My initial take on shadow was that it was non-interactive and I didn't include any of the aggro shadow dudes. I made an exception for Soltari Champion to get an extra anthem effect in white. As an aside (and related to doing 2-man drafts), I'm thinking I should cut down on a few aggro creatures in black and red as it seems to come together a little too easily, but perhaps increasing the quality by putting in the shadow guys.
Whitemane Lion sees a fair bit of play actually. I'm too lazy to check right now, but I think it is the only flash version in my cube, and that is relevant nearly every time it gets played.
"Belfry Spirit is way worse than Custodi Squire at face value, and I think even with your amount of tokens support" - Yep, sounds reasonable. I'm surprised I haven't played this alongside Goblin Bombardment where it would be filthy, but oh well.
"Arrest... why this over Banishing Light? More maindeck answers to artifact/enchantments = better Cube matches" - It was probably diversity at the time I made the choice, or maybe this was an add when I removed Path or Swords? In any case this argument makes sense. I don't recall off-hand whether the SOI one targets all permanents or just creatures, maybe I'll go that instead.
--
"Wingcrafter (and to a lesser extent Cloudfin Raptor) -- you have so few blue creatures that can attack well for less than three mana, these guys are going to be way worse than their full potential" This is making me rethink my blue section a bit in general. I've never tried to push aggro in blue, but I'm thinking it might be worth exploring a bit more.
"Umara Entangler... why?" I must have been on drugs. I don't know why I thought this was good at the time. I have no defence for this awful choice. Maybe if it was surrounded by other aggro cards. But it isn't.
"Thieving Magpie -- Lu Xun, Scholar General exists and you play online rares, so...?" - No particular reason. I'll upgrade if it isn't a casualty of changing up blue.
"Favorable Winds -- you have four creatures in blue at CMC 3 or less that benefit from this." It's been ok, but I see your point. I see Welkin Tern in my future.
"Sphinx's Tutelage -- pretty redundant with Psychic Spiral around" Funnily enough, I think I'd rather Sphinx's Tutelage. While I've only played it once, I had Psychic Spiral sitting in my hand the whole game because it simply wasn't going to do enough. I'm going to completely ignore your advice and add more redundancy for repeat effects
Vampire Interloper should be Olivia's Bloodsworn - Next update I'll make this swap.
"Viscera Dragger... graveyard decks don't usually care about a random 3/3 one-shot attacker, and the flexibility of cycling isn't really worth playing a Hill Giant." Yeah, I see this in packs and am never excited. Time to go.
"Worm Harvest -- ew, no, never this card ever (only slightly sarcastic)" I love a Worm Harvest win
"Zombify -- is this not just embarrassingly bad compared to every single other reanimation effect you play? At least make it Dread Return." Yeah, this is skipped over most of the time. I might try out Victimize again.
"Sigiled Skink -- gross" - Maybe I overrate the smoothing given this is the second comment on this?
"Pyreheart Wolf -- I'll say the same thing I say every time -- get Goblin War Drums instead" - I wouldn't say it has seen plenty of play, but each time I do I underestimate how annoying it is to face. I can see the effect happening immediately probably being worth more. How would you compare the Ally that grants the effect? You don't get menace the following turn, but you have an additional attacker?
Greater Mossdog -- "random drawstep, or Hill Giant? WOW, GIMME THAT HILL GIANT!!!" - Yep. Will swap.
Dawn's Reflection -- I like making Arbor Elf better, but this just seems insanely slow. No Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl??? - Hmm. I'm sure Utopia Sprawl used to be in my cube, but a quick cubetutor search says no. Bizarre. I don't mind Dawn's Reflection though as a fixer and ramp card. At a glance, I could swap out Keen Sense which hasn't seen heaps of play, or replace Dawn's Reflection and add some big artefact ramp.
Lion is not your only flash creature with that effect, there's also Stonecloaker.
I like Lion considerably less than Kor Skyfisher and even Emancipation Angel (it SEEMS like paying W for +1/+0 would make it a subpar card, but that card continues to perform well and impress). It's just... a 2/2. If you want to save your own stuff, I'd look at Shelter and/or Gods Willing.
The SOI card I assume you mean is Angelic Purge, which hits creatures-enchantment-artifacts. It's a fine option here too if you've removed the A+ tier stuff like Swords/Path.
Firemantle Mage leaving behind a random 2/2 body is pretty useless. I think it's worse than getting Gorilla War Cry for one mana less + (slow) cantrip, or the outright NO BLOCKS of Order // Chaos.
Keen Sense is indeed pretty bad. I play Curiosity, but the effect is a lot nicer on a Vaporkin than on whatever green 2-drop is around.
Paying four mana for a ramp card just doesn't sit right with me. I'm OK with Hedron Archive since it turns itself back into real cards later in the game if you get that far, but... I just don't see it with Dawn's Reflection. Just too much worse than Cultivate and Kodama's Reach (they're also functionally +2 mana if you would ever miss a land drop in the first whatever number of turns, which I think is the case in the majority of games).
Skink doesn't actually help you hit your third land on T3 (or find a 3-drop for T3) like Omenspeaker does, and even if you assume it can attack on T3 and T4 (unlikely, it's a vanilla 2/1) then two separate scry triggers are considerably worse than getting them both at once.
I'd play an actual 2/1 red Omenspeaker, but... yeah, Skink isn't that.
Rock Slide isn't awful, just way worse than Rolling Thunder (which itself is a card currently not in my cube since it was underwhelming) or static number spells like Arc Lightning.
--
How exactly did you "chump" a Lightning Berserker? It trades with literally anything with a positive number as its power.
I think I have this dream of grinding out extort wins off the back of Whitemane Lion bouncing itself, but it never happens. Holding on to the dream too long.
The SOI card I was thinking was Bound by Moonsilver, but it is creatures only. I'm not sure about Angelic Purge as a sorcery. Banishing Light might be it.
Skink I can probably just drop in favor of something else entirely.
I;ll stick with Rock Slide until I've seen it in play (or stuck in my hand) a few times. I'd agree that Rolling Thunder is the 'better' card overall, but I think this is more in tune with the gameplay I want to engender.
leadfeather, maybe change the title of the thread so people don't still think it is my cube, and are maybe ignoring?
I'm curious about some of the cards you've listed as being problems. Obviously without context I can't tell whether they you just don't like them, or don't see them working in the current configuration of guitarspiders cube. I'll have to come back and check the cube later, but for example Blessed Spirits doesn't seem to need a lot of support (but at least some). Mind Control seems like a perfectly playable card, unless you mean from a power-max viewpoint that this should be Control Magic.
That's a lot of really helpful feedback so far, cool! You guys have pretty much honed in on what I consider to be the weak parts of my cube right now. The artifact theme is way iffy and I need to work on auras/enchantments. Let's see.
Leadfeather:
Elite Vanguard: It's a soldier for Cenn's Tactician. I'm not super happy with Tactician, so it's perfectly possible I'll play the dragon guy again soon-ish. I do try to avoid running functionally identical cards, so I'd rather not run all the 2/1s, if I can avoid it. I probably should, but hey.
Squirrely said a lot of things I would have had to write down otherwise, so thanks. Two things I want to add: Mind Control: There is basically no way I will play Control Magic in a cube where I've depowered a good chunk of the removal. I've seriously considered going to Confiscate in fact.
I love Wall of Razors. It's the best cheap defensive creature red has and it's not burn.
Phit77:
Jeskai Barricade: Wall of Omens is obviously good, but it's also desperatly dull. So I'm trying this, but it's entirely possible it should just be Nyx-Fleece Ram, as Squirrely said.
Heliod's Pilgrim: I'll definitely think about more auras for my next update, I've basically had the same impression: I don't have quite enough of them.
Pegasus Stampede is a bad Goblin Trenches, which means it's still ok. I cut Trenches because my players kept complaining about the rare symbol (I mostly play with inexperienced players, so online rarities are arcane and "rares are better than uncommons" is a thing). It's extremely likely to come back at some point though. I really wish the EMA printing was uncommon.
Ultimate Price: I do depower removal, but I'm not against good removal on principle, so having some premium removal to top off a body of mediocre-to-good removal makes sense to me. That is a bit inconsistent maybe.
Discard spells: I do run Ostracize. I prefer it over Duress because of the creature clause. It's true that Inquisition of Kozilek would be nice, but I don't own one and I'm not getting one at the current price. Ostracize is not so much worse that I feel the need to spend 13 bucks on an Inquisition.
Red dragons: I'm not married to either, tbh, but that's what red has. I do want to provide some options for slower red decks and there are not that many out there. As Markov Warlord would be functionally almost the same as Volcanic Dragon I put in Shockmaw.
Dance with Devils: I'm not sure yet just how good or bad this card is, but it does make combat very tricky, which I like. I suspect it would be too clunky for a good number of cubes. Four mana is a lot, but it can also blow you out.
Mwonvuli Beast Tracker: Funny story: I totally misread this card when I ordered it, I thought it'd draw the creature. I realized I was wrong, but I already had the card, so I put it in anyway. It's barely ok and it's going to get cut soon. The artwork is pretty good though.
Squirrely:
Yes, Kazandu Blademaster is pretty interchangeable. There wasn't anything else at the mana cost with +1/+1 counters that I really liked. Any suggestions?
Enlightened Tutor: I don't own one, it's been pretty expensive to get. Maybe I can get one after the new EMA printing.
Blustersquall: I really like its flexibility. It also works better with the spell pump theme in the Jeskai colors, because of its flexible mana cost. It just fits my environment really well, but I believe I would expect Sleep to be the better card in most cubes.
Insolent Neonate is another case of a card that is lower power strictly speaking, but it does so many things I want in red. It'll easily do 2-3 damage, then it allows you to get rid of a land and get an actual card.
Priest of Urabrask is another "let's see if it works at all" scenario. It's basically a worse Burning-Tree Emissary. So far I've liked it well enough, but it's far from spectacular, the kind of card that is going to get cut sooner or later.
Reincarnation is whacky. Sometimes you get insane value, especially in graveyard decks, and other times it doesn't do anything. To be perfectly honest, for the foreseeable future it's going to stay in the cube just for being interesting. It creates really cool and unique situations.
Ulvenwald Mysteries: how good this is really depends on the speed of your environment. If you can get it going, it basically adds an Elvish Visionary with flash to your hand every time one of your non-token creatures dies, which is pretty good.
Gerrard's Verdict: I'm not really sure what I want my 4th Orzhov card to be, so for the moment it's the Verdict. Pillory and Persecution are definitely on the short list.
Artifact subtheme: It's ok, nothing more. The cards are in the cube because blue-red doesn't have a ton of themes that haven't been done to death. The problem is that most of the cards are parasitic and that there really aren't enough good artifact creatures. I wouldn't really recommend trying this theme at the moment, it's fun, but not particularly powerful and I'm basically trying to make it work against better knowledge and to spice things up.
Reclusive Artificer has actually been ok. Often you just won't play it, but in the right deck it'll regularly do 2-3 damage when it comes down and then throw its 2/3 body into the fray. Cranial Plating: similarly to Artificer, it's mostly decent if you play it, but you won't play it too often. Ensoul Artifact is really swingy, but it does work out a decent amount. There's enough thopter tokens, equipment and utility artifacts to make it a good late pick a decent amount of the time. Soultether Golem can work surprisingly well with tokens. As blue/red are my artefact colors and red has a bunch of tokens, it works out kind of alright. To my own surprise, I'll admit, it was a desperation choice. I'll probably cut it when they print better artifact creatures. Or whenever I grow tired of trying to make artifacts work.
Chronomaton and Triskelion are good suggestions, thanks!
Codex Shredder: as you said, it is a little unimpactful, but it works together with all the other mill cards. Millstone is too slow alone, but it's really meant to be a complementary piece. Sphinx's Tutelage is the the key mill card really. May still be right to cut Millstone for something else.
Springleaf Drum: I like it a lot. It's good with small creatures, it's good with instants (block then tap), it's good with tokens and it makes any color you want. It's not going to break the game of course.
Fodder Cannon: I'm on the fence too. It's expensive and sometimes it's just too slow, but it can also take over games if your opponent can't remove it and has to play their creatures into it.
It looks like if I can support topplegeist, you can too.
I'd raise an eyebrow at:
One thousand lashes
(It feels a waste to play two of the same effect. In gold. Unburial rites or zealous persecution seem like better choices)
And how good have:
Rage forger
Stab wound
Pyrewild shaman
Been?
Why arent you running:
Infiltrator il-kor I don't feel it is as strong as other shadow creatures, I already play latch seeker although it could be argued that seeker is harder to cast based on UU restriction, it does get in a turn earlier. I also think CMC 2 is a pretty competitive spot for blue decks and I don't consider it the best top deck
Lust for war I did play it for some time, but for the card usually fell short for some reason. I guess I never gave it a true chance, but when I play red aggro I want to crash in all the time and playing 1 drop into 2 drop into this and then not wanting to attack so the card could start going to work seemed too slow? Not sure if this makes sense, but its a card I put in and take out frequently
Topplegeist This card never really hit my radar as something I wanted or needed. I think if I knew I could get delirium consistently I would put it in, but I think the 1/1 gets outclassed quickly and is hard to trade up with. Has this card been great for you or others?
Tooth collector I just cut this for Baleful Ammit testing. It can down to this, Liliana's Specter or another aggro card. I think I chose the collector because I have a lot of removal in my cube and in black, so this potential 2 for 1 was fine to drop. I had this card with delirium and its great, but didn't happen that often. Still a card that I like and will potentially put back in.
Obsessive skinner Another card not really on my radar, I think if I knew I could hit delirium often enough I would put it in, but even with as much GY enabling as my cube has, it doesn't happen that often. It's definitely something I could look out in the future and maybe will test.
It looks like if I can support topplegeist, you can too.
I'd raise an eyebrow at:
One thousand lashes
(It feels a waste to play two of the same effect. In gold. Unburial rites or zealous persecution seem like better choices)
I try to really push my archetypes and make them noticeable. Unburial rites is a card I don't care for in Orzhov, zealous persecution is definitely a great card, much better than most of the orzhov cards I play, but again I like to be archetype forward for my gold cards, even if that means for those sections I am playing cards that may not be the best for those slots. I don't mind the redundancy and the activated ability clause has come up before.
And how good have:
Rage forger I somewhat recently put this in and it hasn't seen play yet, but since +1/+1 counters have been pushed a lot more recenlty, I suspect this card will do alright
Stab wound People seem to not like this card on these forums, but I really like it. My BW drain decks usually end up as me not attacking as much as really just letting my opponent drain out. So I am not really worried about using stab wounds and then attacking and it not doing much. Worst case scenario you can use it as a removal spell in a pinch, but it usually ends up doing 6+ damage for me in a game while also making my opponents creature do 6+ less damage to me.
Pyrewild shaman Haven't drafted since this has been added. Family have been in town ruining my plans.
Basilica Guards - Seems bad Mana Drain - Too good IMO. Psionic Blast - Outside of blue's color pie. Control Magic - Really powerful and seems unnecessary since you have mind control. Bone Shredder - It's bad removal and a bad creature, not sure that making it both in one card makes it good. Hymn to Tourach - Too good, leads to unfun games IMO. Rage Forger - I didn't see a ton of support for +1/+1 counters outside of G/W, and this seems pretty bad outside of that deck Lead by Example - Are there really no better cards to support +1/+1 counters with? Renegade Map - Seems slow and bad Behemoth Sledge/Loxodon Warhammer - Seems too good especially with the low amount of artifact removal.
Basilica Guards - Cards actually very solid in a couple different decks, super great in the drain life BW deck, works well in white control slow decks. Its very much an archetype support card for me, but the card does work.
Mana Drain - It's very strong, very strong, but honestly not unbeatable. This has been added more recently and I am keeping an eye on it.
Psionic Blast - I don't play cards based on color pie. This card is great and I can't imagine it being cut anytime soon.
Control Magic - Great card, I don't mind the redundancy here yet, if anything would remove mind control before this for sure.
Bone Shredder - This card is actually great in my cube. I play a lot of GY cards and using this as a removal and then bring it back again and again is great.
Hymn to Tourach - I don't have a problem with strong cards in my cube, they can be difficult to beat, but this card hasn't caused a complete non-game for a long time, and having it happen every once in a while isn't too much of an issue to me. I think you can come back from getting hit by a solid Hymn.
Rage Forger - Roughly 9-10+ creatures with +1/+1 counters or ability to get counters just from red in my cube, pairing that up with W/G can make a very strong RX counters deck, having about 8+ cards in a color to support an archetype seems strong enough to me. Honestly haven't played with it yet though, its something I am testing with the large amount of +1/+1 counter support that has been thrown at us in the last few sets.
Renegade Map - Great fixing, when you don't play any rare lands this is just as good if not better than tapped lands in certain situations. Sure slow, but same with all other fixing in peasant.
Behemoth Sledge/Loxodon Warhammer - Loxodon is definitely a P1P1 card in my cube, agreed it is extremely strong. My philosophy about these cards and how to handle them may be a little different then most. I don't care for playing disenchant/artifact removal cards. In my opinion those are a waste of a slot in a deck and something you usually don't main deck. I think most colors have ways to deal with these cards, white has good creature removal and a couple of effects to handle the artifacts themselves, blue has counter spells and bounce creatures, red has a ton of removal and generally an extremely fast clock that may be too slow for something like the hammer, black has tons and tons of removal and some discard, green typically has to just go over the top of it with very large creatures. There are games where these cards will win the game for you, but I keep an eye on it and if it ever gets completely out of hand I will probably take them out.
Surprised that Grafted Wargear wasn't also mentioned with these, I think this card is just as strong if not stronger sometimes due to the 0 equip cost.
Maybe I tend to try and keep my power level just a little higher than most, but I like the diverse and strong decks that can be made in my cube and honestly haven't had major issues with cards, except curse of predation (a card that in my opinion is bonkers, completely busted and overpowered) and maybe ghostly prison too which I don't think is unbeatable, but makes games stall out too frequently for my taste and has been removed recently. I do keep an eye on most of the strong cards you have listed here and I agree they are very strong and can be back breaking, I just don't think they have gotten to the point of banning/removal yet.
Edit: Lead by Example - Somehow missed this card when going through, there are a variety of +1/+1 counter cards, I like this one because it's a nice instant trick. Adding a permanent two power and two toughness to your board for two mana is quite nice at instant speed. I do think overall power level of counters support is not as strong as other cards, but the combos can be brutal
Topplegeist has been pretty-to-very good for me. I think a 1/1 evasive creature with upside is much closer to cubable than people give it credit for.
Furthermore, I think the total lifetime damage output in an average game of this card when compared to an elite vanguard (higher damage, lower lifespan) is close enough that the etb makes up the difference when played on later turns.
Topplegeist makes hands with multiple 1 drops better (or, better than most double 1 drop hands), instead of occasionally awkward.
Tooth collector, has been around average, and I don't run skinner. I just saw a lot of discarding and otherwise filling of the graveyard, so I figured I'd mention the three best delirium cards.
/
Infiltrator il-kor I prefer to latch seeker, honestly. Blue twos aren't exactly full of *aggro* support.
Latch seeker and the infiltrator attack on the same turn, but infiltrator is sometimes harder to kill. Your opponent can't use instant speed removal on turn 3 to kill it unlike latch seeker and cant use sorcery speed removal to take it down at all before it gets in for 3.
Also, when in topdeck mode, a 3/1 unblockable for 5 isnt that much worse than a 3/1 unblockable for 3.
I happily run both, but infiltrator is sometimes just ridiculous.
Topplegeist has been pretty-to-very good for me. I think a 1/1 evasive creature with upside is much closer to cubable than people give it credit for.
Furthermore, I think the total lifetime damage output in an average game of this card when compared to an elite vanguard (higher damage, lower lifespan) is close enough that the etb makes up the difference when played on later turns.
Topplegeist makes hands with multiple 1 drops better (or, better than most double 1 drop hands), instead of occasionally awkward.
Tooth collector, has been around average, and I don't run skinner. I just saw a lot of discarding and otherwise filling of the graveyard, so I figured I'd mention the three best delirium cards.
/
Infiltrator il-kor I prefer to latch seeker, honestly. Blue twos aren't exactly full of *aggro* support.
Latch seeker and the infiltrator attack on the same turn, but infiltrator is sometimes harder to kill. Your opponent can't use instant speed removal on turn 3 to kill it unlike latch seeker and cant use sorcery speed removal to take it down at all before it gets in for 3.
Also, when in topdeck mode, a 3/1 unblockable for 5 isnt that much worse than a 3/1 unblockable for 3.
I happily run both, but infiltrator is sometimes just ridiculous.
Ill find a way to test topplegeist and il-kor, see how they turn out
I know this thread hasn't gotten much attention lately, but I really want a few people to look through my cube and make some comments on it.
I am pretty satisfied with it, but I think I can still improve. It is your typical Peasant cube with typical bannings like Sol Ring, Warhammer, and such. I am looking to make everything balanced and synergistic.
You've got every green Naturalize creature I have, plus actual Naturalize, plus Beast Within... you REALLY don't need the crappy green Replica. Wall of Roots is an obvious omission.
War Horn was outright embarrassingly bad when I tried it after Origins came out
Thank you guys so much for your feedback. I will be gathering cards and making a few adjustments in the next couple weeks. You guys are awesome as always!! I will come back with my edits thought process!
(pre-emptive answer to "WHERE IS GOOD NEW CARD X" is that I haven't really bothered with changing the cube too much for sets since Eldritch Moon. Yes, I need Ahn-Crop Crasher and Gaea's Anthem and... uh mostly those two, with like 30 other passable cards like every playable vehicle.)
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My initial take on shadow was that it was non-interactive and I didn't include any of the aggro shadow dudes. I made an exception for Soltari Champion to get an extra anthem effect in white. As an aside (and related to doing 2-man drafts), I'm thinking I should cut down on a few aggro creatures in black and red as it seems to come together a little too easily, but perhaps increasing the quality by putting in the shadow guys.
Whitemane Lion sees a fair bit of play actually. I'm too lazy to check right now, but I think it is the only flash version in my cube, and that is relevant nearly every time it gets played.
"Belfry Spirit is way worse than Custodi Squire at face value, and I think even with your amount of tokens support" - Yep, sounds reasonable. I'm surprised I haven't played this alongside Goblin Bombardment where it would be filthy, but oh well.
"Arrest... why this over Banishing Light? More maindeck answers to artifact/enchantments = better Cube matches" - It was probably diversity at the time I made the choice, or maybe this was an add when I removed Path or Swords? In any case this argument makes sense. I don't recall off-hand whether the SOI one targets all permanents or just creatures, maybe I'll go that instead.
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"Wingcrafter (and to a lesser extent Cloudfin Raptor) -- you have so few blue creatures that can attack well for less than three mana, these guys are going to be way worse than their full potential" This is making me rethink my blue section a bit in general. I've never tried to push aggro in blue, but I'm thinking it might be worth exploring a bit more.
"Umara Entangler... why?" I must have been on drugs. I don't know why I thought this was good at the time. I have no defence for this awful choice. Maybe if it was surrounded by other aggro cards. But it isn't.
"Thieving Magpie -- Lu Xun, Scholar General exists and you play online rares, so...?" - No particular reason. I'll upgrade if it isn't a casualty of changing up blue.
"Favorable Winds -- you have four creatures in blue at CMC 3 or less that benefit from this." It's been ok, but I see your point. I see Welkin Tern in my future.
"Sphinx's Tutelage -- pretty redundant with Psychic Spiral around" Funnily enough, I think I'd rather Sphinx's Tutelage. While I've only played it once, I had Psychic Spiral sitting in my hand the whole game because it simply wasn't going to do enough. I'm going to completely ignore your advice and add more redundancy for repeat effects
Vampire Interloper should be Olivia's Bloodsworn - Next update I'll make this swap.
"Viscera Dragger... graveyard decks don't usually care about a random 3/3 one-shot attacker, and the flexibility of cycling isn't really worth playing a Hill Giant." Yeah, I see this in packs and am never excited. Time to go.
"Worm Harvest -- ew, no, never this card ever (only slightly sarcastic)" I love a Worm Harvest win
"Zombify -- is this not just embarrassingly bad compared to every single other reanimation effect you play? At least make it Dread Return." Yeah, this is skipped over most of the time. I might try out Victimize again.
"Sigiled Skink -- gross" - Maybe I overrate the smoothing given this is the second comment on this?
"Pyreheart Wolf -- I'll say the same thing I say every time -- get Goblin War Drums instead" - I wouldn't say it has seen plenty of play, but each time I do I underestimate how annoying it is to face. I can see the effect happening immediately probably being worth more. How would you compare the Ally that grants the effect? You don't get menace the following turn, but you have an additional attacker?
Greater Mossdog -- "random drawstep, or Hill Giant? WOW, GIMME THAT HILL GIANT!!!" - Yep. Will swap.
Dawn's Reflection -- I like making Arbor Elf better, but this just seems insanely slow. No Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl??? - Hmm. I'm sure Utopia Sprawl used to be in my cube, but a quick cubetutor search says no. Bizarre. I don't mind Dawn's Reflection though as a fixer and ramp card. At a glance, I could swap out Keen Sense which hasn't seen heaps of play, or replace Dawn's Reflection and add some big artefact ramp.
I like Lion considerably less than Kor Skyfisher and even Emancipation Angel (it SEEMS like paying W for +1/+0 would make it a subpar card, but that card continues to perform well and impress). It's just... a 2/2. If you want to save your own stuff, I'd look at Shelter and/or Gods Willing.
The SOI card I assume you mean is Angelic Purge, which hits creatures-enchantment-artifacts. It's a fine option here too if you've removed the A+ tier stuff like Swords/Path.
Firemantle Mage leaving behind a random 2/2 body is pretty useless. I think it's worse than getting Gorilla War Cry for one mana less + (slow) cantrip, or the outright NO BLOCKS of Order // Chaos.
Keen Sense is indeed pretty bad. I play Curiosity, but the effect is a lot nicer on a Vaporkin than on whatever green 2-drop is around.
Paying four mana for a ramp card just doesn't sit right with me. I'm OK with Hedron Archive since it turns itself back into real cards later in the game if you get that far, but... I just don't see it with Dawn's Reflection. Just too much worse than Cultivate and Kodama's Reach (they're also functionally +2 mana if you would ever miss a land drop in the first whatever number of turns, which I think is the case in the majority of games).
I'd play an actual 2/1 red Omenspeaker, but... yeah, Skink isn't that.
Rock Slide isn't awful, just way worse than Rolling Thunder (which itself is a card currently not in my cube since it was underwhelming) or static number spells like Arc Lightning.
--
How exactly did you "chump" a Lightning Berserker? It trades with literally anything with a positive number as its power.
The SOI card I was thinking was Bound by Moonsilver, but it is creatures only. I'm not sure about Angelic Purge as a sorcery. Banishing Light might be it.
Skink I can probably just drop in favor of something else entirely.
I;ll stick with Rock Slide until I've seen it in play (or stuck in my hand) a few times. I'd agree that Rolling Thunder is the 'better' card overall, but I think this is more in tune with the gameplay I want to engender.
I meant trade, not chump.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/25358
Elite Vanguard. Why not the 2/1 protection from dragons?
jeskai barricade
kami of the ancient law < ronom unicorn
syndic of tythes
abzan falconer
blessed spirits
emancipation angel
heliods pilgrim
mardu hordechief
nearheath chaplain
war oracle
gods willing
swift justice
immolating glare
fortify
that’s enough white.
phantasmal bear
elusive spellfist
illusory angel
silumgar sorcerer
stitched drake
thassa’s emissary
blustersquall
opt
ghostly flicker
sphinx’s tutelage
mind control
stinkweed imp
tooth collector
accursed witch
bellowing saddlebrute
the lack of Go for the Throat
insolent neonate
wall of razors
priest of 3 red mana
thopter engineer
embodiment of fury
blind with anger
magmatic insight
dragon fodder
It's bedtime now.
I'm curious about some of the cards you've listed as being problems. Obviously without context I can't tell whether they you just don't like them, or don't see them working in the current configuration of guitarspiders cube. I'll have to come back and check the cube later, but for example Blessed Spirits doesn't seem to need a lot of support (but at least some). Mind Control seems like a perfectly playable card, unless you mean from a power-max viewpoint that this should be Control Magic.
Leadfeather:
Elite Vanguard: It's a soldier for Cenn's Tactician. I'm not super happy with Tactician, so it's perfectly possible I'll play the dragon guy again soon-ish. I do try to avoid running functionally identical cards, so I'd rather not run all the 2/1s, if I can avoid it. I probably should, but hey.
Squirrely said a lot of things I would have had to write down otherwise, so thanks. Two things I want to add: Mind Control: There is basically no way I will play Control Magic in a cube where I've depowered a good chunk of the removal. I've seriously considered going to Confiscate in fact.
I love Wall of Razors. It's the best cheap defensive creature red has and it's not burn.
Phit77:
Jeskai Barricade: Wall of Omens is obviously good, but it's also desperatly dull. So I'm trying this, but it's entirely possible it should just be Nyx-Fleece Ram, as Squirrely said.
Heliod's Pilgrim: I'll definitely think about more auras for my next update, I've basically had the same impression: I don't have quite enough of them.
Pegasus Stampede is a bad Goblin Trenches, which means it's still ok. I cut Trenches because my players kept complaining about the rare symbol (I mostly play with inexperienced players, so online rarities are arcane and "rares are better than uncommons" is a thing). It's extremely likely to come back at some point though. I really wish the EMA printing was uncommon.
Ultimate Price: I do depower removal, but I'm not against good removal on principle, so having some premium removal to top off a body of mediocre-to-good removal makes sense to me. That is a bit inconsistent maybe.
Discard spells: I do run Ostracize. I prefer it over Duress because of the creature clause. It's true that Inquisition of Kozilek would be nice, but I don't own one and I'm not getting one at the current price. Ostracize is not so much worse that I feel the need to spend 13 bucks on an Inquisition.
Red dragons: I'm not married to either, tbh, but that's what red has. I do want to provide some options for slower red decks and there are not that many out there. As Markov Warlord would be functionally almost the same as Volcanic Dragon I put in Shockmaw.
Dance with Devils: I'm not sure yet just how good or bad this card is, but it does make combat very tricky, which I like. I suspect it would be too clunky for a good number of cubes. Four mana is a lot, but it can also blow you out.
Mwonvuli Beast Tracker: Funny story: I totally misread this card when I ordered it, I thought it'd draw the creature. I realized I was wrong, but I already had the card, so I put it in anyway. It's barely ok and it's going to get cut soon. The artwork is pretty good though.
Squirrely:
Yes, Kazandu Blademaster is pretty interchangeable. There wasn't anything else at the mana cost with +1/+1 counters that I really liked. Any suggestions?
Roil's Retribution: You're right that it should probably go.
Enlightened Tutor: I don't own one, it's been pretty expensive to get. Maybe I can get one after the new EMA printing.
Blustersquall: I really like its flexibility. It also works better with the spell pump theme in the Jeskai colors, because of its flexible mana cost. It just fits my environment really well, but I believe I would expect Sleep to be the better card in most cubes.
Insolent Neonate is another case of a card that is lower power strictly speaking, but it does so many things I want in red. It'll easily do 2-3 damage, then it allows you to get rid of a land and get an actual card.
Priest of Urabrask is another "let's see if it works at all" scenario. It's basically a worse Burning-Tree Emissary. So far I've liked it well enough, but it's far from spectacular, the kind of card that is going to get cut sooner or later.
Reincarnation is whacky. Sometimes you get insane value, especially in graveyard decks, and other times it doesn't do anything. To be perfectly honest, for the foreseeable future it's going to stay in the cube just for being interesting. It creates really cool and unique situations.
Ulvenwald Mysteries: how good this is really depends on the speed of your environment. If you can get it going, it basically adds an Elvish Visionary with flash to your hand every time one of your non-token creatures dies, which is pretty good.
Gerrard's Verdict: I'm not really sure what I want my 4th Orzhov card to be, so for the moment it's the Verdict. Pillory and Persecution are definitely on the short list.
Goblin Trenches: see Pegasus Stampede above.
Artifact subtheme: It's ok, nothing more. The cards are in the cube because blue-red doesn't have a ton of themes that haven't been done to death. The problem is that most of the cards are parasitic and that there really aren't enough good artifact creatures. I wouldn't really recommend trying this theme at the moment, it's fun, but not particularly powerful and I'm basically trying to make it work against better knowledge and to spice things up.
Reclusive Artificer has actually been ok. Often you just won't play it, but in the right deck it'll regularly do 2-3 damage when it comes down and then throw its 2/3 body into the fray. Cranial Plating: similarly to Artificer, it's mostly decent if you play it, but you won't play it too often. Ensoul Artifact is really swingy, but it does work out a decent amount. There's enough thopter tokens, equipment and utility artifacts to make it a good late pick a decent amount of the time. Soultether Golem can work surprisingly well with tokens. As blue/red are my artefact colors and red has a bunch of tokens, it works out kind of alright. To my own surprise, I'll admit, it was a desperation choice. I'll probably cut it when they print better artifact creatures. Or whenever I grow tired of trying to make artifacts work.
Chronomaton and Triskelion are good suggestions, thanks!
Codex Shredder: as you said, it is a little unimpactful, but it works together with all the other mill cards. Millstone is too slow alone, but it's really meant to be a complementary piece. Sphinx's Tutelage is the the key mill card really. May still be right to cut Millstone for something else.
Springleaf Drum: I like it a lot. It's good with small creatures, it's good with instants (block then tap), it's good with tokens and it makes any color you want. It's not going to break the game of course.
Fodder Cannon: I'm on the fence too. It's expensive and sometimes it's just too slow, but it can also take over games if your opponent can't remove it and has to play their creatures into it.
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
I am a sucker for full art cards.
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
It looks like if I can support topplegeist, you can too.
I'd raise an eyebrow at:
One thousand lashes
(It feels a waste to play two of the same effect. In gold. Unburial rites or zealous persecution seem like better choices)
And how good have:
Rage forger
Stab wound
Pyrewild shaman
Been?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Why arent you running:
Infiltrator il-kor I don't feel it is as strong as other shadow creatures, I already play latch seeker although it could be argued that seeker is harder to cast based on UU restriction, it does get in a turn earlier. I also think CMC 2 is a pretty competitive spot for blue decks and I don't consider it the best top deck
Lust for war I did play it for some time, but for the card usually fell short for some reason. I guess I never gave it a true chance, but when I play red aggro I want to crash in all the time and playing 1 drop into 2 drop into this and then not wanting to attack so the card could start going to work seemed too slow? Not sure if this makes sense, but its a card I put in and take out frequently
Topplegeist This card never really hit my radar as something I wanted or needed. I think if I knew I could get delirium consistently I would put it in, but I think the 1/1 gets outclassed quickly and is hard to trade up with. Has this card been great for you or others?
Tooth collector I just cut this for Baleful Ammit testing. It can down to this, Liliana's Specter or another aggro card. I think I chose the collector because I have a lot of removal in my cube and in black, so this potential 2 for 1 was fine to drop. I had this card with delirium and its great, but didn't happen that often. Still a card that I like and will potentially put back in.
Obsessive skinner Another card not really on my radar, I think if I knew I could hit delirium often enough I would put it in, but even with as much GY enabling as my cube has, it doesn't happen that often. It's definitely something I could look out in the future and maybe will test.
It looks like if I can support topplegeist, you can too.
I'd raise an eyebrow at:
One thousand lashes
(It feels a waste to play two of the same effect. In gold. Unburial rites or zealous persecution seem like better choices)
I try to really push my archetypes and make them noticeable. Unburial rites is a card I don't care for in Orzhov, zealous persecution is definitely a great card, much better than most of the orzhov cards I play, but again I like to be archetype forward for my gold cards, even if that means for those sections I am playing cards that may not be the best for those slots. I don't mind the redundancy and the activated ability clause has come up before.
And how good have:
Rage forger I somewhat recently put this in and it hasn't seen play yet, but since +1/+1 counters have been pushed a lot more recenlty, I suspect this card will do alright
Stab wound People seem to not like this card on these forums, but I really like it. My BW drain decks usually end up as me not attacking as much as really just letting my opponent drain out. So I am not really worried about using stab wounds and then attacking and it not doing much. Worst case scenario you can use it as a removal spell in a pinch, but it usually ends up doing 6+ damage for me in a game while also making my opponents creature do 6+ less damage to me.
Pyrewild shaman Haven't drafted since this has been added. Family have been in town ruining my plans.
Been?
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Mana Drain - Too good IMO.
Psionic Blast - Outside of blue's color pie.
Control Magic - Really powerful and seems unnecessary since you have mind control.
Bone Shredder - It's bad removal and a bad creature, not sure that making it both in one card makes it good.
Hymn to Tourach - Too good, leads to unfun games IMO.
Rage Forger - I didn't see a ton of support for +1/+1 counters outside of G/W, and this seems pretty bad outside of that deck
Lead by Example - Are there really no better cards to support +1/+1 counters with?
Renegade Map - Seems slow and bad
Behemoth Sledge/Loxodon Warhammer - Seems too good especially with the low amount of artifact removal.
Mana Drain - It's very strong, very strong, but honestly not unbeatable. This has been added more recently and I am keeping an eye on it.
Psionic Blast - I don't play cards based on color pie. This card is great and I can't imagine it being cut anytime soon.
Control Magic - Great card, I don't mind the redundancy here yet, if anything would remove mind control before this for sure.
Bone Shredder - This card is actually great in my cube. I play a lot of GY cards and using this as a removal and then bring it back again and again is great.
Hymn to Tourach - I don't have a problem with strong cards in my cube, they can be difficult to beat, but this card hasn't caused a complete non-game for a long time, and having it happen every once in a while isn't too much of an issue to me. I think you can come back from getting hit by a solid Hymn.
Rage Forger - Roughly 9-10+ creatures with +1/+1 counters or ability to get counters just from red in my cube, pairing that up with W/G can make a very strong RX counters deck, having about 8+ cards in a color to support an archetype seems strong enough to me. Honestly haven't played with it yet though, its something I am testing with the large amount of +1/+1 counter support that has been thrown at us in the last few sets.
Renegade Map - Great fixing, when you don't play any rare lands this is just as good if not better than tapped lands in certain situations. Sure slow, but same with all other fixing in peasant.
Behemoth Sledge/Loxodon Warhammer - Loxodon is definitely a P1P1 card in my cube, agreed it is extremely strong. My philosophy about these cards and how to handle them may be a little different then most. I don't care for playing disenchant/artifact removal cards. In my opinion those are a waste of a slot in a deck and something you usually don't main deck. I think most colors have ways to deal with these cards, white has good creature removal and a couple of effects to handle the artifacts themselves, blue has counter spells and bounce creatures, red has a ton of removal and generally an extremely fast clock that may be too slow for something like the hammer, black has tons and tons of removal and some discard, green typically has to just go over the top of it with very large creatures. There are games where these cards will win the game for you, but I keep an eye on it and if it ever gets completely out of hand I will probably take them out.
Surprised that Grafted Wargear wasn't also mentioned with these, I think this card is just as strong if not stronger sometimes due to the 0 equip cost.
Maybe I tend to try and keep my power level just a little higher than most, but I like the diverse and strong decks that can be made in my cube and honestly haven't had major issues with cards, except curse of predation (a card that in my opinion is bonkers, completely busted and overpowered) and maybe ghostly prison too which I don't think is unbeatable, but makes games stall out too frequently for my taste and has been removed recently. I do keep an eye on most of the strong cards you have listed here and I agree they are very strong and can be back breaking, I just don't think they have gotten to the point of banning/removal yet.
Edit: Lead by Example - Somehow missed this card when going through, there are a variety of +1/+1 counter cards, I like this one because it's a nice instant trick. Adding a permanent two power and two toughness to your board for two mana is quite nice at instant speed. I do think overall power level of counters support is not as strong as other cards, but the combos can be brutal
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Furthermore, I think the total lifetime damage output in an average game of this card when compared to an elite vanguard (higher damage, lower lifespan) is close enough that the etb makes up the difference when played on later turns.
Topplegeist makes hands with multiple 1 drops better (or, better than most double 1 drop hands), instead of occasionally awkward.
Tooth collector, has been around average, and I don't run skinner. I just saw a lot of discarding and otherwise filling of the graveyard, so I figured I'd mention the three best delirium cards.
/
Infiltrator il-kor I prefer to latch seeker, honestly. Blue twos aren't exactly full of *aggro* support.
Latch seeker and the infiltrator attack on the same turn, but infiltrator is sometimes harder to kill. Your opponent can't use instant speed removal on turn 3 to kill it unlike latch seeker and cant use sorcery speed removal to take it down at all before it gets in for 3.
Also, when in topdeck mode, a 3/1 unblockable for 5 isnt that much worse than a 3/1 unblockable for 3.
I happily run both, but infiltrator is sometimes just ridiculous.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Ill find a way to test topplegeist and il-kor, see how they turn out
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
I am pretty satisfied with it, but I think I can still improve. It is your typical Peasant cube with typical bannings like Sol Ring, Warhammer, and such. I am looking to make everything balanced and synergistic.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/36546
If you have any questions on reasons I have specific cards or what the color/guild archetypes are, just ask.
Thanks ahead of time to anyone who takes a look.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
Or belfry spirit for more tokens since it seems you're into that.
Sultai emissary is a better butcher ghoul
harsh scrutiny is a better ostrasize
experiment one is a notable omission
wood elves is a card we recently just decided was not good enough (civic wayfinder just does it better)
I would guess you have one too many disenchant effects in your cube. A lot of sitting in sideboards.
Blossoming defense is a better sheltering word
Porcelain legionnaire and spined thopter get played outside of their native colors roughly 60% of the time, so I wouldn't call them white and blue.
I would assume commune with the gods is bad. Most of these effects are in cubes that I see
I would assume sickleslicer is too slow?
As all in on tokens as you are, goblin bombardment is also a notable exclusion
Your phyrexian spells will probably be very welcome in this list, because of how good they are in spells matters
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Kruin Striker is like 80% of the time going to be a worse Borderland Marauder
Seems odd to have Dragon Fodder and Zulaport Cutthroat but not Hissing Iguanar
You've got every green Naturalize creature I have, plus actual Naturalize, plus Beast Within... you REALLY don't need the crappy green Replica. Wall of Roots is an obvious omission.
War Horn was outright embarrassingly bad when I tried it after Origins came out
Migratory Route is miles better than Arctic Aven and Skymark Roc unless you really want a super aggressive UW deck to work
No Clone???
No Skyship Plunderer but instead still Cloudskate?
Thank you guys so much for your feedback. I will be gathering cards and making a few adjustments in the next couple weeks. You guys are awesome as always!! I will come back with my edits thought process!
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/36546
My Peasant Cube Forum
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/682833-360-peasant-hasteds-cube
My Riviera Live Draft Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/35647
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
(pre-emptive answer to "WHERE IS GOOD NEW CARD X" is that I haven't really bothered with changing the cube too much for sets since Eldritch Moon. Yes, I need Ahn-Crop Crasher and Gaea's Anthem and... uh mostly those two, with like 30 other passable cards like every playable vehicle.)