Scalelord needs you to resolve a 6-drop, untap with it, and pop +1/+1 counters onto creatures TWICE before it's (barely) better than a two-color Mahamoti Djinn.
Like, I get the point that it's a way to represent what Selesnya is about (+1/+1 counters), but it's just so vastly worse than something like Abzan Falconer at that job and it's never going to make it into decks drafted by competent players.
OTOH I actually like Deathfang (at 1), since the payoff is potentially Plague Wind-ing your opponent instead of MAYBE getting Goliath Sphinx. It's worth noting that you want to pair it with two not-Dimir cards, though.
Once I remembered white has Patron of the Valiant, spending a gold slot on what is probably a worse card doesn't look so appealing. So 0.
Only Cauldron Dance seems worth mentioning from all of the 6cmc+ spells. After this, that leaves a few outliers (split cards, and I think the conspiracy sets weren't part of my list, there might be a few other oddities), and then we will be due to add Ixalan now that it has been out for a while.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Cauldron Dance - 1 Description - Quirky card. More interesting than powerful, but it can give you 2 extra ETB effects from something that has hit the graveyard. In some cases you can get down 2 hasty attackers, but you can use it on defence if needed. Anchors - Supports - Graveyard Matters
Coursers' Accord - At worst, you get 2 3/3's, and not really worth a 6 mana gold card. Breaking that floor is going to happen too infrequently to consider it (having Roar of the Wurm in your cube is probably your best bet if you really want to pursue it).
Death Mutation - 8 mana is a crapload, such that it puts this out of contention.
Dragon Appeasement - It's unique and interesting, but you MUST have a way to sacrifice creatures. There just isn't going to be a deck that is going to be able to use it consistently enough.
Elder Mastery - It's some nice upside for a pants archetype, but not at 6 mana and 3 colours.
Gleam of Battle - Curse of Predation might be too good for some, but paying 6 mana across 2 colours is not good enough.
Morbid Bloom - You aren't going to get 6 mana's worth of tokens often enough, and it does nothing else to affect the game 99% of the time.
Morgue Burst - It can kill a creature while getting you back a decent target, but at 6 mana there are just better Rakdos options that this doesn't get consideration.
Pollenbright Wings - It is some decent upside on a mid to large creature, but 6 mana is a huge investment if it can be undone with removal, or the opponent might have a relevant flyer.
I don't see a need to dwell on those. It's a short list, so others can touch on those gold cards along with these if needed.
Split cards. I guess when it comes to putting these on the front page, I'll leave them in their own list. With everything else sorted by cmc and most of these having two costs, they don't really fit neatly into the existing lists.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Appeal // Authority - 1 Description - Appeal might be a signal if you want to promote go wide / token strategies. It's narrower and has a lower ceiling than something like Predator's Strike, but can reward building around it. Authority is a nice upside, but you would probably consider this a green card first and foremost. Anchors - Supports - Tokens / Go Wide
Consign // Oblivion - 1 Description - It's possible to cast Consign on the opponents end step and then use Oblivion to force them to discard it if they only have 2 cards. 5 mana is a lot, but Consign is efficient enough that Oblivion is just upside. You might cube it over Vapor Snag if you want your blue bounce spells to deal with most card types. Anchors - Supports -
Far // Away - 1 Description - Both modes are a mana more than 'retail', but the flexibility of either mode might make it worth consideration. The fuse at least means you can bounce their worst creature to get a better sacrifice target, and at least gets two creatures off the board at instant speed. Cube it as a tool primarily for control decks, as most other decks won't want it. Anchors - Supports -
Fire // Ice - 2 Description - Neither mode is exceptional, but the flexibility makes up for it in an Izzet deck. Fire can do mop up or clear out creatures, while Ice can keep something at bay in control decks, or where there aren't good targets for Fire. Anchors - Supports -
Life // Death - 2 Description - Reanimate that costs 1 more mana is still very good for reanimator decks as well as many other decks. Life can act as a finisher, especially if you support land based ramp. Several hasty 1/1's the opponent wasn't expecting can clinch a game if you've provided any pressure. Pairs nicely with anthem effects (Gaea's Anthem, Soltari Champion etc) Anchors - Supports - Reanimator, Go Wide
Order // Chaos - 2 Description - Most players would consider this a red card, as Order is pretty bad. Chaos on the other hand can end games in aggro decks or midrange decks after a bit of pressure has been applied. Anchors - Supports -
Rise // Fall - 1 Description - Rise is effectively a 1 for 1 that also sets the opponent back on the board and probably never bad, but seems most at home in Dimir aggro / tempo, and support for that deck is the reason you might consider it. Fall might be a 'fair' Hymn to Tourach that doesn't steal your lands on turn 2, and might be better cast on turn 4 alongside another 2 drop or something to maximise its value. Rise is probably the main reason to consider cubing this though. Anchors - Supports -
Assault // Battery - Neither mode is efficient and the flexibility doesn't make up for it.
Claim // Fame - Claim is a smaller Unearth, but the difference between 2 and 3 is too significant, and the possibility of casting Fame afterwards isn't enough.
Dead // Gone - It's just outside the curve, but far enough that you don't want to consider cubing it.
Destined // Lead - Other black gain indestructible instants are better. The aftermath upside isn't really worth considering it.
Down // Dirty - It's just too inefficient in any mode for something that doesn't affect the board.
Give // Take - You could make an argument that Give provides synergy with +1/+1 counters, but it would be a pretty hard sell over Elephant Guide and you wouldn't need both. Take feels less relevant as giving up board presence to draw cards is usually not a good plan.
Hit // Run - Awkward colour consderations aside, Hit isn't very good. Run isn't going to consistent enough for a 5 mana card.
Reduce // Rubble - Reduce is a worse Mana Leak, and Rubble's timing is narrow.
Rough // Tumble - Rough is much narrower than Pyroclasm and alternatives. I guess it could make it into a Skies deck to clear out opposing small creatures for the race, but I don't think you need to reach that far to give that deck such narrow tools. Tumble just seems bad.
Spite // Malice - I suppose it can answer everything, but it isn't very efficient.
Spring // Mind - Spring is not efficient enough to consider Mind as 'free' upside', and taken as a whole package it isn't efficient enough.
Turn // Burn - Turn could just be Snakeform, Burn could be Lightning Bolt or variant. As a package, something like Prophetic Bolt is going to be better in most situations.
Wax // Wane - Just 'meh'. You could cube it and play Wax in some non-white green decks that need pump, but you'd never feel good about it.
Wear // Tear - It provides removal, but there are better options for that.
There are Destructive Tampering and Falter as replacements for Chaos, but they both don't hit fliers. I would put it at a 1 because there's better evasion giving stuff like Pyreheart Wolf and Goblin War Drums, but if you're up against spiritToken.dec it's probably the best option.
I would put Appeal//Authority at a 2. Appeal can slip in 6+ damage on a turn without a good attack, and Authority does 4 pretty easily. Does need a high creature count or token producers, but that isn't hard in GW.
The problem with Falter is that it's just super situational, not that it frequently gets thwarted by Spirit tokens. I mean, Chaos is still better, but it's definitely not more than a 1.
Fire // Ice makes it into like 90% of my red decks and 100% of UR decks, I think it's a 3.
Profit // Loss is ... I can't even think of an analogy for how much worse than Zealous Persecution it is.
I'm really surprised people are so down on Chaos. Seems like a solid aggro finisher to me. "2R, tap all creatures you control, deal damage to target player equal to the combined power of creatures tapped this way". Chaos isn't exactly that, but it's pretty close. I don't agree that Pyreheart Wolf and Goblin War Drums are clearly better either. I think it depends on the deck, and I'd put these in the same classification (I think from memory those would have been 2's.)
Give, from Give // Take, I didn't think to compare it to Oakenform, or the strictly better Elephant Guide, i was thinking more about +1/+1 counter cards. Elephant Guide's upside is certainly worth more than the chance of being blown out by instant speed enchantment removal... could I argue that you would choose Give over it if you really wanted to push +1/+1 counter synergies? Maybe, but I think I'd be alone. Actually, Riding the Dilu Horse is probably better as well in the same role.
Purple, I'm reluctant to move Appeal // Authority abvoe a 1. I think the ceiling is there, but from a cube design perspective I think you want to be pushing the tokens / go wide theme harder than usual to consider it. I don't think it fits a 2 (generally interchangeable effects).
Completely forgot about Zealous Persecution. I mean, you CAN cast Profit // Loss if you only have one colour, but nope.
Appeal//Athority is an aggro card more than it's a tokens card. Getting +3/+3 or +4/+4 isn't difficult in GW, even without token production. The other definition of a 2 is that it requires a little support to be good, which I think fits it quite well. It's a unique effect for the colours, but I don't think GW aggro is an obscure archetype.
Is there a similar card to compare it to that got a 0? Appeal probably does ~5 damage and Authority probably deals ~4 damage. If you look at Nightbird's Clutches, which got a 1, being double Authority, Appeal//Authority is 3 mana cheaper and does more damage. I'm looking at it like Reckless Charge, which got a 2, with less conditional damage but a lower ceiling.
Obviously comparing it to red cards isn't the best frame of reference, but I can't think of another green or white card to compare it to.
A 2 mana Giant Growth would also get a hard 0, but Giant Growth got a 2. Also, considering Appeal//Authority is basically twice as good as Larger than Life it's not really a useful comparison.
How much damage to face does a 3 mana card need to be a 2? In a single turn Appeal//Authority probably does 7-8 damage, which is on the high range of Threaten (also got a 2). Over 2 turns it can deal 9-10, which I don't think any card comes close to.
it’s face damage that demands that you already have a pretty good board, and you need your reach spells to not be so inconsistent. It’s “twice as good” if you assume the front half is the same amount of pump, which demands a board with four creatures on it...
Also 1cmc vs 2 doesn’t really matter a ton for spells that are basically finishers
Instant vs Sorcery speed also has a lot to do with it. Being able to pump the guy that's not being blocked for extra damage or respond to a burn spell to save your guy is a huge upside.
Appeal can be a finisher, but playing it before the final turn often gives the most value since it turns a non-attacker into an attacker. Playing it along with another threat makes 1cmc vs. 2 matter a ton.
It certainly has problems with consistency against kill spells and having to trade off, but it's not like there's a swath of options for GW reach that are more consistent and similar in power level. GW is also ~70% creatures; it's not hard to have a substantial board, especially considering you can play creatures prior to playing it. A single token producer also gets it to a strong state basically immediately (Cloudgoat + Appeal//Authority is pretty nuts).
It isn't a combat trick, so it's not meant to save creatures. It's not really comparable to stuff like Giant Growth because of that. Predator's Strike is closer, but it loses a lot of damage for it's versatility. The only time you would pump a creature with a combat trick for damage is to get lethal, and if you are trying for lethal Appeal//Authority is almost always going to do more.
A 2 mana Giant Growth would also get a hard 0, but Giant Growth got a 2. Also, considering Appeal//Authority is basically twice as good as Larger than Life it's not really a useful comparison.
On what basis is it twice as good? Do you mean because you get two spells out of it (assuming you are playing both colours)?
I can see you have it in your cube and are probably coming from a perspective of some experience. Maybe it does have to be evaluated more as a Selesnya card, as I think even if I'm heavy tokens / go wide, if I didn't have access to white mana I think I would always swap Appeal for Giant Growth or Predator's Strike if I had the choice. They have a capped pump, but they are always going to do what you want, more useful when you are behind etc.
When comparing Appeal to Giant Growth you say 'it isn't a combat trick, so it isn't meant to save creatures'. I think that is only because it isn't an instant. Changing it from sorcery to instant is clearly an upgrade, allowing it to be more flexible in a lot of situations. You could still cast it at sorcery speed, but you never would. That's why Larger Than Life is a 0; 1 less damage on Predator's Strike is absolutely worth the instant speed so you can cast it after your opponent has committed blocks.
Perhaps my initial assessment is off (that you would consider this a green card first with some upside if you are white) and is more of a Selesnya card (which is how you have classified it in your cube, though that might be by default). Either way, while it does have a high ceiling, the variance and sorcery speed are what will keep it out of most cubes.
Looking back at the Hour spoiler thread there wasn't much discussion on the card and I was the only one who tested/supported it. My original thoughts probably summarize the card as well as I can, though I would now still include it if I had a 3 card guild section:
Yes, neither side is remotely playable by themselves, but they are on the same card. In an aggressive shell Authority is probably worth a bit less than half a card, so how much damage (by making an attack you couldn't otherwise make) would Appeal have to do for it to be worth the difference? 4? 5? 6? I'm going with about 5, which is probably easy enough to do. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets cut pretty soon after it's inclusion, but I could see it being a reasonably powerful card as well. My general thoughts for the card are as follows: if you don't have an aggressive GW section don't play this card, if you have a small guild section don't play this card, and otherwise it's testable.
Past this there isn't really any new arguement I can come up with, but I think it compares quite favourably with similar red effects with similar or better levels of consistency.
Like, I get the point that it's a way to represent what Selesnya is about (+1/+1 counters), but it's just so vastly worse than something like Abzan Falconer at that job and it's never going to make it into decks drafted by competent players.
OTOH I actually like Deathfang (at 1), since the payoff is potentially Plague Wind-ing your opponent instead of MAYBE getting Goliath Sphinx. It's worth noting that you want to pair it with two not-Dimir cards, though.
Only Cauldron Dance seems worth mentioning from all of the 6cmc+ spells. After this, that leaves a few outliers (split cards, and I think the conspiracy sets weren't part of my list, there might be a few other oddities), and then we will be due to add Ixalan now that it has been out for a while.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Cauldron Dance - 1
Description - Quirky card. More interesting than powerful, but it can give you 2 extra ETB effects from something that has hit the graveyard. In some cases you can get down 2 hasty attackers, but you can use it on defence if needed.
Anchors -
Supports - Graveyard Matters
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Split cards. I guess when it comes to putting these on the front page, I'll leave them in their own list. With everything else sorted by cmc and most of these having two costs, they don't really fit neatly into the existing lists.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Appeal // Authority - 1
Description - Appeal might be a signal if you want to promote go wide / token strategies. It's narrower and has a lower ceiling than something like Predator's Strike, but can reward building around it. Authority is a nice upside, but you would probably consider this a green card first and foremost.
Anchors -
Supports - Tokens / Go Wide
Consign // Oblivion - 1
Description - It's possible to cast Consign on the opponents end step and then use Oblivion to force them to discard it if they only have 2 cards. 5 mana is a lot, but Consign is efficient enough that Oblivion is just upside. You might cube it over Vapor Snag if you want your blue bounce spells to deal with most card types.
Anchors -
Supports -
Far // Away - 1
Description - Both modes are a mana more than 'retail', but the flexibility of either mode might make it worth consideration. The fuse at least means you can bounce their worst creature to get a better sacrifice target, and at least gets two creatures off the board at instant speed. Cube it as a tool primarily for control decks, as most other decks won't want it.
Anchors -
Supports -
Fire // Ice - 2
Description - Neither mode is exceptional, but the flexibility makes up for it in an Izzet deck. Fire can do mop up or clear out creatures, while Ice can keep something at bay in control decks, or where there aren't good targets for Fire.
Anchors -
Supports -
Life // Death - 2
Description - Reanimate that costs 1 more mana is still very good for reanimator decks as well as many other decks. Life can act as a finisher, especially if you support land based ramp. Several hasty 1/1's the opponent wasn't expecting can clinch a game if you've provided any pressure. Pairs nicely with anthem effects (Gaea's Anthem, Soltari Champion etc)
Anchors -
Supports - Reanimator, Go Wide
Order // Chaos - 2
Description - Most players would consider this a red card, as Order is pretty bad. Chaos on the other hand can end games in aggro decks or midrange decks after a bit of pressure has been applied.
Anchors -
Supports -
Rise // Fall - 1
Description - Rise is effectively a 1 for 1 that also sets the opponent back on the board and probably never bad, but seems most at home in Dimir aggro / tempo, and support for that deck is the reason you might consider it. Fall might be a 'fair' Hymn to Tourach that doesn't steal your lands on turn 2, and might be better cast on turn 4 alongside another 2 drop or something to maximise its value. Rise is probably the main reason to consider cubing this though.
Anchors -
Supports -
Give from give and take is basically just oakenform. Zero.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I would put Appeal//Authority at a 2. Appeal can slip in 6+ damage on a turn without a good attack, and Authority does 4 pretty easily. Does need a high creature count or token producers, but that isn't hard in GW.
Nantuko Husk + Falkenrath Noble/Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat + Life is decent.
My Peasant Cube - CubeCobra
Fire // Ice makes it into like 90% of my red decks and 100% of UR decks, I think it's a 3.
Profit // Loss is ... I can't even think of an analogy for how much worse than Zealous Persecution it is.
Give, from Give // Take, I didn't think to compare it to Oakenform, or the strictly better Elephant Guide, i was thinking more about +1/+1 counter cards. Elephant Guide's upside is certainly worth more than the chance of being blown out by instant speed enchantment removal... could I argue that you would choose Give over it if you really wanted to push +1/+1 counter synergies? Maybe, but I think I'd be alone. Actually, Riding the Dilu Horse is probably better as well in the same role.
I'll chuck Fire // Ice to 3.
Purple, I'm reluctant to move Appeal // Authority abvoe a 1. I think the ceiling is there, but from a cube design perspective I think you want to be pushing the tokens / go wide theme harder than usual to consider it. I don't think it fits a 2 (generally interchangeable effects).
Completely forgot about Zealous Persecution. I mean, you CAN cast Profit // Loss if you only have one colour, but nope.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Obviously comparing it to red cards isn't the best frame of reference, but I can't think of another green or white card to compare it to.
How much damage to face does a 3 mana card need to be a 2? In a single turn Appeal//Authority probably does 7-8 damage, which is on the high range of Threaten (also got a 2). Over 2 turns it can deal 9-10, which I don't think any card comes close to.
Also 1cmc vs 2 doesn’t really matter a ton for spells that are basically finishers
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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It certainly has problems with consistency against kill spells and having to trade off, but it's not like there's a swath of options for GW reach that are more consistent and similar in power level. GW is also ~70% creatures; it's not hard to have a substantial board, especially considering you can play creatures prior to playing it. A single token producer also gets it to a strong state basically immediately (Cloudgoat + Appeal//Authority is pretty nuts).
It isn't a combat trick, so it's not meant to save creatures. It's not really comparable to stuff like Giant Growth because of that. Predator's Strike is closer, but it loses a lot of damage for it's versatility. The only time you would pump a creature with a combat trick for damage is to get lethal, and if you are trying for lethal Appeal//Authority is almost always going to do more.
I can see you have it in your cube and are probably coming from a perspective of some experience. Maybe it does have to be evaluated more as a Selesnya card, as I think even if I'm heavy tokens / go wide, if I didn't have access to white mana I think I would always swap Appeal for Giant Growth or Predator's Strike if I had the choice. They have a capped pump, but they are always going to do what you want, more useful when you are behind etc.
When comparing Appeal to Giant Growth you say 'it isn't a combat trick, so it isn't meant to save creatures'. I think that is only because it isn't an instant. Changing it from sorcery to instant is clearly an upgrade, allowing it to be more flexible in a lot of situations. You could still cast it at sorcery speed, but you never would. That's why Larger Than Life is a 0; 1 less damage on Predator's Strike is absolutely worth the instant speed so you can cast it after your opponent has committed blocks.
Perhaps my initial assessment is off (that you would consider this a green card first with some upside if you are white) and is more of a Selesnya card (which is how you have classified it in your cube, though that might be by default). Either way, while it does have a high ceiling, the variance and sorcery speed are what will keep it out of most cubes.
Past this there isn't really any new arguement I can come up with, but I think it compares quite favourably with similar red effects with similar or better levels of consistency.
What'd be your 3 card selesnya section
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
If you 'ban' Sledge and don't count Finks (hybrid)... what's left?
I've got Enlisted Wurm, because Cascade amuses me, but beyond that... pretty slim options.
I mean, I'm obviously pretty down on the split card whose name I'm completely blanking on, but it's not like Selesnya is teeming with better options .