Yeah, it is annoying that we don't really have data in aggro in particular. However, while you may be playing aggro only maybe a third of the time, aggro should be on the table half of the time (out of the six matchups between aggro control and midrange, half have aggro as a deck).
So the effect of an aggro deck may be somewhat lost in the noise, but it's definitely accounted for quite a bit.
The more that you think it's affected by going first, then it must be true that midrange and control matchups are not. So if you think that aggro is doubly affected, it would mean that non aggro matchups are a 50/50 split for first and second in order to make the math work out. If you thinl aggro is more effected to the tune of 55/45%, then it must mean that for nonaggro matchups its 45.5/54.5 in favor of going second.
We still havent established why the baseline would be higher than in the RDW cube, though.
The difference is that the point of pressure comes much later. When an aggro deck starts putting on pressure, you need to have an answer now or in the next 2-3 turns, but in control and midrange matchups you often get X more turns to find that thing you need to stabilize.
So when I'm the aggro deck vs anything else and I have powerplay, not only am I forcing my opponent to have an answer but I'm doing it by applying pressure t1(2) going forward and actively attacking their life total. If I'm a blue deck and I'm casting preordain, or I'm a green deck and I'm playing an elf t1, I'm doing something but I'm not really actively forcing my opponent to react. Yes, bolting the elf would be more beneficial then letting my opponent untap with it, but there are a number of other plays you could make too that would help you keep up that don't require having an answer for that elf.
Against aggro, if I preordain into chart a course into compulsive research, then I'm not actually progressing a thing considering what my opponent is doing to me and by t4 it could be too late. That opening against a midrange deck or another control deck will be punished so much less. Yes, I might still stabilize because of what I've found, but there's pressure on finding that because my opponent is pretty thrilled that everything they've done has not been answered.
So when I need to be putting foot on the gas t1 going forward, then a card like powerplay is actually buying me an extra turn since I'm always/hopefully always putting that pressure on t1(2), but in other decks there's much less of an overall need to go first due to gaining card advantage or tempo over turns in a variety of ways.
"2) Can we identify anything different about CUbes compared to those formats? A small thing is that almost all of those MTGGoldfish results were prior to the new mulligan rules, which could admittedly have an effect in other direction, but is worth considering. "
I actually suddenly realize that the stats don't tell you how often people mulligan.
Mulligans tend to range from a little worse for the player going first to being waay worse for the player going first. But I have no idea how often it actually came up back then.
Edit
Actually, if mulligans depress the winrate of going first disproportionately, then our more casual mulligan rules would make going first just a tad bit better
I've been observing and I don't have massive opinions on Power Play. I can see the argument that if it looks like you are drafting an aggressive deck you think will win before your opponent empties their hand, then you might value it higher. Which is probably weirder than most conspiracies, which seem like they are early picks and then you adjust your draft to suit, and this seems counter to that.
Leelue, what casual mulligan rules do you run? I do the standard mulligan rules (drop 1 card, scry) and haven't had too many issues, but I suppose there are still the occasional non-games.
What is the Hearthstone mulligan? I don't play Hearthstone, so I'm not familiar with how that works.
We just allow free mulligans here with the only actual rule being 'don't be a dick'. If people are taking mulligans aggressively to find their bombs, then that violates the only rule and we don't invite them back. I won't pretend like free mulligans don't affect the games or the keep decisions, but I don't think it affects them enough to create a bad or unhealthy environment. For the most part people just keep reasonable hands, mulligan unreasonable hands, or mulligan a few unreasonable/mediocre hands and keep a mediocre hand after growing tired of shuffling.
The hearthstone mulligan is mostly the same as the old EDH one, partial paris. You see your hand, chose which cards to replace, refill and shuffle the cards you chose away. You only get to do this once, however.
So you always draw the replacements first, rather than shuffling the unwanted and THEN drawing? Not a huge difference either way, but I suppose you guarantee you won't redraw your late game cards if you don't want them in your opener. Does this type of mulligan maybe favour aggro, because it increases the ability to curve out? I suppose midrange and control are similar in that they can sculpt a better hand to suit their game plan.
I did all the conspiracies, let's go back to do the Conspiracy: Take The Crown cards. Some of these should really be in the 'draft matters' section in hindsight.
Cue fights about Manaplasm, which I know was a semi-recent hot topic.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Palace Jailer - 4 Description - It costs one more than Fiend Hunter, but you get to play the monarch game. The good news is that in addition to making you the monarch, the ability on Palace Jailer also removes a creature from the opposing board, making it more likely you will keep the monarchy and keep drawing cards. Even if Palace Jailer has to trade or even chump and they get their creature back, it might be enough to keep the monarchy for an extra turn, often allowing you to draw 2 cards before you are at threat of actually losing it. Anchors - Supports -
Palace Sentinels - 2 Description - a 2/4 for 4 with 'draw a card' would be a solid card, and this can end up being a lot more. The 4 toughness makes it a reasonable blocker to help maintain the monarchy. There will be occasions where it's worse (your opponent has a board state where they can take the crown and likely keep it), but there are still a range of scenarios where this will still be good. Anchors - Supports -
Wings of the Guard - 1 Description - It's a 2/2 flying attacker for 2, which is worth something. It might survive being blocked by a 1/1 Spirit token or some such, but not having 2 power when you are behind probably puts it behind something like Stormfront Pegasus. You might cube it for maximum redundancy of cheap flyers. Anchors - Supports -
Coveted Peacock - 1 Description - You can get flyers with that extra point of power at this cost, but the effect is somewhat unique, and can be a way to eat some of your opponents creatures and whittle their board if the skies are clear and you've got something else reasonable to block with. Even if you don't block the target, it might open up attacks on your next turn. Cards like Murder of Crows and variants are going to better in the majority of cases, but it opens up lines of play you don't get from many cards. Anchors - Supports -
Sinuous Vermin - 2 Description - It's mostly a 'filler' 2-drop, but if you can curve it into a 5/5 menace (or just threat of activation after attacking) you aren't going to be upset. Less good if you have to pay 7 mana in the late game, but the opportunity cost is low. If you are looking for more +1/+1 counters in black, you might consider it a bit higher. Anchors - Supports - +1/+1 counters
Thorn of the Black Rose - 2 Description - It's bad stats for 4 mana, but you get a death toucher to take out anything grounded they throw at you which helps you to retain the crown and keep drawing cards. Anchors - Supports -
Regicide - 1 Description - It will depend on your draft format, but this is probably fine in 8-mans, with occasional relegation to the sideboard (or coming out of the sideboard depending on your preference). Clearly wonky in 2-man formats. Anchors - Supports -
Besmirch - 2 Description - The double red can make it a bit harder to swallow than similar options. However, the bonus here is nice as it can allow aggressive decks to keep applying pressure. If they choose not to kill their own creature that combat (and you are still happy if they do), forcing it to attack you the next turn means it can't block again on your next turn, which might be enough to close the door when an Act of Treason may not. Anchors - Supports -
Garbage Fire - 1 Description - It will depend on your draft format of choice, but you will probably accept 4 damage as a baseline, and 5 or more starts looking pretty good. Anchors - Supports -
Pyretic Hunter - 1 Description - It will depend on your draft format of choice, but if this is going to be 5/5 or better with menace, you are looking good. Anchors - Supports - +1/+1 counters
Crown-Hunter Hireling - 1 Description - Red doesn't get many ways to draw repeat cards, making this an option for red control decks. The stats make it a decent blocker in its own right, helping you protect the crown. Anchors - Supports -
Animus of Predation - 2 Description - A 4/4 for 5 is not a great baseline, and you probably need two decent keywords to make it worthwhile. There is an opportunity cost to those keywords, as they take up extra picks, but there are some combination of keywords which are going to challenge opponents, and when there is nothing else for your deck you can just pick something with a keyword. It's probably more fun than a great card, but it probably creates some good stories. Anchors - Supports -
Borderland Explorer - 2 Description - It's a 3 power 2-drop for aggressive decks, and if it is in your opener you can keep land light hands that might otherwise be sketchy. It does let your opponent search too which seems like a drawback, but for some this can actually be a feature, and lead to less non-games. Being able to discard a card of choice provides some marginal synergy with graveyard themes. Anchors - Supports - Graveyard Matters, Reanimator
Leovold's Operative - 1 Description - It's value will depend on your draft format. You are never going to include it in a deck, but being able to take a strong first and second pick out of a future pack that is on-colour or on theme is pretty strong. Anchors - Supports -
Manaplasm - 2 Description - It bears comparison to Hungry Spriggan, as both want to be in aggressive decks. Manaplasm has higher variance, but the opportunity to 'go big' can be more interesting and open up different decisions trees. Curving out with a 4-drop and then 1 or 2 spells totalling 5 mana is going to be difficult to block, but by the same token top decking Hungry Spriggan is usually going to be much better than Manaplasm. Anchors - Supports -
Entourage of Trest - 2 Description - Solid monarch card, and better than most if you are behind by virtue of being able to block two grounded creatures to protect the crown for a turn if needed, plus the stats are reasonable enough to protect it. Anchors - Supports -
Knights of the Black Rose - 1 Description - ok stats if you think about it as drawing a card off it. A 4/4 is decent enough stats that it might hold off or trade against crack backs. The triggered ability probably won't come up often, but prevents scenarios where your opponent would be happy to hand the crown back and forth. Being a gold card makes it less desirable than some of the mono-colored options. Anchors - Supports -
Marchesa's Decree - I want this card to have a home, and if it just said 'draw a card' it might be palatable in the right deck. However, it does want your opponent to attack to get the trigger, and there is a chance your opponent can just take the crown, meaning you lose out on the advantage (especially as you just played a card that didn't impact the board).
Smuggler Captain - On the one hand, getting a free draw into what is probably a strong card you drafted prior sounds decent... on the other hand, if you draw that other card first then you just paid 4 mana for a 2/2. Not worth that inconsistency.
Deputized Protester - Given you can get a 3/2 menace straight up, there is no reason to cube this unless you play multiplayer.
Goblin Racketeer - It's got the power to take out something that it goads, but it isn't going to be consistent enough.
The ratings on Monarch cards here are... interesting.
I think Palace Jailer is firmly on par with Skinrender, so an absolute staple and a 4.
Coveted Peacock... probably IS significantly worse than Murder of Crows. It's probably in the "if it was free in my basics box, nobody would ever play it" so down to a 0.
Sinuous Vermin is versatile enough to get a 2.
Thorn of the Black Rose is pretty great, I'd give it a 2-3 (it's MILES better than Accursed Witch or Bellowing Saddlebrute which are current 2's, but still doesn't really feel like a 3).
Domesticated Hydra is pretty badly outclassed by the newly uncommon Heroes Bane, but I guess still worth a 1.
Leovold's Operative is an EXTREMELY good drafting card. No idea how it ranks, but it's basically always going to be taken 3rd or 4th by competent players.
--
Palace Sentinels is a 2. It's way worse than Jailer, but if that card is a Go for the Throat (4) then this is as good as a Last Gasp (2).
Spectral Grasp is basically a strictly better Pacifism (currently a 2), in case you ever want to Threaten or Mind Control the same target.
Skittering Crustacean is fine for the same reason that Vermin is. A bit worse starting point, but still worth a 1.
Typo on Spire Phantasm
Regicide is wonky but probably works out to be worth an easy 2.
Crown-Hunter Hireling is worth a 1, maybe a 2. Good card for control decks, but in red and at that cost it's pretty narrow.
Entourage of Trest is something I play in basically every Llanowar Elves deck and am happy to see like 4th or 5th pick in most drafts. It's REALLY good for green decks. 2, if not a 3. I cut Nessian Asp (current 2) for it and would never consider swapping back.
(Knights of the Black Rose is basically a worse 2-color Entourage, but it's still fine and worth a 1)
I know it's technically correct, but I don't like calling Spectral Grasp strictly better because of an extreme edge case. Might as well argue you can threaten a grasped creature and attack before sacking if you ever get to play Mardu aristocrats. It's not actually relevant.
I have played very few of those cards in my CUbe, but I will agree that Palace Jailer is absurdly good. It is an immediate 3-for-1 the turn it is played, and it usually puts opponents so far behind that it is difficult for them to become the monarch and sometimes almost nearly impossible to catch up at all.
I would imagine most of the other monarch cards deserve at least a 1. It makes sense that Entourage of Trest is the next best one, since it is an immediate 2-for-1 that also defends the Monarchy well, compared to Palace Sentinels and Thorn of the Black Rose.
Yeah, I found the monarch cards difficult to evaluate as I haven't played with them. If you replaced monarch with 'ETB, draw a card' they would probably all be good... I wondered how often the "drawback" of your opponent being able to take and retain the monarchy comes into effect in games. If you can retain the monarchy, of course it is better than just a single card draw, but potentially giving your opponent that card draw every turn if you can't defend it or retake it scares me.
Based on the above comments I assume I'm overestimating how easy it is to lose, and underestimating them in general. I'm fine with adjusting based on io's comments for the most part, with a few responses.
Coveted Peacock - I think it IS worse than Murder of Crows, and probably even just a vanilla Air Elemental, but I think it does something unique enough for a niche rating. I always wanted a 'forced attack' card to be playable, and this seems one of the closest after Besmirch. If you drafted a blue deck with Coveted Peacock and were given the chance to swap it for an Air Elemental at the end of the draft, how often would you? Probably most of the time, but I can imagine some decks with first strikers or decent blockers where it makes sense.
Domesticated Hydra - I'd forgotten about Heroes' Bane. I'd assume they are probably close enough in function that you would always play Heroes' Bane and wouldn't play this.
Regicide - Probably fine in 8-mans. I'd have no idea how to play this with my 2-man formats.
Crown Hunter Hireling - 1 sounds fine. Red doesn't get many ways to draw cards every turn, so I could see this in the right deck.
Spectral Grasp - I'll combine it with Pacifism in a single entry, and call out the differences.
The problem with Peacock is it's a poorly sized 5-drop that needs you to untap with it, attack AND have a second, substantial creature on board. I think it's like 95% you'd rather have Air Elemental in your draft pool, and if that's rated as a 1...
Peacock at 1 seems correct to me. Effectively removing a blocker can be useful in a number of blue decks. Pretty sure I'd play that over Air Elemental in more than 5% of my blue decks.
I have played very few of those cards in my CUbe, but I will agree that Palace Jailer is absurdly good. It is an immediate 3-for-1 the turn it is played, and it usually puts opponents so far behind that it is difficult for them to become the monarch and sometimes almost nearly impossible to catch up at all.
This is why I haven't tried any of the monarch cards in cube. In EDH they're totally fine because someone will always be able to do something about the monarch, but in cube I'm really worried about the snowballing effect just killing the game.
I imagine my first thought was like most people: I'll just get the monarch and this won't be a problem!
But it is a problem, especially if they can trade or chump with the jailer and you don't immediately get the monarch. It seems like more often than not you're drawing at least 2 cards before they can get their guy back and then at that point your deck (which probably doesn't have a lot of natural card draw) is burying your opponent and it's almost irrelevant when they get their guy back. It's the rare banisher priest ability where you don't really care what happens to the body after, letting you do whatever you want to protect the monarch vs protecting the much more fragile creature.
Uncoveted Peacock I'm still going to give it a niche category; sacrificing some power but adding a somewhat unique effect. I'll update the description to make that clearer.
I clearly need to play with Palace Jailer / monarch and get a better understanding of how it plays out. 4 seems a smidge high, but with more people on board with that score that is where I'll put it.
Plus, while this deck might not be that great, it showcases another one of Palace Jailer's big benefits: it can be bounced without the creatures it has exiled returning, which means that if you have a repeatable way to trigger its ETB, you can keep controlling to board to retain your status as the monarch indefinitely.
I clearly need to play with Palace Jailer / monarch and get a better understanding of how it plays out. 4 seems a smidge high, but with more people on board with that score that is where I'll put it.
It might be contender for 'most innocuous looking card considering how well it plays', unless you're severely on the backfoot it's really tough for them to immediately get their creature back which means you're keeping monarch and that means it's really tough for your opponent to do a thing.
The difference is that the point of pressure comes much later. When an aggro deck starts putting on pressure, you need to have an answer now or in the next 2-3 turns, but in control and midrange matchups you often get X more turns to find that thing you need to stabilize.
So when I'm the aggro deck vs anything else and I have powerplay, not only am I forcing my opponent to have an answer but I'm doing it by applying pressure t1(2) going forward and actively attacking their life total. If I'm a blue deck and I'm casting preordain, or I'm a green deck and I'm playing an elf t1, I'm doing something but I'm not really actively forcing my opponent to react. Yes, bolting the elf would be more beneficial then letting my opponent untap with it, but there are a number of other plays you could make too that would help you keep up that don't require having an answer for that elf.
Against aggro, if I preordain into chart a course into compulsive research, then I'm not actually progressing a thing considering what my opponent is doing to me and by t4 it could be too late. That opening against a midrange deck or another control deck will be punished so much less. Yes, I might still stabilize because of what I've found, but there's pressure on finding that because my opponent is pretty thrilled that everything they've done has not been answered.
So when I need to be putting foot on the gas t1 going forward, then a card like powerplay is actually buying me an extra turn since I'm always/hopefully always putting that pressure on t1(2), but in other decks there's much less of an overall need to go first due to gaining card advantage or tempo over turns in a variety of ways.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I actually suddenly realize that the stats don't tell you how often people mulligan.
Mulligans tend to range from a little worse for the player going first to being waay worse for the player going first. But I have no idea how often it actually came up back then.
Edit
Actually, if mulligans depress the winrate of going first disproportionately, then our more casual mulligan rules would make going first just a tad bit better
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Leelue, what casual mulligan rules do you run? I do the standard mulligan rules (drop 1 card, scry) and haven't had too many issues, but I suppose there are still the occasional non-games.
Warning: Not for the durdly-hearted!
We just allow free mulligans here with the only actual rule being 'don't be a dick'. If people are taking mulligans aggressively to find their bombs, then that violates the only rule and we don't invite them back. I won't pretend like free mulligans don't affect the games or the keep decisions, but I don't think it affects them enough to create a bad or unhealthy environment. For the most part people just keep reasonable hands, mulligan unreasonable hands, or mulligan a few unreasonable/mediocre hands and keep a mediocre hand after growing tired of shuffling.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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My 540 peasant cube
Standard
Modern
Legacy
EDH/Commander
Cue fights about Manaplasm, which I know was a semi-recent hot topic.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Palace Jailer - 4
Description - It costs one more than Fiend Hunter, but you get to play the monarch game. The good news is that in addition to making you the monarch, the ability on Palace Jailer also removes a creature from the opposing board, making it more likely you will keep the monarchy and keep drawing cards. Even if Palace Jailer has to trade or even chump and they get their creature back, it might be enough to keep the monarchy for an extra turn, often allowing you to draw 2 cards before you are at threat of actually losing it.
Anchors -
Supports -
Palace Sentinels - 2
Description - a 2/4 for 4 with 'draw a card' would be a solid card, and this can end up being a lot more. The 4 toughness makes it a reasonable blocker to help maintain the monarchy. There will be occasions where it's worse (your opponent has a board state where they can take the crown and likely keep it), but there are still a range of scenarios where this will still be good.
Anchors -
Supports -
Wings of the Guard - 1
Description - It's a 2/2 flying attacker for 2, which is worth something. It might survive being blocked by a 1/1 Spirit token or some such, but not having 2 power when you are behind probably puts it behind something like Stormfront Pegasus. You might cube it for maximum redundancy of cheap flyers.
Anchors -
Supports -
Coveted Peacock - 1
Description - You can get flyers with that extra point of power at this cost, but the effect is somewhat unique, and can be a way to eat some of your opponents creatures and whittle their board if the skies are clear and you've got something else reasonable to block with. Even if you don't block the target, it might open up attacks on your next turn. Cards like Murder of Crows and variants are going to better in the majority of cases, but it opens up lines of play you don't get from many cards.
Anchors -
Supports -
Sinuous Vermin - 2
Description - It's mostly a 'filler' 2-drop, but if you can curve it into a 5/5 menace (or just threat of activation after attacking) you aren't going to be upset. Less good if you have to pay 7 mana in the late game, but the opportunity cost is low. If you are looking for more +1/+1 counters in black, you might consider it a bit higher.
Anchors -
Supports - +1/+1 counters
Thorn of the Black Rose - 2
Description - It's bad stats for 4 mana, but you get a death toucher to take out anything grounded they throw at you which helps you to retain the crown and keep drawing cards.
Anchors -
Supports -
Regicide - 1
Description - It will depend on your draft format, but this is probably fine in 8-mans, with occasional relegation to the sideboard (or coming out of the sideboard depending on your preference). Clearly wonky in 2-man formats.
Anchors -
Supports -
Besmirch - 2
Description - The double red can make it a bit harder to swallow than similar options. However, the bonus here is nice as it can allow aggressive decks to keep applying pressure. If they choose not to kill their own creature that combat (and you are still happy if they do), forcing it to attack you the next turn means it can't block again on your next turn, which might be enough to close the door when an Act of Treason may not.
Anchors -
Supports -
Garbage Fire - 1
Description - It will depend on your draft format of choice, but you will probably accept 4 damage as a baseline, and 5 or more starts looking pretty good.
Anchors -
Supports -
Pyretic Hunter - 1
Description - It will depend on your draft format of choice, but if this is going to be 5/5 or better with menace, you are looking good.
Anchors -
Supports - +1/+1 counters
Crown-Hunter Hireling - 1
Description - Red doesn't get many ways to draw repeat cards, making this an option for red control decks. The stats make it a decent blocker in its own right, helping you protect the crown.
Anchors -
Supports -
Animus of Predation - 2
Description - A 4/4 for 5 is not a great baseline, and you probably need two decent keywords to make it worthwhile. There is an opportunity cost to those keywords, as they take up extra picks, but there are some combination of keywords which are going to challenge opponents, and when there is nothing else for your deck you can just pick something with a keyword. It's probably more fun than a great card, but it probably creates some good stories.
Anchors -
Supports -
Borderland Explorer - 2
Description - It's a 3 power 2-drop for aggressive decks, and if it is in your opener you can keep land light hands that might otherwise be sketchy. It does let your opponent search too which seems like a drawback, but for some this can actually be a feature, and lead to less non-games. Being able to discard a card of choice provides some marginal synergy with graveyard themes.
Anchors -
Supports - Graveyard Matters, Reanimator
Leovold's Operative - 1
Description - It's value will depend on your draft format. You are never going to include it in a deck, but being able to take a strong first and second pick out of a future pack that is on-colour or on theme is pretty strong.
Anchors -
Supports -
Manaplasm - 2
Description - It bears comparison to Hungry Spriggan, as both want to be in aggressive decks. Manaplasm has higher variance, but the opportunity to 'go big' can be more interesting and open up different decisions trees. Curving out with a 4-drop and then 1 or 2 spells totalling 5 mana is going to be difficult to block, but by the same token top decking Hungry Spriggan is usually going to be much better than Manaplasm.
Anchors -
Supports -
Entourage of Trest - 2
Description - Solid monarch card, and better than most if you are behind by virtue of being able to block two grounded creatures to protect the crown for a turn if needed, plus the stats are reasonable enough to protect it.
Anchors -
Supports -
Knights of the Black Rose - 1
Description - ok stats if you think about it as drawing a card off it. A 4/4 is decent enough stats that it might hold off or trade against crack backs. The triggered ability probably won't come up often, but prevents scenarios where your opponent would be happy to hand the crown back and forth. Being a gold card makes it less desirable than some of the mono-colored options.
Anchors -
Supports -
Spectral Grasp - Add to Pacifism.
I think Palace Jailer is firmly on par with Skinrender, so an absolute staple and a 4.
Coveted Peacock... probably IS significantly worse than Murder of Crows. It's probably in the "if it was free in my basics box, nobody would ever play it" so down to a 0.
Sinuous Vermin is versatile enough to get a 2.
Thorn of the Black Rose is pretty great, I'd give it a 2-3 (it's MILES better than Accursed Witch or Bellowing Saddlebrute which are current 2's, but still doesn't really feel like a 3).
Domesticated Hydra is pretty badly outclassed by the newly uncommon Heroes Bane, but I guess still worth a 1.
Leovold's Operative is an EXTREMELY good drafting card. No idea how it ranks, but it's basically always going to be taken 3rd or 4th by competent players.
--
Palace Sentinels is a 2. It's way worse than Jailer, but if that card is a Go for the Throat (4) then this is as good as a Last Gasp (2).
Spectral Grasp is basically a strictly better Pacifism (currently a 2), in case you ever want to Threaten or Mind Control the same target.
Skittering Crustacean is fine for the same reason that Vermin is. A bit worse starting point, but still worth a 1.
Typo on Spire Phantasm
Regicide is wonky but probably works out to be worth an easy 2.
Crown-Hunter Hireling is worth a 1, maybe a 2. Good card for control decks, but in red and at that cost it's pretty narrow.
Entourage of Trest is something I play in basically every Llanowar Elves deck and am happy to see like 4th or 5th pick in most drafts. It's REALLY good for green decks. 2, if not a 3. I cut Nessian Asp (current 2) for it and would never consider swapping back.
(Knights of the Black Rose is basically a worse 2-color Entourage, but it's still fine and worth a 1)
And anyway the main point that it’s certainly not a 0
I would imagine most of the other monarch cards deserve at least a 1. It makes sense that Entourage of Trest is the next best one, since it is an immediate 2-for-1 that also defends the Monarchy well, compared to Palace Sentinels and Thorn of the Black Rose.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Based on the above comments I assume I'm overestimating how easy it is to lose, and underestimating them in general. I'm fine with adjusting based on io's comments for the most part, with a few responses.
Coveted Peacock - I think it IS worse than Murder of Crows, and probably even just a vanilla Air Elemental, but I think it does something unique enough for a niche rating. I always wanted a 'forced attack' card to be playable, and this seems one of the closest after Besmirch. If you drafted a blue deck with Coveted Peacock and were given the chance to swap it for an Air Elemental at the end of the draft, how often would you? Probably most of the time, but I can imagine some decks with first strikers or decent blockers where it makes sense.
Domesticated Hydra - I'd forgotten about Heroes' Bane. I'd assume they are probably close enough in function that you would always play Heroes' Bane and wouldn't play this.
Regicide - Probably fine in 8-mans. I'd have no idea how to play this with my 2-man formats.
Crown Hunter Hireling - 1 sounds fine. Red doesn't get many ways to draw cards every turn, so I could see this in the right deck.
Spectral Grasp - I'll combine it with Pacifism in a single entry, and call out the differences.
This is why I haven't tried any of the monarch cards in cube. In EDH they're totally fine because someone will always be able to do something about the monarch, but in cube I'm really worried about the snowballing effect just killing the game.
I think peacocks is a zero
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
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Also, yeah, seeing it in play
But it is a problem, especially if they can trade or chump with the jailer and you don't immediately get the monarch. It seems like more often than not you're drawing at least 2 cards before they can get their guy back and then at that point your deck (which probably doesn't have a lot of natural card draw) is burying your opponent and it's almost irrelevant when they get their guy back. It's the rare banisher priest ability where you don't really care what happens to the body after, letting you do whatever you want to protect the monarch vs protecting the much more fragile creature.
I've convinced myself it's a 4.
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I clearly need to play with Palace Jailer / monarch and get a better understanding of how it plays out. 4 seems a smidge high, but with more people on board with that score that is where I'll put it.
insane
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
It might be contender for 'most innocuous looking card considering how well it plays', unless you're severely on the backfoot it's really tough for them to immediately get their creature back which means you're keeping monarch and that means it's really tough for your opponent to do a thing.
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