The bar's really gone up for Falter on a stick creatures lately, Glarewielder seems too inefficient compared to Ahn Crop Crasher, Goblin Heelcutter, and Markov Warlord. I think it can go to 0.
Looking in the trash, Eron the Relentless doesn't seem too bad. Five power with haste will often just get through when it's cast even if you can't leave up regeneration mana, and if you're attacking with regeneration mana open Eron's really hard to block profitably. I haven't actually run Eron, but with the dearth of playable red 5s, I have to admit I've been tempted.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I was going to make an Ahn-Crop Crasher comparison to Glarewielder in my description, but while they share an effect I thought they were different enough. Ahn-Crop applies the early pressure, but you are never casting that on curve and then winning the game that turn. I'd see it as a companion to the Crasher, not one or the other.
I don't think I can get behind Eron the Relentless though. I don't think a 5cmc 5/2 haste is that good (because almost anything can kill it in combat), and I expect the statement that you will often get through the turn you cast it even if you don't have regeneration mana up is optimistic. 3 mana of the same colour to regenerate is also pretty rough. In most 2+ colour decks (I don't think I've ever played a mono-colour deck out of my cube), it probably negates your ability to play your other red spells while you keep the mana up.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Reckless Wurm - 1 Description - You want to have a very high density of discard for this to be worth it. Otherwise Vildin-Pack Outcast is just going to be better. Anchors - Madness / Discard Outlets Supports -
Seismic Elemental - 2 Description - It can be a decent top end creature to get your earlier plays through, whether to close the game or get them on a low enough life total that you can swing around them the next turn. Glarewielder is a similar alternative; that usually applies more immediate pressure, while this gives a better creature if you need a blocker. However if they've built out a sizeable ground force, this will help break through them. Anchors - Supports -
Sprinting Warbrute - 2 Description - A decent enough curve topper for aggro decks, mostly treated as a 4-drop to maintain immediate pressure. Anchors - Supports -
Vildin-Pack Outcast - 2 Description - 4/4 trampler for 5 is a passable base but not really worth cubing, however the other upsides give it some play. The activated ability already plays well with trample, and if you transform it, it becomes much harder to deal with. Anchors - Supports -
Nearheath Stalker - It dies to a sneeze, then dies to a slightly bigger sneeze. It's got decent power, but that power is going to just eat smaller creatures too often for the investment.
Night Revelers - It might trigger more than you'd think, but it isn't enough.
Pardic Lancer - If those abilities were always on, it might be up for consideration. But costing a card at random, nope.
Pharagax Giant - You will always get the worst mode for the situation.
Pitchburn Devils - If you want to get the dies trigger, I'd rather cube Mudbutton Torchrunner.
Prickleboar - a 5 power first striker isn't bad, but Keldon Halberdier is going to do most of the job on attack, but be a much better blocker and able to be cast for 1 mana when the times call for it.
Slash Panther - A 4 mana 4/2 haste without lifeloss would still not be worth it.
Snapping Thragg - A 3/3 for 5 probably isn't getting through much. Yes, it has morph, but you are paying 9 mana to MAYBE sneak it through, or they just block your morph… and then what?
Warchief Giant - 5 power haste for 5 isn't bad, but you really want that fourth point of toughness.
Wayward Giant - It is just 'middling'. It might make some decks if you were to draft it, but it doesn't really pull you in a direction and there isn't really a reason to cube it over other options.
Whiptail Moloch - Too conditional. It either kills itself, or it kills something else… then dies to most 3-drops due to lack of toughness.
Wild Celebrants - There are better artifact removal options.
Wildfire Cerberus - I can see board states where it is good, but the poor toughness undermines the upside too much.
I'd love it if Thundercloud Shaman worked, but unfortunately it doesn't. For giants there's really only Sentinel of the Eternal Watch, Cloudgoat Ranger doesn't go into the same deck and on its own shaman doesn't do enough.
I don't think I can get behind Eron the Relentless though. I don't think a 5cmc 5/2 haste is that good (because almost anything can kill it in combat), and I expect the statement that you will often get through the turn you cast it even if you don't have regeneration mana up is optimistic. 3 mana of the same colour to regenerate is also pretty rough. In most 2+ colour decks (I don't think I've ever played a mono-colour deck out of my cube), it probably negates your ability to play your other red spells while you keep the mana up.
Perhaps I'm underestimating the burden of the triple red in the regen cost and overestimating the likelihood of sneaking in 5 damage the turn it's cast, but I'd really be curious to hear from anyone who's tried Eron. I'll admit that I haven't, but the competition for red 5s is poor enough that I've seriously considered trying Eron.
For people psychotic enough to support land destruction as an archetype, I could see Ogre Arsonist and Ravaging Horde being pretty good. Getting to add a 3/3 to the board while blowing up a land after having destroyed a land or 2 before seems like a pretty strong play. You'd need to be going deep enough to also be running Avalanche Riders, Molten Rain, Goblin Settler, and Stone Rain, but once you've added all of those I think these start to look good. They're certainly not for every cube, but I think Ogre Arsonist at the very least deserves a 1 for cubes supporting Ponza.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Electrickery is also instant which is pretty relevant. With only 1 damage on Thundercloud Shaman and at sorcery speed, you might nab something occasionally, but even if you don't have any x/1's, you still damage your own creatures that you might now be reluctant to send into combat.
Prickleboar... I want to give it a 1. There are some things it can run into that Halberdiers can't, but Prickleboar over the Halberdier probably only makes sense when 5 toughness has enough representation in in a cube. Nyx-Fleece Ram, Carven Caryatid, Baloth Null... I just did a check, I think I have 10 creatures that will at least trade with an attacking Halberdiers that would lose to an attacking Prickleboar, though I think 4 of those are 2 power first strikers. But you also have to offset that with Prickleboar being a worse blocker the vast majority of the time. I don't know.
Manticore of the Gauntlet 0. Wayward Giant... I guess if I saw it in a cube, I would draft it sometimes and I was in red, and would make some decks. But it probably doesn't need to be in the cube in the first place.
Ogre Arsonist - This can go to a 1, with the relevant caveats in the description. I don't think you'd want to go for the harder to cast Ravaging Horde though, and I doubt any cube would want both.
On Pyretic Hunter, I use gatherer extractor to get sets, and for some reason I don't have Conspiracy cards. I'm sure I identified the previously and tried to get them, but for whatever reason it didn't work. I can add that one in now seeing as its absence is particularly noted, the intent is to fill in any 'gaps' at the end (there are a few oddities like split cards that I've been ignoring for now).
On that particular card, my draft format doesn't suit it; how big does it normally get in standard draft packs? 5/5 seems good (and we've just eschewed the only slightly worse Wayward Giant), but any bigger than that and it seems pretty awesome.
Yeah, I did mean to mention that. Will make adjustments.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good. 3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect. 2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds). 1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect. No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Act of Aggression - 1 Description - It can be a 3 mana Blind With Anger for any colour, but 4 life isn't insignificant. Can be a way to give reach to each colour, particularly if you are trying to push green or blue aggro, though instant speed lets it be played in control decks. Anchors - Supports -
Cone of Flame - 2 Description - Shower of Coals is the better option, but this is still reasonable removal. Anchors - Supports -
Fissure - 1 Description - At 5 mana it isn't powerful removal, but it gets a mention as one of few red spells that outright destroys creatures of any size. You might also consider Aftershock to fill this slot. Anchors - Supports -
Goblin Rally - 1 Description - You wouldn't cube it over Hordeling Outburst, but if you are going deep on armies in a can, you might consider this. 4 bodies is great for sacrifice and go wide decks, and Goldnight Commander in particular will be pretty happy to see these goblins chasing after him. Anchors - Supports -
Jagged Lightning - 2 Description - Shower of Coals gets the nod, but this is still fine in its own right. Anchors - Supports -
Dissension in the Ranks - The appeal of a 2 for 1 is enticting, but SO many conditions have to go right for this to work. 1. You have to be in a position to attack. 2. They have to block with at least 2 creatures. 3. Those creatures both have to have toughness equal to or less than the power of the other. 4. Even if that does happen, your creatures are blocked so they aren't dealing damage this turn.
Extra Arms - There will be board states where it can do some work, but not consistently enough. Given the creature has to attack, it is probbaly going to get taken out in combat even if you manage to ping off something.
Fierce Invocation - Is the upside of being able to manifest it later (with 2 +1/+1 counters on it to boot) worth playing an otherwise vanilla 4/4 for 5? Doubtful.
Lava Storm - Trying to think when I would want to cast this… After attacks, clear out some 2 toughness aggro creatures… after double blocks, clearing out one of the blockers… after attacks or blocks when I've got first strikers… A few scenarios, but I don't see more than one of those coming up in most individual games.
I can't really imagine Cleaver Riot being better than any 3 mana +2/+0 effect. Doesn't work well with 1/1s, costs way more mana, doesn't end the game because it's sorcery, loses to removal, etc..
I tried Deem Worthy for a bit, but it was just too expensive to justify. It was great in native limited, but I would say a 0 or a 1 for cube.
I expected resistance on Blood Rites When I first put my cube together, I wanted to include Goblin Bombardment and didn't have one. So I cubed Blood Rites until I bought Bombardment. Goblin Bombardment is miles better of course, but they are very different cards (I was considering the effect, not the decks they would go in when I made the substitution, but it became clear Rites is not for aggro, where Goblin Bombardment is at home). It's been a while since I cubed it, and for sure there were times when you cast it and died before you could capitalise on it, but if you were stable it could be very threatening. It gave you potential to sac a few creatures at the end of opponents turn, untap and sac the rest for the win. My cube was certainly grindier and had less aggro cards in it at the time; if I swapped it in now it probably wouldn't see a lot of play. I'd probably want to cube a few more repeat token makers to consider it now. The mana investment is obviously significant; it's getting 2 damage per creature that is the appealing part to me.
Deem Worthy - ???
Description - Do we... deem it worthy? Kill almost anything on hard cast, and cyclying at 4 mana is likely to be a 2 for 1? For those who played it, how did it perform in native limited?
It's been perfectly playable in AKH/HOU limited, but as in most recent sets, the removal available is so inefficient compared to what we have access to in Peasant cubes that this really isn't that meaningful for the purposes of this thread. Creatures that are strong in retail limited typically have some chance of being good enough for us, mostly because power creep has been giving us more and better creatures, but as R&D seems to be deliberately limiting the quality of removal available below rare, in retail limited we're usually stuck playing removal that you'd never want anywhere near your cube.
Deem Worthy's hardcast mode is quite a bit worse than Fissure, and its cycling mode isn't really better than Zap or Solar Blast. I think we can deem it unworthy, let's give it a 0.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Homarid, forgetting the activation cost, how long before you even pay for the initial mana cost in the first place?
You have to lose four creatures for that, or so. 3.5ish. Because 3 creatures is a more flexible no-threshold shower of coals, but A) we probably wouldnt cube shower without the upside and B) you still need to make up for lost time (between cast and sacs) with some kind of value.
But that's just making up the cost, not talking about the loss of other resources.
Having to leave up 2 mana all the time, so you can't even get value in response to removal the turn you cast it, is real bad.
5 mana do nothings need less leniency, not more. Centaur glade for example, imo, is barely playable but acceptable because it turns nothing into something. 2 mana lose a guy to shock <<< 4 mana flash 3/3s.
I'm fine to be talked into 0 for Blood Rites. What would a playable upgrade to this look like? Not 'omg throw this into every cube' level good, but enough that you wouldn't fault it for being in a cube. 3cmc casting cost? Add 'ETB, create 3 Goblin tokens'? I expect that a 2 mana activation cost is a fair safety valve.
As hasty 5-drops go, I'd sooner run Eron the Relentless, Warchief Giant, or Glarewielder. By turn 5, Riot Devils get brick walled too easily and I can't really think of any particular synergies to make this any better than Goblin Rally, aside from the very fringe Minotaur tribal. I'd say 1 at best, but you'd have to be really trying to go deep on Fires and tokens to have any reason to cube Flurry of Horns.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Me too. 5-mana do-nothings have a high bar to clear, as Leelue points out. My comment was more in regards to how once, active, the blood rites could be better in some situations at actually grinding value useless, and I am sorry.
I've just been thinking about this now and I'm not even sure I'd play Blood Rites in EDH in ANY of my sac-based decks. Doesn't bode well for it in a cube context.
Looking in the trash, Eron the Relentless doesn't seem too bad. Five power with haste will often just get through when it's cast even if you can't leave up regeneration mana, and if you're attacking with regeneration mana open Eron's really hard to block profitably. I haven't actually run Eron, but with the dearth of playable red 5s, I have to admit I've been tempted.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Glarewiedler is most certainly not a 0, it's the best red 5 drop imo, I'd put it at 2.
I was going to make an Ahn-Crop Crasher comparison to Glarewielder in my description, but while they share an effect I thought they were different enough. Ahn-Crop applies the early pressure, but you are never casting that on curve and then winning the game that turn. I'd see it as a companion to the Crasher, not one or the other.
I don't think I can get behind Eron the Relentless though. I don't think a 5cmc 5/2 haste is that good (because almost anything can kill it in combat), and I expect the statement that you will often get through the turn you cast it even if you don't have regeneration mana up is optimistic. 3 mana of the same colour to regenerate is also pretty rough. In most 2+ colour decks (I don't think I've ever played a mono-colour deck out of my cube), it probably negates your ability to play your other red spells while you keep the mana up.
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Reckless Wurm - 1
Description - You want to have a very high density of discard for this to be worth it. Otherwise Vildin-Pack Outcast is just going to be better.
Anchors - Madness / Discard Outlets
Supports -
Seismic Elemental - 2
Description - It can be a decent top end creature to get your earlier plays through, whether to close the game or get them on a low enough life total that you can swing around them the next turn. Glarewielder is a similar alternative; that usually applies more immediate pressure, while this gives a better creature if you need a blocker. However if they've built out a sizeable ground force, this will help break through them.
Anchors -
Supports -
Sprinting Warbrute - 2
Description - A decent enough curve topper for aggro decks, mostly treated as a 4-drop to maintain immediate pressure.
Anchors -
Supports -
Vildin-Pack Outcast - 2
Description - 4/4 trampler for 5 is a passable base but not really worth cubing, however the other upsides give it some play. The activated ability already plays well with trample, and if you transform it, it becomes much harder to deal with.
Anchors -
Supports -
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I don't think prickleboar outdoes keldon halberdier, a card with a fairly low usage rate.
Manticore of the gauntlet is trash.
Wayward giant isnt threatening enough.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Perhaps I'm underestimating the burden of the triple red in the regen cost and overestimating the likelihood of sneaking in 5 damage the turn it's cast, but I'd really be curious to hear from anyone who's tried Eron. I'll admit that I haven't, but the competition for red 5s is poor enough that I've seriously considered trying Eron.
For people psychotic enough to support land destruction as an archetype, I could see Ogre Arsonist and Ravaging Horde being pretty good. Getting to add a 3/3 to the board while blowing up a land after having destroyed a land or 2 before seems like a pretty strong play. You'd need to be going deep enough to also be running Avalanche Riders, Molten Rain, Goblin Settler, and Stone Rain, but once you've added all of those I think these start to look good. They're certainly not for every cube, but I think Ogre Arsonist at the very least deserves a 1 for cubes supporting Ponza.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Prickleboar... I want to give it a 1. There are some things it can run into that Halberdiers can't, but Prickleboar over the Halberdier probably only makes sense when 5 toughness has enough representation in in a cube. Nyx-Fleece Ram, Carven Caryatid, Baloth Null... I just did a check, I think I have 10 creatures that will at least trade with an attacking Halberdiers that would lose to an attacking Prickleboar, though I think 4 of those are 2 power first strikers. But you also have to offset that with Prickleboar being a worse blocker the vast majority of the time. I don't know.
Manticore of the Gauntlet 0. Wayward Giant... I guess if I saw it in a cube, I would draft it sometimes and I was in red, and would make some decks. But it probably doesn't need to be in the cube in the first place.
Ogre Arsonist - This can go to a 1, with the relevant caveats in the description. I don't think you'd want to go for the harder to cast Ravaging Horde though, and I doubt any cube would want both.
On Pyretic Hunter, I use gatherer extractor to get sets, and for some reason I don't have Conspiracy cards. I'm sure I identified the previously and tried to get them, but for whatever reason it didn't work. I can add that one in now seeing as its absence is particularly noted, the intent is to fill in any 'gaps' at the end (there are a few oddities like split cards that I've been ignoring for now).
On that particular card, my draft format doesn't suit it; how big does it normally get in standard draft packs? 5/5 seems good (and we've just eschewed the only slightly worse Wayward Giant), but any bigger than that and it seems pretty awesome.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
4 - Staple - Cards with enough base power that your cube is less powerful from their omission. They are cards that are likely to never rotate out of your cube unless you ban them for being too good.
3 - Strong - These are solid cards that get the job done. Their exclusion is probably an indicator that you are actively not supporting a popular deck / archetype / effect.
2 - Playable - These are good cards, but they are either interchangeable (e.g. lots of removal, aggressive red 2-drops) or are build-around cards that need a little support to be good (Favorable Winds).
1 - Niche - These cards aren't usually considered great, but might be included to support some obscure archetypes, specific interactions, or if going deep on a particular type of deck / archetype / effect.
No reason to cube - There isn't a reason to cube these over options. You might find some perfectly 'playable' cards here, but there is little reason to put them into your cube in the first place unless you are intentionally depowering an effect.
Act of Aggression - 1
Description - It can be a 3 mana Blind With Anger for any colour, but 4 life isn't insignificant. Can be a way to give reach to each colour, particularly if you are trying to push green or blue aggro, though instant speed lets it be played in control decks.
Anchors -
Supports -
Cone of Flame - 2
Description - Shower of Coals is the better option, but this is still reasonable removal.
Anchors -
Supports -
Fissure - 1
Description - At 5 mana it isn't powerful removal, but it gets a mention as one of few red spells that outright destroys creatures of any size. You might also consider Aftershock to fill this slot.
Anchors -
Supports -
Goblin Rally - 1
Description - You wouldn't cube it over Hordeling Outburst, but if you are going deep on armies in a can, you might consider this. 4 bodies is great for sacrifice and go wide decks, and Goldnight Commander in particular will be pretty happy to see these goblins chasing after him.
Anchors -
Supports -
Jagged Lightning - 2
Description - Shower of Coals gets the nod, but this is still fine in its own right.
Anchors -
Supports -
I tried Deem Worthy for a bit, but it was just too expensive to justify. It was great in native limited, but I would say a 0 or a 1 for cube.
Blood rites costs 5 more mana to get one more damage over goblin bombardment.
7 more mana for 2.
The card is firewood.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
It's been perfectly playable in AKH/HOU limited, but as in most recent sets, the removal available is so inefficient compared to what we have access to in Peasant cubes that this really isn't that meaningful for the purposes of this thread. Creatures that are strong in retail limited typically have some chance of being good enough for us, mostly because power creep has been giving us more and better creatures, but as R&D seems to be deliberately limiting the quality of removal available below rare, in retail limited we're usually stuck playing removal that you'd never want anywhere near your cube.
Deem Worthy's hardcast mode is quite a bit worse than Fissure, and its cycling mode isn't really better than Zap or Solar Blast. I think we can deem it unworthy, let's give it a 0.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
You have to lose four creatures for that, or so. 3.5ish. Because 3 creatures is a more flexible no-threshold shower of coals, but A) we probably wouldnt cube shower without the upside and B) you still need to make up for lost time (between cast and sacs) with some kind of value.
But that's just making up the cost, not talking about the loss of other resources.
Having to leave up 2 mana all the time, so you can't even get value in response to removal the turn you cast it, is real bad.
5 mana do nothings need less leniency, not more. Centaur glade for example, imo, is barely playable but acceptable because it turns nothing into something. 2 mana lose a guy to shock <<< 4 mana flash 3/3s.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Cleaver Riot and Deem Worthy can go to no reason to cube.
Any comments on Flurry of Horns?
I imagine flurry of horns will often make 2 bodies that dont contest relevant creatures. Swap the p/t and maybe.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
As hasty 5-drops go, I'd sooner run Eron the Relentless, Warchief Giant, or Glarewielder. By turn 5, Riot Devils get brick walled too easily and I can't really think of any particular synergies to make this any better than Goblin Rally, aside from the very fringe Minotaur tribal. I'd say 1 at best, but you'd have to be really trying to go deep on Fires and tokens to have any reason to cube Flurry of Horns.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Me too. 5-mana do-nothings have a high bar to clear, as Leelue points out. My comment was
more in regards to how once, active, the blood rites could be better in some situations at actually grinding valueuseless, and I am sorry.Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)