rather than later with a mana refund.
Nobody (AFAIK) plays Vehicle Haste Guy, so I don't see any chance for Nest Robber.
For me, Night's Whisper does not really have a deck that wants to play it. Is it a card for black aggro decks that will not want to play it turn 2 and has lower general card quality later game? Is it a card for black controlling decks that might sweat the life loss and does have higher card quality? It is certainly not a bad card in either deck, but gets squeezed out quickly.
Chart a Course does not any of those fit issues for me. If you are aggro and can attack, you are getting a cheap draw two without any other drawback, even if your card quality is a bit worse. If you are controlling, this sets up your hand early to have the exact right answers to survive the early game without the life loss. You might even have some synergy with the discard. Later, you can find room for an attack and hopefully draw high quality cards that can keep your opponent out of the game.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Fallout Commander
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
1. When my opponent is playing all-in aggro with stuff like Acidic Soil
2. When I'm trying to set up Exhume + something huge
So that leaves like... 80-90% or more of cube games where I'd rather have the card that's currently seen as mediocre to the point that about half of us don't even run it.
If we're directly comparing the two, the life loss is certainly a real downside - I've had that type of card stuck in my hand late game after being put on the back foot. But I think the life loss is less of a downside than the attack trigger if you're the aggressor. Sometimes your opponent just plays a 2/4 that walls your early creatures, and I'm generally not going to throw away a 2-drop on board to get another card in hand. And when I'm playing a more controlling role, I think it's going to vary game-to-game whether the 2 life or the discard is more important, so I'd call that a toss-up.
I'm still pretty sure I'll test the card out, as I do like the design a lot. But especially with the competition for draw/filter effects in blue, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets edged out in the end. I also don't like how it has negative synergy with prowess, when typically a UR spells/prowess sort of deck should love this effect.
My cube discussion thread
@valgatiag: My feeling right now is that the cards are pretty comparable for control decks, likely better early game because card advantage matters less early and more late, while life loss could matter more. In regards to aggressive decks, I just think the life loss drawback would be more relevant for blue decks (that would have more evasive creatures) than getting stonewalled early, although getting stonewalled is definitely a valid concern.
Also, I think I will usually be fine casting this on turn two in control decks. Getting the right answers early is more important than card advantage. And while there are certainly a lot of good options for card draw/filtering, this is probably the second best two-mana option behind Impulse, and ahead of cards like Anticipate or Strategic Planning.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Fallout Commander
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Heartless Pillage: I like Mind Rot and this is strictly better.
Charging Monstrosaur: I've been waiting for a card like this for a long time.
Merfolk Branchwalker: I think she is viable, just a tough decision on what to replace.
Sky Terror: Not exactly what I was looking for, but definitely one of the better Boros creatures we've seen.
Cards that I will probably test:
Territorial Hammerskull
Sailor of Means
Siren Stormtamer
Verdant Rebirth
Commander: *Five Color Fun-Stuff *Grixis Artifacts *Beast Tribal
Brawl: To Be Decided At Eldraine Release!
Siren Stormtamer - Probably replacing Sidisi's Faithful, although I'm worried about shorting blue too many early defensive creatures.
Charging Monstrosaur - Straight up replaces Thunder Brute. This card sets the new standard for red 5+ drops.
Merfolk Branchwalker - Replacing Satyr Wayfinder most likely, which has been under-performing
Snapping Sailback - This one is tough, as green 5s are tight. Maybe Embodiment of Insight, or Hooting Mandrils from the green 6s?
Imperial Aerosaur - Not sure which white 4-drop to replace. While I like Coalition Honor Guard mechanically, it's only so-so, so maybe that.
Maybe Test:
Not a great set for us, mostly due to the tribal focus I feel.
Speed and reach (burn spells), basically. I'm happy to spend two life points to find my better late-game cards against basically any non-red deck, or even slower red decks. Like... if you have a winning board against any combination of WUBG aggro, it doesn't really* matter if you're at 1 life. (There's stuff like Sleep or Gray Merchant, yes, but immensely fewer possible ways to win than you get from a red deck).
I'd also definitely rather have Anticipate than Chart a Course in my control decks since Anticipate is so much better paired with Mana Leak or any other counterspell, as well as instant-speed removal. And, again... who's playing Anticipate currently?