MTG Salvation

Yeah the warning seems entirely unnecessary, there's a lot of good game design / MTG history discussion going on. And the thread would otherwise be completely dead, not like an active and important topic is being diverted.

Quote from steve_man »

Quote from Humphrey »

Quote from steve_man »

Second and last warning, take the conversation to PMs / related threads. Continuing to even follow up on these conversations on this thread will result in this thread being locked, individual disciplinary action, and deleted posts.

whats wrong with you? this is a small familiary subcommunity in a subforum. We could also just ask Noobincube to change the topic to AKH spoiler and general discussion. he might be so kind.

I get that the cube forum is a niche community within a niche community, but I've been getting multiple complaints about thread derailing and flaming. I'm all for discussions branched from other discussions, but there becomes a point where you need to take it somewhere else and get back on topic.

The main topic is dead and one could argue the topic is what the current discussion is about. We are like 10? active posters in the paupercube community so its one or two more level of niche and this has been the most active discussion in the last couple of month, because there are hardly any new insights to talk about until the next set drops. And the tone has always been a little rough, but in the end our hobby brings us together here anyways.
We certainly dont need the national guard riding in and putting us in jail, just because of some snowflakes. How about you change the headline or fork the thread into a new topic "The current state of magic from the viewpoint of paupercubers" if youre so eager to moderate.

^

I'm like 50% "lol bro chill" and 50% "yeah, what he said". So... good post

Essentially, I agree with Humphrey. Our threads about set discussion go off to pasture within a month, then maybe in like 2 months someone asks about one card or two. Then it dies forever.

This thread was dead. It had been for a over a week. 10 days actually, if you look back to find the last post relevant to AKH and pauper cube. So there is no "on topic" to get back to.

Yeah, I could have posted the quote in the off-topic subforum, but then the people involved (humphrey, izor) wouldn't have seen it. Worthless.

Taking it to the PMs keeps other people from chiming in. This isn't a 2 or 3 person conversation and I wouldn't have wanted it to be one. That's counterproductive.
And I didn't come here just to convince the people I'm talking to either. Threads are public so the public can read them.

(also, I certainly don't check any pther portion of this website. I would bet that 7,848 of my 8,849 posts are right here. Even if I post like, an art request, it's gone from memory in a day)

TL;DR
The tangent didn't disrupt any conversation since the thread was necro'd by me. I don't believe complaints about derailment are legitimate since the train wasn't even running anymore.
Making the thread title of capital importance over the facts of the matter doesn't make sense to me.
//
At most I can see you trying to calm down the behavior. I got angry, especially after Izor got snippy with my compatriot.
But the topic? Not really a problem.

Quote from steve_man »

Second and last warning, take the conversation to PMs / related threads. Continuing to even follow up on these conversations on this thread will result in this thread being locked, individual disciplinary action, and deleted posts.

I understand the reasons, why people are complaining, but I also see the pros of having a first conversation in the Pauper cube forum since months. So, if you could split the thread, it would be very nice of you and hopefully everyones happy afterwards.

Quote from Humphrey »

The main topic is dead

If you can't think of a contribution to the topic, then you're not thinking hard enough.

Quote from Humphrey »

and one could argue the topic is what the current discussion is about. We are like 10? active posters in the paupercube community so its one or two more level of niche and this has been the most active discussion in the last couple of month, because there are hardly any new insights to talk about until the next set drops. And the tone has always been a little rough, but in the end our hobby brings us together here anyways.

I know English is probably not your first language, but let's be clear here - "niche" does not equal "follow the rules when you feel like it, and ***** things up when you don't, cause nobody gives a **** anyway." Not to mention random trolls popping in with drive-by posts just to bask in the attention is probably not the kind of discussion you want to be encouraging, regardless of size.

Quote from Humphrey »

We certainly dont need the national guard riding in and putting us in jail, just because of some snowflakes. How about you change the headline or fork the thread into a new topic "The current state of magic from the viewpoint of paupercubers" if youre so eager to moderate.

The only snowflake here is you thinking you're too cool to follow basic forum etiquette. How about YOU start a thread and invite all the homies that are "brought together here by the hobby" lol, so you don't litter normal threads with your kooky diatribes. I recommend the Off-Topic thread - literally the reason it exists.

I check this forum infrequently. I saw new posts in this thread and went "great I still need to do my update! Maybe they're results of testing!"

That's not what it was and I can't believe I read the whole thing. Just because the topic wasn't being discussed doesn't make this the right place to go off on modern design... anyway.

What AKH cards have people included and tested favorably? Not interested in rehashing the argument about Bloodlust Inciter because I know some people were really opposed to it but I guess testing results there are good. Green Cartouche? Black Cartouche? What's been decent, what's been unexciting, what's overperformed?

Hieroglyphic Illumination, Wander in Death, and Supernatural Stamina are all at least borderline, depending on the speed of your cube and which colors lean in what direction (aggro-midrange-control).

Quote from _i0 »

Hieroglyphic Illumination, Wander in Death, and Supernatural Stamina are all at least borderline, depending on the speed of your cube and which colors lean in what direction (aggro-midrange-control).

I second this.

Also, what do you think about Miasmic Mummy? I know it doesn't give card advantage because of the simmetry, but black takes more advantage of auto-discard than any other effect. Also in AKH limited the combination Mummy + Unburden was a very good aggro play. A pity that they didn't give us a straight Mind Rot with cycling, as they did with Wander in Death... That would have been a great card.

Stamina is comparable to Undying Evil, one pumps on the front end one pumps on the back end and I think the back end pump ends up better most of the time.

BAck end pump is usually great but with both of these cards you kinda actively want the creature to die, so...

Quote from _i0 »

BAck end pump is usually great but with both of these cards you kinda actively want the creature to die, so...

I should clarify, Stamina lets you make a trade and have the creature come back, Evil lets you trade (less effectively) but have the creature come back larger.

I'll just copy my post in the general discussion thread:

My cube was drafted today and the players were happy. Some new cards have been in action:

Greater Sandwurm does its job, he wasn't often in play, so I don't know how good he actually is. But he seems brutal with a Cartouche of Strength on it.
Crypt Rats is ridiculous with a Cartouche of Ambition on it.
Gift of Orzhova was liked.
The player of Burning-Tree Emissary complained, that he often didn't have something to cast with it, but it's a newer player and it is possible he just didn't play it right.
Hieroglyphic Illumination was well appreciated. It's a good card.

Quote from Izor »

I don't really get the hype about Illuminations. People read Cycling and immediately think it makes the card twice as good. That may be true for cards like Greater Sandwurm or Miscalculation, but with this one you basically only have a cantrip for U with Kicker for 3, which isn't great.
Wander in Death is a good card overall, I suppose it's borderline playable if you go really deep on graveyard recursion. But in the end there's just too many of those effects that are better.
Supernatural Stamina I admit I don't have much experience with. It's just one of those weird tricks that I have a hard time imagining being good in cube when they're cuttable even in their respective draft formats. Sacrifice isn't really a thing in pauper, so best case scenario would be getting an ETB trigger out of this, which doesn't sound very appealing.

Mummy is just not a good card. Worse than a bear a lot of the time.

Not like "standard playable" is 100% a corollary to this setting, but Illumination showing up in standard U/R control decks DOES generally mean it's a powerful effect. Card advantage late-game, or can cycle at the cheapest possible mana cost if you need early interaction.

Wander... what, exactly, is better? If you want any Raise Dead variant, I think this is the best option. Ahead of Death Denied, the buyback variant... everything else.

Denied and Burial were what I specifically mentioned as competition for Wander in Death.

They both go way over the top and are better in grindy games, but my experience in Pauper cube (limited compared to yours I'm sure, I don't own one but do get to play occasionally) is that mana efficiency and tempo is more important.

If you find that you win super long games with a huge Denied or by casting Burial 3-4+ times, then Wander certainly can't match that

Burial, and extension Whisper of the Muse, are powerful in a vacuum. That vacuum is also 4+ years old. If you are following trends that we are given by WotC, aggro and tempo are fashionable. 5+cc Sorceries are passe and dated. You need a 1 turn opening to feel safe.

I will defeat my own claim by saying I have been in those games as of last year. But my recent 2hg sealed games last month showed just how fast things can spiral when you see an attack window that allows a 5cc+ Sorcery.

I am not at Humphrey's level of encouraging aggro, but I run like 8x 1cc in Green and bloated Red + White 2cc 3/x's.

I suppose my phrasing did not properly convey my point.

I meant that the Vacuum, whereby everything being equal, (where the Buyback spells were backbreakers) was only realistic 4 years ago. Many of the top tier cards recently released have been supporting lower curve aggression. So the 'vacuum'seemed less sufficient a model to strive for as ignoring recent release trends felt.. stale.

I may reintroduce Burial but it was cut because it often was underappreciated and I wanted more efficient bodies rather than long-term investments that have not lived up to expectations recently.

Quote from Izor »

I don't really get the hype about Illuminations. People read Cycling and immediately think it makes the card twice as good. That may be true for cards like Greater Sandwurm or Miscalculation, but with this one you basically only have a cantrip for U with Kicker for 3, which isn't great.

I think people see Hieroglyphic Illumination and the closest reference is Think Twice, which is a pretty good spell at any point in the game, and has incidental synergy with graveyards. Foresee is the next best thing and as a reload card, it would be fantastic with cycling in those games where you can't afford to tap out for a do-nothing spell on a critical turn 4. Illumination is lacking in the synergy department (I don't think we have a lot of cycling or discarding interactions at common) but Inspiration is just short of a borderline card and getting a small bonus like the one mana cycling cost (itself much better than the standard 2) makes it basically as good as Opt in my opinion, with Scry 1 being about on par with the kicker 3: draw an extra card

In another direction, what do you say about exerters? They seem to have proven their value in Amonkhet Limited, where they mostly serve as undercosted beaters, but are they efficient enough for pauper cube? Would you need a vigilance package, as Humphrey put forth? Are there any interactions you can see that would bump up their value? How was your experience with them?

For reference, here are all the common exerters so far:

• Bitterblade Warrior
  
• Emberhorn Minotaur
  
• Gust Walker
  
• Hooded Brawler
  
• Nef-Crop Entangler
  
• Tah-Crop Elite

Emberhorn Minotaur and Hooded Brawler in particular stick out as sizeable clocks, in a similar vein to Ruinous Minotaur but with a much smaller drawback

Hooded Brawler doesn't attack better than Hungry Spriggan, but it's clearly a better blocker when your aggro deck needs to play defense.

Gust Walker is the best of the bunch by a mile, though.

disturbed burial got cut a long time ago from my T1, its really too slow and i claim my cube is pretty balanced when it comes to the fundamental archetypes. not only you have to pay the hefty buyback cost, but also a beefy creature on the same turn and maybe even the card youve drawn to gain an advantage. the card only shines in the mother of all durdle decks and thats defintely too slow for current powerlevels. Death Denied is the card you want to run. besides that, black has a lot of other (better) tools to generate card advantage.
and if you want to explore the recursion mechanic basically every gravedigger type creature seems better than wander in death

as often said, ramp is not a valid strategy for powercubes. the rampspells are horrible topdecks and there are basically no reliable ramptargets. this archetype is way too inconsistent to be playable.

the only buyback spell that still is a solid wincon nowadays is sprout swarm which doesnt need to much mana.
i also still run capsize, which is often a bad boomerang, but still has lategame potential and Evincar's Justice wbich never gets buybacked.

but is discussing buyback not offtopic as well??!!11 halp


friend of mine convinced me to run Gust Walker (in my t2) it replaced one of the pegasus.

the rampspell itself is bad card qualitiy/disadvantage, but strong targets can compensate it.
Grim Harvest was horrible in my testings. Its like a triple stone rain on yourself.

You don't need great targets at 6-7-8 mana for good ramp spells (like the ones listed above by Al) to be worth drafting -- just fixing mana and getting out early 4-drops and 5-drops is still very strong.

How has Greater Samdwurm performed? Especially in non- or ramp-lite cubes.

Successes with Horror of the Broken Lands? Enough to enjoy Grisly Survivor in HoD?